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Sharp XV-Z30000 3D DLP - Page 42

post #1231 of 1581
Quote:
Originally Posted by kopkiwi View Post

How would this projector be suited for a living room set up?

would only be used at night, no lights, but would be ambient light from windows (thought curtains would be closed)

We have ours in the family room. Same deal. Good, but not total light control.
I believe that having a retro-reflective screen, like a DaLite High Power makes a big difference.
The projector can handle it, but as always, the darker, the better.

We have been watching the US Open from New York. The Z30K excels at live HD sports.

BTW, where did you find one? As far as I can tell, the supply has about dried up.
This thread has sort of done the same...
Zombie, are you still working on 2D tweaks?
post #1232 of 1581
Quote:
Originally Posted by humbland View Post

We have ours in the family room. Same deal. Good, but not total light control.
I believe that having a retro-reflective screen, like a DaLite High Power makes a big difference.
The projector can handle it, but as always, the darker, the better.

We have been watching the US Open from New York. The Z30K excels at live HD sports.

BTW, where did you find one? As far as I can tell, the supply has about dried up.
This thread has sort of done the same...
Zombie, are you still working on 2D tweaks?

I haven't found one and to make it harder I live in NZ.
post #1233 of 1581
Quote:
Originally Posted by kopkiwi View Post

I haven't found one and to make it harder I live in NZ.


It's worth searching for.
I would PM Zombie. He seems to follow the PJ market.
Also, the Z30K does not seem to have universal appeal. If you post in the wanted section, it could be someone will sell...
Or perhaps someone here will know where to get one.
Luck.
post #1234 of 1581
I'm in Australia...paid $1799 via the Woot deal.

This seller is asking $7999.00 eek.gif

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/360473140247?lpid=44&item_id=360473140247


This is more like it....$3339.99

http://www.amazon.com/Sharp-XV-Z30000-Digital-Projector-Multimedia/dp/B007RFCGLM
post #1235 of 1581
I still kick myself for not buying one from Woot!
post #1236 of 1581
I have a few questions.

1. A member here has offered to sell me his Sharp for $1800. Decent price?

2. Color accuracy is important to me. Doesn't have to be perfect but close. Did Sharp ever put out a firmware update or otherwise solve the issue of incomplete grayscale controls?

3. Is there a reliable source for lamps and how much are they?

Thanks for any input!
post #1237 of 1581
Quote:
Originally Posted by Highjinx View Post

I'm in Australia...paid $1799 via the Woot deal.

This seller is asking $7999.00 eek.gif

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/360473140247?lpid=44&item_id=360473140247


This is more like it....$3339.99

http://www.amazon.com/Sharp-XV-Z30000-Digital-Projector-Multimedia/dp/B007RFCGLM

According Art they have been as low as $2k, sometimes well under. Wonder why there is such a massive change in pricing on this projector?
post #1238 of 1581
Quote:
Originally Posted by kopkiwi View Post

Wonder why there is such a massive change in pricing on this projector?

 

It's nothing to do with the projector per se. When some thing is discontinued and the normal channels dry up all that is left is a few vendors who either were way over priced to begin with or are trying to take advantage of its soon to be unavailability. Regarding eBay asking and selling is completely different. His last sell is roughly within 10% of his first.

post #1239 of 1581
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tangled Cable View Post

I have a few questions.

1. A member here has offered to sell me his Sharp for $1800. Decent price?

2. Color accuracy is important to me. Doesn't have to be perfect but close. Did Sharp ever put out a firmware update or otherwise solve the issue of incomplete grayscale controls?

3. Is there a reliable source for lamps and how much are they?

Thanks for any input!


If you don't get the member's Z30K tell them I will take it.
post #1240 of 1581
I put up an ad here asking for local sellers in Portland, Oregon, because I didn't want to deal with shipping or buy sight unseen and the AVS member responded. Not sure this guy wants to ship anywhere but if he does I'll hook you up.
post #1241 of 1581
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tangled Cable View Post

I put up an ad here asking for local sellers in Portland, Oregon, because I didn't want to deal with shipping or buy sight unseen and the AVS member responded. Not sure this guy wants to ship anywhere but if he does I'll hook you up.

That'd be great. Shipping a projector is not too bad a proposition.
post #1242 of 1581
Just sent him your PM info. Hopefully he'll get in touch.
post #1243 of 1581
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tangled Cable View Post

I have a few questions.

2. Color accuracy is important to me. Doesn't have to be perfect but close. Did Sharp ever put out a firmware update or otherwise solve the issue of incomplete grayscale controls?

3. Is there a reliable source for lamps and how much are they?

Thanks for any input!

the grayscale controls actually work well, you can get a near dead on D65 cal from 10-100% IRE. The color space is what's off, but you're going to have to be picky to see the variances.

If you go back a few pages, there's a number of links to buy the lamp, they are ~ $125 depending on which vendor you get it from.

if you get the 30k, definitely buy the Sharp G20 glasses, they are much better than the included glasses.
post #1244 of 1581
The color gamut is a weird thing, when it is off certain directions more than others it can look bad, and at other times it looks fairly normal when it is off in a different direction. Case in point, my Pro8200's gamut is off by default, but it looks fine, and even if you calibrate it and get it perfect there is only a small improvement. Technically the Pro8200 is off by default more than the JVC RS-45, but regardless what the meter says, the RS-45 color looks worse with the default gamut than the Pro8200. Calibrating the RS-45 can make a huge difference whereas you'd think it'd be the other way around.

With the JVC, i was always (and usually still am) fighting a YELLOW bias, regardless of how I calibrate, cannot get it perfect looking like some of the other PJ's I have here. Even when the meter says it's as good as it gets, it still has a slight yellow tint in some scenes, maybe the blue luminance issue, not sure. Point being, trust the eyes after the meter. The meter is only a starting point anyways (at least for me), I rarely leave everything "100% metered" unless I am doing comparisons, then I suppose you have to. I do start from a calibrated image, then I adjust it by eye and don't care what the meter says after that.

I think everything just combines (meter error, screen bias, sat tracking, gamut, gray-scale, etc..) and the numbers alone don't tell the entire story because it just depends what direction things are heading. Some "off-colors" look better than other off-colors so to speak.
post #1245 of 1581
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tangled Cable View Post

Just sent him your PM info. Hopefully he'll get in touch.

He did. Thanks. I have been kicking myself ever since I got off of the bandwagon and missed the Woot deal.

So, it looks like I may be back in this thread soon. I will be putting this unit and my HC5 together for a while to see if I just stay with one or both. Luckily I have two runs of HDMI in my ceiling and a receiver that has two outputs.
post #1246 of 1581
Glad that worked out larrimore. Are you planning to use the Sharp just for 3D? Let us know what you think.
post #1247 of 1581
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tangled Cable View Post

Glad that worked out larrimore. Are you planning to use the Sharp just for 3D? Let us know what you think.

I am planning as of now to use it a lot like Zombie. I will purchase a couple of extra lamps and use it like a TV for my media room and for 3D, I'll use the HC5 strictly for 2D movies only. I have a drop down screen that until last week had a 50" plasma behind it. I sold the plasma for enough to cover half of my investment in the Z30K so I think I will just remove the TV mount, patch up the wall, maybe put a piece of movie art there and use the Sharp as the "TV" Ultimately, if I see the Sharp is getting all of my use and is acceptable to my family on movies, I may sell the HC5 to someone- it really is drop dead gorgeous on movies and I am not one to keep something that is getting used 5 hours a week.

Funny how things have changed over the past few years. I will have almost the same amount tied up in both the Z30K and the HC5 together than I had in the plasma alone, not to mention how expensive the first PJ I had in that setup (Panny AE500) was.
Edited by larrimore - 9/11/13 at 6:27am
post #1248 of 1581
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

....

btw, I am not done with my observations yet on this projector, I have been using it more for 2D and noticed something very unique about the 2nd iris during mixed and low APL scenes. When it's on, there is a dramatic drop in the black floor yet the white peak doesn't drop as would be expected with an iris. The color also shifts, it appears more saturated with it on. It almost seems like an electronic change, not a mechanical one when using the first iris.

It's hard to explain exactly what I am seeing, I am going to try and photograph it for example. Perceived contrast on this model is surprisingly good for a .65 DC3 projector, similar to the Sony HW30 I owned for about a year.


Any further observations, Zombie? I should have mine by Friday.
post #1249 of 1581
Quote:
Originally Posted by larrimore View Post

Any further observations, Zombie? I should have mine by Friday.

First of all, welcome to the club larrimore. Congrats on finding a Z30K.
I'm an interested observer in this two PJ scenario.
We have a high cathedral ceiling mount and the two projector set up is not realistic.
I've been following the announcements for the new Sony PJs, thinkng that the replacement for the HW50 might be the next major upgrade.
However, the combination of the Z30K, with the Darbee and the HP screen, is so good that it will have to a be pretty spectacular bang for the buck to invest in a new projector.
I'm still amazed at how great the Z30K picture is. smile.gif

I have no way to see the HC5 and I'm curious as to just how much better the 2D picture is than the Z30K...
Please keep us posted.
Best
post #1250 of 1581
Quote:
Originally Posted by humbland View Post

First of all, welcome to the club larrimore. Congrats on finding a Z30K.
I'm an interested observer in this two PJ scenario.
We have a high cathedral ceiling mount and the two projector set up is not realistic.
I've been following the announcements for the new Sony PJs, thinkng that the replacement for the HW50 might be the next major upgrade.
However, the combination of the Z30K, with the Darbee and the HP screen, is so good that it will have to a be pretty spectacular bang for the buck to invest in a new projector.
I'm still amazed at how great the Z30K picture is. smile.gif

I have no way to see the HC5 and I'm curious as to just how much better the 2D picture is than the Z30K...
Please keep us posted.
Best

Will do. I think Zombie and others have stated the HC5 uses the panels that Sony used in the HW90 which were world class at the time. Seems that the only difference now is the 3D is better in the HW95 current gen. All I know is it is a terrific projector but I remain a huge fan of DLP with an unfortunate, terrible RBE sensitivity. With the RBE comments you and others have made on this projector, I am eager to see for myself if I can go back to DLP for 2D, which I love.

In fact, there has to be really something to DLP for me as I have one theater I go to all the time because of their DLP projection over the one near me that uses Sony 4K projectors. "It's all about the mirrors." biggrin.gif
post #1251 of 1581
As a current owner of Mitsubishi HC5 and a previous owner of Sharp XV-Z30000 I can give you my perspective. I have owned Z30000 for only several weeks but in that period I fiddled with it enough to know its capabilities and limitations. I wanted a jack-of-all-trades projector but of course my prime concern was 2D image fidelity (contrast, color, gamma, as well as many other unmeasurable things). And 3D gaming was also part of the plan. A couple of things to keep in mind to better understand 'my perspective': I sit close to the screen (5'-6.5' from a 84" screen) and I am used to certain qualities in a display device: high contrast, zero input lag, and always a proper calibrated image compliant with BT.601/BT.709 standards (if you're interested, a name for the display is Sony GDM-FW900, a 24" CRT monitor). Now I'll skip the long part right to conclusions:

- Sharp XV-Z30000 is fine for watching movies and TV in 2D if you're willing to live with dull reds and unnatural greens. Now some of you might not even see the issue but that's why I posted my 'background' in the introduction part. For me the deficiencies in color were evident and it was supported by colorimeter measurements I posted in this topic some time ago;
- For watching 3D movies, on the other hand, this projector is outstanding. It has some of the best black levels for a DLP under $10,000 and very comfortable glasses (Zombie like to point that out often);
- For gaming this projector is a no-go (for me). It has over 70 ms of input lag (and iirc even more in 3D) and it's very noticeable even in less dynamic games. This cools the desire to continue playing, to put it lightly;

So, there you go. I couldn't enjoy 2D movies and I couldn't enjoy games. Not a jack-of-all-trades projector, unfortunately. Neither is Mitsubishi HC5. For 2D it's just grrrrreat after calibration. 3D sucks hard though. I've given up on 3D on this projector. Not only it exhibits some of the worst crosstalk I've seen on any display (as a previous owner of 1st gen 3D plasma) but input lag rises by quite a margin making any 3D game almost unplayable. A day-and-night difference with 2D.

I just hope for a DLP LED projector with HDMI 2.0 and <20 ms input lag. I'd gladly take it as a secondary projector.
Edited by Elix - 9/12/13 at 1:00am
post #1252 of 1581
"- Sharp XV-Z30000 is fine for watching movies and TV in 2D if you're willing to live with dull reds and unnatural greens. Now some of you might not even see the issue but that's why I posted my 'background' in the introduction part. For me the deficiencies in color were evident and it was supported by colorimeter measurements I posted in this topic some time ago;"

It's clear that everyone's priorities are different. (a little projector humor).
I recall this issue being talked about early on. Most of the Z30K reviews comment on the difficulties in getting precise colors. However, that being said, they also comment on how in normal viewing, it's likely to go unnoticed. From the forum feedback, very few seem affected by it in "real world" viewing. Present company excepted...
It's funny how my eyes have adapted to the picture. When we first got the Z30K, I was disappointed in it's native Sharpness (more PJ humor). We were coming from a high end Benq and the native image sharpness was clearly a step back. After tweaking the settings and adding the Darbee, the image is so much improved, that I don't notice the deficiency (if it's still there).
This goes to an interesting point. It seems to me, that when you add a processor like the Darbee, those observations about the OTB image go right out the window...it becomes way more about what you watch and from where you watch it from.

If you are into high speed gaming, then the Z30k is not a good choice.
If you watch a lot of dark scifi, then the JVCs seem like a better fit.

We watch a lot of bright content. For HD sports the Z30K is incredible.
3D is amazing. Watching Wimbledon in 3D was like being at center court.

At the end of the day, the Z30k illustrates how difficult it is in today's PJ market. Timing is so important. If the Z30K is released a year earlier, then I think it's possible that Sharp sells a lot of them at the $5K MSRP. I still marvel how great the image is for $1800 ($2100 with Darbee).

4K is coming...I'm hoping to hold out until Sony steps up with a $4K 4k. smile.gif
post #1253 of 1581
The color gamut on the HC5 isn't exactly perfect R709 either...smile.gif

The oversaturation though is mild and most people won't notice unless directly comparing to a reference calibration. It also tracks well @ 75/50/25 which is a good thing. I did a full 125 pt auto-cal (chromapure + mini 3D) on the HC5 and it definitely looked great when it was done.

If I had both projectors (HC5 and 30k), I would use the Sharp for TV, some movies (animations, comedies,etc) and of course 3D. Then use the HC5 for critical 2D BD movies.

The Sharp lamps are much cheaper than the HC5 lamps, despite the best efforts, the original lamp replacement is simply not available through any source without having to buy the entire housing, etc. It looks like Mitsubishi had Osram make a custom lamp that never made it way into the open market.
post #1254 of 1581
Quote:
Originally Posted by humbland View Post

"- Sharp XV-Z30000 is fine for watching movies and TV in 2D if you're willing to live with dull reds and unnatural greens. Now some of you might not even see the issue but that's why I posted my 'background' in the introduction part. For me the deficiencies in color were evident and it was supported by colorimeter measurements I posted in this topic some time ago;"

It's clear that everyone's priorities are different. (a little projector humor).
I recall this issue being talked about early on. Most of the Z30K reviews comment on the difficulties in getting precise colors. However, that being said, they also comment on how in normal viewing, it's likely to go unnoticed. From the forum feedback, very few seem affected by it in "real world" viewing. Present company excepted...
It's funny how my eyes have adapted to the picture. When we first got the Z30K, I was disappointed in it's native Sharpness (more PJ humor). We were coming from a high end Benq and the native image sharpness was clearly a step back. After tweaking the settings and adding the Darbee, the image is so much improved, that I don't notice the deficiency (if it's still there).
This goes to an interesting point. It seems to me, that when you add a processor like the Darbee, those observations about the OTB image go right out the window...it becomes way more about what you watch and from where you watch it from.

If you are into high speed gaming, then the Z30k is not a good choice.
If you watch a lot of dark scifi, then the JVCs seem like a better fit.

We watch a lot of bright content. For HD sports the Z30K is incredible.
3D is amazing. Watching Wimbledon in 3D was like being at center court.

At the end of the day, the Z30k illustrates how difficult it is in today's PJ market. Timing is so important. If the Z30K is released a year earlier, then I think it's possible that Sharp sells a lot of them at the $5K MSRP. I still marvel how great the image is for $1800 ($2100 with Darbee).

4K is coming...I'm hoping to hold out until Sony steps up with a $4K 4k. smile.gif

Spot on observation. Well, as of tomorrow I will have both projectors. I love a good color calibration but I am not so anal as not to be able to enjoy something with slight flaws. It all depends on which flaws one can live with. Heck, even the best of the best projectors have flaws.
post #1255 of 1581
Humbland and Zombie:



Any input on calibration? I usually do grey scale, but it seems not possible with this unit. I think I will use Stage Mode for all content (like Zombie) since I am only planning to use it, at least initially, for Sports, TV and 3D. Any input would be helpful given the drawbacks with RGB Bias and Gain.
post #1256 of 1581
Hi, can you definitely calibrate the gamma with the built in controls. Simply adjust @ 80 IRE and you will be surprised how well it tracks from 10-100.

My JVC is nowhere near this easy to get linear results, I usually have to dip into the gamma setting for individual color adjustments, especially at 10-20 IRE.
post #1257 of 1581
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

Hi, can you definitely calibrate the gamma with the built in controls. Simply adjust @ 80 IRE and you will be surprised how well it tracks from 10-100.

My JVC is nowhere near this easy to get linear results, I usually have to dip into the gamma setting for individual color adjustments, especially at 10-20 IRE.

Will do, didn't everyone seem to state it has a lot of blue and bringing that down is the only setting most have had to change?

I can't wait. Without RBE, I am a DLP freak.
post #1258 of 1581
On the 2 30K's I calibrated, I only needed to pull down red and green a few clicks for near perfect grayscale.

Do you have a set of the Sharp G20 glasses on the way as well? These are so much better than the glasses they ship with. I just watched the new Star Trek movie and it looked amazing on the 30K. Very sharp, good color in 3D (you can calibrate behind the glasses), and the 3D performance is flawless. No possible crosstalk or flicker.

folks may not generally notice the x-talk or flicker, but it's definitely there to varying degrees on the non-DLP models. The complete lack of x-talk on the 30k just makes the overall PQ that much nicer than a number of other projectors that cost a lot more.

I am considering getting a 2nd one to stack them in 3D mode. It's already bright enough on my 2.8HP, but I would do it anyway just for a crazy 3D setup that will burn your retina's through the glasses. smile.gif

I'm RBE sensitive and the 30K gets a pass here for a DLP, I have to go out of my way to see it in 2D and never see it in 3D.
post #1259 of 1581
Quote:
Originally Posted by larrimore View Post

Humbland and Zombie:



Any input on calibration? I usually do grey scale, but it seems not possible with this unit. I think I will use Stage Mode for all content (like Zombie) since I am only planning to use it, at least initially, for Sports, TV and 3D. Any input would be helpful given the drawbacks with RGB Bias and Gain.

larrimore, I started with Art's settings at PJ review. They looked pretty good. to start with. However, INMO Zombie is "the man" for settings and tweaks.
They worked well for me as a jump off point. Then I "flavored to taste". I made a pretty large change in the sharpness settings. The Darbee and the sharpness interact somehow...in a good way.
Don't be afraid to play around with things. Your eyes are the ones that matter.
At first I used Stage for everything, but now I use it only for 3D. For 2D I use a custom setting.

My $.02:
Get the Darbee asap. The HP screen is a big plus as well.
We treated the windows with dark curtains and painted the walls a deep chocolate color. It all helped to make the image "pop".
Have fun with it and keep us posted.biggrin.gif
post #1260 of 1581
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post


I am considering getting a 2nd one to stack them in 3D mode.

Where I can buy one at a reasonable price and a trusted site?

Thanks.
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