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Official 2012 Sony BDP-S790 Thread - Page 98

post #2911 of 3482
Quote:
Originally Posted by teachsac View Post

You might go back and reread. I never said DD and DTS cannot be carried over optical. I said Lossless audio cannot be carried in over optical in multicahnnel. Doc's post said his receiver was receiving DD and DTS as DD and DTS. He said he was receiving 2.0 channel PCM with TrueHD and DTSMA. That is exactly what it is supposed to do. If you select the player to do the decoding of the lossless track it will be output as 2 channel PCM.

S~

WRONG!!!

My Sony BDP-S350 in our secondary home theater setup - connected to a Yamaha RX-V1 (no hdmi nor lossless audio decoding capabilities).
A blu-ray disc - with 5.1 channel DTS-HD Master audio selected for playback - results in the 5.1 channel "core" lossy DTS audio being sent to the receiver via optical - with resulting 5.1 channel DTS audio playback.
It will only convert that multi-channel lossless DTS audio to pcm 2.0 if I set it to convert DTS to PCM in the setup (something you would do if your receiver has no DTS capabilities).

In the case of the BDP-S790, based on what I am reading in the manual (pg.34) - you must make sure "Dolby Digital/DTS" under "Audio Settings" is set to "bitstream" in order to output the lossy core of a lossless audio track and avoid downconverting to pcm.
Edited by Rich86 - 8/23/13 at 5:21pm
post #2912 of 3482
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich86 View Post

No one is suggesting that an optical or coax audio connection can handle lossless audio.
Your statement that all players convert them to 2 channel pcm under all circumstances is what is in error.
A DTS-MA audio track will result in its lossy DTS core being sent over coax or optical if the receiver is capable of decoding lossy DTS and the player is set to output DTS over that connection. If the receiver is incapable of handling even lossy DTS, then it will receive a 2 channel pcm signal over that connection.
I never said in all circunstances. You're talking player setup. I'm talking specs. Doc is asking for HD audio "I would love it if some friendly soul would try a file with HD audio via USB and piping the sound through an optical cable." and he is using optical. He says when he plays a Blu-ray disc he is getting DTS and DD reported to his AVR. As I said. That is what is supposed to happen. He also says that he is getting 2 channel PCM with TrueHD and DTSMA audio. He has also said he is changing settings within the player which is what he has also said. That is what is supposed to happen. If the player is set to bitstream, the player will out put the DTS core or accompanying DD tracks. If the player is set to PCM, then it will output 2 channel PCM over optical. So BDs are working like they are supposed to. He is trying to play other media types and trying to do things that who knows how those are authored.

S~
post #2913 of 3482
Quote:
Originally Posted by teachsac View Post

I never said in all circunstances. You're talking player setup. I'm talking specs. Doc is asking for HD audio "I would love it if some friendly soul would try a file with HD audio via USB and piping the sound through an optical cable." and he is using optical. He says when he plays a Blu-ray disc he is getting DTS and DD reported to his AVR. As I said. That is what is supposed to happen. He also says that he is getting 2 channel PCM with TrueHD and DTSMA audio. He has also said he is changing settings within the player which is what he has also said. That is what is supposed to happen. If the player is set to bitstream, the player will out put the DTS core or accompanying DD tracks. If the player is set to PCM, then it will output 2 channel PCM over optical. So BDs are working like they are supposed to. He is trying to play other media types and trying to do things that who knows how those are authored.

S~

OK - now I can agree with what you are saying. Thanks.
post #2914 of 3482
The amazon app is now fixed. Dolby digital 5.1 is back
post #2915 of 3482
Nice. I'll have to try it out.

S~
post #2916 of 3482
Wow that got confusing fast.

DTS-HD MA via optical to tuner = DTS (core?)
DD TrueHD via optical to tuner = DD (dunno the bitrate, I hope 640kbps)

Btw, they sound great.

The DD/DTS - BitStream/PCM option does NOT say anything about how Plus, TrueHD or MA are treated.
I'm not convinced it effects anything other than DVD types of audio and possibly only for the optical out.
There is separate "Audio (HDMI)" setting that allows you to send PCM via HDMI.

What I was hoping to see tested was when using OPTICAL output, there may be an issue where MKV files or BD5/9 burns with TrueHD or HD MA start playback as 2 channel stereo regardless of audio format, settings or what the player reports when you hit the 'Display' button.

Starting to play one of these, stopping, toggling the BD Mix option and restarting playback resets the audio and causes appropriate playback.
Sounds like a bug that nobody noticed. Regular DD and DTS tracks are uneffected.

This may be an issue with my player or a firmware issue. I'm hoping to be more definitive when I get back to Sony.
post #2917 of 3482
Quote:
Originally Posted by apw2607 View Post

The amazon app is now fixed. Dolby digital 5.1 is back
Thanks. Definitely works again

S~
post #2918 of 3482
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorM View Post

Wow that got confusing fast.

DTS-HD MA via optical to tuner = DTS (core?)
DD TrueHD via optical to tuner = DD (dunno the bitrate, I hope 640kbps)

Btw, they sound great.

The DD/DTS - BitStream/PCM option does NOT say anything about how Plus, TrueHD or MA are treated.
I'm not convinced it effects anything other than DVD types of audio and possibly only for the optical out.
There is separate "Audio (HDMI)" setting that allows you to send PCM via HDMI.

What I was hoping to see tested was when using OPTICAL output, there may be an issue where MKV files or BD5/9 burns with TrueHD or HD MA start playback as 2 channel stereo regardless of audio format, settings or what the player reports when you hit the 'Display' button.

Starting to play one of these, stopping, toggling the BD Mix option and restarting playback resets the audio and causes appropriate playback.
Sounds like a bug that nobody noticed. Regular DD and DTS tracks are uneffected.

This may be an issue with my player or a firmware issue. I'm hoping to be more definitive when I get back to Sony.
Just some facts here:

Optical/SPDIF is NOT compatible with DTS Master Audio, Dolby True HD, Dolby Digital Plus. They're all newer formats intended for HDMI.

BD players can down mix these codecs to plain old Dolby Digital, or DTS to support older receivers that cannot decode the newer above formats. That would be the core audio the other poster was referencing.

The Blu-ray Association also mandatorily requires that the disc at least carry Dolby Digital or DTS.

The newer less 'lossy' codecs are optional.
post #2919 of 3482
Not to be a jerk about your post CaptainVideoJW, but that is pretty much what I said... and several people before me.

And if your last sentence is true, no studio is bothering to follow Blu ray Association guidelines, unless they count foreign language tracks in DD/DTS.
Most BDs I've looked at recently only have the original language in a lossless format.

Btw, for anyone with an optical cable, a USB stick and a will to bug hunt, I'll even make this easier.
Loads of splash screens, just pick any DTS-HD MA or DD TrueHD file for testing: http://www.demo-world.eu/trailers/high-definition-trailers.php

Copy it to a USB device, plug it in to the s790, play and see what your AV receiver is doing on the optical line.
post #2920 of 3482
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorM View Post

Not to be a jerk about your post CaptainVideoJW, but that is pretty much what I said... and several people before me.

And if your last sentence is true, no studio is bothering to follow Blu ray Association guidelines, unless they count foreign language tracks in DD/DTS.
Most BDs I've looked at recently only have the original language in a lossless format.

Btw, for anyone with an optical cable, a USB stick and a will to bug hunt, I'll even make this easier.
Loads of splash screens, just pick any DTS-HD MA or DD TrueHD file for testing: http://www.demo-world.eu/trailers/high-definition-trailers.php

Copy it to a USB device, plug it in to the s790, play and see what your AV receiver is doing on the optical line.

Keep in mind that the original language in lossless format automatically includes the core lossy audio version also. So a disc with a lossless DTS track is always able to provide the lossy DTS core as well even if not listed anywhere. This is why you can always get a DTS audio track over coax or optical from a title that only indicates a DTS-HDMA track as being available. Same goes for Dolby TrueHD - the core lossy dolby digital track is also in there even if not listed.
post #2921 of 3482
Dolby True HD is not built on a core like DTSMA. There is a separate accompanying DD track that is usually not visible as a choice. It is automatically selected when the player is unable to output the TrueHD track.

S~
post #2922 of 3482
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorM View Post

Not to be a jerk about your post CaptainVideoJW, but that is pretty much what I said... and several people before me.

And if your last sentence is true, no studio is bothering to follow Blu ray Association guidelines, unless they count foreign language tracks in DD/DTS.
Most BDs I've looked at recently only have the original language in a lossless format.

Btw, for anyone with an optical cable, a USB stick and a will to bug hunt, I'll even make this easier.
Loads of splash screens, just pick any DTS-HD MA or DD TrueHD file for testing: http://www.demo-world.eu/trailers/high-definition-trailers.php

Copy it to a USB device, plug it in to the s790, play and see what your AV receiver is doing on the optical line.

I did some extensive testing for you. I will break this into two parts:

Commercial BD
We are all in agreement that commercial BDs are operating as they are supposed to when using optical. When you have the player set to bitstream, your player correctly receives the core DTS and corresponding DD track. When you have the player set to PCM, your receiver gets 2 channel PCM.

Other Media Sources

Here is where the tricky part begins with no guarantees. I downloaded two of the files, One TrueHD and one DTS-MA. I began by testing them on my Oppo. The Oppo was able to play the DTS Core and the TrueHD file did have the accompanying DD track (not a guarantee when you download). Now that I know the files play correctly, I tried the Sony. The Sony would only output 2 channel PCM no matter what settings I changed, toggled through, etc. I was never able to get the core DTS or DD track. This seems like it may be more of a limitation than a bug when using optical. Everything works perfectly over HDMI.

Suggestion

Your Denon has served you well. I used to have one. It just might be time to upgrade. You will have less frustrations trying to accomplish what you want.

S~
post #2923 of 3482
Thanks apw2607 for the heads up on the amazon app working. Testing it right now with Dredd and it's working.
post #2924 of 3482
Quote:
Originally Posted by teachsac View Post

Dolby True HD is not built on a core like DTSMA. There is a separate accompanying DD track that is usually not visible as a choice. It is automatically selected when the player is unable to output the TrueHD track.

S~

Yes - I understood that the dolby digital lossy track was not a "core" like DTS handles it - and thanks for spelling it out so clearly for everyone to better understand.
post #2925 of 3482
@teachsac - Did you start to play one of those files, stop, toggle the BD Audio Mix option (doesn't matter on or off), and then navigate back and resumed the SAME file that you stopped? That worked for me.
post #2926 of 3482
Yeap.

S~
post #2927 of 3482
Quote:
Originally Posted by teachsac View Post

Yeap.

S~
Weird. Well at least it works that way for me.
Hopefully I can get Sony to listen about it being an issue. Still, not a deal breaker, but it is inconvenient.
post #2928 of 3482
Anyone run across this issue using the New YouTube for TV app?

Whenever I play a video that starts with an Ad before it plays, when the actual video starts to play the text "Loading…" flashes in the center of the screen and never goes away throughout the video. A similar text appears when going directly to a video without the Ad, but goes away right at the beginning. Seems like a bug with the Ad inserted path.

I've just been avoiding those videos on the tv, but anyone discover a workaround?
post #2929 of 3482
I'm still new to Blu-rays. Is it really normal that BD subtitles are half the size of DVD subtitles?

I know they are pictures not text, but it strikes me as odd that they are so small. Is this typical or is it just something Sony does?
post #2930 of 3482
I contacted Sony about the media audio issue and some of my suggestions. I was told they are kicking it upstairs. Yup, nothing will happen.

Btw, I tried playing a 720p XviD that I remuxed with subtitles. The playback was jittery.
The interesting discovery was that the original AVI version played smooth... and the subtitles that were a separate file played back!!

I'll have to retest if external subs work for MKV, but the definitely work for AVI.
post #2931 of 3482
Gave up on my current 790. IPSO-Reid wants me to cash in my points before mid September - so cashed in and purchased another New (Newer?) 790. Fast Service - Amazon.ca - Hour later, `It's been shipped!'
Will see if a New (Newer?) 790 will pass the Total Recall 2012 Blu-ray test.
post #2932 of 3482
Quote:
Originally Posted by p5browne View Post

Gave up on my current 790. IPSO-Reid wants me to cash in my points before mid September - so cashed in and purchased another New (Newer?) 790. Fast Service - Amazon.ca - Hour later, `It's been shipped!'
Will see if a New (Newer?) 790 will pass the Total Recall 2012 Blu-ray test.

I'll be interested to see if the Total Recall 2012 Blu-ray plays any better on your new Sony BDP-S790... However, I do have my doubts though. In my opinion, the only way that I believe the playback issues will be finally resolved is either by another firmware update to totally fix the audio dropouts and lip-sync issues on both the theatrical cut and the extended directors cut. Or to do a complete disc re-issue which to this point has only been in the form of the 4k remaster released just recently. I chose to purchase the 4k remaster which I at first thought was faulty but soon I discovered that I needed to set the colour space setting on the Sony to RGB, it plays the movie beautifully and the picture quality is jaw-dropping! The only drawback with the 4k remaster is that it is the theatrical cut only.
post #2933 of 3482
Sony out for the Money? - Extended 4K Version out in time for Christmas?
RGB? So no Auto, 4:2:2, nor 4:4:4?
post #2934 of 3482
Quote:
Originally Posted by p5browne View Post

Sony out for the Money? - Extended 4K Version out in time for Christmas?
RGB? So no Auto, 4:2:2, nor 4:4:4?

No, I tried Auto, 4:2:2 and 4:4:4 and the picture flickered, going through my Yamaha RX-V773 to my Samsung UA55D7000 RGB was the way to go.
post #2935 of 3482
so the amazon app is now fixed? interesting, it still settles on pcm 2.0 for me. I don't get it.mad.gif
post #2936 of 3482
Quote:
Originally Posted by airgas1998 View Post

so the amazon app is now fixed? interesting, it still settles on pcm 2.0 for me. I don't get it.mad.gif

Hi airgas199, double check the player HDMI audio is set to AUTO and not PCM.
post #2937 of 3482
Preliminary observations on the New Sony BDP-S790 just received:
Updated the FW and connected to the Internet without issues.
Ran the Total Recall 2012 Extended Version Scene 8 into Scene 9 with Bitstream - had no dropouts! Will run the whole Movie tonight. If it goes through the whole movie without a hitch, going to assume something has been changed in this model re the Hardware.
post #2938 of 3482
Hmm. Do you have a production date for your unit, p5browne?

Edit: Just checked my recent purchase and see no date. The model number does end with a /BM though.
post #2939 of 3482
I've been having an issue with mine, which I purchased a month ago. If I stop a DVD and change the video settings, and press play again, the video starts and stops, continually hesitating until I power down after removing the disk. Just changing disks doesn't stop the pauses. If I leave everything alone though, it runs without a hitch.
post #2940 of 3482
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zap Branigan View Post

I've been having an issue with mine, which I purchased a month ago. If I stop a DVD and change the video settings, and press play again, the video starts and stops, continually hesitating until I power down after removing the disk. Just changing disks doesn't stop the pauses. If I leave everything alone though, it runs without a hitch.

WHY in the WORLD make Changes.

Mine is almost two years old and I have not made a CHANGE
SINCE DAY-ONE.
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