AUDIOGON's new format - Page 13

Boarder, can you explain the arrangement a little bit better? What about the display organization made it easy? I'll look myself to try to get a feel for what you mean, but the more details the better.

Stockmonkey, totally understand that. The rash of issues played into it a little bit because there were so many small problems to hunt down. They kept wanting to put out a "we fixed the bugs" email/blog post but since it dragged out felt like it wouldn't be very well received when we were comfortable sending it.

We've got one "bunch of small things" release coming this week, assuming everything goes well with testing we should have part 1 of the new conversations system ready for next week. Part 1 will consist of the fully on-site system. Part 2 will add the reply-to-email functionality. There is also an outside chance of zip code functionality being completed next week but it may push to the following depending on the complexity of upgrading the search server.

The problem is when browsing a category, say speakers, if you look at an item and go back to the list, it's reordered. This happens every time you go back and forth so it's impossible to keep track of what you've seen already.

aramisbear, it's a pleasure to have you here! If you browse users in this thread, you'll see I've been one of the most vocal critics. Why; because I was one of AGs biggest supporters previously.

As someone else said...this kind of outreach would have done wonders for the PR fiasco...if it had happened months ago. But as they say, better late than never.

I'm sure there are a TON of questions everyone has on their minds; I guess first and foremost, why not more alpha/beta testing before going public? As I've pointed out...this isn't some quaint, blog; there's money at stake here, and lots of it in some cases.

Traffic is everything...and it can be fleeting. Once someone decides it's in their best interest to put you in their rear-view and move on...sometimes, you never get them back. Your following seems down; and despite what some of the members of your organization are claiming...those of us who are intimately familiar with your site, and the ads published there...believe otherwise.

Time is money...and money is money. When a site takes 3 times as long as it should to navigate, people have almost no incentive to hang in there patiently; they find a faster site. And if there's one sure way to shoot yourself in the foot...it's having the site be down, or application error after application error...when you're in the middle of trying to sell (or buy) a $5,000 amp.

I applaud your effort...and in fairness, yes...the site has been more stable of late. I just hope you and your cohorts can throw enough man-power to get things turned around quickly. It's been months now, not weeks; time to get it together...if it's not too late already.

CD

saeyedoc, can you hop over to the site and give me a use case for what you mean? Like go to a category, click on this listing, go back? Whenever I try it the order is staying the same for me. You can also sort by the column headers manually so that should help to maintain some sense of order as well. If you can reproduce it I'll be happy to look at it for you.

CDLehner thanks! I was actually a pretty vocal critic in office as well when I first got here.

I've laid down a lot of guidelines for how we'll handle migrating other standalone systems in the future as well. Forums, for example, will be transitioned to a centralized database and we'll convert the old site to run on it. Then we'll build the new site to utilize the exact same database which will allow people to try out the new forums as we're building it and when we get to the point that most people prefer the new forum, we'll flip the switch.

Speed and workflow is a bit of an obsession of mine and site speed itself has been one of my primary concerns from the get-go. Once we get some of these critical features out, I'm going to spend a fair amount of time trying to figure out ways to streamline repetitive behaviors as well. In fact, if you find yourself doing the same thing over and over again on the site - tell me and I'll try to find a way to automate it.

I'm happy to get any input from ya'll on suggestions to improve the site or problems that you're having with it. I'll definitely be checking in here on a daily basis though.

I think the biggest thing that Audiogon lost in this whole debacle is trust. Like was said earlier this is not just some blog, this is a site where people are putting thousands of $ on the line. When you are buying an expensive item you need assurance that the community and feedback are going to hold sellers accountable. When clearly fraudulent ads started popping up on the site it took away a lot of that trust. Once the issues are all worked out it is still going to take me a while before I feel confident enough to sell or buy from Audiogon.

I've mentioned this before, and I'll mention it again - charging commission on classified ads is probably the single most misguided step that Audiogon has made and is a complete folly. Aside from being IMHO inappropriate, it is also nearly unworkable in real-world implementation. A sliding scale based on dollar value would be much better, while keeping the commision based fee on auctions in place. With auctions this is an appropriate approach and easily justified based on the service being provided. Garnering fees on the classified ads more or less relies on an "honor system" - an unrealistic expection at best. It seems that a large bit of the focus in the redesign incorporated a lock-down to prevent direct communication and skipping out on fees. This is still easy to get around and the energy spent on policing ads and enforcing fees is very likely draining energy and creating a counterproductive focus on negativity that could be directed elsewhere. You've also created this large sub-culture in Audiogon with a large number of people doing everything they can to avoid fees which does nothing to create a positive relationship with your customer base or strengthen the audio community.

Why is it when I look up a member, there isn't an Item for sale tab/section any more?

I just don't get what's the purpose of removing it, I would think you want more continuous movement which equals more sale, thus more revenue., No?

DJoel

centurymantra, I see what you're saying about the fees on transactions. That's not anything that I really have a say in but it's my understanding that it was like that before as well. If you're selling something in an auction for a certain price and you pay a transaction fee based on the price isn't it pretty much the same thing with a classified at at a fixed price? Am I just misunderstanding what you're saying about the sliding scale approach?

Djoel,

That's coming back very soon. The current issue is that the old site doesn't have a way to talk to the new site very easily and the current member lookup is on the old site (along with feedback, etc) while their listings are on the new site. Shortly after the conversations piece is in place, we'll be adding back member lookup and migrating feedback over fully to the new system. At that point we'll have a member profile section on the new site that will eventually contain their listings, forum activity, feedback, virtual systems, etc.

There will also be some added functionality for partners/dealers with information about their stores rolled in too.

Also, century, there is one other approach to the fees. Partners that pay a flat $250 / month rate avoid transaction fees completely so there's definitely an upper limit to how much those fees can cost you.

My understanding is when stuff was bought on old audiogon the buyer USUALLY reported a lesser sale price so they paid a smaller fees (even though 2% really isnt anything compared to ebay)

The new audiogon apparently isnt having any of that, thats why theyre doing everything in their power to cripple peoples abilities to communicate and "deal" outside of audiogon. The problem is audiogon didnt test crap and everyone had to be the guinea pigs for a website that was acting like a pre-alpha (and probably still is). Really crappy business tactics. Being greedy is one thing, crippling your own website to do it is another.

The only positive thing about the whole situation is the audio blue book has more accurate sale prices (ive never subscribed to it and i dont think i ever will at this point)

Oh yeah and for those wanting to know how screwed audiogons traffic rates are.. simple, just take a look at archive.org

http://web.archive.org/web/201010250...ubw&1&ctg&st51

In 2010 this shows that one 7 day period had 42 sub listings, now that same period results in 28. Not exactly the most rigorous number gathering method but i would say 2010 isnt the greatest sample either, audiogon was probably 10% bigger in late 2011 than it was in 2007. So 42 vs 28 is probably closer than it should be.

Bums me out seeing old audiogon and knowing that this was THE site to go to, now everyone has a bitter taste in their mouth because of greed. How do you screw that up? Audiogon probably had boatloads of people going to it every day just to browse audio equipment. People would kill for the amount of traffic audiogon got, but instead of just placing ads like engadget does, they decided to just "update" the entire site at once without actually having it working. Amazing levels of incompetence really.

Well, there are certainly plenty of annoying bugs left, in particular, relating to trying to list an item for sale.

I decided to go ahead and give the site another try, and while I eventually got everything up and listed, it took quite a bit more effort than expected, and not everything appears as I would expect it to.

a) Pictures do not appear in the order in which they are added to the post (really annoying); b) pictures are not resized as one might expect and certainly are not limited in size as per the outdated FAQ (annoying); c) picture captions are not included, so what is the point of having an area for including them (very annoying); d) I selected the 'buy now or allow offers', but nowhere does the posted listing indicate offers are allowed (serious issue); e) if required to go back and make changes during the listing, various initial checked items are mysteriously unchecked and you will have to go back and redo them (annoying); f) the listing title areas would appear to indicate that the separate parts of the listing titles will be separated properly when listed, but the entire thing is listed as one long run-on title, with no way to go back and change things once it has been listed (very serious issue); g) pictures would sometimes disappear when going to preview, and would need to be added again (very annoying);

Those are just the ones that I can recall, though I know there were at least a couple of others.

I cant seem to get a response from audiogon on this one, lets say radius search does go online next week (DOUBT IT), what was the point of disabling zip code search for 4+ months exactly??

Is it just me or strange that this entire dialogue with "Audiogon" is occurring here on this forum? Does their blog have any of this info/claims?

Radius search is out at Stereolist.com but seems busted, you can search zip on main page though.

I'm still trying to figure out how to use my credit on Audiogon btw.
This is a good sign overall...I guess?

I am officially creeped out by Audiogon. For months there have been numerous ads by people who can't produce in home pictures of the equipment they are advertising...that's weird enough. But now I'm seeing ads where the only form of payment accepted is personal check. Stinks of off-shore scam to me. WTF!!!

Okay, at least one more annoying issue, and possibly a serious one.

I received a question regarding an item for sale, I answered the question, without having it permanently displayed on the ad page. The question still appeared at the top of the ad page when I viewed it afterwards, which is a bit odd, but it also appeared at the bottom of the page, along with the answer I had supplied. The question that still appeared at the top of the page now had a 'Delete' option next to it, which I assumed would just delete that question from that area of the page, as the two versions seemed rather separate and non-connected. So I delete the question at the top of the page, as I am not sure who can view these things (and I have had some crank ones that I did not want left around), and nowhere can I find info on who can and who can't view this stuff. Well, afterwards I find that the question, along with my answer, at the bottom of the page, has also been removed. What the h*ll?!

Now I can't keep track of the types of questions that I have answered, nor know who has asked what, unless I keep a manual record, which I didn't think would be necessary. Additionally, how do I know if the other member has gotten my reply now? I don't even have their member name now to try asking.

Thanks, I notice this feature was recently fix.


Are you guys getting feed back, or giving feed when completing a transaction? I don't seem to be getting any of late, (sound like another symptom of getting just a tad older these days Steak, Sex, Feed Back, all rare ) I have had at least 4 transaction in the last few months, and zip-O.

DJoel

I'm no expert on all things Agon, but I'll try, maybe you were still logged in? That's why you can see the question you answered, also I believe if you go to my page, and click on your current ad there should be all your corresponding displayed. This is from the top of my head but it should still be there, and I'm probably leaving out a step or two.

It's a little frustrating and confusing , so I know what you're going through. I've been a member since 2001, and to get the rug pulled like this is enough to missel out a few boarder line psychotic emails..Well if I was that guy.

Djoel

Unfortunately, if I go to the for sale page, of the item referenced (while logged in), the question that I was asked, and which I answered, does not appear. In fact there is a standard 'tag', at the bottom of the page, which states that I have received no questions about the particular item.

That's great, so now I am assuming that the member who asked me the question did not even get my response, and I also have no way of communicating with them.

Hm, that sucks big time..Yeah I've gone through that where I found my self with no way of communicating with the potential buyer. So the selling page, and by clicking in on that item results to no back and forth with the buyer what so ever

Djoel

Feedback is much harder to leave now. If the seller hasn't completed the buy...which is harder and harder itself...there's no item for you to leave specific feedback against. You can do generic feedback...where you pick a user, brand, model, and tell AG what you paid for it; but I've had some of those go un-returned by the seller...probably because they don't want to get hit with the selling fee.

It's "functional" now; some stuff a tad better, some stuff still much worse. Overall...I don't see where it made any strides. Should have just left it be.

CD

Watch for spelling and grammar mistakes. I have sold ATV's and dirtbikes recently and some of the scam adds I would receive were just a joke.

Another month, still no zip code search, at this point theyre deliberately sabotaging it because they dont want your business. If you have something and its only local then audiogon flat out does not care about you because they probably think youll deal in cash outside of their system. Its plainly obvious at this point.

Already sold my speakers btw, zero thanks to audiogon, it happened by chance from someone searching on craigslist and my listing popped up (was looking for 802D and i happened to compare mine to 802D directly).

This just happen to me, a Zero feedback member was adamantly wanting more info on the media rack( There's more than enough information from the web site, dimension with picture etc) that I'm selling on there asking me to quickly email him with a provided email, which I did not. I just answered him via Agon system. Well I never heard from him again, which lead me to think he wanted my email address, for spam just like they do on Craiglist, I tend to use a separate email address all together to avoid filling my regular email from spam which is all ready difficult to do.

DJoel

I'm so highly disappointed with AGon, that I'm thinking of never using them again, I don't even feel like causal browsing either which I would do for countless hours, and found pleasurable before this debacle

I too sold my B&W 802N on Craiglist and thanks the audio gods two Agon members where legitimately interested, which save me a truck loads of fees. Regrettably I post the center, and my 805 on agon and almost paid $100 in fees what ever they'll be seeing less and less of my cash.

Djoel Aka TAV on AudioGon..

I've also learned that lesson. It's a form question: "am interested in your item above. Please contact me at xxxxx@xxxxx for more details and its present condition". Sometimes it varies; like when they ask for more pictures...and you haven't posted any yet. That's kind of a dead give-away...lol. Now when I get that inquiry from a zero-feedback member, I send a form response back: "since you have no feedback, we'll have to communicate through AG if you're truly interested in the item". I have yet to get a follow-up...lol.

At this point, I can't see that they'll ever get back what the site used to be. Who knows...maybe what little they've lost from us chumps...uh, members; is peanuts compared to the corporate support they have now. I guess it's "functional"; I can't deny I've bought and sold stuff since the switch. It's just not as good as before, IMO...which begs the question, why did they do it?

I know, I know; aramisbear said they had to...the platform was antiquated and such (btw, haven't seen him in a while). But those are decisions that need to be weighed carefully. When you tug at what works...and what people have become accustomed to; more modern or not, you sometimes do more harm than good.

I don't hate the new Audiogon anymore; I'm indifferent to it. It is what it is...and that's a step back from what it was.

CD

I agree 100%

Yeah we can hold are breath until our face true blue, it just a lost cause what's done is done, and too much cash poured into it to turn back.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again I'm sure they change the site to generate more cash. I'm sure some slick hair lawyer type got these guys in a room and tossed in a few ideas, a couple power point and fancy charts with arrow pointing north got every one to clap, the rest was history Hindenburg history

I'm getting older, and I need to be more mindful of how and where my money is going.

Djoel

Just tried to add pics to an existing ad; AG won't allow it! BOOOO!

Seriously, I'm done...and I urge others to join me. Aramisbear, if you're still out there...you should hang your head in shame. Please explain to us, why we're not allowed to add PICTURES to our own ads...that we paid for??

CD

Yeah, that would be odd thing to not have, and be easily accessible. There was a time you couldn't change your price either, I believe we're dealing with a slew of mental midgets here I a few ads on the Agon, once they're done I'm done unless things change for the best, not holding my breath thou....


Djoel

I have also reached a point of indifference towards Audiogon...kinda sad really, but change - both good and bad - is an inevitable thing.

I should note to people reading this thread that I had great luck with posting classified ads at Audio Asylum. They recently revamped and upgraded their system, most likely in response to the Audiogon debacle - and ads are all free. The activity has increased to a large degree. I sold three items quickly, and with minimal fuss. The new ad layout and interface is actually quite nice.

You can find the site here; www.audioasylumtrader.com