Official 2012 Sony BDP-S790 Thread - Page 20

Originally Posted by KONICA TECH

If it can make my display look better to my eyes, and sound better to my ears, I want one!
I do not care what SONY is doing to the signal but from what I am reading from
"OWNERS" on this thread I am in for a treat for $249.

Originally Posted by bakerwi

If your eyes tell you it looks better then it looks better and in the end that is all that matters. However, I am not sure about sound better though I think someone has said that it sounds better even though he is bitstreaming the sound.

See you are already being influenced to see a better picture.

Also, as stated in an earlier post I do own this player and it performs well for its intended use, but my eyes are telling me that it is nothing special. So I have to trust my eyes.

Originally Posted by khollister


I agree, except how did your calibrator know the Oppo was the correct one? Was it because he read it somewhere, did he personally measure it, did he take it on faith that the Oppo was reference?

The problem is that most of us do not have a file that was literally the master for a particular blu-ray that we can do a direct comparison with (both by eye and by measurement). The "measurement clan" is, I believe, basing their declaration of reference on standard test patterns that have known content with which to make a comparison with the data stream coming off the BD. The potential problem with that is that actual movie content is far more complex and dynamic, and we actually do not know for sure that there couldn't be other factors in play that might alter the perfect transfer function.

Originally Posted by bakerwi


If your eyes tell you it looks better then it looks better and in the end that is all that matters. However, I am not sure about sound better though I think someone has said that it sounds better even though he is bitstreaming the sound.

See you are already being influenced to see a better picture.

Also, as stated in an earlier post I do own this player and it performs well for its intended use, but my eyes are telling me that it is nothing special. So I have to trust my eyes.

Originally Posted by vegashomes

This is really strange I was eating a Big Mac and watching my new S790 and the Big Mac tasted better than a Kobe steak!!

Originally Posted by vegashomes

This is really strange I was eating a Big Mac and watching my new S790 and the Big Mac tasted better than a Kobe steak!!

Originally Posted by Kris Deering

I find the first thing I do is NEVER go to a thread for a product filled with the accounts of a bunch of people that just spent their money on it. I think that works well for getting a general idea on issues it my have but I don't get much more than that unless I know someone specifically in the thread that I know actually knows what he is talking about. And that represents a fairly small number.

I have not tested this player and for all I know it may be the new holy grail. But considering the claims of its performance vs a player that I have tested personally and know its capabilities, I become very suspect at the claims of improvement given the baseline set from the other player. I've been doing this for a long time and have a decent grasp on the subject and the vibe I'm getting from the comments and the wording used to back them up makes me skeptical at best. Especially considering the LONG history of performance in regards to Sony's players, including some of their newest ones.

Originally Posted by bakerwi

Like I said I was paraphrasing and his comments were after he had completed the calibration for both inputs on my display. Do you want me to list the equipment he used with model numbers?

Originally Posted by Kris Deering


I find the first thing I do is NEVER go to a thread for a product filled with the accounts of a bunch of people that just spent their money on it. I think that works well for getting a general idea on issues it my have but I don't get much more than that unless I know someone specifically in the thread that I know actually knows what he is talking about. And that represents a fairly small number.

I have not tested this player and for all I know it may be the new holy grail. But considering the claims of its performance vs a player that I have tested personally and know its capabilities, I become very suspect at the claims of improvement given the baseline set from the other player. I've been doing this for a long time and have a decent grasp on the subject and the vibe I'm getting from the comments and the wording used to back them up makes me skeptical at best. Especially considering the LONG history of performance in regards to Sony's players, including some of their newest ones.

Originally Posted by apw2607

?

Originally Posted by Smackrabbit


I'm guessing a lot of what Kris is saying (and he'll tell me if I'm wrong) is that the threads get warped in certain directions because:

- People want to be happy with what they bought, and so are more likely to be defensive about it than if they had no interest in it
- Most people buying it and using it likely have a small set of experience and have used 2-4 similar products (say, 3 Blu-ray players) and not 30+ Blu-ray players (I have lost track of how many I've done now)
- Errors in the product come up, and are useful to know to test

It just means the owner threads, for all products, are almost always biased in a certain direction.

Originally Posted by vegashomes

this is really strange i was eating a big mac and watching my new s790 and the big mac tasted better than a kobe steak!!

Originally Posted by apw2607

This forum, reviews on CNET ... wherever are all just data points allowing people to gather information and make decisions if necessary. Nothing more, and should be treated accordingly.

There are two distinctions between a formal review on Cnet, or wherever and this forum. The review is merely a snapshot in time, providing information that was available at the time of the review. It may or may not be out of date. E.g. Older firmware. The forum is a real time source of information. Both have their merits but if you want real life usability and feedback, this forum and amazon reviews, etc. provide better insights. Case in point with the Panasonic BDT-210. If you read the formal home theater reviews you would think its a great Netflix streamer. Actually it's not and is one of the worst Netflix clients out there with its screen black flashing issue.

Given the number of posts and unique reads of these threads, it's clear many people find them of value.

Originally Posted by KONICA TECH

I believe in JOEROD! He has personally helped me before with many of my purchases both by phone and E-Mails. He has been right on for me! Not really interested in test bench results. Thanks JOE.

Originally Posted by marctronixx

i applaud smackrabbit and his posts. they have been very informative.
im not really interested in personal opinions since we all have one, i much prefer bench results so I know what to expect and how (if at all ) i can push settings in these assembly line toys. Thanks CHRIS.

Originally Posted by joerod

Great points. I also find it hard to believe that both of these guys would waste time trying to convince folks that this player is not as good as we think or SEE it is. Seriously?

I am using this player with a 4K display so I want the best 1080p image possible heading to it. Mission accomplished. Sorry it beats out a player that is now going on 2 years old. Especially with Streaming and 3D!

Originally Posted by b curry

That seems like a disparaging remark Joerod.

Chris and Kris have taken the time to explain some of the science behind what people are seeing. They have both qualified their remarks by saying it's ok if you like what you're seeing, but don't confuse it for accuracy and the standards of the technology.

Chris and Kris have a history of publishing objective product reviews based on observation and backed up with bench testing, comparing product to accepted industry standards. For many, perhaps not all, this kind of reviewing has more value than reviews based on "it's what I see" and "I like it". I mean we all know David Copperfield made the Statue of Liberty vanish, therefore, I won't expect to "see" it the next time I'm in New York city. There are videos on YouTube that can prove this, you can "see" it, it's true!

Most ancient cultures have had conceptions of a flat Earth. For centuries, in pre-scientific societies, people could "SEE" a flat Earth and therefore it must be. What I find hard to believe is that in the 21st century there are still people that think the Earth is flat.

Originally Posted by Smackrabbit


The detail ones would be done by eye.

Originally Posted by joerod

... And for the record I have been asked (even recently) to do mag Reviews but my answer is still the same. No.

Originally Posted by joerod

... And if your "I like it" comment is directed towards me let's just say there is a reason why my site is going on 50,000 hits in its short life. Not to mention some other exciting developments I won't get into here. ...

Originally Posted by Brian-HD

Can you explain the above?

Originally Posted by Smackrabbit


For testing sharpening effects, I'd use a combination of multibursts, resolution wedges, and sharpness paterns to see what they are doing. I don't currently have a test pattern that I can read from the Quantum Data with, but I can certainly look into trying to create something of that nature. Creating one is something I'd like to do, it's just a big undertaking when the same can be accomplished with other methods now.

Originally Posted by Smackrabbit

I've not personally attacked anyone, nor am I going to. The only points I was trying to make are:

- Claiming that the 790, or any Blu-ray player, is "better" than something like the Oppo 93 is a totally subjective measure with no objective data to back it up
- Any "enhancements" done by the 790, or any other player, that lead to non-reference data also include drawbacks, be it decreased dynamic range, incorrect colors, a loss of fine detail, or other issues
- You can use display adjustments to do lots of these same adjustments and have smaller negative impacts

All I aim to do in any review is be as objective as possible, though my subjective feeling are always included. If I were to find a Blu-ray player to performed incorrectly to be wonderful, I'd mention it, but I'd also mention that the picture was way off standards and others might not enjoy it. I'm writing a review of the BDP-S590 now, and aside from a couple issues I have with it, it performed very well on the bench tests. However, that just means it performed at the same level as other players that are also reference standard at this point.

Attached are some images that show the issues that these scene modes on Sony players, and every other player, can cause. The stripe at the top is correct, the stripe at the bottom is what the player is doing. If they are identical the players work correctly. You can see from these that the brightness is skewed on these modes (too bright or too dark), and colors are then shifted as well. Hopefully this helps to show the types of issues we are trying to address.

Originally Posted by joerod

Just tap on the 790. I just did from my iPad and it went right to it.

Originally Posted by dpippel

No go. I'm on your review page and the top two panels (S790 and Panny 320) do NOT have live links embedded in them. Screenshot attached.