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Official Panasonic 2012 Lineup and Information Thread [No Price Talk] - Page 47

post #1381 of 1640
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorM View Post

I was shocked to see Cnet's review of the UT50 panel.

They actually gave it 4 out of 5 stars and said it is pretty much identical to the ST50... as long as you turn the lights out while watching it.
Samsung's top plasma only got 3-1/2 stars.
I don't think I'd want to sacrifice the upgraded sound, the ability to watch in a brighter room and the extra HDMI ports, and I'm sure a bunch more features.
Just surprising though.


The UT50 may well be the Bargain Panel of the year (and probably is - but not all of the 2012 sets have been reviewed yet), and CNet certainly gave it a glowing review.

However, do not think that one can safely "compare" the desirability of two TVs simply on the basis of how many "Stars" CNet gives it.

MEMORY tells me that they used to provide a Category Breakdown - something along the lines of Performance; Design; & Features: each of these received its own rating, and the Overall Rating was an aggregate of these sub-ratings (presumably not factored in equally...).

Thus two TVs could end up with the same OVERALL Rating - and yet one might offer better PERFORMANCE, whereas the other could lag in PQ, but "win" in Design & Features.

Cnet has now added a "VALUE" component to their Overall Rating - and factoring "Value" into the equation certainly has to help the UT50 as compared to many other 2012 panels, including the ST50.


Therefore, just because CNet ends up assigning "4 Stars" to a number of TVs, it does NOT mean that those TVs are Completely Equal and thus Interchangeable.

Please note that this analysis could apply to ANY HDTVs that Cnet reviews: the UT50 and ST50 are simply Examples.

Certainly, if I owned a UT50 (or was considering buying one) - I would take GREAT PRIDE (or ENCOURAGEMENT) in the CNet review.

At the same time, ST50 owners (or potential buyers) can take comfort in the following quote from CNet's UT50 review:
Quote:


...we recommend that videophiles pay for the ST50 and use our calibration settings -- it's worth the difference in price.




Sounds like two Excellent Choices, based upon individual preferences, viewing environment, and budget...
post #1382 of 1640
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dierkdr View Post

The UT50 may well be the Bargain Panel of the year (and probably is - but not all of the 2012 sets have been reviewed yet), and CNet certainly gave it a glowing review.

However, do not think that one can safely "compare" the desirability of two TVs simply on the basis of how many "Stars" CNet gives it.

MEMORY tells me that they used to provide a Category Breakdown - something along the lines of Performance; Design; & Features: each of these received its own rating, and the Overall Rating was an aggregate of these sub-ratings (presumably not factored in equally...).

Thus two TVs could end up with the same OVERALL Rating - and yet one might offer better PERFORMANCE, whereas the other could lag in PQ, but "win" in Design & Features.

Cnet has now added a "VALUE" component to their Overall Rating - and factoring "Value" into the equation certainly has to help the UT50 as compared to many other 2012 panels, including the ST50.


Therefore, just because CNet ends up assigning "4 Stars" to a number of TVs, it does NOT mean that those TVs are Completely Equal and thus Interchangeable.

Please note that this analysis could apply to ANY HDTVs that Cnet reviews: the UT50 and ST50 are simply Examples.

Certainly, if I owned a UT50 (or was considering buying one) - I would take GREAT PRIDE (or ENCOURAGEMENT) in the CNet review.

At the same time, ST50 owners (or potential buyers) can take comfort in the following quote from CNet's UT50 review:



Sounds like two Excellent Choices, based upon individual preferences, viewing environment, and budget...

^^^^ Excellent post ^^^^
post #1383 of 1640
Here is cnet rating based on picture quality - http://reviews.cnet.com/2733-6485_7-...opProds;seeAll
post #1384 of 1640
Quote:
Originally Posted by curiousdude View Post

Here is cnet rating based on picture quality - http://reviews.cnet.com/2733-6485_7-...opProds;seeAll

So a UT50 smokes a 929? I find that hard to believe. One could assume the GT50 and VT50 will be in the top 5 once they are reviewed.
post #1385 of 1640
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

So a UT50 smokes a 929? I find that hard to believe. One could assume the GT50 and VT50 will be in the top 5 once they are reviewed.

The UT50 probably doesn't "smoke" the 929 - rather suspect that all of the sets listed would look VG to Excellent to MOST viewers. But the Sony is also not without its flaws:

Quote:


The extremely expensive XBR-HX929 shows some blooming artifacts, and its picture deteriorates more noticeably than usual when seen from off-angle...... When displaying 3D, the image flickers when dejudder is turned off, and it deteriorates rapidly when you tilt your head.

Basically it becomes a game of Pick Your Poison, and CNet has generally preferred Plasma over LCD (and/or found Plasma's FLAWS to be less Objectionable than those of LCD panels...).

And, of course, as an owner of 3 Panasonic plasmas, I completely agree with their point-of-view!
post #1386 of 1640
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

^^^^ Excellent post ^^^^


Thank-you!
post #1387 of 1640
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dierkdr View Post

The UT50 probably doesn't "smoke" the 929 - rather suspect that all of the sets listed would look VG to Excellent to MOST viewers. But the Sony is also not without its flaws:



Basically it becomes a game of Pick Your Poison, and CNet has generally preferred Plasma over LCD (and/or found Plasma's FLAWS to be less Objectionable than those of LCD panels...).

And, of course, as an owner of 3 Panasonic plasmas, I completely agree with their point-of-view!

Agreed no set is without flaws and it is really pick your poison for sure I'm a panny plasma guy also btw
post #1388 of 1640
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dierkdr View Post

The UT50 probably doesn't "smoke" the 929 - rather suspect that all of the sets listed would look VG to Excellent to MOST viewers. But the Sony is also not without its flaws:



Basically it becomes a game of Pick Your Poison, and CNet has generally preferred Plasma over LCD (and/or found Plasma's FLAWS to be less Objectionable than those of LCD panels...).

And, of course, as an owner of 3 Panasonic plasmas, I completely agree with their point-of-view!

CNET doesn't talk about how poorly the Sony does with SD and a below average feed...
post #1389 of 1640
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95 View Post

CNET doesn't talk about how poorly the Sony does with SD and a below average feed...

I don't mean to be harsh here, but are people really buying TVs for how well they handle SD? That seems so backwards at this point. I don't buy a car for its dirt-road performance, do you?
post #1390 of 1640
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

I don't mean to be harsh here, but are people really buying TVs for how well they handle SD? That seems so backwards at this point. I don't buy a car for its dirt-road performance, do you?

They call it ARD (All Resolution Drive) and sometimes SD'ing

- Rich
post #1391 of 1640
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

I don't mean to be harsh here, but are people really buying TVs for how well they handle SD? That seems so backwards at this point. I don't buy a car for its dirt-road performance, do you?

No but it's a consideration and subpar feeds abound in the real world on every provider on called HD channels. Unless you're just watching movies on DVD or BD I'd steer clear of the 929. I owned one briefly and couldn't do it so I returned it...

If you own a 929 and you like it then great, it's a good set and BD looked pretty solid. But it in no way stood out from my Pioneer and on most material it was handling the content poorly in comparison. So bad that my wife was making comments before I was and she doesn't usually give a flying **** about PQ
post #1392 of 1640
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

I don't mean to be harsh here, but are people really buying TVs for how well they handle SD? That seems so backwards at this point. I don't buy a car for its dirt-road performance, do you?

I would if I still lived in Alabama or Alaska.
post #1393 of 1640
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

I don't mean to be harsh here, but are people really buying TVs for how well they handle SD? That seems so backwards at this point.....

Probably not very many owners who frequent THIS board - or similar ones, for that matter.

All the same, we still know a number of people who own "HDTVs" and yet lack a SINGLE "HD" source.

Also, anyone with a large collection of SD DVDs - and a limited budget - probably cares how BOTH their TV AND their DVD Player handle "upconverted" programming.

We fall somewhat into that latter category, although with the "fallback" of a 1366x768p 50" Pan plasma that handles SD DVDs Very Well....
post #1394 of 1640
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

They call it ARD (All Resolution Drive) and sometimes SD'ing

Friends don't let friends SD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95 View Post

No but it's a consideration and subpar feeds abound in the real world on every provider on called HD channels. Unless you're just watching movies on DVD or BD I'd steer clear of the 929. I owned one briefly and couldn't do it so I returned it...

OK, I agree subpar feeds are out there in the sense that they aren't especially rich in detail. But on DirecTV, there is no channel that in my opinion is anything near awful. I don't own a 929 and obviously haven't lived with one, so I can't say what it looks like on middling HD feeds. I'd say if your feeds are in any way pixelated or macroblocked, however, you need a new provider -- not a new TV.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheshechic View Post

I would if I still lived in Alabama or Alaska.

Fair point. And I'm a fan of nearly all states in the U.S. that don't begin with the letter K and end with the letter S.
[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dierkdr View Post

Probably not very many owners who frequent THIS board - or similar ones, for that matter.

All the same, we still know a number of people who own "HDTVs" and yet lack a SINGLE "HD" source.

Also, anyone with a large collection of SD DVDs - and a limited budget - probably cares how BOTH their TV AND their DVD Player handle "upconverted" programming.

We fall somewhat into that latter category, although with the "fallback" of a 1366x768p 50" Pan plasma that handles SD DVDs Very Well....

So, this is the part I don't get. Are there really TVs that can't handle DVDs well? I mean let's leave aside the people without HD. They aren't our problem because they obviously don't care about picture quality. If they did, they'd have HD.

But, yes, many people that do still own a bunch of DVDs. Now, of course, those DVDs should be leaving an upconverting player at 1920 x 1080 for a modern set so, again, I'm confused that this is a real problem.

I guess I just don't buy the notion that poor handling of SD on a current TV is important. I don't believe it's really relevant enough to care about and if someone is needing a tiebreaker on two otherwise equal sets, fine... use that. But to move one choice over another? SD performance is something you just shouldn't be worrying about. Everything else matters more.
post #1395 of 1640
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

I guess I just don't buy the notion that poor handling of SD on a current TV is important. I don't believe it's really relevant enough to care about and if someone is needing a tiebreaker on two otherwise equal sets, fine... use that. But to move one choice over another? SD performance is something you just shouldn't be worrying about. Everything else matters more.

Our OPPO BD player does a fine job of converting SD DVD sources to 1080p. I understand that Panasonic's 2012 players do too. Our Comcast box outputs 1080i, but we almost never watch a SD channel.

Our calibrated Kuro display deinterlaces input from the Comcast STB. That's it. Otherwise it accurately displays all the source material as presented. There are many outstanding DVD transfers that are so good I forget that there is less detail in the original 480i material on the disk.

The channels we don't watch, like the entire SD range, are seriously lacking in detail and contrast. Comcast's HD offerings vary widely in quality but all of them are watchable if you ignore the content.

In observing friends behavior, they almost always assume that any thing bad they see on a TV is the TV's fault. There is no hope. We are all lost.
post #1396 of 1640
Hiya.

My Panasonic TX-P42G10 got scratched up a few days ago (in an unfortunate cat meets dog, dog loves cat and wants to cuddle, cat tries to escape by jumping through my TV scenario).

Now, I'm getting some insurance money out of this and plan to buy a new Panny, because I was happy with what I had. I have whittled my choices down to either the TX-P42ST50 or the TX-P50G30 with extensive research. Both cost 999 in the cheapest local store I can find. I realize that there shouldn't be a 42" ST50 available, but multiple stores claim to carry one in stock (Panasonic TX-P42ST50Y).

I sit currently at about 6 ft 4 inches from my TV, and have occasionally wondered how much a bigger TV would add to my enjoyment, even if I have been mostly happy with my set. However, when we move in around 2 years time to a house from our flat, I reckon the 50" might feel small for the new living room anyway.

I don't care about 3D at all.
I do care about motion performance, color accuracy and black level.
I have a PS3 and a 360, and watch mostly Blu-rays and HD-programming.

Which set should I go for?
post #1397 of 1640
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95 View Post

No but it's a consideration and subpar feeds abound in the real world on every provider on called HD channels. Unless you're just watching movies on DVD or BD I'd steer clear of the 929. I owned one briefly and couldn't do it so I returned it...

If you own a 929 and you like it then great, it's a good set and BD looked pretty solid. But it in no way stood out from my Pioneer and on most material it was handling the content poorly in comparison. So bad that my wife was making comments before I was and she doesn't usually give a flying **** about PQ

I don't want to take up space replying to this, but you had me rolling with the "So bad that my wife was making comments before I was and she doesn't usually give a flying **** about" comment. I am in the same boat, in my TV testing and Previewing I use her as a base level barometer on image quality.
post #1398 of 1640
Quote:
Originally Posted by roigen View Post

Hiya.

My Panasonic TX-P42G10 got scratched up a few days ago (in an unfortunate cat meets dog, dog loves cat and wants to cuddle, cat tries to escape by jumping through my TV scenario).

Now, I'm getting some insurance money out of this and plan to buy a new Panny, because I was happy with what I had. I have whittled my choices down to either the TX-P42ST50 or the TX-P50G30 with extensive research. Both cost 999€ in the cheapest local store I can find. I realize that there shouldn't be a 42" ST50 available, but multiple stores claim to carry one in stock (Panasonic TX-P42ST50Y).

I sit currently at about 6 ft 4 inches from my TV, and have occasionally wondered how much a bigger TV would add to my enjoyment, even if I have been mostly happy with my set. However, when we move in around 2 years time to a house from our flat, I reckon the 50" might feel small for the new living room anyway.

I don't care about 3D at all.
I do care about motion performance, color accuracy and black level.
I have a PS3 and a 360, and watch mostly Blu-rays and HD-programming.

Which set should I go for?

Most people I have talked to recommend getting the largest TV your space will allow. Someone, somewhere on these forums said "TVs are like T-shirts, the longer you wear them the smaller they become" This is absolutely true.

Years ago I picked up a 42inch lcd from a 34inch Sony HDCRT and thought the jump was massive. I then moved to a 46inch plasma and again, thought the jump was too much. I, like you, recently had the misfortune of breaking my 11 month old p60st30 and ordered a p55st50 to replace it.

The 55 seemed small to me so it is getting swapped out with a 60inch st50 tomorrow. You really do get use to the larger picture size and when you downsize you realize just how use to it you got. I sit about 10 feet away and 60inch is about the sweet spot for me. Other opinions may vary.

I am a little bias at this point but the ST50 is a stellar set. you can read my previous post as to why I say that. So if it were me I would pick up the ST50 (in fact, I did!). I am a big time ps3 and xbox gamer and the ST50 handles both perfectly with no noticeable input lag. It also seems to handle IR better than the other panny sets I have had in the past. Good luck on your hunt.
post #1399 of 1640
Quote:
Originally Posted by roigen View Post

Hiya.

My Panasonic TX-P42G10 got scratched up a few days ago (in an unfortunate cat meets dog, dog loves cat and wants to cuddle, cat tries to escape by jumping through my TV scenario).

Now, I'm getting some insurance money out of this and plan to buy a new Panny, because I was happy with what I had. I have whittled my choices down to either the TX-P42ST50 or the TX-P50G30 with extensive research. Both cost 999 in the cheapest local store I can find. I realize that there shouldn't be a 42" ST50 available, but multiple stores claim to carry one in stock (Panasonic TX-P42ST50Y).

I sit currently at about 6 ft 4 inches from my TV, and have occasionally wondered how much a bigger TV would add to my enjoyment, even if I have been mostly happy with my set. However, when we move in around 2 years time to a house from our flat, I reckon the 50" might feel small for the new living room anyway.

I don't care about 3D at all.
I do care about motion performance, color accuracy and black level.
I have a PS3 and a 360, and watch mostly Blu-rays and HD-programming.

Which set should I go for?

I'm not sure what you mean by extensive research, did you read the threads on those models too? I skipped buying a tv last year because they had serious issues and I'm so glad that I did. IMO, buy the ST50 from Amazon.
post #1400 of 1640
Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

Our OPPO BD player does a fine job of converting SD DVD sources to 1080p. I understand that Panasonic's 2012 players do too. Our Comcast box outputs 1080i, but we almost never watch a SD channel.

Our calibrated Kuro display deinterlaces input from the Comcast STB. That's it. Otherwise it accurately displays all the source material as presented. There are many outstanding DVD transfers that are so good I forget that there is less detail in the original 480i material on the disk.

The channels we don't watch, like the entire SD range, are seriously lacking in detail and contrast. Comcast's HD offerings vary widely in quality but all of them are watchable if you ignore the content.

In observing friends behavior, they almost always assume that any thing bad they see on a TV is the TV's fault. There is no hope. We are all lost.

This pretty much confirms what I believe/know.

Including your unfortunate conclusion in the final paragraph. Ah well, the universe is supposedly ending soon anyway.
post #1401 of 1640
Thanks. I'm very much leaning towards the ST50, and have been thinking all day that if I manage to not buy any movies or games and don't eat out for the next two or three months, I can afford the 50ST50. It'll be worth it, and the summer and the European championships in football should carry me over the hump of no new media purchases.
post #1402 of 1640
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheshechic View Post

I'm not sure what you mean by extensive research, did you read the threads on those models too? I skipped buying a tv last year because they had serious issues and I'm so glad that I did. IMO, buy the ST50 from Amazon.

Apparently, some of the issues (green blobs, etc.) didn't affect the G30, just the 3D models.
Have decide though that I'm going to buy the ST50, maybe even save up some money for a few months and then go with the 50ST50. It'll be worth it. Oh, and I live in Finland, so Amazon probably won't ship here.
post #1403 of 1640
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheshechic View Post

I would if I still lived in Alabama or Alaska.

At least you didn't say Arkansas. We're moving up in the world!
post #1404 of 1640
While I agree HD performance comes first, superior SD performance IS of concern for some of us. As a bit of an audiophile who probably spent 10 times as much on his audio over his video, I greatly enjoy recording and watching music videos I copy off Comcast and burn to DVD-R, which of course is SD. So, until I am able to do the same in HD I will have to consider SD performance as part of the equation. Fortunately, Panasonic plasmas have usually led the pack in SD performance.
post #1405 of 1640
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsmith901 View Post

While I agree HD performance comes first, superior SD performance IS of concern for some of us. As a bit of an audiophile who probably spent 10 times as much on his audio over his video, I greatly enjoy recording and watching music videos I copy off Comcast and burn to DVD-R, which of course is SD. So, until I am able to do the same in HD I will have to consider SD performance as part of the equation. Fortunately, Panasonic plasmas have usually led the pack in SD performance.

So, dsmith, of course you should enjoy the content you like. I would never want to suggest otherwise.

But that said, even your example makes me think:

1) The audio is key here, not the video.
2) Would you have picked one TV over the audio because of SD performance? You might have used it as a tiebreaker (like I suggested above) but not to switch from the otherwise superior set to the inferior one.

Anyway, rock on.
post #1406 of 1640
Hopefully this question isn't too far off topic.
I'm planning on connecting an old PC turned DVR/media player to this via a DVI to HDMI cable.

Will 1080i content be deinterlaced to 1080p by these Pannys or must the PC send it progressive content?
post #1407 of 1640
Hopefully this will last for a bit. Newegg has a deal on a 60GT50 that is just too good to not know about, so I'm sticking this note in. It's been going on for a few days and I don't know how long it will last. I put it in the Great Deals Found Thread, but given it's probable short remaining time, I put it here too.

And no, not a marketing or spam post. I have no affiliation with Newegg, just a desire to let the folks who are shopping know about a great deal.

Ray
post #1408 of 1640
yes, everything these sets except will be deinterlaced to 1080p. That is all it can display. As long as it is an excepted resolution. my g10 does not except 1024x768 via hdmi, something I learned the hard way, but most common resolutions should work.
post #1409 of 1640
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray**W View Post

Hopefully this will last for a bit. Newegg has a deal on a 60GT50 that is just too good to not know about, so I'm sticking this note in. It's been going on for a few days and I don't know how long it will last. I put it in the Great Deals Found Thread, but given it's probable short remaining time, I put it here too.

And no, not a marketing or spam post. I have no affiliation with Newegg, just a desire to let the folks who are shopping know about a great deal.

Ray

Awesome deal, Amazon price matched it. Yay!
post #1410 of 1640
Okay so I read this entire forum and haven't found anything on st50 vs gt50 except few people saying it extra features dual core and has twice as many shades of graduation. Is this worth the price difference. what about picture quality?

Sorry for all these questions just about to buy a TV on memorial day weekend replacing my 42 g25 that broke.
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