Official Panasonic 2012 Lineup and Information Thread [No Price Talk] - Page 36

Anyone know about the 3D performance of the three models. I believe Cnet mentioned that the ST50 had some minor 3D crosstalk. Are the GT and VT comparable in this reguard?

Yes, the VT's are ISF capable. You have to hire a calibrator to unlock the modes.

" * This function is exclusively for installer use. It is not intended for use by ordinary consumers."

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The poster says they already did get the ST50, that they went to get theST30 but clicked on the link for the "newer model" saw the same price and got it instead figuring it would be better. So they are saying the ST50 is dim.

I think this has been asked before, but i never got back to see the answer and i dont remember what thread and forum it was asked in...

Anyway. So if i buy my own calibration equipment, as i had planned to do since no good calibrators come through iowa, will i be able to unlock the ISFccc modes?

No, he clearly said UT50 not ST50. The UT and ST are different panels

I don't think there is clear information indicating that they are different panels. The UT50 clearly lacks the infinite black filter, and the ST50 may have somewhat different drive characteristics, but light output should be very similar, although there are no reviews out to verify this. At least one poster has pictures up of the UT50 next to a ST30 in store-light conditions and the UT50 is significantly brighter, supporting the possibility that the UT50 shares the same panel redesign as the rest of the lineup.

What mode are you in?

The only problem with your recommendation is there is no ST50 in a 42" size. He would need to step up to at least the 50" size TV in order to get a ST50

Are you sure about that? I could definitely be wrong but I thought when I read last year (helping my inlaws get a set) that the UT line and the ST line were significantly different in the way they produced the picture? You could be onto something with the different drive technology though.

No I'm not sure about it, because Panasonic's spec sheets are marketing materials aimed to upsell the more expensive sets.

I don't think the Panasonic UT50 uses a different panel than the ST50 for the reasons outlined below:

The G15 NeoPlasma panel is stated as employed in the high and mid end products (ST50 up). The greatest expense associated with the development of a plasma panel is probably the design and manufacture of the phosphors & cell cavities (along with the correct power delivery characteristics, which should be determined by the tolerances of the phosphor and the geometry/materials used in the cell). These are also the aspects that dictate the major performance characteristics. Therefore any significant changes to the G15 NeoPlasma panel design would require a redesign of these components, or recycling of older panels. Panasonic has stated that the UT50 employs the same faster phosphors used by the ST50 and above, and these panels have been demonstrated as having significantly higher brightness than the ST30's at the same brightness settings, suggesting that both the phosphors and cells have been conserved across the lineup, and that the UT50 is not re-using 2011 panels.

Replicating the same features (phosphors and cells structure) across two separate panel designs would seem an unnecessary waste of resources, since the additional cost provides no differentiation benefits across these features, and takes away production capacity from the models your advertising focuses on. Special designs for low-end models usually do not happen without the use of modular production, by including units in the high-performance part that are disabled in the low-end models, allowing one to use scrapped high-end parts to increasing manufacturing efficiency. Semiconductor companies often use this production model. This requires modular components, which plasma panels do not have, unless you're talking about some characteristics of the power delivery system, software, and any additions (like light filters, AG coatings) employed.

Therefore I doubt the upstream features affect major performance aspects in a dramatic way (brightness, phosphor decay, basal excitement level), as these components seem to set by the characteristics of the phosphors, and the design of the cells holding them. It is likely therefore that the upgrades afforded to higher end models would be those that can be added on top of the foundation created by the G15 panel shared across the U50/ST50/GT50/VT50, like black filters, additional cpus, and software features.

Of course Panasonic could take a 2012 model and just arbitrarily impose some performance limitations to help sell the higher end models. I doubt they would cripple contrast much, given the competitive pressure around the ~1100USD price point. They certainly wouldn't degrade motion handling or brightness, so unless Panasonic decided to artificially restrict black levels beyond last year's ST30/S30 (~.008-.02 fl, doubtful because the price point directly intersects the ST30), there isn't much reason to be concerned with the performance of the UT50.

edit: Lastly, it seems probable that black level improvements afforded by tweaks to the G15 panel will come at some expense, since contrast performance should be a characteristic limited by the cell/phosphor design, which if true would make the decrease of pre-discharge emittence zero-sum with some other aspect of emittence. It's possible that something like the VT50 really does have lower minimum light output, but if it does I wonder if peak brightness or phosphor response times are affected. These may be non-issues, but I would be curious to see how the VT50 achieves lower black levels in a dark environment (if it does at all).

A VT50 vs ST50 question.

While I'm not in theory a fan of Apps on a TV, I was wondering if Panasonic will make the touchpad remote of the VT50 available separately (and if it would work on an ST50).

Also, is there a thread with a comparison of compatible 3D glasses? Be nice to know who makes the best quality/priced ones.

I'm not planning on doing much if any 3D, but I'm considering getting a single pair of glasses to play with and see how I like the technology.

I've been wondering how different the viewing experience might be between the ST50 and the UT50. It seems to me that it is possible that the only difference might be very similar to comparing the GT30 and the VT30, FBr not considered, since the UT's filter is very much like that of the GT30 and it's been said that the ST50 is similar to the VT30.

I'd be surprised if it's substantial. Still, the "U" series has traditionally been last-years tech so it's hard to say. No one seems to want to post anything about the UT50 and reviewers seem to be avoiding it as a big-box-store special. The S30 I ended up with got the same treatment last year despite several respected reviewers pointing out that it was essentially a feature stripped ST with 9/10s of the PQ.

I wish they still made an S panel... An S50 which, like last year, would be an ST50 quality picture and chassis with all the extraneous nonsense omitted. Some people want apps and 3d and all that crap but I just want a monitor.

Stealth edit: Some attenuation of reflected light on the UT50 is visible, but reflections are not blue shifted, suggesting no AR. I'm puzzled as to why Panasonic would want to forego the AR coating on these sets; they must really need to differentiate between this and the ST50.

What it does not have is that infinite black filter; the visible portion of the panel is a dark grey in daylight.

What?

That's what I heard and that's what I thought I saw at BB. However, the panel was situated above my head. It didn't look like a mirror from that position either. Our BB isn't overly bright though.

I think he meant "DSE", in which case, he means:

"Dirty Screen Effect: for the loss".

I find BB overly dim in the way they present their displays.

Actually I think I'm wrong. There is definitely some attenuation, but it isn't blue shifted. So either no AR coating and the panel is absorbing the rest of the light, or there is some AR coating, but cheap. It is certainly a pretty reflective panel, does not look to be tolerant of direct light sources.

Apple will destroy the all-in-one PC market later this year if the rumored anti-reflective iMac revision comes to market.

Please no follow-on comments since I do not want this to be a thread hijacking.

@ Jason Bourne, great then delete your post. Doesnt belong here anyway.

I think it is important to note there is a UT50 (1080p 42" thru 60") AND a U50 (1080p 50" only) series. The U50 is priced like the 42UT50 and seems to be a bare bones model (no 3D even), so there is a lower model. I wonder if anyone is going to check that one out, I know some people were looking for a no frills set.

The UT50 is 3D capable and the low end models from 2011 were not. If it is an updated 2011 model (I doubt it), it would make sense that it is an ST30 or above which would still make it worth looking into.

Comparing the ST and GT models on the Panasonic website the only significant differences I noted are that the GT has the following specs lacking on the ST:

- 24,576 Equivalent steps of gradation
- 1080p Pure Direct
- Pure Image Creation
- THX 3D Certified Display

The question then is how much these "extra" features have on PQ. Experts please feel free to chime in. Thanks.

From those bullet points, you'd think that would make a big difference, but the "expert" is saying that it'll be the same as the ST- I do wish the first two on that list made a difference, though

You forgot the dual core processor in the GT vs ST.