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Sharp XV-Z30000 3D DLP - Page 12

post #331 of 1581
Quote:
Originally Posted by humbland View Post

Do you think it's a worthwhile upgrade?
Do you plan to keep it in the chain?

For $300+ I'll pass. The Z30000 has such a hi-def, sharp, clean, and smooth looking picture that the Darbee didn't do much for it. I'll leave it in the chain but I wouldn't miss the Darbee if taken away.
post #332 of 1581
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willie View Post

Currently I have both the BenQ W1070 and the Sharp 30K in my theater. I have auto-calibrated both with Chromapure and a Lumagen.

What about the black levels of the Sharp, doesn't it at least easily beat the Benq w1070 there?
I mean the Sharp has an IRIS...
post #333 of 1581
From my understanding the BenQ has some sort of EcoSmart technology that modulates the lamp and works similarly to how LED projectors do dimmng as a faux iris. Considering how bright the BenQ is I don't think it could match the iris on the Sharp for black levels.
post #334 of 1581
For anybody interested, Art has the Z30000 as Best in Class

http://www.projectorreviews.com/1080p-projector/winner_sharp_xv-z30000.php

He says that he would be comfortable having it in his own home theater (except for 3D brightness).
He's said in the past that he misses the DLP sharpness. He's a 2.35:1 guy and I'm sure that the lens memory was a key (as well as the price drop)...

Anyway, I'm hoping for a few good years from the Z30000 until there is more 3D available and the high end Sony's are more reasonable.

Help is coming on Friday to set it up. The high ceilings and limited lens shift means logistics in spades.
If the operation is a success, I'll post back with an update.
Thanks to everyone for their feedback .
smile.gif
post #335 of 1581
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

What about the black levels of the Sharp, doesn't it at least easily beat the Benq w1070 there?
I mean the Sharp has an IRIS...

Not much of a noticeable difference; it didn't jump out at me. FWIW, I don't use either DLP for anything other than 3D or surfing the internet, so black levels were not on my radar. As I said, calibrated images are pretty close; someone would be hard pressed to tell the difference in a blind test. If a person was looking for black levels as a cue, maybe. In my viewing area, with the Centerstage screen, not so much.
post #336 of 1581
Somethings off here, you can't get deep blacks out of a 1700lumens projector, gray blacks at best plus the benq is just HD2 no Dark chip 3 unless I'm wrong. Even Art's picture review showed the Sharp has noticably better blacks and ansi contrast. What am I missing here?
post #337 of 1581
Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarman View Post

Somethings off here, you can't get deep blacks out of a 1700lumens projector, gray blacks at best plus the benq is just HD2 no Dark chip 3 unless I'm wrong. Even Art's picture review showed the Sharp has noticably better blacks and ansi contrast. What am I missing here?

The BenQ uses DC3. The amount of lumens does not determine black levels. That is more dependent on native contrast and typically (although neither of these examples explains how the BenQ gets better blacks) a dynamic or manual iris would determine that. The BenQ uses a lamp modulation technique to lower the lumen output to make black levels better. As an example, some of the JVC models offer a very bright mode (although not exactly 1700 lumens) but because of it's wonderful native contrast still achieves some of the best black levels (and contrast) out there.
post #338 of 1581
Bigbenoutlet via Rakuten.com (Buy.com) has it for $1999 today with 10000 super points (~$100)
post #339 of 1581
Quote:
Originally Posted by humbland View Post

For anybody interested, Art has the Z30000 as Best in Class

http://www.projectorreviews.com/1080p-projector/winner_sharp_xv-z30000.php

He says that he would be comfortable having it in his own home theater (except for 3D brightness).
He's said in the past that he misses the DLP sharpness. He's a 2.35:1 guy and I'm sure that the lens memory was a key (as well as the price drop)...

Anyway, I'm hoping for a few good years from the Z30000 until there is more 3D available and the high end Sony's are more reasonable.

Help is coming on Friday to set it up. The high ceilings and limited lens shift means logistics in spades.
If the operation is a success, I'll post back with an update.
Thanks to everyone for their feedback .
smile.gif

It does not surprise me the Sharp XV-Z30000 won Projector Review's 2013 Best-in-Class.

I previously indicated on this forum how I felt the Sharp is an excellent performance-value projector. I briefly owned the Sony HW50 & Epson 5020 and preferred the Sharp because of it's superior motion resolution (dlp advantage) with HDTV 2D sports. I truly cannot fathom how anyone can be happy with the Sony & Epson inferior handling of motion judder with HDTV 2D sports, which is why I returned both of them and got the Sharp. I definately made the right choice getting the Sharp based on my preferred viewing content @ about 75% HDTV 2D sports.

The Sharp 30K is also very good with blu-ray movies and has a nice crisp sharp image, good color, black levels, contrast & very good shadow detail... it's just an overall well-rounded projector worthy of 2013 Best-in-Class.

Where are all the other dlp projectors on this year's Best-in-Class? Particularly the so-called "high-end" machines from Runco & Sim2 with the .95 chip? I guess higher price does not necessarily mean higher performance or where they not subject to the 2013 Best-in-Class review.
post #340 of 1581
Bummer, this item is not in the Citi Price Rewind database to be price protected...oh well...

UPDATE: up to 12 PDT today you can use coupon code SAVE15 for $15 more off.
Edited by tradewinds - 4/5/13 at 11:34am
post #341 of 1581
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlimatime View Post

Where are all the other dlp projectors on this year's Best-in-Class? Particularly the so-called "high-end" machines from Runco & Sim2 with the .95 chip? I guess higher price does not necessarily mean higher performance or where they not subject to the 2013 Best-in-Class review.

Art has a real hard on for the best black levels and contrast and that's evident throughout every review. He spends an inordinate amount of time discussing it. Those are the ones that he typically gives the highest praise. He doesn't review every projector and most of those are the higher end units. Recently though he has seen a couple Sim2 and Runco projectors. He praised the crap out of them. Read the Runco LS-5 review. He loved it. He just can't give up those black levels (which DLPs don't really offer competition compared to LCOS) which is why you'll notice that his yearly winner, the Sony VPL-VW1000ES was his winner this year. putting 4K aside, that projector easily bests the JVCs in terms of contrast and black level thanks to it's awesome DI.
post #342 of 1581
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

The BenQ uses DC3. The amount of lumens does not determine black levels. That is more dependent on native contrast and typically (although neither of these examples explains how the BenQ gets better blacks) a dynamic or manual iris would determine that. The BenQ uses a lamp modulation technique to lower the lumen output to make black levels better. As an example, some of the JVC models offer a very bright mode (although not exactly 1700 lumens) but because of it's wonderful native contrast still achieves some of the best black levels (and contrast) out there.

Ok, I just read here someone got a 0.11 black level, that's a little high. I got 0.03 on my Sharp but it's the Z17000 so that don't count. smile.gif

You really want at least a level around 0.03, 0.04.
post #343 of 1581
there is no comparing different black level measurements, the variances in equipment and environment are too wide to even consider.

The Sharp 30K black floor is decent for DLP but critical viewers would not mistake it for the 5020/HW50, let alone the JVC's. It's the Achilles heel for these under 10K DLP's, especially for those with HP screens where it becomes more obvious.

PR didn't mention anything about the color space, folks should at least be aware of it in a review.
post #344 of 1581
I'm now the proud owner of the Projector Review's 2013 Best-in-Class under $2K street price projector. Now to file taxes and see if I can pay for it biggrin.gif
post #345 of 1581
Not to mention the wide variances of different error margins of light meters at low level black readings. Even the native on/off readings in this forum are often malarkey, but SOMETIMES they give us a general idea. Also, even Pro's get bad readings as noted on some invalid readings on the Mits hc9000 which it turns out that now most would say it is higher than 10,000:1 despite some sub-10k readings.

I still don't particularly gravitate towards DLP POP over my JVC. I've owned lots of DLP's, except for a 0.95" -- trying to get one but Seegs keeps driving up the market conditions smile.gif

I do see a difference in POP occasionally (mostly on TV), but once you get used to the JVC, it looks about the same. The great advantage of DLP is clean 3D, even the motion resolution tests didn't come out like we thought they would (though I guess the Sharp scored higher than some).
post #346 of 1581
My light meter has always matched Greg Rodgers readings at widescreen review and he used a Minolta and I trust his reveiws. But most important one must know how to get the absolute best blacks when looking over pludge. You gotta blink your eye's go up to the screen to find the spot where's there's just a hint of light in the brighter pludge bar. Each click up on the brightness tuning drastically effects CR.

Like in the past on a Optoma H30 I got around a 1900.1 reading while my buddy Krasmusic got like 600.1. I guarantee you he didn't have the brightness tuned down to it's best.
post #347 of 1581
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post


The Sharp 30K black floor is decent for DLP but critical viewers would not mistake it for the 5020/HW50, let alone the JVC's. It's the Achilles heel for these under 10K DLP's, especially for those with HP screens where it becomes more obvious.

.

At this point you are comparing a $2,200 projector to a $4,000 projector.. yes it started out higher but now with the price drop doesn't it really change the comparison players a bit?
post #348 of 1581
Was the BenQ in it's SmartEco mode? That supposedly helps achieve better contrast and black levels.
post #349 of 1581
Quote:
Originally Posted by airscapes View Post

At this point you are comparing a $2,200 projector to a $4,000 projector.. yes it started out higher but now with the price drop doesn't it really change the comparison players a bit?

The 5020 is only ~300 more, the HW50 is ~1k for smart shoppers, the entry JVC is also in this price range. I think it's a fair comparison if the street price delta is less than 1k.
post #350 of 1581
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

Was the BenQ in it's SmartEco mode? That supposedly helps achieve better contrast and black levels.

Yes, BenQ was in Smart-Eco mode.

My viewing environment does not lend itself to easily discerning incremental changes in black levels from one projector to the next. IMO the Sharp does not have a significant advantage over the BenQ with regard to black level. I guess it is time to dig out the Nikon and take some comparison pics.Think people will be surprised.

Based on the projectors I have seen, under 2K Best in Class for the Sharp from Mr. Feierman is probably warranted based on the projectors feature set and 3D capabilities. However, I believe that if someone was dissatisfied with the image of a well dialed in BenQ W1070, they would most likely be dissatisfied with the Sharp as well.

As always, 'ya pays yer money and 'ya takes yer chances. Especially when you buy a projector sight unseen based on the word of someone else.
post #351 of 1581
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willie View Post

Based on the projectors I have seen, under 2K Best in Class for the Sharp from Mr. Feierman is probably warranted based on the projectors feature set and 3D capabilities. However, I believe that if someone was dissatisfied with the image of a well dialed in BenQ W1070, they would most likely be dissatisfied with the Sharp as well.

I'm not certain although indeed these days we're most likely talking subtle differences at best when we talk PQ for projectors within the same class and price range. He did give this the award for not only 3D but for 2D capabilities also. As an example (and I know images on the web taken from someone's camera is not the same as one's native eye on the screen), but looking at these two photos, I definitely prefer the Sharp's:


Benq W1070:





Sharp XV-Z30000:
post #352 of 1581
The sharp photo looks over saturated here. Not sure what others are seeing.
post #353 of 1581
Yah, far too much orange. That's why comparison pics are useless in general, except for fun...
post #354 of 1581
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

Yah, far too much orange. That's why comparison pics are useless in general, except for fun...

Yeah the Caucasians in the photo look like they all have spray on tans! lol tongue.gif
post #355 of 1581
Agree on the color calibration....but that's not what I was focusing on. I was looking more at the vibrance of the image. Those seats are glossy seats and in the BenQ they look matte and dull. I can also make out better detail on his lower face, chin area. Again, we're talking subtle differences as stated before.
post #356 of 1581
That was my first thought, the Benq looked muted, the sharp more open and dimemsional. Better looking for me.
post #357 of 1581
Gotcha, the most interesting thing is how the Sharp vs. Benq picture looks more vibrant while viewing it on my Benq smile.gif
These comments are silly, it reminds me of the old Magnavox commercial where they showed a tropical forest and said IF only your TV could look this good, but you were watching it on your TV!
post #358 of 1581
Let's not be dismissive of people's opinions. Yourself as well as those like Art who has the right level of experience, tooling and capabilities have seen these side by side.In his case he has chosen to give the Sharp the top award and not the Benq. You may have a different conclusion but there is nothing silly about comparing the merits between these two on this given medium of which only secondary media can be used to collaborate instead of using a thousand words.
post #359 of 1581
I'm not dismissing anyone's opinion, I am dismissing comparing screenshots in a forum smile.gif
I haven't seen the Sharp side-by-side (or at all), though Zombie10k has and I trust Zombie's conclusions over ART, and I think most do.

This is a great PJ for what it does, I didn't say Benq was better on PQ, as I've never seen them side-by-side. I am just saying making comments on a forum about comparisons based on screenshots are silly. The Benq is brighter in 3D...
Edited by coderguy - 4/5/13 at 8:56pm
post #360 of 1581
I fail to see how in this digital world we now live in that we can do any better on forums if not by the same digital means. We can trust other's subjective opinions and their instruments and their settings to be close to ours but there are too many factors and variables that would still not make it the same environment you would use the PJ in. Even seeing it in action at some store is hardly ideal to your own setup at home. Ideally it would be better to try each for oneself in their home but asking everyone to do so is also unrealistic. The best most can hope for is to take as many inputs which includes experts subjective opinions and also qualitative digital media into consideration. You'll probably never really know what you're missing unless you compare items side-by-side in your own settings anyway and I think that is what Art has done lately as he explained when finalizing the rating. If I read correctly, both he and Thomas Norton concluded that they would own the Sharp and this is from two people that have seen the gamut of PJs.
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