or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Blu-ray & HD DVD › Blu-ray Players › Official 2012 Sony BDP-S790 Thread
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Official 2012 Sony BDP-S790 Thread - Page 52

post #1531 of 3486
I am a fan of the S790 and will probably be purchasing one soon to serve as my everyday BD player. However, I have to question one of David’s comments in his review of the S790 in Home Theater mag. I also own an Oppo BDP-95 and for him to say in his review that the S790’s “performance equals” the Oppo “in nearly every way”, is, in my opinion, a bit overreaching. I wouldn’t feel this way if he hadn’t used such an ambiguous phrase but had he specifically limited his comparison to BD playback, streaming services, and, MAYBE, DVD upscaling. Admittedly, I cannot confidently question upscaling because I have not yet seen a side-by-side comparison though I am left wondering if any proprietary chip developed by Sony can really equal the Oppos’ Marvell's Kyoto-G2 video processor.

Now, if by “performance” he was referring to those three categories, read no further. If it wasn’t so limited, then I believe he failed to acknowledge several obvious performance advantages of the Oppos and with the 95 in particular that justify the price difference such as its far superior DAC chipset in the SABRE32 (one for the 7.1 analog outs and one for the dedicated stereo output), a custom designed toroidal power transformer built by Rotel, XLR Balanced Stereo Output, FLAC and DVD-Audio support, a subtitle shift feature (one of my favorites), PAL/NTSC Conversion, and the fact the Oppos can be easily made region free with mods or discs that don’t require opening the cabinet. So while I think this is one of Sony’s finest players to date and is an excellent value, it’s “performance” is not nearly equal (left undefined) with the Oppos.
post #1532 of 3486
Quote:
Originally Posted by electronics craz View Post

hi i have an oppo 93 which i love but at this price of the sony im tempted.how is the sound quality of sacd on this player?thanks
The Sony passes full DSD over HDMI so it should sound the same as your Oppo 93 for SACD.
post #1533 of 3486
Quote:
Originally Posted by electronics craz View Post

hi i have an oppo 93 which i love but at this price of the sony im tempted.how is the sound quality of sacd on this player?thanks

If your only requirements are blu-ray, DVD and streaming, then I would recommend the Sony. If you require 7.1 analog support I would consider the Panasonic DMP-BMT500. The only compelling reason to purchase the Oppo is if you require many of the additional features that it has over both the Sony and Panasonic and some of them are significant depending on your needs. For basic blu-ray and DVD playback they are all fine performers.

This is just my opinion being an owner of all three.smile.gif
post #1534 of 3486
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcuslaw View Post

I am a fan of the S790 and will probably be purchasing one soon to serve as my everyday BD player. However, I have to question one of David’s comments in his review of the S790 in Home Theater mag. I also own an Oppo BDP-95 and for him to say in his review that the S790’s “performance equals” the Oppo “in nearly every way”, is, in my opinion, a bit overreaching. I wouldn’t feel this way if he hadn’t used such an ambiguous phrase but had he specifically limited his comparison to BD playback, streaming services, and, MAYBE, DVD upscaling. Admittedly, I cannot confidently question upscaling because I have not yet seen a side-by-side comparison though I am left wondering if any proprietary chip developed by Sony can really equal the Oppos’ Marvell's Kyoto-G2 video processor.

Now, if by “performance” he was referring to those three categories, read no further. If it wasn’t so limited, then I believe he failed to acknowledge several obvious performance advantages of the Oppos and with the 95 in particular that justify the price difference such as its far superior DAC chipset in the SABRE32 (one for the 7.1 analog outs and one for the dedicated stereo output), a custom designed toroidal power transformer built by Rotel, XLR Balanced Stereo Output, FLAC and DVD-Audio support, a subtitle shift feature (one of my favorites), PAL/NTSC Conversion, and the fact the Oppos can be easily made region free with mods or discs that don’t require opening the cabinet. So while I think this is one of Sony’s finest players to date and is an excellent value, it’s “performance” is not nearly equal (left undefined) with the Oppos.

marcuslaw,

I drew some of the same conclusions when I read the review also. However, after letting his words sink in a little I came to the conclusion that he can ONLY be talking about blu-ray, DVD and streaming (+1 for the Sony). This is the one fault I see consistently when people (many reviewers) compare any of the Oppos to the sub $400.00 transport. They omit everything the else the Oppos does in then talk about the price delta.

I agree with his findings as it relates to blu-ray, DVD and streaming (based on streaming partners), but beyond that the Oppo is better for all that it does and worth every penny above the cost of this Sony for my needs. However, as stated in a previous post I highly recommend the Sony for what it provides at its price point.

If the Sony had better build quality, supported 7.1 analog, DVD-A (already supports SACD), HDCD and all the user created media as the Oppo it would probably be in the same price range or more than the BDP-93 and would have an ES designation.biggrin.gif

I try to read reviews for what they are not saying in as much for what they are saying.smile.gif
Edited by bakerwi - 8/4/12 at 7:32am
post #1535 of 3486
Quote:
Originally Posted by drhankz View Post

Did you READ my STATEMENT

I did. Perhaps I misunderstood what you were trying to say.
post #1536 of 3486
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smackrabbit View Post

....... but it you put it next to the S590 or the Panasonic BDP-DMP210 or the Oppo 93 and watch a Blu-ray movie, you're going to see the exact same picture on each.

Appreciate your assessment. Do you feel this is still the case if watching a BluRay concert where the source was video based (1080i?) rather than a movie (1080p)?

Thanks
Bruce
post #1537 of 3486
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcuslaw View Post

I am a fan of the S790 and will probably be purchasing one soon to serve as my everyday BD player. However, I have to question one of David’s comments in his review of the S790 in Home Theater mag. I also own an Oppo BDP-95 and for him to say in his review that the S790’s “performance equals” the Oppo “in nearly every way”, is, in my opinion, a bit overreaching. I wouldn’t feel this way if he hadn’t used such an ambiguous phrase but had he specifically limited his comparison to BD playback, streaming services, and, MAYBE, DVD upscaling. Admittedly, I cannot confidently question upscaling because I have not yet seen a side-by-side comparison though I am left wondering if any proprietary chip developed by Sony can really equal the Oppos’ Marvell's Kyoto-G2 video processor.
Now, if by “performance” he was referring to those three categories, read no further. If it wasn’t so limited, then I believe he failed to acknowledge several obvious performance advantages of the Oppos and with the 95 in particular that justify the price difference such as its far superior DAC chipset in the SABRE32 (one for the 7.1 analog outs and one for the dedicated stereo output), a custom designed toroidal power transformer built by Rotel, XLR Balanced Stereo Output, FLAC and DVD-Audio support, a subtitle shift feature (one of my favorites), PAL/NTSC Conversion, and the fact the Oppos can be easily made region free with mods or discs that don’t require opening the cabinet. So while I think this is one of Sony’s finest players to date and is an excellent value, it’s “performance” is not nearly equal (left undefined) with the Oppos.

Let me see if I can clear this up. As a Digital Transport, the Sony does extremely well for the price as a Blu-ray Player (sorry if I wasn't clearer). It doesn't compare in the analog realm, where the BDP-95 excels. Does that make sense?

As for the Sony, it is a much better streaming player (adds more services that Oppo doesn't have, namely Amazon Prime for one), it's BD playback over HDMI is equal, its speed and UI is virtually identical, and in side by side comparisons, the DVD upconversion is indistinguishable between the two units to my eyes.
post #1538 of 3486
I have a question about the DVD upscaling. Would I set the 790's video out put to "auto", or to 1080p? If set to auto, does it send out a signal equal to the original output of the disk i.e., 480i? Does forcing the player output to 1080p send the 480i signal to the upscaler for conversion? Thanks for any help.
Mark
post #1539 of 3486
Quote:
Originally Posted by bakerwi View Post

marcuslaw,
I drew some of the same conclusions when I read the review also. However, after letting his words sink in a little I came to the conclusion that he can ONLY be talking about blu-ray, DVD and streaming (+1 for the Sony). This is the one fault I see consistently when people (many reviewers) compare any of the Oppos to the sub $400.00 transport. They omit everything the else the Oppos does in then talk about the price delta.
I agree with his findings as it relates to blu-ray, DVD and streaming (based on streaming partners), but beyond that the Oppo is better for all that it does and worth every penny above the cost of this Sony for my needs. However, as stated in a previous post I highly recommend the Sony for what it provides at its price point.
If the Sony had better build quality, supported 7.1 analog, DVD-A (already supports SACD), HDCD and all the user created media as the Oppo it would probably be in the same price range or more than the BDP-93 and would have an ES designation.biggrin.gif
I try to read reviews for what they are not saying in as much for what they are saying.smile.gif

Thanks for reading between the lines...you summed up what I was thinking at the time (and still think now). One other reason to buy Oppo is for its excellent customer service, which is second to none. It's hard to say that when reviewing another company's product though biggrin.gif
post #1540 of 3486

I recently sold my Oppo 83 and replaced it with the Sony790.    I'm no videophile, but it is doing a very good job.

 

One trivial thing, though, is the following:   on my learning remote (an ancient but very reliable URC100) I program a macro that turns on the BD player, switches the input to the AVR (from Comcast dvr to the bd player), and opens the player's tray .    This worked reliably with the Oppo, but the Sony is slower starting up when I turn it on--it repeatedly flashes 'wait' for ~10 secs or so, but long enough that it doesn't pick up the 'open tray' command from the URC.

 

So I've just deleted the 'open tray' command and wait until the 'wait' light stops flashing, and then open the tray with a separate button click (a button programmed from the Sony's remote to the URC).    As noted, this is a trivial point.

post #1541 of 3486
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceOmega View Post

Appreciate your assessment. Do you feel this is still the case if watching a BluRay concert where the source was video based (1080i?) rather than a movie (1080p)?
Thanks
Bruce

All of these pass 2:2 pulldown testing and so 1080i60 should be identical between them as well. It's pretty trivial to do that correctly at this point, so if something were to fail that, that would be the big deal.

I think when Dave, and myself, say something like the BDP-S790 equals the Oppo 95 in almost every way, we're referring to the things that they can both do. Obviously the Oppo does a lot of things that other players just cannot do (Universal player, subtitle shift, PAL playback, SABRE DACs, and so on) and for many people one, or many, of those features will be essential to have. I can't live without the subtitle shift now since I have a 2.40:1 screen, and I use the SABRE DACs (though on a BDP-83SE and not the 95) for DVD-A, SACD, and CD playback. But if I didn't need anything that the Oppo offered beyond what the BDP-S790 has, then I could install the BDP-S790 and be perfectly fine.

Of course, it's taken everyone else this long to catch up to the Oppo and it's video processing, dual HDMI outputs, DVD scaling, and everything else, and aside from more streaming services, they aren't really offering anything better than the Oppo performance-wise at this point. There are a lot of Blu-ray players out there now, and a lot of them are very good, but how much you need to spend is often determined by what features you need on your player, so it makes it hard to say with certainty that one is better than another. As much as I love the Oppo 95, I'd never be able to install it in the bedroom because my wife would kill me for not having Hulu Plus, but it's the one I'd pick to put in my home theater, since I have a 2.40 screen and don't watch streaming content in there anyway. But it's important to remember the distinction between performance and features.
post #1542 of 3486
Quote:
Originally Posted by dpippel View Post

I did. Perhaps I misunderstood what you were trying to say.

I think you mis-understood.

Of course if you don't have a 4K Display - you can't use 4K.

But since the Scaler is capable of taking 480i [Regular DVD] all
the way to 4K -- when you have a 4K Display - that means it is a
very powerful scaler with powerful ALGORITHMS.

The EXRTA POWER - helps it do a BETTER THAN AVERAGE
job even at 2K - Which was the POINT I was trying to make.

I should know - as a Ph.D. in Electrical Engineering - I developed
the world's 1st ever raster scan CRT back in 1972. A simple analogy
of what I Mean by raster scan display --

Today EVERY Display device uses 1's and 0's to paint an image
on a screen scanning back and forth.
post #1543 of 3486
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smackrabbit View Post

All of these pass 2:2 pulldown testing and so 1080i60 should be identical between them as well. It's pretty trivial to do that correctly at this point, so if something were to fail that, that would be the big deal.
I think when Dave, and myself, say something like the BDP-S790 equals the Oppo 95 in almost every way, we're referring to the things that they can both do. Obviously the Oppo does a lot of things that other players just cannot do (Universal player, subtitle shift, PAL playback, SABRE DACs, and so on) and for many people one, or many, of those features will be essential to have. I can't live without the subtitle shift now since I have a 2.40:1 screen, and I use the SABRE DACs (though on a BDP-83SE and not the 95) for DVD-A, SACD, and CD playback. But if I didn't need anything that the Oppo offered beyond what the BDP-S790 has, then I could install the BDP-S790 and be perfectly fine.
Of course, it's taken everyone else this long to catch up to the Oppo and it's video processing, dual HDMI outputs, DVD scaling, and everything else, and aside from more streaming services, they aren't really offering anything better than the Oppo performance-wise at this point. There are a lot of Blu-ray players out there now, and a lot of them are very good, but how much you need to spend is often determined by what features you need on your player, so it makes it hard to say with certainty that one is better than another. As much as I love the Oppo 95, I'd never be able to install it in the bedroom because my wife would kill me for not having Hulu Plus, but it's the one I'd pick to put in my home theater, since I have a 2.40 screen and don't watch streaming content in there anyway. But it's important to remember the distinction between performance and features.

Very well said Chris and I totally agree with you. Frankly, the BDP-95 and S790 are catering to completely different markets. A closer comparison is the BDP-93, which is $499, but with the street price of the Sony being as low as it is, it's a hell of a bargain for a pretty damn good player that has the most useful streaming apps available on its platform. I've spoken to Oppo about Amazon and they are trying to get it approved, but for some reason Amazon is dragging its feet.
post #1544 of 3486
Quote:
Originally Posted by drhankz View Post

I think you mis-understood.
Of course if you don't have a 4K Display - you can't use 4K.
But since the Scaler is capable of taking 480i [Regular DVD] all
the way to 4K -- when you have a 4K Display - that means it is a
very powerful scaler with powerful ALGORITHMS.
The EXRTA POWER - helps it do a BETTER THAN AVERAGE
job even at 2K - Which was the POINT I was trying to make.

Gotcha, but I think that's bit of a stretch. How do we know that the 4K capability directly equates to better 1080p scaling? Is there anything other than anecdotal evidence to support that conclusion? I'm not complaining though, as I'm very happy with the upconversion on the S790.
post #1545 of 3486
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Vaughn View Post

Thanks for reading between the lines...you summed up what I was thinking at the time (and still think now). One other reason to buy Oppo is for its excellent customer service, which is second to none. It's hard to say that when reviewing another company's product though biggrin.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smackrabbit View Post

All of these pass 2:2 pulldown testing and so 1080i60 should be identical between them as well. It's pretty trivial to do that correctly at this point, so if something were to fail that, that would be the big deal.
I think when Dave, and myself, say something like the BDP-S790 equals the Oppo 95 in almost every way, we're referring to the things that they can both do. Obviously the Oppo does a lot of things that other players just cannot do (Universal player, subtitle shift, PAL playback, SABRE DACs, and so on) and for many people one, or many, of those features will be essential to have. I can't live without the subtitle shift now since I have a 2.40:1 screen, and I use the SABRE DACs (though on a BDP-83SE and not the 95) for DVD-A, SACD, and CD playback. But if I didn't need anything that the Oppo offered beyond what the BDP-S790 has, then I could install the BDP-S790 and be perfectly fine.

Of course, it's taken everyone else this long to catch up to the Oppo and it's video processing, dual HDMI outputs, DVD scaling, and everything else, and aside from more streaming services, they aren't really offering anything better than the Oppo performance-wise at this point. There are a lot of Blu-ray players out there now, and a lot of them are very good, but how much you need to spend is often determined by what features you need on your player, so it makes it hard to say with certainty that one is better than another. As much as I love the Oppo 95, I'd never be able to install it in the bedroom because my wife would kill me for not having Hulu Plus, but it's the one I'd pick to put in my home theater, since I have a 2.40 screen and don't watch streaming content in there anyway. But it's important to remember the distinction between performance and features.

I've read enough reviews by both of you gentlemen and you both do an excellent job at your craft. Also, I know what you guys are referring to when ever you say the Oppo in the same breath as a sub $400.00 transport. Unfortunately, many focus on the price differential, especially when a respected reviewer compares it favorably to an Oppo, which is a testement to what Sony has accomplished in a $250 transport as it relates to blu-rady, DVD and it many streaming partners for those who enjoy streaming.smile.gif

Keep up the great work.
post #1546 of 3486
Quote:
Originally Posted by dpippel View Post

Gotcha, but I think that's bit of a stretch. How do we know that the 4K capability directly equates to better 1080p scaling? Is there anything other than anecdotal evidence to support that conclusion? I'm not complaining though, as I'm very happy with the upconversion on the S790.

READ the JoeRod Review and OTHERS
post #1547 of 3486
Quote:
Originally Posted by drhankz View Post

READ the JoeRod Review and OTHERS

I've read the reviews and I own the player. The evaluations of the scaler in all of them, particularly JoeRod's, are completely anectdotal.
post #1548 of 3486
SONY BDP-S790 FIRMWARE UPGRADE DISASTER.

SONY BDP-S790 ALERT!!!!! I HAVE THE BDP-S790 FOR 1 WEEK AND EVERYTHING WAS FINE. I DID THE NEW FIRMWARE UPGRADE TODAY AND MOST OF MY BLU RAY DISCS ARE NOT PLAYING. THEY ONLY COME UP AS "DATA BD" AND CANNOT PLAY IN PLAYER. THE ONLY DISC THAT PLAYS IS A 3D BD. I TRIED ABOUT 20 BD'S.

I ALSO HAVE THE SONY BDP-CX7000ES MULTI DISC CHANGER THAT ALL OF THESE BLU RAY DISCS STILL PLAY FINE IN.

HAS ANYONE ELSE EXPERIENCED THE SAME PROBLEM YET??

I ALREADY HAVE A NEW PLAYER ON THE WAY TO ME FROM MY ONLINE DEALER.
post #1549 of 3486
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevets42 View Post

SONY BDP-S790 FIRMWARE UPGRADE DISASTER.
SONY BDP-S790 ALERT!!!!! I HAVE THE BDP-S790 FOR 1 WEEK AND EVERYTHING WAS FINE. I DID THE NEW FIRMWARE UPGRADE TODAY AND MOST OF MY BLU RAY DISCS ARE NOT PLAYING. THEY ONLY COME UP AS "DATA BD" AND CANNOT PLAY IN PLAYER. THE ONLY DISC THAT PLAYS IS A 3D BD. I TRIED ABOUT 20 BD'S.
I ALSO HAVE THE SONY BDP-CX7000ES MULTI DISC CHANGER THAT ALL OF THESE BLU RAY DISCS STILL PLAY FINE IN.
HAS ANYONE ELSE EXPERIENCED THE SAME PROBLEM YET??
I ALREADY HAVE A NEW PLAYER ON THE WAY TO ME FROM MY ONLINE DEALER.

No. The only thing the firmware changed (other than the RGB fix) was to change the way the player deals with files under DLNA.
post #1550 of 3486
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevets42 View Post

HAS ANYONE ELSE EXPERIENCED THE SAME PROBLEM YET?? .
Not so far, but I think the new firmware also broke your caps lock key. It seems to be stuck.
post #1551 of 3486
Quote:
Originally Posted by dpippel View Post

I've read the reviews and I own the player. The evaluations of the scaler in all of them, particularly JoeRod's, are completely anectdotal.

I actually have a true 4K display (Sony 1000ES) so not sure how that could not be considered valid testing? eek.gif

Raise your hand if you have a "true" 4K display (one that is capable of accepting a 4K upconverted or true 4K signal).... That's what I thought... wink.gifsmile.gif
post #1552 of 3486
Quote:
Originally Posted by apw2607 View Post

No. The only thing the firmware changed (other than the RGB fix) was to change the way the player deals with files under DLNA.

apw,

Are you sure this firmware fixed the RGB issue? The release notes don't state this.

This utility updates the Blu-ray Disc player firmware to version M13.R.0443 and provides the following benefits:
Improvements over firmware version M13.R.0369:
•Improves BRAVIA® Internet Video connectivity

Benefits provided by previous upgrades and included in version M13.R.0443:
•Adds support for automatic setting of AV Separation Output Mode which allows you to set up connected devices automatically using Bravia Sync
•Adds support for the Sony® Entertainment Network portal
•Adds support for the "Recommendations" feature
Notes:◦The "Recommendations" feature automatically analyzes your interests by referencing your viewing history to find programs and items you may like, and presents them in the xross media bar™ menu.
◦This feature may not be available depending on your region and broadcasting conditions.

•Adds the ability to use the Skype® online calling service
post #1553 of 3486
Quote:
Originally Posted by bakerwi View Post

apw,
Are you sure this firmware fixed the RGB issue? The release notes don't state this.

Go back in the thread a bit and you'll find a post from me where I say I tested the update and the RGB issue is fixed. It's not 100% bit perfect, but it's far, far better than before with only small errors.
post #1554 of 3486
Not always, but most of the time: actual real fixes to serious problems are not mentioned in firmware update release notes and the fix itself is lumped together with other cumulative additions/fixes that were already planed for release anyway. This goes for most manufactures and all the ones I use: Sony, Mitsubishi, Panasonic, Onkyo (some exceptions with the 1009 receiver I must admit as of late), etc. For the general consumer, this may be a good thing?
post #1555 of 3486
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smackrabbit View Post

Go back in the thread a bit and you'll find a post from me where I say I tested the update and the RGB issue is fixed. It's not 100% bit perfect, but it's far, far better than before with only small errors.

Thanks Chris and to the other fellow poster (apw2607). I must have read right by it.smile.gif
post #1556 of 3486
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

I actually have a true 4K display (Sony 1000ES) so not sure how that could not be considered valid testing? eek.gif
Raise your hand if you have a "true" 4K display (one that is capable of accepting a 4K upconverted or true 4K signal).... That's what I thought... wink.gifsmile.gif

We weren't talking about 4k displays. We were discussing the anecdotal nature of the reviews of this players scaler when outputting 1080p from upconverted SD sources.
post #1557 of 3486
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlk4114 View Post

I have a question about the DVD upscaling. Would I set the 790's video out put to "auto", or to 1080p? If set to auto, does it send out a signal equal to the original output of the disk i.e., 480i? Does forcing the player output to 1080p send the 480i signal to the upscaler for conversion? Thanks for any help.
Mark

i've also always wondered about this...
post #1558 of 3486
Quote:
Originally Posted by dpippel View Post

We weren't talking about 4k displays. We were discussing the anecdotal nature of the reviews of this players scaler when outputting 1080p from upconverted SD sources.

Yes, and I tested its ability on a true 4K display. Both up converting to 4K and 1080p. Both with material and test patterns. And yes I tested DVDs...
post #1559 of 3486
Folks. If you have downloaded the latest firmware, using DLNA, using Serviio or Homestream and have issues with MKV and AVI files. Simply change the profile from SONY BD to

BRAVIA 2012 in Serviio
BRAVIA in Homestream

And all will be well again.
post #1560 of 3486
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlk4114 View Post

I have a question about the DVD upscaling. Would I set the 790's video out put to "auto", or to 1080p? If set to auto, does it send out a signal equal to the original output of the disk i.e., 480i? Does forcing the player output to 1080p send the 480i signal to the upscaler for conversion? Thanks for any help.
Mark

For resolution on the 790 there are two non-numeric choices: Auto and Original Resolution. With Original Resolution, DVDs come out at 480i, most movies at 1080p24, most concerts at 1080i60, just whatever is on the disc, that is what it spits out. Auto uses the EDID information in your display to determine the optimal resolution to use, as well as colorspace (if you set that at Auto). So if you have a 1080p display, choosing Auto or 1080p should be the same choice (provided the EDID is correct). The one situation I didn't try is with some 720p displays (like a Panny AE-900u projector I have around), they won't take 1080p60, but will take 720p60 and 1080p24. I'm not sure if you can use a combination of Auto or 720p and enable 1080p24 support to get those both to work on the BDP-S790 or not.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Blu-ray Players
AVS › AVS Forum › Blu-ray & HD DVD › Blu-ray Players › Official 2012 Sony BDP-S790 Thread