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Official Ceton Echo Extender Info Thread - Page 185  

post #5521 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roginator View Post

Day 2 of my new XBox vs. Echo shootout.

On the XBox I started watching a recent episode of Continuum on SyFy when I noticed occasional interlacing combing problems and picture breakup on fast-motion scenes. So I hooked up my netbook which works relatively perfectly playing back under Media Center.

The same glitches appeared!

So apparently not all video problems can be attributed to extenders. Maybe my cable provider isn't allocating much bandwidth to SyFy.

Otherwise, the XBox is still working well.

Cable bandwidth limitations can cause all kinds of issues in HD picture quality from pixelation to macroblocking. Instead of upgrading the hardware required for high bit rate HD, most cable companies use a varying compression scheme to force up to three hd channels into one analog channel. I see these issues all the time with Comcast.
post #5522 of 7721
All cable companies re-compress the videos. Some compress more than others. Comcast is probably the worst. A few times I saw Comcast in action in my friend's house, I can barely call it HD. But those compression artifacts are easy to understand than the de-interlacing issues of Echo. The latest beta seems to have improved de-interlacing a lot.

There is nothing you can do with your cable company. To them, badwidth is the main profit center if they can fit in more channels on the existing cable plant. It doesn't help that a lot of places they are still forced to carry basic channels in analog. Those a few analog channels take away majority of the cable bandwidth. For every analog (SD) channel, they can carry 6 SD digital channels or 2 (or 3 as mentioned above) HD digital channels.
post #5523 of 7721
Yeah..the more I look at it the more i think there's something else going on. Almost like the video is smearing.
post #5524 of 7721
I suppose by not using SDV Comcast has to compress their signal more than others?
post #5525 of 7721
I moved my echo to the 720p kitchen TV today. Looking pretty good thus far. It crashed a couple times trying to play music over my network but it may have had more to do with my shares than anything. I fixed my shares on my PC and it seems to be doing quite well.
Edited by Sammy2 - 2/2/13 at 12:33pm
post #5526 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

I suppose by not using SDV Comcast has to compress their signal more than others?
It is not mutually exclusive. There is no such thing as too much bandwidth. Cable plants all have a fixed bandwidth (from the old 750Mhz, 850Mhz to the new 1Ghz) that is the physical limited of what they can do with today's technology. As ppl crave for more entertainment, e.g. more channels, they have to do all they can to free up bandwidth. Some comcast markets actuall eliminated all the analog channels. I think FIOS is currently the only provider does not use SDV (its fiber line has more bandwidth than coax cable). I'm not 100% certain but I believe some Comcast markets do deploy SDV.
post #5527 of 7721
Earlier in the Echo's development, I read that some codec installations were breaking live TV and copy-protected recordings. Right now, live TV and recorded TV work pretty well for me. I'd like to start ripping some DVDs to my server, and access them through WMC and my two Echos. I do NOT want to do anything that will break what I already have.

I have read through the thread here and on The Green Button, and I see much advice, but much of it deals with prior versions of Echo firmware. I have not yet found a guide for recent firmware. Can anyone point me to one? Thanks.
post #5528 of 7721
Okay. I've had a few crashes now.

I have a Cat5e patch cable that is about 50' long going from my router and/or the switch next to my router and the echo has crashed several times while thumbing through the mini guide. I did the network test and I'm getting a strong signal, one way above that required for HDTV on the network test in settings > extender > network tuner.

Ugh!

Picture looks great and it sounds good though...
post #5529 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

Okay. I've had a few crashes now.

I have a Cat5e patch cable that is about 50' long going from my router and/or the switch next to my router and the echo has crashed several times while thumbing through the mini guide. I did the network test and I'm getting a strong signal, one way above that required for HDTV on the network test in settings > extender > network tuner.

Ugh!

Picture looks great and it sounds good though...

Okay. Testing continues but I'm not getting crashes setting the echo to 720p. I suspect it may have been an issue with the echo set to Native and the output being 1080p going to a 720p TV as each crash was when tuning a 1080i channel. It is going well now... Testing continues.
post #5530 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsurkin View Post

Earlier in the Echo's development, I read that some codec installations were breaking live TV and copy-protected recordings. Right now, live TV and recorded TV work pretty well for me. I'd like to start ripping some DVDs to my server, and access them through WMC and my two Echos. I do NOT want to do anything that will break what I already have.

I have read through the thread here and on The Green Button, and I see much advice, but much of it deals with prior versions of Echo firmware. I have not yet found a guide for recent firmware. Can anyone point me to one? Thanks.

Before doing all that you might want to wait to see what the future holds for mkv playback. I'd hate to see you go with less quality than you need too. I'm not going to do it because I have several hundred rips, mainly Blu-ray rips, that I am not going to re-encode or sacrifice quality on.
post #5531 of 7721
Did a test last night. Programmed all the commands for the Echo/WMC 2) into my Harmony 880. Turned on TV1 and set to WMC. Ran a bunch of commands into the echo and saw no disturbance with TV1 on WMC. BUT if I shot the commands standing (this is aloft with a 4' wing wall), the TV power commands conflict, that is one entry hits both sets. Looks like sittign down I will get away with this, though.
post #5532 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by sgbroimp View Post

Did a test last night. Programmed all the commands for the Echo/WMC 2) into my Harmony 880. Turned on TV1 and set to WMC. Ran a bunch of commands into the echo and saw no disturbance with TV1 on WMC. BUT if I shot the commands standing (this is aloft with a 4' wing wall), the TV power commands conflict, that is one entry hits both sets. Looks like sittign down I will get away with this, though.

Your TV's must have good receivers or their location is such that something is bouncing off the wall or ceiling and getting to it.
post #5533 of 7721
No lock ups since changing to 720p to match the TV.
post #5534 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

Okay. I've had a few crashes now.

I have a Cat5e patch cable that is about 50' long going from my router and/or the switch next to my router and the echo has crashed several times while thumbing through the mini guide. I did the network test and I'm getting a strong signal, one way above that required for HDTV on the network test in settings > extender > network tuner.

Ugh!

Picture looks great and it sounds good though...

Okay. Testing continues but I'm not getting crashes setting the echo to 720p. I suspect it may have been an issue with the echo set to Native and the output being 1080p going to a 720p TV as each crash was when tuning a 1080i channel. It is going well now... Testing continues.

that sounds like the echo is not really doing native then? If so, then something in the chain is telling the echo that "native" of the display is 1080p. The way I understood the echo native setting was that it was the native of the display device not the native of the source.
post #5535 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsurkin View Post

Earlier in the Echo's development, I read that some codec installations were breaking live TV and copy-protected recordings. Right now, live TV and recorded TV work pretty well for me. I'd like to start ripping some DVDs to my server, and access them through WMC and my two Echos. I do NOT want to do anything that will break what I already have.

I have read through the thread here and on The Green Button, and I see much advice, but much of it deals with prior versions of Echo firmware. I have not yet found a guide for recent firmware. Can anyone point me to one? Thanks.

if they are DVD's then saving to m2ts should be pretty good. If I recall MOTZ gave some decent advice over on TGB as to how he had all of his content ripped that allowed echo to play them. IIRC he was using no codecs and just conforming to the MS recommendations for content playback.
post #5536 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by mariob33 View Post

that sounds like the echo is not really doing native then? If so, then something in the chain is telling the echo that "native" of the display is 1080p. The way I understood the echo native setting was that it was the native of the display device not the native of the source.

I thought it is the native of the source?

Regardless, most TVs can accept 1080p even if it is 720p set. Echo shouldn't crash.
post #5537 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by mariob33 View Post

if they are DVD's then saving to m2ts should be pretty good. If I recall MOTZ gave some decent advice over on TGB as to how he had all of his content ripped that allowed echo to play them. IIRC he was using no codecs and just conforming to the MS recommendations for content playback.

Yes, m2ts doesn't require any codecs for Win7. But Echo still chokes on high bit rate m2ts last time I tested while mkv (with DIVX codec installed) works fine.
post #5538 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by mariob33 View Post

that sounds like the echo is not really doing native then? If so, then something in the chain is telling the echo that "native" of the display is 1080p. The way I understood the echo native setting was that it was the native of the display device not the native of the source.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat121 View Post

I thought it is the native of the source?

Regardless, most TVs can accept 1080p even if it is 720p set. Echo shouldn't crash.

The echo still doesn't output 1080i on a 1080i source. In native it puts out 1080p for 1080i and 720p for 720p. In 1080p it puts out 1080p for everything and in 720p it puts out 720p for everything.

IDK but putting the echo in 720p to match the TV has brought stability even though the TV did say 1080p when the echo was in native mode and the source was 1080i. I think the switching of resolution may have caused some sort of mismatch when the echo was looking at the EDID of the TV but I really don't know for sure. All I know is it has been stable for some time in 720p mode for this 720p TV in my kitchen. It is technically a 1366x768 TV.. Toshiba 19SL410U 19-Inch LED to be exact. This is the first time the echo has been connected to that TV and there is no AVR so maybe it needed to get used to its new environs too??
post #5539 of 7721
I put it back to native and it is working well again. The problem with native is that this TV takes a little bit of time to switch so it might not be a bad thing to have the echo de-interlace from 1080i to 720p. We're talking about a 19" TV for watching the news or whatever while in the kitchen. I'm not seeing any de-interlacing issues at all with the echo on this TV either.
post #5540 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat121 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by mariob33 View Post

if they are DVD's then saving to m2ts should be pretty good. If I recall MOTZ gave some decent advice over on TGB as to how he had all of his content ripped that allowed echo to play them. IIRC he was using no codecs and just conforming to the MS recommendations for content playback.

Yes, m2ts doesn't require any codecs for Win7. But Echo still chokes on high bit rate m2ts last time I tested while mkv (with DIVX codec installed) works fine.

I was assuming when the OP said DVD they did not mean anything HD. iirc a typical SD or DVD would come in under 12 MBits.
post #5541 of 7721
Should be able to rip it to mkv and play it back no problem with the right splitter on the host HTPC.
post #5542 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by sgbroimp View Post

Be sure to interrogate your pets. We once had a Siamese cat that took my aunt's wallet out of her handbag. She was two hours away at a Mass Pike gas station when she discovered the problem! Another time he took a watch up a floor and hid it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken.F View Post

I lost a remote once. I found it several days later in the freezer. Cocktails were involved.

No pets (or children or roommates) so this is totally my fault. Pretty certain I was sober when I lost it, as any TV watching when I am not sober typically happens at my PC (which doesn't have a remote). Most likely I was carrying it and got distracted, then set it down.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

I suppose by not using SDV Comcast has to compress their signal more than others?

Comcast shut off analog, so they reclaimed bandwidth (I wish more providers would kill analog) there and don't really need SDV. If a provider got rid of all analog channels, their plant (assuming built to 860MHz) would have enough bandwidth for 405 channels at just a hair under 13mbps/channel. Data services, like Cable Modem, would eat 6-12, but still that's a lot of channels.
post #5543 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by erickotz View Post


No pets (or children or roommates) so this is totally my fault. Pretty certain I was sober when I lost it, as any TV watching when I am not sober typically happens at my PC (which doesn't have a remote). Most likely I was carrying it and got distracted, then set it down.
Comcast shut off analog, so they reclaimed bandwidth (I wish more providers would kill analog) there and don't really need SDV. If a provider got rid of all analog channels, their plant (assuming built to 860MHz) would have enough bandwidth for 405 channels at just a hair under 13mbps/channel. Data services, like Cable Modem, would eat 6-12, but still that's a lot of channels.

With the new FCC rule change, I bet hybrid providers will start to move that way. I hope they do anyways.

http://www.fcc.gov/guides/advisory-analog-cable-television-subscribers
post #5544 of 7721
New bug but I think it was reported over at TGB. I put it in the tracker as Bug # 551.

Basically this is it: Hit recorded TV and select something to play. The Windows spinner wheel comes up and stays for maybe a minute then the echo reboots. Using 2013.129 f/w.
post #5545 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by erickotz View Post

Comcast shut off analog, so they reclaimed bandwidth (I wish more providers would kill analog) there and don't really need SDV. If a provider got rid of all analog channels, their plant (assuming built to 860MHz) would have enough bandwidth for 405 channels at just a hair under 13mbps/channel. Data services, like Cable Modem, would eat 6-12, but still that's a lot of channels.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tjgertge View Post

With the new FCC rule change, I bet hybrid providers will start to move that way. I hope they do anyways.

http://www.fcc.gov/guides/advisory-analog-cable-television-subscribers

The reality is that Comcast is still sending out low quality HD using the additional bandwidth for other services such as their own unlimited in network streaming service via the Xbox 360, VOIP, Home Alarm systems etc. all at increasing costs with additional fees and poor service. Since all t.v.s now require a STB, as of Jan 1, Comcast is now charging a rental fee on all boxes in addition to the package fee. The STB's are so bad, they are beyond comprehension. There is a reason Comcast is one the lowest rated and most complained about companies in America. Be careful what you wish for.
post #5546 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

I did notice this last night but it was very brief. I'm not sure if it is my HDHR Prime or maybe even the signal from Charter but I haven't noticed on my HTPC which probably points to the echo.

For me it's totally the Echo, I put another extender (HP) i the bedroom and it works flawlessly, for tv anyway. This has shon up in the past two FW releases. The rebooting has always been there, veri in frequent, but stll there.
post #5547 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

No lock ups since changing to 720p to match the TV.

There still seems to be issues with 1080x output. I also use native and most of the channels are 1080i. So it appears there is some more work ot be done.
post #5548 of 7721
So I created a new activity on my harmony instead of using the same profile as my htpc. Turned the sensitivity down a step and now the echo responds correctly to button presses.
post #5549 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

No lock ups since changing to 720p to match the TV.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skybolt View Post

There still seems to be issues with 1080x output. I also use native and most of the channels are 1080i. So it appears there is some more work ot be done.

I have it on native now and it seems to be working fine on the 720p TV.
post #5550 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by skybolt View Post

Is anyone else having issues with lockups?

The past two FW release have caused freezes on live tv, fora few seconds and then back to normal for a little while then freeze etc.
I am also still getting random reboots, both during playback and just sitting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

I did notice this last night but it was very brief. I'm not sure if it is my HDHR Prime or maybe even the signal from Charter but I haven't noticed on my HTPC which probably points to the echo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skybolt View Post

or me it's totally the Echo, I put another extender (HP) i the bedroom and it works flawlessly, for tv anyway. This has shown up in the past two FW releases. The rebooting has always been there, veri in frequent, but still there.

I haven't had random reboots except for the spinner from RecordedTV that I've noticed lately and reported in the tracker but today, RecordedTV is working just fine?

I have also had a few this is not an HDCP compliant TV error with the TV in the kitchen but this TV is HDCP compliant. From the owner's manual:
Quote:
The HDMI input on your TV receives digital audio and uncompressed digital video from an HDMI source device, or uncompressed digital video from a DVI (Digital Visual Interface) source device. his input is designed to accept HDCP (High-Bandwidth Digital-Content Protection) program material in digital form from EIA/CEA-861-D-compliant[1] consumer electronic devices (such as a set-top box or DVD player with HDMI or DVI output).
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