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Official 2012 Sony BDP-S790 Thread - Page 72

post #2131 of 3484
Quote:
Originally Posted by timmelemans View Post

I can honestly say I see difference between connection thrue my receiver or straight into my plasma on 24P. It's smoother with panning scenes. I have a hdmi 1.4 Onkyo receiver. I agree that the sound will not get better trough a seperate hdmi cable though.

I received my S790 last week after I returned the panny BDT500. It didn't fullfill my expectations on smoothning panning scenes.. I think the S790 is better with that, and I don't use the analog outputs. € 100,- is a big difference than between the two.

No, sorry.
post #2132 of 3484
Just got mine and it's working well. I tried both wi-fi and ethernet and they seem to work just as well. I performed the firmware upgrade via wi-fi without issues. It takes a few minutes and the screen shows 1/9 like it's stuck but eventually it updates and restarts then shuts down. No issues here.

I tried a few blurays like Planet Earth, Office Space and LOTR and the 1080p/24 output to my Sony NX720 works perfectly, no stutter and no tearing. DTS-MA was sent to the receiver as BitStream without issues. I used Direct mode for the picture with SBM ON. The picture quality is very clear especially since I am used to watching MKVs and streaming video.

If I am right next to the unit I can hear the drive spinning, but it's not noticeable once the movie starts and the sound is on. I noticed that disc playback cannot resume where you left off unless you have a USB flash drive inserted. I picked this one up on Amazon since it has good speeds on USB 2.0 and 3.0.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005Y8C0H4/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00

I also tried Netflix and Amazon VOD and they work very fast, Netflix loads and navigates noticeably faster than on my WDTV SMP. The scrolling through titles and loading of the video is faster and smoother.

I tried Twonky media with my QNAP TS-559 Pro+ and it also worked, but in this instance I do prefer the simplicity of the WDTV when streaming MKVs. The Sony relies on transcoding and it introduces some delay and makes REW and FF cumbersome. The WDTV can handle all the file formats natively and decode it without a 3rd party application.

I don't like the remote buttons, they are hard to press and the navigation cursor keys actually hurts your fingers when you press them! Who had the idea to design it this way? The remote is somewhat of a failure which is a shame.

Overall I am pleased and it's as good as the PS3 slim I recently retired due higher than necessary power use to watch Netflix or blurays. The PS3 also puts out a lot of heat compared to the WDTV and S790.

No issues with HDMI-CEC ON with TV, receiver and S790.

Connected as follows via HDMI and Ethernet for data:

Sony KDL-55NX720 => Onkyo RC-270 => Sony S790 everything is connected to an APC Smart UPS 1500.
Edited by iatacs19 - 1/16/13 at 6:15pm
post #2133 of 3484
I have a weird issue. Since I loaded the firmware update, various MKV files played over DLNA have stopped working. In fact I can not find a single MKV file the player will now accept, including ones it was perfectly happy with before. Transcoding to M2TS works fine, but I really do not want to have to do that every time I want to play an MKV.

Anyone have an idea what is going on?
post #2134 of 3484
I just got an S790. It seems to be working okay, except the remote volume +/- doesn't change the volume. Maybe that's how it is supposed to work, but it's inconvenient. I have the HDMI output connected to an Onkyo AVR, TX-NR3008, and I can change the volume okay by controlling the Onkyo volume using its own remote, but I haven't found a way to do that using the S790 remote's volume button. Is there a way?
post #2135 of 3484
Quote:
Originally Posted by timmelemans View Post

I have a question though. Is it possible on the S790 to manualy shift the subs in a blu-ray movie? I cannot find this option. The BDT500 has that and it's a really nice feature because you can position the subs in the black parts below the movie when watching 2.40:1 for example.

Anyone? ;-)

Thanks.


Anyone?

Thanks
post #2136 of 3484
Quote:
Originally Posted by apw2607 View Post

No, sorry.

No,sorry what??
post #2137 of 3484
Quote:
Originally Posted by timmelemans View Post

I have a question though. Is it possible on the S790 to manualy shift the subs in a blu-ray movie? I cannot find this option. The BDT500 has that and it's a really nice feature because you can position the subs in the black parts below the movie when watching 2.40:1 for example.

Anyone? ;-)

Thanks.

No, Sorry.
post #2138 of 3484
Quote:
Originally Posted by timmelemans View Post

No,sorry what??

Yea, not sure what happened, Meant to answer your subtitle shift question (Above ^)
Edited by apw2607 - 1/17/13 at 8:41am
post #2139 of 3484
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox-UK View Post

I have a weird issue. Since I loaded the firmware update, various MKV files played over DLNA have stopped working. In fact I can not find a single MKV file the player will now accept, including ones it was perfectly happy with before. Transcoding to M2TS works fine, but I really do not want to have to do that every time I want to play an MKV.

Anyone have an idea what is going on?
Yup. Sony has apparently intentionally crippled their players by removing MKV playback via DLNA. If you need MKV via DLNA look at a dedicated media player or an Oppo Blu Ray player.
Edited by bluechunks - 1/17/13 at 8:35am
post #2140 of 3484
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluechunks View Post

Yup. Sony has apparently intentionally crippled their players by removing MKV playback via DLNA. If you need MKV via DLNA look at a dedicated media player or an Oppo Blu Ray player.

THis is completely not true. They did no such thing.

MKVs with AVC Mpeg 4 still play perfectly fine over DLNA, As do VC-1 and Mpeg 2 M2TS files too. That covers you for 99,9% BD "backups".

What Sony did do in a firmware update is the way the player deals with certain files when they are presented by the DLNA server. Because of the change, you need to change the configuration of the DLNA server side. Once thats done, it all works perfectly (as it did before).

Go to the S590 thread, it was discussed in detail there.
post #2141 of 3484
Quote:
Originally Posted by apw2607 View Post

THis is completely not true. They did no such thing.

MKVs with AVC Mpeg 4 still play perfectly fine over DLNA, As do VC-1 and Mpeg 2 M2TS files too. That covers you for 99,9% BD "backups".

What Sony did do in a firmware update is the way the player deals with certain files when they are presented by the DLNA server. Because of the change, you need to change the configuration of the DLNA server side. Once thats done, it all works perfectly (as it did before).

Go to the S590 thread, it was discussed in detail there.
Thanks for the correction. I never did any "troubleshooting" after Sony broke it on the server side since I stream to an Oppo anyway.

# # #

EDIT: I stand by my original statement. Sony broke MKV support.

If, after the firmware update, one has to use a specific "profile" (example: "Bravia 2012" in Serviio, as mentioned as "the fix" in the 590 thread) isn't that instructing the DLNA server to transcode the MKV's incompatible (but previously compatible) video/audio codecs into ones compatible with the device? (Isn't this the very definition of a profile compared to using a default "generic" DLNA profile with no transcoding?)

Thus, certain container/codec combinations are no longer supported natively but can be played via DLNA if one has a powerful enough server for realtime transcoding and the user is OK with a potential downgrade of codecs including a potential generational loss. Sure, the user has MKVs with all of the original codecs on the server, but the Sony will not play them any longer via DLNA until they are transcoded if they contain codecs that are no longer supported within MKV.

I find the suggestion that all Sony changed was "the way the player deals with certain files when they are presented by the DLNA server" mildly disingenuous given that folks were using generic DLNA profiles (i.e. the default or "no" profile) successfully prior to the update, particularly low-powered NAS servers without the CPU capability to transcode anything.

EDIT 2: I don't have the 790 to test in front of me at this house but I notice that the Serviio "Bravia 2012" Profile is taking a HD MKV (VC1) and transcoding it to MPEG2/DD 2.0 and even advertising it on DLNA as a MPEG video instead of a MKV as a work-around.
Edited by bluechunks - 1/17/13 at 1:35pm
post #2142 of 3484
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluechunks View Post

I find the suggestion that all Sony changed was "the way the player deals with certain files when they are presented by the DLNA server" mildly disingenuous given that folks were using generic DLNA profiles (i.e. the default or "no" profile) successfully prior to the update, particularly low-powered NAS servers without the CPU capability to transcode anything.

And this is the problem I have. My DLNA server is my NAS box and there are absolutely no options on it other than to turn DLNA on or off. Transcoding is not a possibility. Anyway, why should I need to transcode when I know that the player is perfectly capable on a hardware level of playing back the MKVs in question because IT USED TO DO SO WITH THE SAME FILES.

Is there a way to revert to a previous firmware release which has not crippled this functionality?
post #2143 of 3484
had the 790 for a few days now, and everything is going smooth so far. it is leaps and bounds better than my previous panny 210, and every bit as good in the upscaling as my former oppo 83 player. no 'q it's the best 250.00 player currently on the market.
post #2144 of 3484
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluechunks View Post

Thanks for the correction. I never did any "troubleshooting" after Sony broke it on the server side since I stream to an Oppo anyway.

# # #

EDIT: I stand by my original statement. Sony broke MKV support.

If, after the firmware update, one has to use a specific "profile" (example: "Bravia 2012" in Serviio, as mentioned as "the fix" in the 590 thread) isn't that instructing the DLNA server to transcode the MKV's incompatible (but previously compatible) video/audio codecs into ones compatible with the device? (Isn't this the very definition of a profile compared to using a default "generic" DLNA profile with no transcoding?)

Thus, certain container/codec combinations are no longer supported natively but can be played via DLNA if one has a powerful enough server for realtime transcoding and the user is OK with a potential downgrade of codecs including a potential generational loss. Sure, the user has MKVs with all of the original codecs on the server, but the Sony will not play them any longer via DLNA until they are transcoded if they contain codecs that are no longer supported within MKV.

I find the suggestion that all Sony changed was "the way the player deals with certain files when they are presented by the DLNA server" mildly disingenuous given that folks were using generic DLNA profiles (i.e. the default or "no" profile) successfully prior to the update, particularly low-powered NAS servers without the CPU capability to transcode anything.

EDIT 2: I don't have the 790 to test in front of me at this house but I notice that the Serviio "Bravia 2012" Profile is taking a HD MKV (VC1) and transcoding it to MPEG2/DD 2.0 and even advertising it on DLNA as a MPEG video instead of a MKV as a work-around.

Sir, nothing changed in that regard. For VC-1 and mpeg 2 you always had to remux it, for native playback, into a M2TS before and after the firmware change. MKV VC-1 and MKV mpeg 2 would not play natively without that tweak.

Broke suggest it no longer works and it does work.

And to clarify with the latest 790 firmware and Serviio, I'm using Bravia 2012 profile - us with transcoding disabled.

MKV AVC mpeg 4 play native
M2ts VC-1 plays native
M2ts mpeg 2 plays native

99.9% of my bases are covered
Edited by apw2607 - 1/17/13 at 6:34pm
post #2145 of 3484
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox-UK View Post

And this is the problem I have. My DLNA server is my NAS box and there are absolutely no options on it other than to turn DLNA on or off. Transcoding is not a possibility. Anyway, why should I need to transcode when I know that the player is perfectly capable on a hardware level of playing back the MKVs in question because IT USED TO DO SO WITH THE SAME FILES.

Is there a way to revert to a previous firmware release which has not crippled this functionality?

No. You can't go back to earlier firmware.

Serviio will run on NAS boxes that run Linux.

DLNA is a open standard that's designed to be flexible and configurable. You can't just blame the player . The server should be configurable to accommodate different players and the way they deals with different file types, codecs, etc.

Why sony made a change to the firmware around this, I've no idea. None of us will ever know but as a community we found a way to continue using the s790 for native file plaback exactly as it was before the update. The same files playback if and only if the server is reconfigured.
Edited by apw2607 - 1/17/13 at 6:17pm
post #2146 of 3484
Quote:
Originally Posted by apw2607 View Post

Broke suggest it no longer works and it does work.
Um....not really. Everything only works if its transcoded (or remuxed) with the revised firmware.
Quote:
Originally Posted by apw2607 View Post

And to clarify with the latest 790 firmware and Serviio, I'm using Bravia 2012 profile - us with transcoding disabled.

MKV AVC mpeg 4 play native
M2ts VC-1 plays native
M2ts mpeg 2 plays native

99.9% of my bases are covered
Your bases are. For the rest of us, of course, every other typical MKV codec combination that used to work no longer does. In deference to Sony, none of the MKV combinations we are discussing were advertised abilities....they "just worked"....until the capability was intensionally disabled.
post #2147 of 3484
Quote:
Originally Posted by apw2607 View Post

DLNA is a open standard that's designed to be flexible and configurable. You can't just blame the player . The server should be configurable to accommodate different players and the way they deals with different file types, codecs, etc.
I 100% disagree.

As an example, try out an Oppo BDP-93 or 103 (or any one of several current dedicated media players) that will play nearly every known container/codec combination. In the case of the S790, the unit is now intentionally restricted to specific container/codec combinations.

The S790 is an awesome Blu-Ray/DVD player but we don't need to rationalize it's artificial DLNA limitations.
post #2148 of 3484
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluechunks View Post

I 100% disagree.

As an example, try out an Oppo BDP-93 or 103 (or any one of several current dedicated media players) that will play nearly every known container/codec combination. In the case of the S790, the unit is now intentionally restricted to specific container/codec combinations.

The S790 is an awesome Blu-Ray/DVD player but we don't need to rationalize it's artificial DLNA limitations.

Please provide details of container / codec that worked before the firmware update that now does not.
post #2149 of 3484
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluechunks View Post

I 100% disagree.

As an example, try out an Oppo BDP-93 or 103 (or any one of several current dedicated media players) that will play nearly every known container/codec combination. In the case of the S790, the unit is now intentionally restricted to specific container/codec combinations.

The S790 is an awesome Blu-Ray/DVD player but we don't need to rationalize it's artificial DLNA limitations.

I'm sorry, I'm not really following you. Why do I need to try another BDP or Media streamer? For what purpose? I'm not the one thats having problems playing files via DLNA on the S790.

Again, nothing changed in terms of playback support. It plays the same containers and codec after the update as it did before when the DLNA server is configured for this player. You keep insisting its broken and it won't play youre files, but don't explain what the specific problem is? Are you absolutely sure the files were playing before the firmware update now no longer play? Did you make the appropriate changes on your DLNA server.
post #2150 of 3484
Quote:
Originally Posted by apw2607 View Post

Yea, not sure what happened, Meant to answer your subtitle shift question (Above ^)

I thought it was about the subs ;-) Thanks for the response. Maybe Sony wil come with a firmware update.
post #2151 of 3484

Sony BDP-S790

Hi
A question about HD sound output. Would it be better for the Sony to decode or should I let my old Denon 1909 do the decoding?
Thanks
post #2152 of 3484
Quote:
Originally Posted by apw2607 View Post

Again, nothing changed in terms of playback support.

Yes it has.
Quote:
Originally Posted by apw2607 View Post

It plays the same containers and codec after the update as it did before when the DLNA server is configured for this player.

Either no it doesn't, or else it now requires a transcoding prior to playback.
Quote:
Originally Posted by apw2607 View Post

You keep insisting its broken and it won't play youre files, but don't explain what the specific problem is?

Yes I have.
Quote:
Originally Posted by apw2607 View Post

Are you absolutely sure the files were playing before the firmware update now no longer play?

Yes I am.
Quote:
Originally Posted by apw2607 View Post

Did you make the appropriate changes on your DLNA server.

No I did not because the server is not configurable. As explained previously.

If someone will tell me how to extract the container information I will post it up here and you can see for yourself the type that is no longer supported.
post #2153 of 3484
Quote:
Originally Posted by apw2607 View Post

I'm sorry, I'm not really following you. Why do I need to try another BDP or Media streamer? For what purpose? I'm not the one thats having problems playing files via DLNA on the S790.
I thought you might like to see how great DLNA can work without having to play around with work-arounds (re-muxing, transcoding, ect...) on the server.
Quote:
Originally Posted by apw2607 View Post

Again, nothing changed in terms of playback support. It plays the same containers and codec after the update as it did before when the DLNA server is configured for this player.
Huh? At this point I'm unfortunately assuming you are not fully comprehending what is happening on the DLNA server if one has to use a specific profile to make things work.

Let's backtrack....

1) Things worked natively (MKV via DLNA)
2) Now they don't

This unfortunately is not a surprise because it was a container that Sony does not officially advertise as an option (via DLNA) in the user manual. What is mildly surprising is the hardware/firmware obviously supports MKV but Sony went out of its way to remove the capability in a later firmware revision. But any way you look at it, the S790 itself is absolutely no longer playing the same containers and codecs after the update as it did prior.

That said, using something like Serviio (with the "Bravia 2012 - US" profile, for example) is a great work-around for "playing" certain container/codec combinations if one has a powerful enough server. Using Serviio the player is no longer playing a MKV but rather Serviio is re-muxing and/or transcoding the MKV into a different container (MPEG) that the player will accept. Depending upon the codecs within, the MKV may (or may not) require transcoding so if one is fortunate enough to have all MKVs encoded in compatible codecs one can skate through with only re-muxing which even low-powered servers can handle.

The filename on the server is still a MKV but the S790 is actually being served a MPEG. This goes way beyond the simplified concept of the way the DLNA server is "configured."

I think this horse has been beaten to death.

Cheers!
Edited by bluechunks - 1/18/13 at 10:09am
post #2154 of 3484
Maybe it is a rather dead horse, but I still don;t know how to fix this issue so I can actually watch my files as I used to frown.gif
post #2155 of 3484
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox-UK View Post

If someone will tell me how to extract the container information I will post it up here and you can see for yourself the type that is no longer supported.
One easy method: if you don't already have it installed on your computer, download the (free) VLC Player.

While playing your media file, within VLC select Window==>Media Information==>Codec Details [This is for the Mac version, I'm sure the Windows or Linux versions have a similar capability]. This will open up a window and you should see multiple codecs listed as the file presumably contains both video and audio tracks.
Edited by bluechunks - 1/18/13 at 9:11am
post #2156 of 3484
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox-UK View Post

Maybe it is a rather dead horse, but I still don;t know how to fix this issue so I can actually watch my files as I used to frown.gif
IMHO, you have several options:

1) Re-mux (or transcode) the actual files into something the player will accept (the supported combinations are on p.44 of the manual) for playback with your existing server

2) Use a more powerful server (perhaps your home PC or laptop) that can re-mux and/or transcode

3) Try different server software (such as Serviio as mentioned in this thread) if that is an option for your platform

4) Connect a drive directly to the player via USB. Everything should still work as only DLNA support should have been the issue.

5) Buy a dedicated Media Player that is not constrained by artificial limitations
post #2157 of 3484
OK so the answer I have found is pretend the 790 is actually a PS3 and use MKV2VOB to convert the video.

from what I have observed, either my machine is borked or else for some god unknown reason Sony have dropped support for H.264/MPEG-4 when encapsulated in an MKV container. MKV2VOB will remux the H.264 stream into something the S790 likes, like an M2TS.

It's ridiculous really. I have no idea why Sony made this change. Maybe they are standardising codexes across devices? Or maybe they dropped support in this firmware release as they did not have a relevant patent license? It's a pain in the posterior, either way, and I wish they had mentioned it in release notes for the firmware.

The only good news is that remuxing is not CPU intensive so there is a remote possibility I may be able to find a work around to get the original files streaming from the DLNA. but seeing as it comes down to Sony dropping one unsupported configuration and so forcing us to use a different unsupported configuration it is all a bit pointless IMO.
Edited by Fox-UK - 1/18/13 at 11:32am
post #2158 of 3484
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluechunks View Post

I thought you might like to see how great DLNA can work without having to play around with work-arounds (re-muxing, transcoding, ect...) on the server.
Huh? At this point I'm unfortunately assuming you are not fully comprehending what is happening on the DLNA server if one has to use a specific profile to make things work.

Let's backtrack....

1) Things worked natively (MKV via DLNA)
2) Now they don't

This unfortunately is not a surprise because it was a container that Sony does not officially advertise as an option (via DLNA) in the user manual. What is mildly surprising is the hardware/firmware obviously supports MKV but Sony went out of its way to remove the capability in a later firmware revision. But any way you look at it, the S790 itself is absolutely no longer playing the same containers and codecs after the update as it did prior.

That said, using something like Serviio (with the "Bravia 2012 - US" profile, for example) is a great work-around for "playing" certain container/codec combinations if one has a powerful enough server. Using Serviio the player is no longer playing a MKV but rather Serviio is re-muxing and/or transcoding the MKV into a different container (MPEG) that the player will accept. Depending upon the codecs within, the MKV may (or may not) require transcoding so if one is fortunate enough to have all MKVs encoded in compatible codecs one can skate through with only re-muxing which even low-powered servers can handle.

The filename on the server is still a MKV but the S790 is actually being served a MPEG. This goes way beyond the simplified concept of the way the DLNA server is "configured."

I think this horse has been beaten to death.

Cheers!

Sir, I am fully aware of how Serviio works, how DLNA works and how the S790 deals with it. You must define a MIME types for the renderer you are using with the Server.

Using the Bravia 2012 profile changes the Mime types that are then interpreted by the renderer (player / S790). Mime types allow the renderer to understand what the file is and what to do with it. All DLNA server have these for the file types it "sends" to the renderer. Whether they can be customized is another matter entirely, but Serviio, Twonky and PS3 media server, all popular DLNA servers allow this.

When you use the Braiva 2012 profile you still turn off trans-coding using the option provided in the GUI. At that point the player is on its own to playback the files, but the profile is still required to ensure the player understands what the file is and how it should play it.

As I have stated already:

Well before the update MKV Mpeg 4 played natively
After the update, it still does. Its not being trans-coded, its playing natively

Before the update MKV VC-1 or Mpeg2 didn't play natively
you had to remux to a M2TS.

After the update, its the same, still need to remux, so M2TS VC-1 and Mpeg2 again play native, without trans-coding.

So ... my point is that when I said nothing has changed, well it hasn't. I do appreciate the Mime settings need to be changed to reflect the changes Sony made to the firmware ... but the ability for the S790 to playback these files natively has not changed.

You can choose to believe what I am saying or not. I dont really care, but other folks reading this, rest assured that the S790, S590, and S390 plays the same MKV files now as it did before Sony did a firmware change in the middle of last year.

I'm a happy S790 (and S590 owner) from the very beginning and I've being using my S790 weekly to playback MKV files successfully.
post #2159 of 3484
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluechunks View Post


The filename on the server is still a MKV but the S790 is actually being served a MPEG. This goes way beyond the simplified concept of the way the DLNA server is "configured."

Cheers!

What are you talking about.

See the light grey icons below the file. Thats' what the renderer, in this case the S790 "thinks" the file is based on the Mime types ......

It is a MKV and it thinks its a MKV

The M2TS ... it thinks its a M2TS

There is no trans-coding going on here.

post #2160 of 3484
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox-UK View Post

Yes it has.
Either no it doesn't, or else it now requires a transcoding prior to playback.
Yes I have.
Yes I am.
No I did not because the server is not configurable. As explained previously.

If someone will tell me how to extract the container information I will post it up here and you can see for yourself the type that is no longer supported.

Fox - UK. The problem you have is that your DLNA server appears to be non configurable.

If you can edit the MIME types for it, this would resolve the issue.

Incidentally the response I was making above was directed at bluechunks, not you.
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