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Oppo-95 or Sony XA5400ES - Page 6

post #151 of 429
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Don't get too excited. The differences are very small, imho.

Kal,

Would you say the differences are small enough for you to NOT replace the Sony 5400 in your system with an Oppo 95, even though in your article you said you preferred the sound of the Oppo?
post #152 of 429
The techs at OPPO decided that I had a bad unit, and shipped me a new one, which I got yesterday; same problem.

These pictures look really excellent when I put the disc in the computer DVD drive, and they also look just as good when I put the disc in my Samsung Blu-Ray player. The picture quality isn't just fair, it is perfect; flawless.

On the BDP-95, they just totally suck; straight lines look like a coarse sawtooth and the definition is just awful. I always had this exact same problem with my old OPPO 970 DVD player, but I just accepted it.

I can't accept it with a $1000 unit though; this has got to have a fix somehow.



Quote:
Originally Posted by WestCoastD View Post

funny, I was experimenting around with jpeg images on my new (living room) Denon AVR-2112CI/Oppo BDP-93 set-up. I streamed a few images via-network drive directly to the Denon AVR and they exhibited a similair characteristic as you explained above. However when I, instead, streamed directly to the Oppo they looked fine? I think it's a formatting issue that the Denon had a problem with, maybe there are settings (on the Denon) that could fix that?

All this Oppo BDP-95 vs. Sony SCD-XA5400ES has got me excited to finish setting-up my theater room so I can hear for myself. I'm still completing room re-modeling tasks.
post #153 of 429
I'm right; you aren't. You can keep saying no until your face turns blue.





Quote:
Originally Posted by diomania View Post

Not when you do A/B (or /C) for sound difference.

No, they won't.

This is simply false.

Radio Shack SPL meter isn't precise enough to be used for this purpose. I thought you would know already.
post #154 of 429
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpedris View Post

Kal,

Would you say the differences are small enough for you to NOT replace the Sony 5400 in your system with an Oppo 95, even though in your article you said you preferred the sound of the Oppo?

For SACD only, no, I would not change. OTOH, the Oppo does so much more and so well.
post #155 of 429
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

For SACD only, no, I would not change. OTOH, the Oppo does so much more and so well.


Thanks, Kal.

I need stereo SACD only (with some RBCD as well). Trying decide which to get. Don't need any video features or multichannel.

How would you advise?
post #156 of 429
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpedris View Post

Thanks, Kal.

I need stereo SACD only (with some RBCD as well). Trying decide which to get. Don't need any video features or multichannel.

How would you advise?

??
post #157 of 429
Quote:
Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

That doesn't make sense. Using a SPL meter and repeatable test tones is an excellent method for matching levels, as any qualified audio engineer will tell you. They have been doing it that way for many years, and everyone except you is satisfied that it does the job very well.

In any case, I am perfectly satisfied that it does the job well, and is an accepted and proven method among those who are highly qualified in the field.

Quote:
Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

I'm right; you aren't. You can keep saying no until your face turns blue.

You need to match levels down to 0.1 db precision to make sure there is no audible volume discrepancies. Radio Shack SPL meter won't allow you to get that precise no matter what you say. Here are some links for you to study:
http://www.radioshack.com/graphics/u...2055_PM_EN.pdf
http://www.audiocheck.net/blindtests_level.php?lvl=0.5
post #158 of 429
^^^

correct... the rat shack meter is worthless for that purpose....

as noted earlier, the correct method is to use a dmm...
post #159 of 429
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

??

Oppo or Sony, IYO, for stereo SACD playback?
post #160 of 429
Quote:
Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

I can't accept it with a $1000 unit though; this has got to have a fix somehow.

I can understand. Why keep it when they can (hopefully) correct it
post #161 of 429
Well, I finally solved the mystery with the photo CDs.

The replacement unit they sent me does the same damn thing...aaaarrrgghhh!

I finally decided that since they couldn't duplicate the problem at their end,
viewing the same files I sent them from the same disc, that it had to be something with my media.

I copied one of my problem discs, which was an old FUJIFILM CD-R, to a new Memorex disc with my computer DVD drives and it works fine on the OPPO now!!!

Apparently the OPPO was reacting to the poor quality of the old FUJI discs by switching itself to a lower resolution.

The computer and my Samsung Blu-ray player were not having that problem, so they looked OK with them.





Quote:
Originally Posted by WestCoastD View Post

I can understand. Why keep it when they can (hopefully) correct it
post #162 of 429
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpedris View Post

Since the release of the 95, I wonder whether there is anyone who has compared the two and preferred the Sony over the 95 (for RBCD and/or SACD performance)

I personally preferred the Sony over the Oppo. In my setup, the Oppo had a different sonic signature than the Sony with the Oppo sounding too warm for my taste.
post #163 of 429
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpedris View Post

Oppo or Sony, IYO, for stereo SACD playback?

Whatever.
post #164 of 429
The differences I am hearing between the BDP-95 and the 5400 are not small!

Things that I was perceiving as "very good" sounding on the Sony are jaw-dropping close to hearing live music on the Oppo.

One recording that has bass notes in the mix with the Sony is now VERY clearly heard as a string bass doubled by a drum with the Oppo; the clarity and impact of the bass is a full order of magnitude better; no comparison. Before, with the Sony, it really wasn't possible to hear what was producing the bass note; it was just a deep sound.

My Ayre C5xe/MP is about halfway in-between; it is better in some respects than the Sony, but the Oppo is clearly way better than both.

My old CD of "Pictures at an Exhibition" by the Chicago Symphony (Reiner) is so lifelike I can close my eyes and be transported to Disney Hall, listening to it live. That recording sounded very good with the other two players, but this is a whole new ballgame.

Note; all of this refers to connecting all units to my LS-26 preamp with balanced cables.





Quote:
Originally Posted by mpedris View Post

Kal,

Would you say the differences are small enough for you to NOT replace the Sony 5400 in your system with an Oppo 95, even though in your article you said you preferred the sound of the Oppo?
post #165 of 429
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Whatever.

What exactly does that mean, Kal?

I was asking you for YOUR OPINION on which of the two is better for stereo SACD playback.
post #166 of 429
Quote:
Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

The differences I am hearing between the BDP-95 and the 5400 are not small!

Things that I was perceiving as "very good" sounding on the Sony are jaw-dropping close to hearing live music on the Oppo.

One recording that has bass notes in the mix with the Sony is now VERY clearly heard as a string bass doubled by a drum with the Oppo; the clarity and impact of the bass is a full order of magnitude better; no comparison. Before, with the Sony, it really wasn't possible to hear what was producing the bass note; it was just a deep sound.

My Ayre C5xe/MP is about halfway in-between; it is better in some respects than the Sony, but the Oppo is clearly way better than both.

My old CD of "Pictures at an Exhibition" by the Chicago Symphony (Reiner) is so lifelike I can close my eyes and be transported to Disney Hall, listening to it live. That recording sounded very good with the other two players, but this is a whole new ballgame.

Note; all of this refers to connecting all units to my LS-26 preamp with balanced cables.


Thanks much for the detailed report, commsysman.

But I am a little concerned by some opinions here that says you may not have matched the levels of the two players closely enough. A higher volume can sometimes be erroneously perceived as "better quality" or "more revealing". I wonder whether it was a level-matching issue that led to a discrepancy between the significant difference you perceived and the "very small" difference Kal perceived between two players.
post #167 of 429
^^^

that would be a VERY wise concern to have...
post #168 of 429
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpedris View Post

What exactly does that mean, Kal?

I was asking you for YOUR OPINION on which of the two is better for stereo SACD playback.

And I was hoping that you would get the point that, aside from what I described in print, there is nothing I can tell you that permits an absolute determination. The differences are small and choosing between them can only be made in relation to ones preferences and system. Sorry.
post #169 of 429
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpedris View Post

I wonder whether it was a level-matching issue that led to a discrepancy between the significant difference you perceived and the "very small" difference Kal perceived between two players.

These are subjective reactions and their quantification is subjective, as well.
post #170 of 429
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

And I was hoping that you would get the point that, aside from what I described in print, there is nothing I can tell you that permits an absolute determination. The differences are small and choosing between them can only be made in relation to ones preferences and system. Sorry.


Ah!

No, I didn't get that point from your previous comments. But thanks for making it explicit now.
post #171 of 429
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpedris View Post

Thanks much for the detailed report, commsysman.

But I am a little concerned by some opinions here that says you may not have matched the levels of the two players closely enough. A higher volume can sometimes be erroneously perceived as "better quality" or "more revealing". I wonder whether it was a level-matching issue that led to a discrepancy between the significant difference you perceived and the "very small" difference Kal perceived between two players.

Even if the levels where matched identically the overall experience with one source over another is based more on the previous experience you had with the prior player , either the experience( prior or post) was lacking in some respects or delivered all you may have expected and more. Based on the original post I'm sure the Sony level matched with the same method as the Oppo and turned up to satisfying levels of playback during the time it was in his gear. I for one can see where he's coming from the 95 is no joke
post #172 of 429
What you are saying is certainly correct, as I am very well aware!

As I said before; I used the test tones on the Stereophile Test CD to set the levels equally, using the Radio Shack SPL meter. I also used a Beckman DVM accurate to 0.3% to double-check that the SPL meter readings were consistently accurate and repeatable. They were.

Since I have 102 levels on my preamp volume control, which allow extremely precise level control, and the readings on the meters were checked for repeatability against the volume control settings, I am confident that the levels were matched quite closely.

In my experience, the kind of volume difference that can change the perception of the music significantly is much greater than any error that would have been possible with the method I used.




Quote:
Originally Posted by mpedris View Post

Thanks much for the detailed report, commsysman.

But I am a little concerned by some opinions here that says you may not have matched the levels of the two players closely enough. A higher volume can sometimes be erroneously perceived as "better quality" or "more revealing". I wonder whether it was a level-matching issue that led to a discrepancy between the significant difference you perceived and the "very small" difference Kal perceived between two players.
post #173 of 429
Here are some benchmarks I've compiled from the Secrets, Audioholics and Paul Miller IIRC. I add the Arcam which I have with the Sony. They are all excellent and very close to each other, and I'd say the minuscule differences are inaudible from the figures alone. The Oppo dips a little more at 20kHz ("warmth"?), the Sony has slightly higher THD+N and lower jitter peak.

So are the sonic differences people hear reflect something else other than these? Or something else? Note the measurements are done using CD so higher res sources might be different?

Model Oppo 95 Sony 5400ES Arcam CD37
S/NR (A-wed) x x 108.3dB
B-A peak (CD) none -100 dB x
IMD (CD) 0.005% 0.005% x
MFR (CD) 20-20kHz -0.18 db@20kHz -0.1 dB @ 20kHz -0.31dB
THD+N @ 1kHz (CD) 0.004% (XLR=RCA) 0.009% 0.0019%
Jitter (CD) 5-10ps (peak 900ps) 10ps (peak 500ps) 160ps
post #174 of 429
Positive Feedback has posted this review of the Sony 5400ES

http://positive-feedback.com/Issue60/modwright.htm


Both the stock version and modwright version are covered.
post #175 of 429
Why is "commsysman" testing being challenged so vigorously. Is it because he preferred the Oppo or the degree to which he preferred Oppo? This is what his ears is telling him regardless of whether you agree with his method of level matching or not. Unless I missed it no one else fully disclosed their testing or calibration method or the tools used yet we seem to give them a pass. I would venture a guess that most who do level matching in general use a SPL meter. I truly believe it is cost prohibitive for most to properly level match, but I could be wrong.

I thought I read some who thoroughly preferred the Sony, but it wasn't met with this much scrutiny.
post #176 of 429
^^^

prior posting history...
post #177 of 429
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpedris View Post

Positive Feedback has posted this review of the Sony 5400ES

http://positive-feedback.com/Issue60/modwright.htm

Nice write up on the Sony! But the price not so small to be considered a giant killer in my book. At any rate the 95 was pronounced as the "Giant Killer" last year by yours truly And that's in its stock form
post #178 of 429
Quote:
Originally Posted by bakerwi View Post

I truly believe it is cost prohibitive for most to properly level match,

Many digital multi-meter are cheaper than Radio Shack SPL meter.

Quote:


but I could be wrong.

That's a good way to perceive something that you are not sure of. Now only if he displays the same humbleness...
post #179 of 429
Quote:
Originally Posted by diomania View Post

Many digital multi-meters are cheaper than a Radio Shack SPL meter.

Even though his usage of a SPL meter may not have been the optimum tool it would have had the same influence on all the transports, hence he may have drawn the same conclusion. SPL meters seem to be the tool of choice for most when level matching or setting levels so I personally found no flaw is his evaluation of all the transports. It seems like his tool of choice is being attacked because some may not like his preference for the Oppo. I wonder what would have happened had he preferred the Sony.

Quote:


That's a good way to perceive something that you are not sure of. Now only if he displays the same humbleness...

I don't see why he would need to show some humbleness.

I've learned so much from the various threads I frequent since I joined the AVS Forum. Unfortunately, I have also learned that many are insecure about their purchases and attack other products and look for affirmation of their purchases.

I presently have an Oppo BDP-95, Sony BDP-S5000ES, Pioneer Elite BDP-05FD and a Yamaha DVD-S1800 in my main setup and briefly owned a Denon DVD-3800BDCI and the mention of an Oppo product bring such visceral from some of the other thread owners, which is comical to me.
post #180 of 429
nah, i'm an oppo fanboy...

that doesn't change any of the previous commentary, and no, a spl meter is not an adequate tool for the "testing" (and i use that term VERY loosely) in question...
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