AVS › AVS Forum › Video Components › Home Theater Computers › Official Ceton Echo Extender Info Thread
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Official Ceton Echo Extender Info Thread - Page 125  

post #3721 of 7721
11/30/12 at 11:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by captain_video View Post

You would think so, but we were informed by Ceton that the units being shipped do not yet have the final firmware and neither do the beta testers. I would assume that it will be distributed in the next few days or so.
FWIW, the beta testing program is still in progress. I'm not sure how this will work but I get the impression that the beta testers will be guinea pigs for new features before the rest of the population. The question remains that if this holds true, how do we update our Echoes without everyone else getting it?

When the second f/w had serious issues, the third f/w was released to a select few echos based on MAC address for initial testing before it went to all the beta testers.

Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #3722 of 7721
11/30/12 at 12:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeonunh View Post

As long as Freescale has started regular production and didn't need to make any revision changes I'm not concerned that these are tagged as prototypes. I'm sure Freescale wouldn't have let the chips into the wild if they had planned more changes. Ceton probably just took what was available on the shelf to hit the delivery date.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeonunh View Post

As long as Freescale has started regular production and didn't need to make any revision changes I'm not concerned that these are tagged as prototypes. I'm sure Freescale wouldn't have let the chips into the wild if they had planned more changes. Ceton probably just took what was available on the shelf to hit the delivery date.
Quote:
Originally Posted by skybolt View Post

+1

Pretty sure they are prototypes as the echo was released to beta testers about 1½ weeks after the i.MX6 was announced to be released by Freescale (Q4 = October 1, correct?). The PC in the product code tends to confirm that but it remains to be known if there really are any changes to the production product.
Edited by Sammy2 - 11/30/12 at 12:28pm
post #3723 of 7721
11/30/12 at 12:25pm
The speeds for the dual are "up to" 1.2Ghz If I told you I had an ivy bridge i7 what speed is that...without the model # you couldn't tell me.

PCIMX6D6AVT10AC

PC - Prototype Sample
IMX6 - Processor
D - Dual (U would be dual lite Q would be quad)
6 - Automotive with VPU, GPU, no EPD
A - -40 to + 125C
VT - lidded (vs not lidded)
10 - Frequency 1Ghz - note if 24Mhz Clock (required for usb) speed is 996 Mhz
A - Real Codec off & no HDCP or DTCP (as oposed to C - real Codec off with hdcp on)
C - rev 1.2

I probably would have opted for the 1.2 GHz consumer version rather than automotive but there may have been other logistics for which chip was used.

{edit: sorry for the late post, my browser skipped page 124 when I was reading... I had meant to post earlier this morning but got called across town came back, read the thread to see if it was posted yet (similar to 8Gb = 1GB) and for some reason it skipped a page.}
Edited by signcarver - 11/30/12 at 1:01pm
post #3724 of 7721
11/30/12 at 12:29pm
Anyone- is there anything in the processor spec that suggests whether or not blu-ray rips should eventually be playable?
post #3725 of 7721
11/30/12 at 12:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by xnappo View Post

Errr - XBMC?! Netflix?! HBO Go?!
xnappo


That's assume we will get some kind of Android market support as well as DRM implementation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

Oh, I never knew that existed because I always thought the whole Google TV concept was lame so I never followed it much. I was too busy configuring an HTPC and optimizing my network to care I guess.

That's exactly my point. Most ppl other than Android hardcores never knew such thing as Q ever existed. Not to mention it was put on pre-order early this year then suspended by Google.
post #3726 of 7721
11/30/12 at 12:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TallWalrus View Post

Anyone- is there anything in the processor spec that suggests whether or not blu-ray rips should eventually be playable?

It supports HDMI 1.4. So in theory in can pass-through all HD audio codecs as well 3D video. Not sure if the GPU is powerful enough for smooth BD rip playback. That part depends a lot on freescale. Ceton probably has very little control on this matter.
post #3727 of 7721
11/30/12 at 12:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TallWalrus View Post

Anyone- is there anything in the processor spec that suggests whether or not blu-ray rips should eventually be playable?

It is capable of up to 1080p60fps video but the audio specs are a bit sketchy.
post #3728 of 7721
11/30/12 at 12:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat121 View Post

It supports HDMI 1.4. So in theory in can pass-through all HD audio codecs as well 3D video. Not sure if the GPU is powerful enough for smooth BD rip playback. That part depends a lot on freescale. Ceton probably has very little control on this matter.

So what we have here is a dual core 996Mhz processor. I think that is more powerfull than the processor in my 2008 Samsung BD-P2500 Blu-ray player but don't know if that matters much. I don't know if playback from a disc is less processor intensive than playback of the same material wrapped up in an mkv, especially if the host machine is opening the wrapper.
post #3729 of 7721
11/30/12 at 12:39pm
As a point of reference, I have a 2009 Patriot Box Office streamer with the Realtek1073 DD+ processor that can play blu-ray rips with up to 7.1 HD Audio over a 10/100 NIC with the Medebo f/w hack. It cost me $60 and does a pretty good job but sometimes it would stutter. It is a little bigger than the Echo but it has room for a 2½" HDD. At one time I had the 1TB Samsung drive in it that is now my RecordedTV drive in my HTPC.

I really think this chip should have the horsepower to do it.
post #3730 of 7721
11/30/12 at 12:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TallWalrus View Post

Anyone- is there anything in the processor spec that suggests whether or not blu-ray rips should eventually be playable?

I guess that depends... Do you mean MKV's or ISO's? I think the SOC manufacturer would need to do something to get ISO's to work. For example the streaming devices that use the Realtec 1186 SOC can play Bluray ISO's because Realtec licensed the proper codec support. I don't think any special would be required for MKV's and the SOC should be more than capable to playback just about anything currently available.
post #3731 of 7721
11/30/12 at 1:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeonunh View Post

I guess that depends... Do you mean MKV's or ISO's? I think the SOC manufacturer would need to do something to get ISO's to work. For example the streaming devices that use the Realtec 1186 SOC can play Bluray ISO's because Realtec licensed the proper codec support. I don't think any special would be required for MKV's and the SOC should be more than capable to playback just about anything currently available.

What?

It comes down to does it support the 1) video codec, 2) audio codec and 3) container.

The Echo supports H.264 audio, although Ceton has never said what bitrate they'll support. Right now the Echo seems to choke around 10mbps, which is well below the blu-ray spec. Blu-rays sometimes use the VC-1 codec. It's not entirely whether Ceton intends to support VC-1. VC-1 is the advanced variant of WMV9, which is supported. I think the Echo has all the licenses and horsepower it needs to handle the video, but it remains to be seen whether they'll make it work.

Audio is probably more of an issue. Most of my blu-rays use DTS audio. Right now DTS isn't supported at all, meaning it won't bitstream it to an AVR and it won't decode it. I'm expecting bitstreaming fairly soon (not that Ceton has said anything specific there), but DTS decoding support is more up in the air. I'm about 90% sure its coming down to a licensing issue. Maybe Ceton doesn't want to pay for it.

Then there's the container issue. This is handled by the PC, not the extender. The extender doesn't see whether a given file is a WTV file, an MKV or an ISO. There's usually not much to license there, at least in the MKV and ISO case (although, there is stuff to license if you want to support blu-ray menus). This is probably going to be the dealbreaker for ISO support- I don't expect to see it. You can get unofficial MKV support through the Shark007 pack, but right now you'd run into problems with the AV decoders.
post #3732 of 7721
11/30/12 at 1:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by reggie14 View Post

... but DTS decoding support is more up in the air. I'm about 90% sure its coming down to a licensing issue. Maybe Ceton doesn't want to pay for it. ...

DTS already anounced that the Echo would support DTS, this is the Engadet post.
So what happend there?

"DTS and Ceton Announce Alliance to Expand into the Connected Home Environment
High-Definition Audio Technology Enhances the In-Home Digital Media Entertainment Experience
2012 NAB Show
Booth #SU7619"

http://www.engadget.com/2012/04/16/cetons-echo-extender-for-media-center-will-be-the-first-to-supp/
post #3733 of 7721
11/30/12 at 1:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by reggie14 View Post

What?
It comes down to does it support the 1) video codec, 2) audio codec and 3) container.
The Echo supports H.264 audio, although Ceton has never said what bitrate they'll support. Right now the Echo seems to choke around 10mbps, which is well below the blu-ray spec. Blu-rays sometimes use the VC-1 codec. It's not entirely whether Ceton intends to support VC-1. VC-1 is the advanced variant of WMV9, which is supported. I think the Echo has all the licenses and horsepower it needs to handle the video, but it remains to be seen whether they'll make it work.
Audio is probably more of an issue. Most of my blu-rays use DTS audio. Right now DTS isn't supported at all, meaning it won't bitstream it to an AVR and it won't decode it. I'm expecting bitstreaming fairly soon (not that Ceton has said anything specific there), but DTS decoding support is more up in the air. I'm about 90% sure its coming down to a licensing issue. Maybe Ceton doesn't want to pay for it.
Then there's the container issue. This is handled by the PC, not the extender. The extender doesn't see whether a given file is a WTV file, an MKV or an ISO. There's usually not much to license there, at least in the MKV and ISO case (although, there is stuff to license if you want to support blu-ray menus). This is probably going to be the dealbreaker for ISO support- I don't expect to see it. You can get unofficial MKV support through the Shark007 pack, but right now you'd run into problems with the AV decoders.

I guess I was thinking more about what the Echo could do outside of MCX. It don't think it will ever handle high bit rate files or ISO's in MCX. Android should be able to do it though. The SOC chip specs state that it can do 50mbps video, so that would be the highest you could go if the software supports it.
post #3734 of 7721
11/30/12 at 1:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by shortcut3d View Post

1) Tested on Comast so I can't speak for Cox

I think he is interested to see if copy-protected H.264 TV show can play correctly. As far as I know currently only Cox offers H.264 programming on certain market with Plus package. Intel's integrated graphics HD1000/2000/3000/4000 has known problem support this kind TV program. Its driver can only do H.264 or copy-protected playback but not both. Not sure if there is any driver update fixes that issue.
post #3735 of 7721
11/30/12 at 1:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat121 View Post

I think he is interested to see if copy-protected H.264 TV show can play correctly. As far as I know currently only Cox offers H.264 programming on certain market with Plus package. Intel's integrated graphics HD1000/2000/3000/4000 has known problem support this kind TV program. Its driver can only do H.264 or copy-protected playback but not both. Not sure if there is any driver update fixes that issue.

Good catch. That is probably exactly what the query was. I think this was discussed weeks ago in the beta forum or tracker but I'd have to hunt for it.
post #3736 of 7721
11/30/12 at 1:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diverge View Post

I did some more digging trying to find the datasheet for the exact SoC in the echo and came across this from one of their datasheets.
Seems the echo is a prototype sample, dual core, Automotive grade and 1.0GHz w/o HDCP.
PCIMX6D6AVT 10AC



The part number that freescale stamped onto the chip was actually wrong,. It is an i.MX 6Dual (full) @1.0GHZ, It would be 10CC as it is consumer grade, not automotive.
post #3737 of 7721
11/30/12 at 1:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by motz2k1 View Post

The part number that freescale stamped onto the chip was actually wrong,. It is an i.MX 6Dual (full) @1.0GHZ, It would be 10CC as it is consumer grade, not automotive.

Or the wrong chip was grabbed out of the bin and soldered to the board. Does this mean that they aren't prototype chips too?
post #3738 of 7721
11/30/12 at 1:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeonunh View Post

I guess that depends... Do you mean MKV's or ISO's? I think the SOC manufacturer would need to do something to get ISO's to work. For example the streaming devices that use the Realtec 1186 SOC can play Bluray ISO's because Realtec licensed the proper codec support. I don't think any special would be required for MKV's and the SOC should be more than capable to playback just about anything currently available.

I would be happy if the Echo could play the same files as the Apple TV 2, let alone the Apple TV 3. My entire library is Blu-ray remux originally to MKV then to h.264 using Handbrake Apple TV 2 or 3 profile. These played back on my iPhone 4, 4S, 5, iPad 2, 3 and now mini. They also play on the Xbox 360 as MCX. It was one format to rule them all for me. I would think the Echo would easily play these files. I uploaded several samples and had my ticket accepted as part of the beta. I also thought 1080i would play and the menus fluid.

On a positive note, I received my New Egg pre-order and setup went well. I really like the Echo WMC plug-in and the options. I remain confident that Ceton will get 1080i to play smooth. I also think we will see better menu performance. I also feel good that we will get 1080p rips to play, but not sure if it will be in my preferred mp4 container or mkv or something else.
post #3739 of 7721
11/30/12 at 1:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

Or the wrong chip was grabbed out of the bin and soldered to the board. Does this mean that they aren't prototype chips too?

No they are the correct chip, like I said the incorrect model number is on them. We work with the manufacturers every day this is why we know this.
post #3740 of 7721
11/30/12 at 1:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by motz2k1 View Post

The part number that freescale stamped onto the chip was actually wrong,. It is an i.MX 6Dual (full) @1.0GHZ, It would be 10CC as it is consumer grade, not automotive.

oh okay. I thought maybe you guys went with automotive grade since it's tested to higher temp and in the echo it doesn't have a heatsink.

edit: and I guess the typo would make sense since 10CC would have HDCP.
post #3741 of 7721
11/30/12 at 1:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

Good catch. That is probably exactly what the query was. I think this was discussed weeks ago in the beta forum or tracker but I'd have to hunt for it.

No need to. I saved a show a while back when there was a free preview weekend for HBO. This copy-protected H.264 show plays fine on Echo with the exception of stuttering (1080i) that we are all so farmiliar with the Echo.
post #3742 of 7721
11/30/12 at 1:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diverge View Post

oh okay. I thought maybe you guys went with automotive grade since it's tested to higher temp and in the echo it doesn't have a heatsink.
edit: and I guess the typo would make sense since 10CC would have HDCP.

Yeah we did tons of heat testing on it over and over and over again especially with the redesign and overall it runs really cool.
post #3743 of 7721
11/30/12 at 2:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcturkey View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by erickotz View Post

Regarding the OP, the OP didn't require a phone call in his ticket so much as demand - he stated (in his initial message to us, so it's not like we had spent days troubleshooting) that he would not work via email, and if he did not get a phone call by the close of business, he would be returning the item to the place of purchase.
If a large group of people begin demanding phone support, we would certainly need to consider offering it, but keep in mind that may result in having to raise prices to be able to pay for it. Alternatively, it might require moving that phone support to an offshore contractor. Right now all Ceton support is handled in the US, and to be quite honest, I'd much rather keep it here than to go with an offshore phone support group.

^^ People who demand phone support amaze me. It's seriously the most inefficient method of technical support that currently exists. Email and online chat are significantly more efficient, both for the company and for the customer. If I have to call up a company for tech support, it's not going to be pleasant - give me options that don't waste my time.

Give that model a try when dealing with Executives and let me know how it works out.
post #3744 of 7721
11/30/12 at 2:12pm
Any chance we can get XBMC natively running on the Echo, with the extender built into XBMC for live tv, rather than Android? smile.gif

Then we'd be able to watch any media and do away with codecs on the host WMC HTPC. It can be compiled for Cortex-A9.
post #3745 of 7721
11/30/12 at 2:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by captain_video View Post

FWIW, I've been in the beta program for the Echo from the beginning. I've had lots of issues with it, but I've seen a marked improvement with each new firmware release. I have network issues with my Echo, but then I've never used an extender that I didn't have network issues with. I can't really point the finger at the Echo when It's happened with other extenders in the past. I've got a situation where I don't know if the problem is Echo-related or a glitch in my network. As such, I've chosen to reserve judgement on the Echo's performance.

If people are having issues with their Echos during the beta test they should be posting them in the beta forums instead or airing their dirty laundry in public. Griping about issues in a beta product as if it was a final production unit is simply unrealistic. Some of you guys are trying to rally the villagers with torches and pitchforks against something that's clearly a work-in-progress. OTOH, I do believe the Echo is being released prematurely and needs further testing and refining. In it's current state I think there are going to be a lot of customer returns unless a firmware update gets released in time with the major bug fixes for retail purchasers to get theirs updated when they first plug it in.

As for customer support, many large companies would do well to learn from Ceton. They've always been there to support their products. I can't recall how many e-mails I've sent to major companies that simply went unanswered. Phone support is a complete waste of time and resouces for everyone. You send an e-mail and wait for a response. Make a phone call and your entire afternoon could be shot waiting for a service rep to talk to.

Your rambling at this point. The Echo was officially released to the public as folks who ordered are confirming delivery. I understand defending brand loyalty but please not blindly.
post #3746 of 7721
11/30/12 at 2:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diverge View Post

Any chance we can get XBMC natively running on the Echo, with the extender built into XBMC for live tv, rather than Android? smile.gif
Then we'd be able to watch any media and do away with codecs on the host WMC HTPC. It can be compiled for Cortex-A9.

You forgot about copy-protected Live/Recorded TV which is the whole point of an extender in WMC to begin with.

Correction. I see what you are saying. If this is doable that would be fantastic. An XBMC streamer so to speak with a plug-in within IT to get to the CopyProtected stuff.
post #3747 of 7721
11/30/12 at 2:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

You forgot about copy-protected Live/Recorded TV which is the whole point of an extender in WMC to begin with.
Correction. I see what you are saying. If this is doable that would be fantastic. An XBMC streamer so to speak with a plug-in within IT to get to the CopyProtected stuff.

yep, you got it now smile.gif
post #3748 of 7721
11/30/12 at 2:55pm
Single boot.. But maybe this can be done w/in android with a fork of XBMC too?
post #3749 of 7721
11/30/12 at 3:03pm
Doesn't this thing need secure boot to be an extender? I have asked but I gotta believe its just getting android app support and not android. Interested in a clarification on the topic.
post #3750 of 7721
11/30/12 at 3:04pm
I doubt MS will allow that to happen. Remember any MCX stuff needs to be certified by MS.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Home Theater Computers
This thread is locked  

Gear mentioned in this thread:

AVS › AVS Forum › Video Components › Home Theater Computers › Official Ceton Echo Extender Info Thread