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Official Panasonic 2012 Lineup and Information Thread [No Price Talk] - Page 7

post #181 of 1640
I've been following this thread and now suddenly find myself in the market for a small format plasma.
Was there any word what changes we can expect for the 42"-ish models?

I know Panasonic is the only plasma maker in that size with full 1080p right now, so I'm wondering what 2012 will bring. (Translation: Should I wait?)
post #182 of 1640
Thread Starter 
The ST50 and UT50 information recently appeared on Panasonic's Plasma page, with estimated ship dates of March/April:

50ST50 http://shop.panasonic.com/shop/model/TC-P50ST50?t=specs

55ST50 http://shop.panasonic.com/shop/model/TC-P55ST50

50UT50 http://shop.panasonic.com/shop/model/TC-P50UT50
post #183 of 1640
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorM View Post

I've been following this thread and now suddenly find myself in the market for a small format plasma. Was there any word what changes we can expect for the 42"-ish models?

I know Panasonic is the only plasma maker in that size with full 1080p right now, so I'm wondering what 2012 will bring. (Translation: Should I wait?)

If having an Anti Reflective Filter is important to you then i'd jump on a 42ST30 right now if you can find one still in stock. Panasonic won't be making a 42" (or 46") ST50 series, the highest model below 50" will now be the UT50 (supposedly will be available in 42") but the panel isn't as good as the one on the ST50, and without that all-important AR Filter the UT50 will be like a dark reflective mirror.

Comparison chart UT50 vs ST50:

http://shop.panasonic.com/compare/?i...Nbr=TC-P50ST50
post #184 of 1640
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

If having an Anti Reflective Filter is important to you then i'd jump on a 42ST30 right now if you can find one still in stock. Panasonic won't be making a 42" (or 46") ST50 series, the highest model below 50" will now be the UT50 (supposedly will be available in 42") but the panel isn't as good as the one on the ST50, and without that all-important AR Filter the UT50 will be like a dark reflective mirror.

Comparison chart UT50 vs ST50:

http://shop.panasonic.com/compare/?i...Nbr=TC-P50ST50

The problem is I've been leaning towards the 42S30 because the price of the ST is 50% more and adds 3D which isn't important.
I'm only hesitating because I can't find a solid review of it. I know it doesn't have the Infinite Black 2 panel... and I now have less of an idea how it would compare to the UT50.

Edit: Wow just noticed this spec: AVCHD 3D/Progressive, SD-VIDEO/MotionJPEG (Lumix)/MKV/MP4/MOV/M4v/FLV/3GPP/VRO/VOB/TS/PS, MP3/AAC/FLAC, JPEG/MPO

That's pretty unexpected.

Edit 2: It looks like they are discontinuing the S series. UT is not only the HIGHEST 42" model for 2012, it's also the LOWEST to still have 1080p.
I wish I could find someone with an MSRP on the 42UT50, I'm betting that will be a real step up from the 42S30 but less expensive than the ST's.
post #185 of 1640
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorM View Post

The problem is I've been leaning towards the 42S30 because the price of the ST is 50% more and adds 3D which isn't important.
I'm only hesitating because I can't find a solid review of it. I know it doesn't have the Infinite Black 2 panel... and I now have less of an idea how it would compare to the UT50.

Edit: Wow just noticed this spec: AVCHD 3D/Progressive, SD-VIDEO/MotionJPEG (Lumix)/MKV/MP4/MOV/M4v/FLV/3GPP/VRO/VOB/TS/PS, MP3/AAC/FLAC, JPEG/MPO

That's pretty unexpected.

Edit 2: It looks like they are discontinuing the S series. UT is not only the HIGHEST 42" model for 2012, it's also the LOWEST to still have 1080p.
I wish I could find someone with an MSRP on the 42UT50, I'm betting that will be a real step up from the 42S30 but less expensive than the ST's.

That extra 50% percent is totally worth it just for the panel used on the ST series (not the same and inferior to the S30). I've had a 42ST30 since April in my living room and the PQ is absolutely amazing, so much so I opted to not ISF calibrate it (all my other displays have had it done). I was able to compare a 50S30 and the 42ST30 since they were right next to each other in BB and no matter what I did to tweak the S30 could bring it even close to the ST30. I, too, have zero interest in 3D but in my opinion I'd spring for the ST30 if you could afford it.
post #186 of 1640
From what it looks like, I'm wondering if they are planning on scrapping the 40+" S and ST this year, and then selling the UT as a compromise at the S's price point (guesstimating by the UT 50" MSRP).
post #187 of 1640
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorM View Post

,,,It looks like they are discontinuing the S series. UT is not only the HIGHEST 42" model for 2012, it's also the LOWEST to still have 1080p....I'm betting that will be a real step up from the 42S30 but less expensive than the ST's.

Well since the ST50 won't be available in anything less than 50" size it's a moot point now if you're looking for a 42 incher. A friend got his 42ST30 for $799 at BB a few months ago, but now they have it for about a hundred bucks more. Amazon's supply dried up a few weeks ago.

Quote:


I wish I could find someone with an MSRP on the 42UT50,

Here are the List Prices for the UT50 series:

TC-P42UT50 $799 MSRP

TC-P50UT50 $1,099 MSRP

TC-P55UT50 $1,399 MSRP

TC-P60UT50 $1,799 MSRP




Comparison chart S30 vs UT50:

http://shop.panasonic.com/compare/?i...Nbr=TC-P50UT50
post #188 of 1640
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorM View Post

From what it looks like, I'm wondering if they are planning on scrapping the 40+" S and ST this year, and then selling the UT as a compromise at the S's price point (guesstimating by the UT 50" MSRP).

There is no money in 42" and under products. In fact its getting to where the 50" are at that point too.
post #189 of 1640
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post


There is no money in 42" and under products. In fact its getting to where the 50" are at that point too.

Do you mean that no one is buying them, or there is an extremely small profit margin on them? The latter, I guess.
post #190 of 1640
Quote:
Originally Posted by skro View Post

Do you mean that no one is buying them, or there is an extremely small profit margin on them? The latter, I guess.

Lack of profit margin, not lack of sales. And it's brutal since every LCD can compete in that size as well.
post #191 of 1640
Do we know anything else about the changes in tech? The comparison chart is very helpful with a lot of blanks. The UT for 2012 versus the ST for 2011 seem hard to compare (infinite black aside).

Edit: The UT frankly sounds like it has some real improvements over this year's ST, like 48hz for cinematic 24p playback. The ST30 appears to use 3:2 playback.
post #192 of 1640
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

The prices of the 2012 models are going to look a lot like the 2011 models, except if you needed to guess which direction to move them, you should look to move them toward zero, not away from zero.

For example, the VT30 was introduced at an MSRP of $4499 (I believe). So a VT50 at a price of $3999 should not shock you. A price of $3499 (MSRP) should shock you. A price as high as last year's is not out of the question, but is unlikely given the competitive forces in the industry. The above hypothetical discussion is based on conversations with Panasonic, but quotes no one, uses figures for illustrative purposes only, and should not be construed as suggesting anyone specifically intimated a particular MSRP for any model.

Don't know if you've seen this but the originally planned MSRP on the 65VT50 has recently been reduced from $3,999 down to $3,699 now.
post #193 of 1640
Yes, Randy, I did see that.

It's funny that if I had correctly remember that the 65VT30 was intro'd at $4299 (instead of the $4499 I wrote in the linked post) how close that would be to what seems to be happening.

As a likely buyer, I'm always happy to save $300.
post #194 of 1640
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorM View Post

Do we know anything else about the changes in tech? The comparison chart is very helpful with a lot of blanks. The UT for 2012 versus the ST for 2011 seem hard to compare (infinite black aside).

Edit: The UT frankly sounds like it has some real improvements over this year's ST, like 48hz for cinematic 24p playback. The ST30 appears to use 3:2 playback.

I'm not sure exactly what will be different, but I do know when compared to the ST50 series; it won't have the new faster phosphors, or the technology associated with its higher brightness. To me it seems, the UT series is a 2011 ST model minus the anti-glare screen, but with the new drive system for deeper blacks.
post #195 of 1640
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorM View Post

Do we know anything else about the changes in tech? The comparison chart is very helpful with a lot of blanks. The UT for 2012 versus the ST for 2011 seem hard to compare (infinite black aside).

Edit: The UT frankly sounds like it has some real improvements over this year's ST, like 48hz for cinematic 24p playback. The ST30 appears to use 3:2 playback.

I wouldn't let the 48hz playback have any effect on your decision as it is almost unviewable by most people's standards. It flickers like crazy to my eyes. I have heard that perceivable judder is almost non existent on the st model even w/o 24p playback. I am not sure exactly how that is possible, but that is the feedback I have read with regard to 3:2. FYI, I have an older g10 with 48hz 24p playback, but from what I understand it is no better on the newer sets.
post #196 of 1640
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

Don't know if you've seen this but the originally planned MSRP on the 65VT50 has recently been reduced from $3,999 down to $3,699 now.

Wow. Thank you Sharp!

Hope the early reports on the 65" are that they are BRIGHTER than the prior model.
post #197 of 1640
@chadsdsmith, Thanks for the info. I would have assumed the 3:2 to have judder and the 48hz to be nice and clean (being 2:2 versus the 3:2). (Can anyone confirm this?)

@DaveZ06, I'm not sure that statement about the fast phosphors being correct. It appears to be used even in the S series for 2011. I think all current Pany's have it.
post #198 of 1640
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorM View Post

@chadsdsmith, Thanks for the info. I would have assumed the 3:2 to have judder and the 48hz to be nice and clean (being 2:2 versus the 3:2). (Can anyone confirm this?)

@DaveZ06, I'm not sure that statement about the fast phosphors being correct. It appears to be used even in the S series for 2011. I think all current Pany's have it.

All of the 2012, 1080p models have the fast switching phosphor. From what I have read and heard; the ST/GT/VT models will have an even faster phosphor compared to their 2011 siblings. These new phosphors have something to do with the technology associated with the higher-end models increased brightness. The UT series does not get the brightness bump since it's not a NeoPDP. Essentially, the UT model is an ST with a new drive system, but no anti-glare screen.
post #199 of 1640
Randy, u accidentally linked the spanish gt30 manual instead of the st50 manual. Not that anyone probably tried to read it other than myself most likely. Reading the ut50s first gave me a good idea as to what they're talking about on the st50.

correct linkage to st50 user manual (spanish):
http://service.us.panasonic.com/OPER...50ST50-SPA.PDF
post #200 of 1640
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorM View Post

@chadsdsmith, Thanks for the info. I would have assumed the 3:2 to have judder and the 48hz to be nice and clean (being 2:2 versus the 3:2). (Can anyone confirm this?)

@DaveZ06, I'm not sure that statement about the fast phosphors being correct. It appears to be used even in the S series for 2011. I think all current Pany's have it.

The S most certainly does have the fast switching phosphors as it displays the most noticeable fault associated with that tech: green blobs.
post #201 of 1640
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sage11x View Post

The S most certainly does have the fast switching phosphors as it displays the most noticeable fault associated with that tech: green blobs.

I'm pretty sure that's incorrect. From everything we've heard and have read, the S30 does not have the fast switching phosphors since it does not have the NeoPlasma panel, which is also why the S30 has less lines of moving resolution than the ST30.

What do the faster phosphors have to do with the green blob defect??
post #202 of 1640
Does anyone know (or is it assumed) that the subwoofer on the 2012 ST/GT/VT models will have a separate volume control than the speakers?
post #203 of 1640
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

I'm pretty sure that's incorrect. From everything we've heard and have read, the S30 does not have the fast switching phosphors since it does not have the NeoPlasma panel, which is also why the S30 has less lines of moving resolution than the ST30.

What do the faster phosphors have to do with the green blob defect??

Then you haven't been paying attention.

The S30 has the same number of moving resolution lines. You're simply accepting panasonic's spec chart which is hilariously inept. Somehow this rumor got started here and it's funny as NO ONE based that observation on actually data!

The best guess is that the green/magenta issues on the panels has something to do with the driving mechanism causing the green/red to "linger" or decay slower at certain gamma intensities at different locations across the panel. Which also explains why some have been able to lessen the effect through calibration. There is about 5 sequential threads of data over on avforum and also a metric butt-ton more data over at hidefjunkies.
post #204 of 1640
Quote:
Originally Posted by svgtom View Post

Does anyone know (or is it assumed) that the subwoofer on the 2012 ST/GT/VT models will have a separate volume control than the speakers?

In the audio menu you'll be able to adjust things such as bass and trebe. My assumption is that tweaking the bass option will change the subwoofer usage. It will likely be very basic controls, i highly doubt you'll be able to adjust crossover frequencies and such. I would still recommend a sound bar or preferably a full surround sound if u plan to watch movies.
post #205 of 1640
Let's make this easy: http://www.panasonic.com/apps/match-...inal_lores.pdf

First line of specs for the S30: "Fast Switching Phosphors".

It looks a lot like the real difference between the S30 and ST30 is pretty much the 3D and Infinite Black filter... while next year's ST50 vs UT50 differences are the Infinite Black and the Shades of Gradation which are double on the ST50... but also double THIS year's ST30.

Is the Infinite Black really that important to the quality? I read somewhere that it gives a deeper black, but also reduces the vibrancy.
post #206 of 1640
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorM View Post

Let's make this easy: http://www.panasonic.com/apps/match-...inal_lores.pdf

First line of specs for the S30: "Fast Switching Phosphors".

It looks a lot like the real difference between the S30 and ST30 is pretty much the 3D and Infinite Black filter... while next year's ST50 vs UT50 differences are the Infinite Black and the Shades of Gradation which are double on the ST50... but also double THIS year's ST30.

Is the Infinite Black really that important to the quality? I read somewhere that it gives a deeper black, but also reduces the vibrancy.

The ST has a better image processor, a vastly better screen filter (the so-called louvre filter) and has a peak luminance boost which one of the guys over in the S thread said he could match through service menu manipulation-- but as I'm not that inclined I can't confirm.

My dad has an ST, my brother a GT and I have an S. most interestingly, my dad had both an S and an ST, both in 60", at the same time. The ST was noticeably better with 'challenging' material. Bluray image quality was very similar but the ST's better filter does help blacks to appear darker.
post #207 of 1640
What are the release dates ?

My 8 year old lcd is finally fading
post #208 of 1640
Typically how long after a set is released do reviews start popping up? I just ordered a 42ST30 from Amazon but now I'm reading about the whole green blob issue that affects the 2011 sets..so if it's a problem I'll consider returning it and grabbing a UT50 pending the reviews and input of of the fine users on AVS
post #209 of 1640
The UT50 will likely be a step down from the ST30, but it will be the best 42" available in 2012. A big thing you'll lose is the filter on the screen that the ST30 has so unless you only watch in a dark room, the ST30 will have better blacks if any lights are on or coming through the windows. You'll also lose a good amount of connections, mainly dropping from 3 HDMI ports on the ST30 to 2 HDMI ports on the UT50, although if you use a receiver this could be meaningless. Last, the wifi dongle will have to be purchased separately with the UT50. Again, meaningless if you wire it up or don't mind using external devices, but it's something to think about. The filter is the biggest thing IMO you'll lose.
post #210 of 1640
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sillycyberfunguy View Post

What are the release dates ? My 8 year old lcd is finally fading

Panasonic dot com shows the 50ST50, 55ST50, and 50UT50 available for order now and shipping in 2-4 days. Best Buy will probably be getting their inventory the 3rd-4th week of March. GT50 should be soon after.
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