Official Ceton Echo Extender Info Thread - Page 18

My thoughts...

WMC is an add in to windows 8 so micrsoft will have to at least support the guide through the end of life for that product. Considering that windows 8 hasn't even been launched yet we should have at least ten years of support for WMC.

The exact details aren't known yet. Most likely it will be included in Win 8 Home, but as an add on to Pro since the majority of Pro owners are business which don't need/want WMC. Thus M$ saves a lot of $ in licensing costs by not including it as standard in the Pro version.

It's still conjecture that it will be included in Win 8 Home.

I read last week from a credible media outlet (can't remember which one) that WMC will be a "for purchase " add-on option in Windows 8.

I guess in a lot of ways this makes sense since WMC is not widely used by the general public. Creating an embedded version and making an add-on option is the way to go.

Back to the Echo I have had an old Xbox 360 given to me and have been experimenting on how to make a simple fluid household system that just works. I have to say the 360 has far too many shortcomings as an extender to be fully usable for me. We really need an extender designed from the ground up as an extender using powerful yet low powered modern hardware.

No, Microsoft confirmed that it will be an add-on to all versions of Windows 8. Look at their blog post on this.

Unfortunately, the way Microsoft is describing it, it will be an upgrade to Windows 8 Pro. If you have Windows 8 Pro, then you just need to buy the "Windows 8 Media Center Pack." They haven't announced pricing, but a Microsoft executive was previously quoted as saying they're hoping for the "single digits."

But, if you have the standard version of Windows 8, you'll need to buy the "Pro Pack." Since this will give also give you all the features of Windows 8 Pro, expect this to cost quite a bit more than just the media center pack.

That seems a little weird to me. I don't understand why they didn't just make it an add-on for ether version of Windows 8. Few home users have a need for the Pro features. It's not a big deal to me- I've always gotten Pro licenses, so I'll get upgrades to Pro anyway. It just seems weird.

In general, though, I'm more concerned that the lack of updates to Media Center shows a lack of interest on Microsoft's part.

Like stanger89, I'm anxiously awaiting announcements on the Echo's media playback capabilities. It's very important to me that it be able to play back DVD and blu-ray rips, preferably both in folders and MKVs (and please don't forget about PGS subtitle support). My Sage boxes handle these formats now, and I don't want to have to re-encode everything. That's probably a deal-breaker for me, otherwise I already would have purchased some Xbox360s for extenders.

Bingo. Sad but true. Nowadays because of cinavia it's better to have a player that is not licensed.

Ideally, the Echo will playback all the codecs stored within a 'blu-ray mkv' ripped with makemkv.

if it was licenced to play bluray ,couldn't there just be a plugin that mounted an iso? then once mounted, it would appear to be a standard bluray disk.

another idea would be if it was licensed to stream real bluray disks inserted into the Q, then it could just be the same as if the Q was mounting the ISO and streaming it.

but the Q will be able to play bluray. it is also able to stream content to stream content to the echo. It could be implemented to mount iso's and then stream bluray content through third party plugins.

so, we do video editing for work. when exporting out for discs, I often export out to iso and verify things work before burning it. Any bluray software will play it.

The catch-22 here is this box will run a version of windows media center (which can already do this) but at the same time it is an embedded environment, which limits the ability to modify the abilities through plugins or OS modifications.

Personally, I think the smart move is for Ceton not to build the hardware to be capable of playing blurays, but the software not implement this feature - avoid the legal ramifications. But at the same time, make the app/plugin architecture such that through of couple of things (anydvd, powerdvd/total media) it becomes irrelevant that full bluray iso streaming support isn't supported.

then just don't block others from enabling the echo from doing what Ceton doesn't want to support legally.

Honestly, I wouldn't mind terribly if you had to rip everything to mkv. I already do that with my blu-rays, so as long as it can play back the codecs in blu-ray (and play back the subtitles).

It's a bit more important to me to be able to play back DVDs in folder structures, preferably with menus. I don't think there are the same licensing problems there. Blu-ray folder support would be kind of nice- even accepting that it wouldn't have menu support- but it isn't that important to me.

Dune and Popcorn Hour both do it.

In any case, who cares about menu support. Just make sure it has complete support for all forced subtitles found in Blu Ray folder structures!

-Suntan

I do.

Edit:
I suppose I should have added this. If I am going to go to all of the process of rippping blurays, then I would perfer having everything. Where does it end if you can't? Now it is menu.... and 3D.... who knows what it will be next. I like having the entire disk ripped. Call me crazy.

Obviously the question was rhetorical. But I'm very glad to hear that you care about them.

The point I was trying to convey is that if menus are not possible (or at least not worth all the added hassles and loopholes) at least make it possible to playback ripped video in its entirety.

-Suntan

I suppose I agree that if there was no other way, then mkv's are better then nothing. But considering that the media center is able to play ISOs and DVDs ripped to folders (albeit with third party apps), I would hope that this would also be possible with the Q & echo.

I have been using my movies with windows media center and an xbox as an extender. All the movies are ripped as folder for DVDs and ISOs for blurays. We have a second media center hooked up to the one tv that the xbox just to be able to play the ISOs.

I know, many people have said I should convert them all to MKVs. But I resist that for what I see as a changing landscape. Seems like when ever I go through the effort to convert everything to a format , there is always a new one in the wings. Then I end up either having to rerip everything or keep the master files on a drive. Currently My bluray rips equals about 11TB. These are all disks that I have. Paid for every single one. I look at ripping as a convince rather then having to always decide what to watch at the shelf as opposed to on the screen. Plus with 4 kids..... I look at it as a HUGE insurance policy. Kids=damaged media.

In my unprofessional opinion, the ONLY reason that the xbox can't play the ISOs is that microsoft never licensed the bluray spec for xbox. They backed HD-DVD and never bothered to pay the royalties to jump ship. If they had, then I would bet that things would work just fine.... without them having to deal with cinivia.



Ultimately, this whole thing is a scam. People who are trying to be legal and have a better experience get screwed. People who don't care about legality and want to bypass it all, none of this cinivia crap matters. HDMI is the poster child of this whole thing. It is such a joke the lengths companies will go to to supposively locked down content and throw ridiculous DRM on it.

Say what you like about Steve Jobs, but the man said it best - the alternative is piracy. And they still just don't get it. Create an infastructure that is fair and you will win more then you will lose. Yes people will still pirate. No there is nothing you can do to stop them. But more often then not, people pirate because it is far more convenient.

How many people download MP3s of music that they already own on some other form (cd, cassette, vinyl, 8-track, etc). They download because either they don't know how or don't want to deal with the hassle of converting their music. It is no different with any other type of media.

The whole thing is based on one thing, and one thing only.... MONEY. Media companies entire business model is based on charging you for every single format, no matter what previous format you own it in. Ultimately, they want to eliminate the concept of people buying a form of physical media and move to a completely pay-per-view system. Want to watch it? Pay $5. Want to watch it again? Pay another $5. Already watched it a dozen times and you still want to watch it again..... yep, another $5.

This is precisely why I refuse to sign up for the ultraviolet streaming service. I see it as the precursor for a much more sinister plan.


Sorry, it has been a long day and this was just the form I took it all out on.

but how does that affect bluray software to watch movies on a computer?

No problem! You're right and this is a good place to vent!!

Basically, I think there's three possible levels of support for blu-ray:

1. Full support of ISO and/or folder structures with menus.
2. Playback support for ISO/folder structures, but no menus (so, navigation by title number only, probably).
3. Support for codecs used in blu-rays if used in other containers (e.g., MKV, MP4).

I'd love menu support too, but realistically I don't see it happening. As others pointed out, it seems like the licensing requirements will preclude that from happening. If the Echo needs to support and enforce Cinavia, then you're ripped blu-rays aren't going to play on the Echo. I don't think there is any IP preventing a company from selling a product that plays back blu-ray folder structures (and there certainly isn't anything preventing them from playing back MKVs).

Assuming blu-ray menus are out of the question, it would still be nice if the Echo could play back the folder structures, and have some sort of rudimentary method for navigating to the different titles on the disc.

I could deal with just codec support. I don't think the Sage HD200 extenders initially support blu-ray folder structures, and they obviously never support menus, so my blu-rays are already in MKV format. My DVD rips are in folder structures, and particularly in the case of TV series it was awfully nice to have DVD menu support (since some DVDs, like The Office TV series, make it really hard to tell what title number corresponds to what episode). But even there, DVD menus (or even DVD folder support) aren't deal-breakers for me. I'd be pretty annoyed, but I'd just re-rip my DVDs.

That is a statement of fact. Where did you get the information?

Oh.. My bad. And I've read that page before..

Ok, so it can legally play blu-ray. My question is could it then stream that legal bluray content from the Q to the echo?

That quote from Ceton doesn't mean that it's going to be literally a standalone Bluray player inside the box. It could still be using a software player, such as Arcsoft TMT, and satisfy their claim of being able to do all those functions. Standalone Bluray players and computers running software players do fall under slightly different sets of rules. Oddly the software players seem to have slightly less restrictions, so hoping for a software player is the best bet to have the flexibility of playing ISO's and/or folder structures.