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Official Panasonic 2012 Lineup and Information Thread [No Price Talk] - Page 50

post #1471 of 1640
I think the main point is that a calibrated ST50 is better than an uncalibrated GT50 even in THX mode, and therefore the extra cost going to buy a GT50 might as well be used to pay for the calibration, at least according to D-Nice. If both are calibrated they will look identical from a PQ standpoint. If PQ is your only concern then get the ST50 with calibration. If you want features and prefer the GT50 style but don't want to spend money on calibration then you can get the GT50, but know that the PQ will not equal a calibrated ST50. Each individual can decide what is important to them and spend their money as they wish knowing the above information.
post #1472 of 1640
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Yes and by a significant amount.

That is correct.

THX mode will shift over time just as a calibration will so the whole permanent comment does not make sense.

D-NICE so what is a calibrated GT50 against an ST50? Same difference? I'm trying to understand something here. There are 3 THX modes on the GT50. If you calibrate an ST50 how do you use the calibration for different types of viewing? For example, day and night and 3D? I thought a calibration was just one setting used for everything? No? And when you say the THX mode will shift over time, how long are you talking about? I'm not arguing PQ, I never have. I know the differences (at least on paper) between the two sets and the GT50 offers what myself and some others need over the ST50.
post #1473 of 1640
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcdo View Post

I think the main point is that a calibrated ST50 is better than an uncalibrated GT50 even in THX mode, and therefore the extra cost going to buy a GT50 might as well be used to pay for the calibration, at least according to D-Nice. If both are calibrated they will look identical from a PQ standpoint. If PQ is your only concern then get the ST50 with calibration. If you want features and prefer the GT50 style but don't want to spend money on calibration then you can get the GT50, but know that the PQ will not equal a calibrated ST50. Each individual can decide what is important to them and spend their money as they wish knowing the above information.

That still doesn't do anything for the argument on getting the 65ST50 over the 60GT50 as the ST50 costs more. You could save the $400 and get a 60GT50 calibrated.
post #1474 of 1640
Quote:
Originally Posted by djPerfectTrip View Post

That still doesn't do anything for the argument on getting the 65ST50 over the 60GT50 as the ST50 costs more. You could save the $400 and get a 60GT50 calibrated.

Sure or you can get a 60ST50 calibrated. Size being equal my statement holds true. Size being unequal then you have to weigh size as an individual preference which includes multiple factors such as the sources you are watching and your seating distance.
post #1475 of 1640
Quote:
Originally Posted by HLdan View Post


D-NICE so what is a calibrated GT50 against an ST50?

Didn't I answer this in my last post???

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There are 3 THX modes on the GT50.

There are two not three.

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If you calibrate an ST50 how do you use the calibration for different types of viewing?

Calibrate two different modes.

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For example, day and night and 3D?

You really need to review the Video modes the ST50 has. Nothing is stopping anyone from creating 2D day and night modes and one 3D mode.

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I thought a calibration was just one setting used for everything? No?

No.

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And when you say the THX mode will shift over time, how long are you talking about?

The same amount of time it would take calibrated modes to drift a couple of thousand of hours.

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I'm not arguing PQ, I never have. I know the differences (at least on paper) between the two sets and the GT50 offers what myself and some others need over the ST50.

I think you have been brain washing into thinking THX labeled video modes are somehow superior to non THX modes. They are not.
post #1476 of 1640
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Didn't I answer this in my last post???

There are two not three.

THX cinema, THX Bright Room and THX for 3D are three modes, at least to my understanding.

Look, I don't consider myself "brainwashed", I'm just trying to understand today's TV technology. Sure, Panasonic could very well be using a lot of marketing BS, but let's be fair, I don't know you from another forum member so I can either take your word for it or Panasonic's. Be fair on calling someone brainwashed.
post #1477 of 1640
Quote:
Originally Posted by HLdan View Post


Actually you didn't.

Actually, I did...

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So are you saying that D-NICE calibrated both models and saw zero difference?

That is correct.


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I specifically asked you if there was a difference between a calibrated ST50 and a calibrated GT50? Please re-read.

You need to reread the above.

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THX cinema, THX Bright Room and THX for 3D are three modes.

Ok.

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Look, I don't consider myself "brainwashed", I'm just trying to understand TV today's TV technology. Sure, Panasonic could very well be using a lot of marketing BS, but let's be fair, I don't know you from another forum member so I can either take your word for it or Panasonic's. Be fair on calling someone brainwashed.

You are too sensitive. You don't have to take my word for it. You are more than welcome to purchase a GT50 with THX modes that are green and register a dEuv of 4 and higher on the grayscale and color measurements that are visually no different than what you can get in the Cinema and Custom video modes. Its your money. My apologies for providing you data regarding the two displays you have been discussing.
post #1478 of 1640
Quote:
Originally Posted by djPerfectTrip View Post

That still doesn't do anything for the argument on getting the 65ST50 over the 60GT50 as the ST50 costs more. You could save the $400 and get a 60GT50 calibrated.

It is not even an apples to orange comparison; you are comparing a watermelon to a pumpkin in your math Compare same size and then we can talk

HLdan- not sure what you want to conclude. Basically you can choose GT50 over ST50 for feature/looks and better out of the box mode. It is your money and preference. For those whose prime consideration is only PQ- then ST50 is a better bet and cheaper too. Nothing more to it.

-K
post #1479 of 1640
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Actually, I did...

That is correct.

You need to reread the above.

Ok.

You are too sensitive. You don't have to take my word for it. You are more than welcome to purchase a GT50 with THX modes that are green and register a dEuv of 4 and higher on the grayscale and color measurements that are visually no different than what you can get in the Cinema and Custom video modes. Its your money. My apologies for providing you data regarding the two displays you have been discussing.

Thanks D-NICE, but I think you responded a bit too early. If you notice I removed the part of my post that said that you didn't mention the calibrated results of both TV's, so my apologies.

Listen, I appreciate the fact that this forum has pro-calibrators on it that can offer the type of info people need here but one thing you have to keep in mind, you know this stuff, the rest of us don't and people can only rely on what they read or hear. It doesn't make someone brainwashed if they believe the manufacturer's marketing as law. A smart consumer has to absorb everything from all sides of the coin. I'm completely new to the HDTV world so you have to understand that not everyone is quite as TV literate as you such as you mentioning a dEuv? I don't even know what means.
Again thank you for your information, any amount is appreciated. You have to understand that people can get confused when the entry level model gets high marks against the mid level and top of the line.
post #1480 of 1640
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kishore View Post

HLdan- not sure what you want to conclude. Basically you can choose GT50 over ST50 for feature/looks and better out of the box mode. It is your money and preference. For those whose prime consideration is only PQ- then ST50 is a better bet and cheaper too. Nothing more to it.

-K

It's really not that much cheaper anymore. I'm actually not looking for any conclusion. I was just responding to earlier post from members who were interested in the GT50 over the ST50. Unfortunately I got caught in the middle.
post #1481 of 1640
Quote:
Originally Posted by HLdan View Post


Thanks D-NICE, but I think you responded a bit too early. If you notice I removed the part of my post that said that you didn't mention the calibrated results of both TV's, so my apologies.

Listen, I appreciate the fact that this forum has pro-calibrators on it that can offer the type of info people need here but one thing you have to keep in mind, you know this stuff, the rest of us don't and people can only rely on what they read or hear. It doesn't make someone brainwashed if they believe the manufacturer's marketing as law. A smart consumer has to absorb everything from all sides of the coin. I'm completely new to the HDTV world so you have to understand that not everyone is quite as TV literate as you such as you mentioning a dEuv? I don't even know what means.
Again thank you for your information, any amount is appreciated. You have to understand that people can get confused when the entry level model gets high marks against the mid level and top of the line.

My apologies, I didn't know you were green when comes to HDTV. Sooner or later you are going to realize that manufacturers are not your friend and their claims are almost always misleading.
dEuv is basically an error rating equation. Idealy, you want that number to be a low as possible and in general 3 or below is where you want to be after a calibration.
post #1482 of 1640
Quote:
Originally Posted by HLdan View Post

Okay, so what you're saying is a calibrated ST50 is better than an UNcalibrated GT50's THX modes? I haven't seen, nor do I know where D-NICE's information in regards to the calibration results are for the ST50 and GT50. So are you saying that D-NICE calibrated both models and saw zero difference? Or are you saying that he only calibrated the ST50 and found it equal to the GT50 uncalibrated? I'm just asking so you don't think I'm taking your words out of context. . Also, you do realize that calibration isn't permanent and the THX modes are?

Since you don't believe what I say anyway, D-Nice has already answered this.

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Also most of the time I don't see many post of people saying, "Could someone tell me the difference between the ST50 and the GT50 as far as PQ ONLY?" Most of the time question is "What's the difference between the ST50 and the GT50 or is it worth it to get the GT50?"

I didn't say anyone asked that question specifically, but why does it matter? I give my recommendation then give my reasoning for it and tell them the reasons to get a GT50 afterwards.

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Usually the answers come from the ST50 owners and they only answer the question in regards to PQ. People do come here asking questions about the TV's for more than just about PQ. And as far as going to the Panasonic website to get all the specs, get over yourself. If people only did that a forum wouldn't necessarily be needed. Other than asking people's opinions on how well their TV is working the website can tell us everything according to you.

That may seem that way, because you're so defensive of the GT50. And FWIW, technically I'm not an ST50 owner (yet).

Again, I don't leave anything out. I say that if the extra features appeal to them, then go for the GT50. The specs/features are listed on almost any site that lists the TVs and you can even directly compare them on the Panasonic website. By features, I mean inputs, the dual core processor etc. What AVSForum is good for is to help people understand the actual differences between models performance wise, and that's exactly what I do.

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I never mentioned anything about "ST50 chest beaters" so don't quote me and put that your post. Quote the correct person please because your tone towards me is already way below friendly.

Umm, I didn't quote you... clearly I quoted the person who made that comment.
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Prices are coming down quite a bit for the GT50 so it's even more of a better buy for people that no only want PQ but connectivity features and styling as well. Afterall, what's the point of paying for a smart TV if you can't get the best out of it? And before you reply back saying that some of the features are forced upon us, well yes they are but why spend money and get half-assed features when you can spend a bit more and get a lot better.

I can't imagine anyone saying they would prefer to have limited connectivity.

If you consider the ST50 half-assed as far as features, then to each their own.

Quote:


At least I can talk to you in a fair tone, you're talking about other people being defensive, sir you're very defensive. I was trying to speak up for people who like the GT50, you're trying to speak against them.

My previous post wasn't even close to being in an aggressive manner... I don't know how you got that.

When have I EVER been defensive about the ST50 when someone recommends the GT50? If I ever was even remotely defensive, it was because false information was given. The only reason I'm being defensive right now is because you're singling me out and taking my posts out of context. All I have done is give my opinion and you're always the one who comes to the defense of the GT50. If you want to make your argument for the GT50, go for it... I'm not stopping you.

I think part of the reason you're being so defensive towards me, is that you only believe what pro calibrators or the manufacturers say (and I understand that). It's quite obvious that you're a little more kind to D-Nice when he says some of the things I have already said. You have flat out told me that I don't know what I'm talking about before. What you have to understand is, many people on these boards calibrate themselves or at least understand how to read calibration reports and what all the numbers mean. I have done a lot of research on the 2012 Panasonic plasmas as I plan on purchasing one myself. I'm not someone to go around spreading false information to backup my opinion.
post #1483 of 1640
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kishore View Post

It is not even an apples to orange comparison; you are comparing a watermelon to a pumpkin in your math Compare same size and then we can talk

-K

I might be getting two threads mixed up...there was a discussion somewhere about buying the bigger ST versus the smaller GT...
post #1484 of 1640
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

THX mode will shift over time just as a calibration will so the whole permanent comment does not make sense.

While I was never actually considering a GT model, it never really crossed my mind that the THX modes will be come less accurate as the panels age. Sort of makes the mode pretty useless.

I will say one advantage is really the THX 3D mode since I've yet to see recommended calibrations for 3D (although they're probably out there).
And of course the extra HDMI port.

Still if I was going to step up from the ST I would save my pennies and go VT.
post #1485 of 1640
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorM View Post

While I was never actually considering a GT model, it never really crossed my mind that the THX modes will be come less accurate as the panels age. Sort of makes the mode pretty useless.

Likewise with getting the TV calibrated. What's the point of paying for a 'perfect' picture when it's just going to shift over time?
post #1486 of 1640
Quote:
Originally Posted by djPerfectTrip View Post

Likewise with getting the TV calibrated. What's the point of paying for a 'perfect' picture when it's just going to shift over time?

Depending on the TV, it takes at least 2 years or more to actually drift enough to be noticeable.

THX mode is definitely convenient for those that don't calibrate or don't plan on having it calibrated and just want to enjoy it out of the box, so I wouldn't necessarily call it useless.
post #1487 of 1640
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorM View Post

While I was never actually considering a GT model, it never really crossed my mind that the THX modes will be come less accurate as the panels age. Sort of makes the mode pretty useless.

I will say one advantage is really the THX 3D mode since I've yet to see recommended calibrations for 3D (although they're probably out there).
And of course the extra HDMI port.

Still if I was going to step up from the ST I would save my pennies and go VT.

I'm waiting for the perfect calibration package for one low price.

"Up to 3 calibrations over 5 years or 50,000 hours, whichever comes first, for up to 4 separate HDMI ports, 2 modes per port... destination and taxes not included."
post #1488 of 1640
Hi all. D-Nice, I have a few quick questions for you. Before you get snappy at me, please note that this thread has 50 pages now and starts in early January (a time when very little was really known about how these TVs would turn out in real life).

I just came back from purchasing the VT50 at BestBuy (for pick-up on Friday). I did a lot of research before going there, and do realize that the differences between the 3 models are very small. However, when I got there, the first thing I saw on the VT50 floor model was a LOT of judder. I asked for the remote and starting making adjustments (e.g., from vivid to thx, 1080p direct, all digital gimmicks set to off, sharpness down to 10, etc). Judder mostly disappeared (except for very fast panning scenes, where what I saw I don't think qualifies as actual judder). After doing all of this, I asked the salesman what he though were the big differences between the 3 models (I had done the research, but wanted to see what they had to say). His answer was that if I didn't like the judder, I should probably get the VT50. His rationale was that even though both the GT50 and ST50 have much better motion engines than anything else in the market, including the PN-E8000, the VT50 is better due to the 96Hz playback of 24p source content.

Now, my main concern in buying a TV is PQ over real life content.

So my questions are:
1) Are these models (all 3 of them) better than the flagship Samsung plasma in terms of PQ (e.g., black level, motion, etc)?
2) What difference does '96Hz playback of 24p source content' make over 48Hz given that both frequencies are multiples of 24? Is there a real difference?
3) Would you buy the VT over the ST (it's already clear that the GT is out of the question from the most recent posts) if money wasn't a problem?

Would be extremely grateful for your help (with the understanding that some or all of these questions are probably already answered in the earlier 50 pages... the answers might actually be a good refresh to the thread...)

Thanks!

Spiffx
post #1489 of 1640
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpiffX View Post

Hi all. D-Nice, I have a few quick questions for you. Before you get snappy at me, please note that this thread has 50 pages now and starts in early January (a time when very little was really known about how these TVs would turn out in real life).

I just came back from purchasing the VT50 at BestBuy (for pick-up on Friday). I did a lot of research before going there, and do realize that the differences between the 3 models are very small. However, when I got there, the first thing I saw on the VT50 floor model was a LOT of judder. I asked for the remote and starting making adjustments (e.g., from vivid to thx, 1080p direct, all digital gimmicks set to off, sharpness down to 10, etc). Judder mostly disappeared (except for very fast panning scenes, where what I saw I don't think qualifies as actual judder). After doing all of this, I asked the salesman what he though were the big differences between the 3 models (I had done the research, but wanted to see what they had to say). His answer was that if I didn't like the judder, I should probably get the VT50. His rationale was that even though both the GT50 and ST50 have much better motion engines than anything else in the market, including the PN-E8000, the VT50 is better due to the 96Hz playback of 24p source content.

Now, my main concern in buying a TV is PQ over real life content.

So my questions are:
1) Are these models (all 3 of them) better than the flagship Samsung plasma in terms of PQ (e.g., black level, motion, etc)?
2) What difference does '96Hz playback of 24p source content' make over 48Hz given that both frequencies are multiples of 24? Is there a real difference?
3) Would you buy the VT over the ST (it's already clear that the GT is out of the question from the most recent posts) if money wasn't a problem?

Would be extremely grateful for your help (with the understanding that some or all of these questions are probably already answered in the earlier 50 pages... the answers might actually be a good refresh to the thread...)

Thanks!

Spiffx

You know there is a "Search This Thread" function at the top of the page, right?
post #1490 of 1640
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin_mahaney View Post

You know there is a "Search This Thread" function at the top of the page, right?

You know that forum rules says not to list your equipment in your sig, right?
post #1491 of 1640
Quote:
Originally Posted by djPerfectTrip View Post

You know that forum rules says not to list your equipment in your sig, right?

You got me.
post #1492 of 1640
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpiffX View Post

Hi all. D-Nice, I have a few quick questions for you. Before you get snappy at me, please note that this thread has 50 pages now and starts in early January (a time when very little was really known about how these TVs would turn out in real life).

I just came back from purchasing the VT50 at BestBuy (for pick-up on Friday). I did a lot of research before going there, and do realize that the differences between the 3 models are very small. However, when I got there, the first thing I saw on the VT50 floor model was a LOT of judder. I asked for the remote and starting making adjustments (e.g., from vivid to thx, 1080p direct, all digital gimmicks set to off, sharpness down to 10, etc). Judder mostly disappeared (except for very fast panning scenes, where what I saw I don't think qualifies as actual judder). After doing all of this, I asked the salesman what he though were the big differences between the 3 models (I had done the research, but wanted to see what they had to say). His answer was that if I didn't like the judder, I should probably get the VT50. His rationale was that even though both the GT50 and ST50 have much better motion engines than anything else in the market, including the PN-E8000, the VT50 is better due to the 96Hz playback of 24p source content.

Now, my main concern in buying a TV is PQ over real life content.

So my questions are:
1) Are these models (all 3 of them) better than the flagship Samsung plasma in terms of PQ (e.g., black level, motion, etc)?
2) What difference does '96Hz playback of 24p source content' make over 48Hz given that both frequencies are multiples of 24? Is there a real difference?
3) Would you buy the VT over the ST (it's already clear that the GT is out of the question from the most recent posts) if money wasn't a problem?

Would be extremely grateful for your help (with the understanding that some or all of these questions are probably already answered in the earlier 50 pages... the answers might actually be a good refresh to the thread...)

Thanks!

Spiffx

Snappy????

1. No.
2.Yes there is a difference. A lot less flicker with 96Hz.
3. Yes.
post #1493 of 1640
Quote:
Originally Posted by HLdan View Post

It's really not that much cheaper anymore. I'm actually not looking for any conclusion. I was just responding to earlier post from members who were interested in the GT50 over the ST50. Unfortunately I got caught in the middle.

That's very true, but if the finance committee is on the rampage, $200 saved can be presented as half the cost of an outstanding professional calibration.
post #1494 of 1640
Quote:
Originally Posted by djPerfectTrip View Post

You know that forum rules says not to list your equipment in your sig, right?

My apologies. No justification, but the reason there was a sig is because its been there since 2005 when I came here last looking for advice on buying an SXRD (about time I changed it given how much technology has evolved). Not sure if back then the rule existed, but no one complained. I just changed my sig, given that one is now outdated. Not sure if the new one is still an offender given that it is not specific.

Also, just noticed I've also got a very nice Spaceman Spiff pic as avatar! How cool is that!

Again, my apologies.

Spiffx
post #1495 of 1640
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin_mahaney View Post

You know there is a "Search This Thread" function at the top of the page, right?

Apologies for my 'technology challengedness' as well as for my grammatical incorrectness...

Cheers,
Spiffx
post #1496 of 1640
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Snappy????

1. No.
2.Yes there is a difference. A lot less flicker with 96Hz.
3. Yes.

Awesome! Thanks!!! I guess I made the right choice then.

What do you own? Will you be getting a VT50?

Thanks again,
Spiffx
post #1497 of 1640
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpiffX View Post

What do you own?

Kuros

Quote:


Will you be getting a VT50?

Nah but I will be getting one for my dad.
post #1498 of 1640
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorM View Post

While I was never actually considering a GT model, it never really crossed my mind that the THX modes will be come less accurate as the panels age. Sort of makes the mode pretty useless.

I will say one advantage is really the THX 3D mode since I've yet to see recommended calibrations for 3D (although they're probably out there).
And of course the extra HDMI port.

Still if I was going to step up from the ST I would save my pennies and go VT.

What took me a long time to realize is that the various picture modes like THX are nothing more that labels for the number of calibrations that your display is able to remember at one given time. The manufacturer includes setting in each mode that claim to meet some objective or other like cinema or game. If you hire a qualified calibrator, that person can calibrate any of those labeled modes any way that you want.

As for the settings drifting away from producing the state the display was in when it was new or when it was professionally calibrated, that's just the result of the phosphors aging. It's their nature to dissipate and age with use -- just like us.

The ST50 models seem to have enough modes to cover most installations, but the GT50 and VT50 have the THX modes in addition. I only use one mode on our Kuro, but I don't game, and I don't need to adjust for daytime, and I don't expect to ever do 3D. There are clever folks out their who can probably think of additional modes that would be nice for their viewing, but I can't.
post #1499 of 1640
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpiffX View Post

My apologies. No justification, but the reason there was a sig is because its been there since 2005 when I came here last looking for advice on buying an SXRD (about time I changed it given how much technology has evolved). Not sure if back then the rule existed, but no one complained. I just changed my sig, given that one is now outdated. Not sure if the new one is still an offender given that it is not specific.

Also, just noticed I've also got a very nice Spaceman Spiff pic as avatar! How cool is that!

Again, my apologies.

Spiffx

The comment wasn't pointed at you, but the guy I quoted.
post #1500 of 1640
Quote:
Originally Posted by djPerfectTrip View Post

Likewise with getting the TV calibrated. What's the point of paying for a 'perfect' picture when it's just going to shift over time?

Life is what you get out of the journey. Remember when one of our past presidents used "It's the economy, stupid!" to keep him on track during his first campaign?

"It's the trip, stupid!" is what I keep telling myself.
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