AUDIOGON's new format - Page 14

They clearly have issues with their billing system. I'm currently going around and around with their customer service over $20 worth of charges for items I never listed or sold.

If someone leaves feedback to you by mistake, Audiogon will charge you a commission as if you sold it. Then, when you finally notice they are charging you for a transaction you never took part in because they are sending you emails about your past due amount, they will tell you any billing items must be disputed within 30 days and they won't change your "bill". Of course, since you never listed or sold the item in question, you wouldn't know you were getting charged within that 30 period unless you logged in and tried to sell something else and realized you had to put in more money than you should have. Absolutely ludicrous.

omegaslast,

I shouldn't have given a date. Functionally, it's "working" internally, but the interface isn't clear enough about how it works and that was confirmed with some long time users who are testing things for us so we're reworking the search interface itself.

CDLehner,

Pictures are having a bug right now that we're working to get resolved. It's going to involve a short term and a long term fix. To be clear, the photo uploads are only failing some of the time which initially made the problem complicated to diagnose.

Regarding others, the "questions" interface is going to be retired in favor of a simple direct message system. Nobody's been particularly happy with how questions currently works, the replacement just keeps getting delayed because of some rough edges.

I hope ya'll can understand after all of the initial uproar over the current site that we're trying to be extremely cautious with these major new features before putting them out there. The last thing anybody over here wants to do is release a major feature that is confusing or contains major flaws.

It baffles my mind why anybody would use the site anymore. There has been been more than enough time to fix issues. At this point it's well past time to move on.

Aramis, I know you were late to the party...and might be the first to agree; but they should have taken this approach before they took a working and thriving site down to begin with.

Like I said; you have a window...where once you turn people away, you never get a chance to make a winning impression on them again. I'm not sure you guys still have a chance. Hard lesson to learn...but a lesson nonetheless.

CD

I hadn't considered this, but you may be right. I used to check ads around my zip code several times a week. The peace of mind being able to meet sellers face to face was priceless. I wouldn't have considered trying to circumvent the fees, because the service was invaluable. Not the case any longer.

Have you noticed how many listings now are from Europe and Asia? High end items with no pictures??

Remember when you could click on the seller's zip code and the city and state would come up?

2nd this: www.audioasylumtrader.com

OK, time for a fresh rant:

I have an item I need to sell, so I decided to give the "new" Audiogon (though it's hardly new at this point) another chance. So let's see; where to begin?

I know enough to not waste time constructing the ad on Audiogon...lest I run into an application error and lose all my work! So I construct my ad "offline"...get my 6 pictures ready to upload, and set about trying to post an ad.

First of all, I know Audiogon "used" to have this issue...where even though you would load the pictures in one order, they would post in the reverse order you wanted them. Aramis, if you're listening; I don't want to hear this BS about this, that, and the other; this should take exactly 5 minutes to fix! What kind of programmer can't fix their software to load pictures in the right order?

So first it takes the Audiogon software FOREVER to upload my 6 pics. Then, when I do a preview...it's got them in the "right" order...which in this case was wrong, because I loaded them "backwards" anticipating Audiogon would flip them. So then I have to go back and fix the ad.

When you say "change something"...your pictures all appear to still be there; it shows the pic...yet it says "no file loaded". That's just stupid, and again easily corrected. So then I load the pictures in the "right" order this time. Again, Audiogon takes an inordinate amount of time to upload...and then I get an oldie but a goodie; application error! I go back and try again; application error. I try again; application error!

I try again; this time it goes through, but the pics are in the wrong order. I re-load them; application error. I try again; application error. I try again; it goes through. I approve the ad, and what do you think happens? The ad STILL reverses the pics. It gives you a different view when you post, than it did in the preview!

It should be noted: a, I'm in IT myself and have even, in the course of my 44 years, built and hosted my own sites on 2 different occasions. I'm not saying I know the job like aramisbear; but my point is, you'd think I'd be able to post some pics and a damn ad to Audiogon without it taking 30 minutes! B, I've been a member of Audiogon for over 8 years now; and have conducted around 50 transactions or more, with perfect feedback. Point...I know my way around Audiogon. The pictures still don't look the way I want; and, oh yeah...it's not like I'm allowed to edit anything in my OWN f'ing ad! For this...Audiogon expects me to pay them for the "privilege" of placing this ad?

This is just unacceptable; and it really hasn't changed for...how long has it been now...6 months? It's a smoke-screen...to try and keep traffic from running in droves, and losing advertising dollars and sponsorships. I used to root for Audiogon; I really wanted them to turn it around. I'm done; what's next? Audioasylumtrader.com? http://www.audioasylumtrader.com/ca/index.html; great, sign me up.

Please...let's continue to use THIS thread to post alternatives to Audiogon, and curtail their business. That's the only way to pay them back for what they've done to their customers!

CD

EDIT- OK, I stand corrected; it appears...for this week...they are back to letting you edit your own ad again. Thanks for the generosity Audiogon! I still stand by my post. The fact that it's screwed-up to begin with...and that you never know...from week to week...what you can or cannot do...is testament alone, that the site still stinks. Oh...and I'm starting to see 'application error' quite a bit again.

Just became a Audioasylum member, Agon will soon be rearwindowed!


Djoel

I'm going to check that site out. I've run across it a few times browsing for info on amps but never explored it.

http://www.audioasylum.com/index.htm

I finally found a couple of amps I've been looking for on Agon. I emailed the seller who was more than happy to list the two amps on ebay since he had no feedback on Agon - it added an extra level of protection for me. Not only Paypal but the ebay buyer's protection.

I managed to get a pair of Acurus amps - an A200 two channel and an A200x3 three channel amp for $685 - a bargain IMO since the two amps are like new. The seller wanted me to leave feedback on Agon - which I did. Now he's going to get hit not only with ebay & paypal fees - he'll get hit with Agon fees too since I left the feedback he requested me to leave. Ya get what ya pay for.

Power to the people, I remember a few months ago Audiogon send out an email pretty much saying they might not be the only game in town, but they where all that and a bag of chips. I thought it was a bit pretentious of them, left me thinking they think they got us by the cojones! We've been asking, and they have made up their minds on how they're running things over there.

I just hope, more people/members continue posting here and decide to make the change whether it's Sound Offer, Asylum, etc .

Tav/ Djoel

Well...I call it like I see, yet give credit where credit is due. Pretty nice search updates at the site.

CD

I just dumped my membership on A-gon. If I can't get what I want on forums like here and Emo lounge or (gasp!) ebay then I don't need it.

Too bad there's no longer much to search for on there!

I'm going leaving mine open, I'm sure sites like Asylum were you can add your membership from other forums and selling sites like ebay will pop up. After all I have over 700 positive feed back, Agon has to be good for something



Djoel

One step forward...one step back. Just tried to post an ad. Let's see; application error 3 times...saying I failed to pick a sub-category (even though I clearly picked pre-amp/tube EVERY time). When it fails, it kicks out all your pics...so you have to re-load. And then...on check-out; it said my credit card has the wrong CVV, even though I tried it twice and clearly had it right. Forced to use PayPal to check-out.

Try as they might, it's still not 100%. I'm selling off some last few things, and then...I'm not going to AA Trader, or some other site; I'm just done. Thanks Audiogon; you drove me from a part of the hobby.

CD

P.S. And the f-ing pictures are STILL backwards. SERIOUSLY...how hard is this to get right??? Make the pictures display correctly dumb-a**es!!!

Have not been on A'Gon in awhile but I did visit AA Traders and SoundOffers. Not many listings on AAT and SO.

Maybe AG will get it together.

I thought that they were supposed to straighten out the pic issue a bit ago, but you are right it is still a mess. I made the mistake, perhaps, of relisting a couple of items I am trying to sell, and I couldn't believe that they even screw up pics that were on the original ad. I only added a couple of extra pics to those already on the old ad, and when I checked the preview they were all reversed. So, I go to the pain of reversing all the d@mn pics, so that they look right in preview, but when I post the renewed ad all of the d@mn pics are reversed again.

Add that to all of the nonsense troll type responses I have gotten to a few listings on there, plus the absolutely pitiful communications that is set up for the ads, and I really do not plan on coming back, or renewing anything once these ads have expired.

They are so far removed from their prior level of service and legitimacy that they are very hard to begin to take seriously.

Yes, I will still continue to post here whenever I see stupidity with the "new" Audiogon. Are we even still calling it that? It's hardly new. Is anyone still listening? Is anyone still using the site?

At the core of the site...in addition to getting the money right (which they screwed up...except when it came to making sure they get paid)...is the feedback. Well, AFAIC it hasn't been right since "the switch".

I just went through a fresh one, so let's review: first, let's start with the fact that my buyer couldn't initiate the feedback, because he wrote and said he was trying...but it was saying he was putting in the wrong password, even though I'm pretty sure dude must know his own, long-used password. On top of which, he said he's wrote Audiogon several times about it, and has yet to hear back (here we go again)

So I decide to start the feedback, and here's how it goes. There's NO way to do it from your list of sold items. Oh, they know it's been sold when it comes time to collect those fees (which is always listed at the top of your page as a reminder, when you're signed-in); just not when it's time to leave feedback. So...I go to feedback, you have to put in the member name, and the item you sold. How is this secure and/or accurate? Can't I just make sh*t up, have someone on the other end approve it (one and the same person?)...and I could accumulate false, positive feedback to scam people with?

Oh yeah...even though you're signed-in to the "main" Audiogon, you have to sign-in again to the "feedback" section; so it's clear they haven't ported that over to the new platform. Which I can understand...because text is awfully challenging to work with.

Fail, Fail, Fail; and I know indifference is even worse than hatred, but let's not let these guys off the hook quite so easily. We know they're watching...or at least were; maybe even they're over their site at this point...lol. But every once in a while, let's make sure to jab it in their ribs. They should really be embarrassed. Any 8th-grader with a tablet can make a decent website these days; these guys took a decent one and trashed it.

CD

Perhaps...but that's wayyy too passive for me. I'd rather b*tch, and make sure they know I'm pissed.


Well, I think you answered your own question. eBay is fine for old boomboxes...but I don't exactly find it to have the right audience for 4 and 5-figure audio gear.

CD

There is another thing one can do at the moment and that is to sell things on videogon, which still has the same format as the old site.

I can understand your concern to a point, but there are lots of items that I don't think I would be that concerned about buying used, as long as the item was paid/bought through a system that provided a decent amount of buyer protection, and as long as the seller had a decent feedback level, in particular feedback regarding the type of item that was being sold. Buying many things new would just make it too difficult to try items you have had your eye on, but couldn't normally afford. And then there are also the number of classic discontinued items that are still worth 4 figures and more. Plenty of those that are still as good as anything out there.

Now, back to the main point of this thread.

Couple of more very sore points are:

Why in the world can they not include a 'User Control Panel (CP)', or such, at the top of any page that you happen to be on. Just how hard is that?! I really hate having to remember how to figure out how to get to my sale items, or profile whenever I am on there. Pretty much every other forum I belong to has that simple convenience.

And, if someone happens to select the purchase option for an item, but doesn't pay right away, or at all, AudioGon conveniently wipes out your ad, and all communications that you have had with anyone, even the buyer, regarding that ad. So if you had others waiting in line, in case a pending sale goes bad, you now have squat to work with in trying to communicate with those people, unless you had written everything down. Plus, if you had been working out terms for the sale, all of that is now erased as well. What a bunch of incredible morons.

Plus, if the first person doesn't go through with their payment, guess who is already knocking at your door demanding payment on their part. I'll give you three guesses, and the first two don't count., lol.

Oh, and I almost forgot. Respond to someone's offer, with a counter offer, and there is no trace afterwards what so ever of either the offer, or counter offer. At least that has happened to me. If that was the only communications from the person making the offer you now have no way to contact them if you don't get a return acceptance, etc. from them.

There are just so many things wrong with that forum, it's really very sad.

Just got an "offer", on about the last piece of equipment I plan to ever list at AG. Zero-feedback member (natch), with this "address"

bei ji nan road 11（北际南路11号）, nan ning, Guangxi 530000 (United States)

Seriously; Audiogon's claim is that the old format and software was sooo outdated, they needed to uproot the whole thing to "modernize". Fine; doesn't your modernization allow you to sort out obvious fraud such as this?

I know you get crack-pots and scammers on any website; but there was never this kind of overt deceit before. I think Audiogon...in an attempt to attract a new audience...must have hung a "come rip me off" sign somewhere; somewhere International, from the looks/reports of things.

CD

These technical issues are the least of Audiogon's problems.

I was the victim of a fraudster who hijacked some hapless seller's account and Audiogon was anything but helpful. The "seller" had 100+ positive feedback posts and so I felt safe transacting with him. However, it turns out that the seller's account had been hijacked and Audiogon eventually admitted that they did not even require confirmation from the original registered e-mail address for a change of e-mail, which one would have thought was quite basic. To make matters worse, when they discovered the fraud, they did not even bother contacting me as buyer. They simply suspended the seller's account. If not for the fact that I grew suspicious because of a different, identical listing, I would not have found out till much later. In fact, I had to e-mail Audiogon to check what had gone wrong with my transaction because I could not access it suddenly. When I asked them why they did not contact me immediately, they simply said they could not even though both my e-mail and mobile are listed under my account. Finally, to rub salt into the wound, when I tried to share my experience with other Audiogoners, their moderators refused to post my comment on their forums.

In short, not only is the new Audiogon technically deficient, fraud is now rife on Audiogon, and they censor and whitewash their forums in an attempt to prevent their users from finding out. I would warn everyone buying anything from Audiogon to be wary of these fraudsters and Audiogon's completely useless "security" and general negligence. And once buyers go, why should sellers sell on Audiogon?

I have noticed that when I list something now I get a ton of fraudulent inquiries Kinda like Craigslist and all in broken English.

I think that's pretty awful. I'm not sure if this was the case for you, but I notice a lot of that as well; "sellers" listed under accounts that have good feedback...but the last time they sold something was like 3 years ago. To me, that raises a red flag...like it's an "inactive" account, that was ripe to get hijacked.

I think the point is...the "new" Audiogon is rife with this kind of activity, whereas the old one was not. I'm not painting a revisionist history; I'm sure the "old" Audiogon wasn't scam-free. But it was nothing like this.

I've said it before...and in hindsight, I can't even say that the powers that be there, could or should have seen this coming. But why a customer chooses to use your product is a delicate thing. You could be Coke...and decide "you know what...people have drank and loved Coke for tens of years. If we just tweak it the tiniest bit, it won't drive them away". Or you might just change packaging the slightest bit, and people don't even know why...but they just don't like it as much anymore.

The thing about Audiogon...it was easy, and you trusted it. Now...it's different practically every time I go to use it; I never know what to expect...and worse, it's just a pain. Whether it's a pain wondering if I'm getting inquiries about my products for sale; if my inquiries are getting through to sellers. Am I getting scammed? Will I get my money? etc.

Tough lesson to learn, but what's worse is to bury your head in the sand. Censoring the blog is infuriating! It SCREAMS to me "we know we made mistakes...we know you're unhappy, but it's in our best interest that others not know". That speaks to disingenuousness. That tells me, these changes were never for us to begin with; I think it was to help them generate more commercial revenue. I said it before; soon, Audiogon will not exist as we know it. It'll probably not have any private sellers at all; just dealers, who pay a fee to list, etc.

Can't wait until a real contender establishes itself to take their place.

CD

Another peeve:

I have an item on an offer. This is the same guy I posted about above, with the funky address. Now, unlike most scammers I've sniffed out (I've had to become an expert; thanks "new" Audiogon...it's fun), this guy has followed-up from my decline of his offer. Most scammers just fade-away.

OK; I'll entertain an ever-so-slightly open mind...that maybe this guy is just a budding audiophile. So...whether he sends me an offer, or asks a question...the "new" Audiogon has the guy's feedback attached (remember how long it took them just to get that) to the offer or inquiry. This guy's says zero transactions, zero feedback (natch). However, when I run a member search...the guy's not a "zero"; it's much worse...he has one transaction, which he never paid for...so he's a minus-4!

Here's the point; Audiogon's fancy, new, "modernized" platform...the one they had to uproot our old, beloved site for...can't even attach accurate feedback numbers on the inquiries and offers; I guess it doesn't go below "zero". As I said above...these guys have just made every amateur mistake in the book. Then they compound it by saying we, the members, are the ones who were clamoring for it. Huh...funny; I don't remember a thread complaining about Audiogon before. Then they compound the problem even further by denial and deceit.

I'm sure people must read my posts and think "let it go already, man". I just think that's too small a price for them to pay. I want them to feel ridiculed, and I want to encourage others to post about their negative experiences. I know the audiophile community is like 1% of 1% of 1%; so this isn't news outside of our tiny, little circle...but AFAIC, we've had something dear taken away from us, and I don't take it laying down.

CD

No, the account was not dormant. There were no red flags. It was neither an old dormant account nor a newly created one with fake transactions to help create a false sense of security. There were transactions going back 3+ years and had been active. Basically, there is no way to be safe. The new Audiogon gives a whole new meaning to caveat emptor.

I have since tried to "deal" with another seller by insisting on payment through an escrow service. The seller claimed to be a French lawyer who would happily send me a copy of his passport, as if that would somehow reassure me. When I insisted on escrow, he asked for a direct transfer to his bank account. How any half decent lawyer can imagine that a buyer who had the experience of being defrauded would be reassured by a direct transfer is quite beyond me. To say nothing about how suspicious a seller who is so willing to provide private details of "his" passport appears.

Audiogon should really just be renamed Audiogone. Everyone should help spread the word since no mention of fraud will ever actually appear in their forums.