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Sharp XV-Z30000 3D DLP - Page 28

post #811 of 1582
Quote:
Originally Posted by larrimore View Post

I have seen it several times on Ebay for $1999 Buy it now. Sometimes you wonder if that comes with a full warranty. Best bet will be another Woot type deal in a few weeks.

I don't wanna wait that long!

AVS just got the RS45 B-Stock's in so I'm having to make a difficult decision on which to choose.
post #812 of 1582
Quote:
Originally Posted by biliam1982 View Post

I don't wanna wait that long!

AVS just got the RS45 B-Stock's in so I'm having to make a difficult decision on which to choose.


Here is a demo with full warranty for $1999.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B007RFCGLM/ref=sr_1_1_olp?ie=UTF8&qid=1368104539&sr=8-1&keywords=xv-z30000&condition=used


I was on the fence with you for the JVC and that also sounds like a deal, I just went in a different direction. I would get Zombie and others' who own/have owned the 45 input on that particular deal.
post #813 of 1582
Quote:
Originally Posted by biliam1982 View Post

I don't wanna wait that long!

AVS just got the RS45 B-Stock's in so I'm having to make a difficult decision on which to choose.

Reading "between the lines", I would consider that the Benq W7000 has been discounted really low in recent weeks... The DLP "deals" have been leap frogging each other. It could be that the Sharp Z30K at $1800 ship has sailed...The few hundred dollar difference in price won't matter in the long run. You could email Woot and see if they will help, or some cc come with price matching for a time period. Pick one and don't look back.
There will always be a better "deal" next week. My $.02.
The big picture is that, to me, it's even possible to buy this quality of projector in this price range with a 3 year warranty...Amazing smile.gif
post #814 of 1582
Maybe someone can lend some advise. Just note that I haven't changed anything to try to correct it as I'm not sure which direction I should be going to make changed.

OK, I have an RCA OTA receiver with DVI output that I'm running directly into the Z30K. On my SP-7210 the OTA signals (both 720p and 1080i) are impeccable. On the Z30K, I notice it is more grainy. Is this because the Z30K is 1080p vs the SP-7210 being 720p? Is there something that I should adjust for it to look as clear as the SP-7210 PJ?
post #815 of 1582
Quote:
Originally Posted by biliam1982 View Post

I don't wanna wait that long!

AVS just got the RS45 B-Stock's in so I'm having to make a difficult decision on which to choose.

If seriously interested in lots of 3D, then take the Sharp. Also, if you are a heavy user on (like 500-1000+ hours per year), then take the Sharp due to the lamps.
To confuse you more though, I would add if you are considering the JVC RS-45, you should also consider the Mits hc5.
post #816 of 1582
Quote:
Originally Posted by tradewinds View Post

Maybe someone can lend some advise. Just note that I haven't changed anything to try to correct it as I'm not sure which direction I should be going to make changed.

OK, I have an RCA OTA receiver with DVI output that I'm running directly into the Z30K. On my SP-7210 the OTA signals (both 720p and 1080i) are impeccable. On the Z30K, I notice it is more grainy. Is this because the Z30K is 1080p vs the SP-7210 being 720p? Is there something that I should adjust for it to look as clear as the SP-7210 PJ?

I'm not sure there is enough information there to be of much help.
Did you try another source, like a Blu-ray player with HDMI out directly into the Z30K?
I would try and isolate the problem by taking things out of the chain until it clears up.
FWIW, our DTV feed had HD at 720p for most sports and it looks good (over HDMI).

I know the "upgrade bug" is contagious, but it could be a sign to go with a more modern (read HDMI out ) AVR.
Prices have dropped and it's possible to get really good processing and power for a few hundred bucks...

Let us know how you resolve it. At first glance it does not seem like a Z30K problem (though I may be wrong).
It may be worth posting in another forum, perhaps AVR, for more help.
Good luck.
post #817 of 1582
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

If seriously interested in lots of 3D, then take the Sharp. Also, if you are a heavy user on (like 500-1000+ hours per year), then take the Sharp due to the lamps.
To confuse you more though, I would add if you are considering the JVC RS-45, you should also consider the Mits hc5.

Coder,
What do you mean by take the Sharp due to the lamps?
Is it a reference to the JVC lamp problems or a comment about the cost of the Sharp lamps (or both)?
post #818 of 1582
Reference to JVC lamp issue, didn't know Sharp lamps are still expensive?
I saw some for $300 on the Sharp, but maybe those were knock-offs, I didn't double check.

The Mits hc5 is still a good choice, though with either the Mits or JVC, you won't get very good 3D. I haven't been watching 3D much lately due to the lack of content.
post #819 of 1582
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

Reference to JVC lamp issue, didn't know Sharp lamps are still expensive?
I saw some for $300 on the Sharp, but maybe those were knock-offs, I didn't double check.

The Mits hc5 is still a good choice, though with either the Mits or JVC, you won't get very good 3D. I haven't been watching 3D much lately due to the lack of content.

Zombie said that he was going to post some kind of Sharp lamp info...
The lack of 3D content is a big issue. We watched Prometheus 3D last night. Good effects, OK movie...
Is there a consensus on a good 3D Movie review site? I've been "catch as catch can" following the various posts here, but there must be some consolidated review data somewhere?
Thanks:)
post #820 of 1582
Quote:
Originally Posted by humbland View Post

I'm not sure there is enough information there to be of much help.
Did you try another source, like a Blu-ray player with HDMI out directly into the Z30K?
I would try and isolate the problem by taking things out of the chain until it clears up.
FWIW, our DTV feed had HD at 720p for most sports and it looks good (over HDMI).

I know the "upgrade bug" is contagious, but it could be a sign to go with a more modern (read HDMI out ) AVR.
Prices have dropped and it's possible to get really good processing and power for a few hundred bucks...

Let us know how you resolve it. At first glance it does not seem like a Z30K problem (though I may be wrong).
It may be worth posting in another forum, perhaps AVR, for more help.
Good luck.

Yes, the blu-ray PS3 and other sources are great. There is no AVR in the chain, this is straight from the OTA receiver to the PJ. The OTA looks great on the SP-7210 720p PJ and looks grainy on the Z30K. So the source is not the problem and therefore I need to know what to adjust on the Z30K so it processes the signal the same way (or better if possible) than the SP-7210.
post #821 of 1582
It's because 720p projectors show less noise, are you outputting 720p or 1080p to the projector?
OK, so turn down the sharpness control and if you want to try it, add noise reduction filters (though they can sometimes degrade the image with little benefit, but worth a try). Try fiddling with the resolution output as well on the OTA receiver, because it might have a really crappy scaler and be outputting a non-optimal res (you want it to pass through the signal instead of re-scale before it gets to the PJ if the scaler is bad, which it probably is).

Make sure your contrast and brightness, as well as gamma settings are not too pumped up, this can contribute.

Overall though, your last PJ was probably just better at handling noise, because 720p projectors almost always are. There are fewer pixels so they don't highlight the noise like 1080p projectors do.
On a really horribly bad source, even my old Sanyo z5 can look better than some of the newer projectors, though it looks very poor overall compared to new units on an even halfway useable source.

The cleanest 1080p projector I've ever seen as far as hiding noise was the Mitsubishi hc4000, and also a Runco LS-5, but I think the Mits was king at noise hiding (as strange as that sounds).
post #822 of 1582
Quote:
Originally Posted by tradewinds View Post

Yes, the blu-ray PS3 and other sources are great. There is no AVR in the chain, this is straight from the OTA receiver to the PJ. The OTA looks great on the SP-7210 720p PJ and looks grainy on the Z30K. So the source is not the problem and therefore I need to know what to adjust on the Z30K so it processes the signal the same way (or better if possible) than the SP-7210.

My bad. Clearly I'm in over my head. Perhaps someone else can suggest something.
The only other thing that I can think of to try would be to force 720p output on your blu-ray and see what happens.
If it looks bad, then that would be another data point...
Good luck.
post #823 of 1582
More reviews that one can imagine: http://www.blu-ray.com
post #824 of 1582
Quote:
Originally Posted by humbland View Post

Zombie said that he was going to post some kind of Sharp lamp info...
The lack of 3D content is a big issue. We watched Prometheus 3D last night. Good effects, OK movie...
Is there a consensus on a good 3D Movie review site? I've been "catch as catch can" following the various posts here, but there must be some consolidated review data somewhere?
Thanks:)

There's a few HT magazines and online reviews that specifically cover 3D blurays, I'll have to find the links and post them. Some of the great content like 'Kingdom of the Plants 3D' and 'Art of Flight 3D' is not available in the US for some reason so I import them.

regarding the Sharp lamp, I believe I found the source of the original lamp that is in the Sharp 30K and have a few being sent over from China to evaluate. It would require swapping the lamp out of the factory housing, but the price was amazing for what will amount to 10 minutes of work to swap. I'll post more details on this when they arrive and I have some time to test the lamps.
post #825 of 1582
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

If seriously interested in lots of 3D, then take the Sharp. Also, if you are a heavy user on (like 500-1000+ hours per year), then take the Sharp due to the lamps.
To confuse you more though, I would add if you are considering the JVC RS-45, you should also consider the Mits hc5.

Yes, I just started to read up on the HC5.

Though there isn't too much content for 3D now, there will be a lot more in the future. So it leads me think more for DLP now until JVC, or whomever, can get it it done right. But then again, I don't really know if I'd catch the flaws in The HC5 or RS45's 3D or if it would bother me all that much.

That would also give me time until a solid state light source comes available at reasonable prices. It's not about having to purchase lamps, but I really don't like having the image dim over time and have to adjust for that.

Interested to her what Zombie says about the Sharp's lamp. Good or bad?

And yes, I'd probably be considered a heavy user at closer to a thousand hours a year I'm guessing.

I really like good blacks, which is why I think the Sharp would be OK or even the BenQ if I added a ND filter. That would bring them along the same lines in terms of brightness I think.

Now it boils down to having to get an Oppo to do the scaling in 3D for Anamorphic Lens support, buying an extended warranty and getting some 3D glasses for the BenQ ,which brings them close together in pricing after all is said and done.

I think the tradeoffs after all that would be motorized lens on the Sharp or CFI on the BenQ.

But I haven't completely ruled out the HC5 or RS45 just yet. I have a lot of reading to do today to make that decision.
post #826 of 1582
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

A series of 50, 70 and 80 MS measurements in 'game' mode. Basically the same as the other models in the shoot-out thread. Only Sony HW50 stands out here @ 30ms.

Jason,

Was this with the DI on or off? And which picture mode? Did you go into the advanced menu and make sure the options like "Color Detail", "Film mode", and the like were disabled? I'm just wondering if those processing options would impact the lag that is measured.
post #827 of 1582
Quote:
Originally Posted by tradewinds View Post

On my SP-7210 the OTA signals (both 720p and 1080i) are impeccable. On the Z30K, I notice it is more grainy. Is this because the Z30K is 1080p vs the SP-7210 being 720p? Is there something that I should adjust for it to look as clear as the SP-7210 PJ?

In my opinion the Sharp is just revealing more of the noise that is in the source. OTA signals are horribly over-compressed, and so they are full of mosquito noise and macro blocking. On a 720p device some of these artifacts would be hidden. Plus over the years the supporting chipsets for DLP projectors have gotten a lot more bandwidth and so they can drive the DLP mirrors faster. This helps with color depth and motion resolution, but again, on the downside it ends up hiding less of the issues that are in the source. With the Sharp I'm guessing you are just seeing more of the problems that are in the broadcast.
post #828 of 1582
Quote:
Originally Posted by RenStimpy View Post

Jason,

Was this with the DI on or off? And which picture mode? Did you go into the advanced menu and make sure the options like "Color Detail", "Film mode", and the like were disabled? I'm just wondering if those processing options would impact the lag that is measured.

Hi, the DI was off and I was in gaming mode. It was getting late so I didn't have time to keep testing but i'll go back and verify the advance settings. I was hoping to just change it to gaming mode and see low MS, similar to the Sony HW50.

I'll post back with more info later when I try it again.
post #829 of 1582
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

Hi, the DI was off and I was in gaming mode. It was getting late so I didn't have time to keep testing but i'll go back and verify the advance settings. I was hoping to just change it to gaming mode and see low MS, similar to the Sony HW50.

I'll post back with more info later when I try it again.

I had a chance at lunch to double check and it looks like Game mode already disables all the enhancements by default. So I don't think it will be possible to see a faster time out of the Sharp. Just wanted to give you the heads up so you don't feel a need to rush in testing it again.
post #830 of 1582
Quote:
Originally Posted by RenStimpy View Post

In my opinion the Sharp is just revealing more of the noise that is in the source. OTA signals are horribly over-compressed, and so they are full of mosquito noise and macro blocking. On a 720p device some of these artifacts would be hidden. Plus over the years the supporting chipsets for DLP projectors have gotten a lot more bandwidth and so they can drive the DLP mirrors faster. This helps with color depth and motion resolution, but again, on the downside it ends up hiding less of the issues that are in the source. With the Sharp I'm guessing you are just seeing more of the problems that are in the broadcast.


Well, I thought the 55:1 lossy compression only discarded things the human eye couldn't see. I guess this Sharp is so good it show it.
post #831 of 1582
Quote:
Originally Posted by tradewinds View Post

Well, I thought the 55:1 lossy compression only discarded things the human eye couldn't see. I guess this Sharp is so good it show it.

Given a high enough bit rate and the right encoder, then yes. But for TV broadcasts they use a real-time MPEG2 encoder and it has to produce a stream at a constant bit rate. With those two limitations you will never get a perceptually lossless result at 19 Mb/s. And that ignores the fact that most stations decimate the max bitrate by broadcasting sub-channels as well, leaving the main feed starved for bits.
post #832 of 1582
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

Hi, the DI was off and I was in gaming mode. It was getting late so I didn't have time to keep testing but i'll go back and verify the advance settings. I was hoping to just change it to gaming mode and see low MS, similar to the Sony HW50.
In case people missed my post about Sharp's input lag, here's my test result:




I measured different values between 59-71 ms. That supports Zombie's data. I don't think there's any need for further testing. This projector is hardly suitable for gaming.
post #833 of 1582
Chinks in the armor. I was starting to think the panel projectors were tops with the inorganic long lasting panels, now I find the polarizers are still suspect to failure. The good news about the newer DLPs is the main chink in the armor the colorwheel breakup. Well this problem has been taken care of, my DLP engineer buddy told me the wheels are made very differently now. The panels are not glued in on one side they are clamped in between two metal wheels, problem solved. You should get longevity out of the later DLPS the sharp 3D models have the upgrade.
post #834 of 1582
There are still 2 components that can fail, the drive motor and the DLP panel itself. I recently saw a DLP projector where some of the mirrors started failing, resulting in permanent stuck pixels.

I don't see any valid info that makes me think the 30k will outlast my JVC RS55.
post #835 of 1582
That's true, there are really probably about 20+ components that can fail in any projector (DLP or not), from resistors, electronic pieces, motors, lens parts, mirrors, HDMI boards, processors, power supplies, fans, and on and on.

The thing is though, you can never know for sure if Projector A is going to be more reliable than Projector B, impossible to know. One could be MFR'd more superior, even if it's LCOS vs. DLP.
That said, if both projectors were MFR'd to exact equal specs, the data does suggest DLP would be more reliable as long as the color wheel does not fail. The reason is because they are less susceptible to heat damage and long-term wear. The mirrors can still freeze up or pixels get stuck, but we don't see these things as commonly as we see LCOS panel degradation, LCOS color issues, or other similar.

DLP is more reliable in the sub-$2000 market usually, I mean LCD cannot match DLP on long-term reliability if you average it, and LCOS should follow somewhat similar patterns although not as susceptible to dust (but the higher end PJ's are MFR'd with better parts, so it's hard to say for sure). LCOS still gets potential panel degradation though just like LCD's, LCOS can lose contrast over time and color fidelity. Even if the panels do not degrade, they can still go bad or have other issues.

Point being, if MFR'd quality were up-to-spec in both cases, I'd put the bets on the DLP, but projectors are rarely MFR'd with equal diligence. The problem is in too many cases a PJ could have a cheap power supply that loses wattage over power and then blows a cap or something, or it could have a cheap something else, and this isn't affected by LCOS vs. DLP (it can happen to any of them).

LCD is the least reliable if MFR'd to equal diligence.
Edited by coderguy - 5/10/13 at 11:17am
post #836 of 1582
Here ya go, this is what we all hope never happens to our PJ's...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCPXckfT-6g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=fvwp&v=2M3rzx6jtnk&NR=1
Edited by coderguy - 5/10/13 at 12:21pm
post #837 of 1582
How does the Sharp xv-z30000 compare to the previous Sharp xv-z20000 for sharpness, black level, contrast, color accuracy, and calibrated lumen output? Thanks in advance.
post #838 of 1582
"DLP is more reliable in the sub-$2000 market usually, I mean LCD cannot match DLP on long-term reliability if you average it, and LCOS should follow somewhat similar patterns although not as susceptible to dust (but the higher end PJ's are MFR'd with better parts, so it's hard to say for sure). LCOS still gets potential panel degradation though just like LCD's, LCOS can lose contrast over time and color fidelity. Even if the panels do not degrade, they can still go bad or have other issues."

Good assessment, the wheel was the main problem. I have about four old DLP's with shattered wheels. Two Sharp z2000's, a NEC HT1000 and a Optoma H56 all with the one side glued in technique. The Z3000 I have is fine it has the clamped in version like the z30000, z17000 and the Optoma later models HD8600 HD3300, HD33 etc. It's the engineering mgr at Optoma that told me about the colorwheel change. So figure any DLP after the time line of the Z2000 has this new wheel.

I just won a Epson pro 1080ub that looks great so I'll dump my Sanyo z2000, one thing the Epson has two golf ball sized dust blobs. None on the Z2000 though this one has a blow off your dust blobs feature. I guess I'll have to open up the epson someday to clear it out. Got to admit it's getting better, better al the time. smile.gif

No problems with my z17000 3yr warranty is nice. I'd prefer to have this z30000 with it's high end features. But hey who could pass up the z170000 for a $900 closeout.

And the guy asking about the z30000 image look. Color wise it's very similar to all the sharps , sharp had their thing for color palate and it's a good one. Sorta looks like a good CRT. Solid color, pleasing facel tones.
post #839 of 1582
I don't think PROJECTOR reliability matters much as a purchasing decision anymore, other than the lamp reliability or some PJ-specific issue, as projectors have gotten a lot better. They just don't fail as often as they used to, and this includes all the different types. We are so much more likely to PAY money for lamp failures then to have to pay more for a dead projector, but either/or can still happen.

That said, LCD Polarizers fail way more often than new color wheels, color wheel motors, or frozen pixels. I've rarely seen frozen pixel reports on any $1000+ new DLP's, but it does happen on occasion. If we are talking what is the most reliable in the first 5000 hours, I really don't know, but due to dust blobs, I'd still say DLP probably. If we are talking what is more reliable after 10,000 hours, there is no question it is DLP. The motors they use in DLP projectors are generally reliable motors, they are not like cheap SATA motors in $50 7200rpm drives. Color wheel motors failing is pretty rare. For instance, in all the hc4000's sold (and that was one popular thread), I saw maybe a couple reports of a dead pixel, and probably 3-4 reports of color wheel failures. In the LCD threads, I can't say the projectors are UNRELIABLE, just would say NOT as reliable. I saw literally hundreds of problem reports in the LCD threads, and that does not even include convergence issues.

That said dead pixels seem much more common on the cheapest DLP's - sub $1000.

To quote specific statistics, the color wheels are generally rated at 25,000+ hours, and these ratings are not like MTBF on hard drives (which are confusing ratings due to how they come up with them), but these are actually fairly valid ratings.
Edited by coderguy - 5/10/13 at 7:50pm
post #840 of 1582
Folks are still buying this model for $600 more than the woot deal.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Sharp-XV-Z30000-DLP-Home-Theater-3D-Projector-with-2-FREE-3D-Glasses-HDMI-/360473140247?pt=US_Video_Projectors&hash=item53eddf9c17

10 sold @ $2399

My OEM lamps should be here early next week. I'm going to swap one into the factory housing to measure lumen output and color range.
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