Official Ceton Echo Extender Info Thread - Page 195

Originally Posted by skybolt 

Ok, bad choice of words. And yes MCE buddy can move files around, but can only be played fron the original recording device. The white paper for DTCP implies you can move DTCP files and play on another PC/Device, at least it looks that way, that is what I was trying to imply. Unless that implies only an extender?

Originally Posted by Foxbat121 

I believe that requirement will be determined by CableLabs, not DTCP alone. Copy-once means copy only once, not many times. DTCP must honor that.

Originally Posted by xnappo 

DTCP-IP is not a copy, it is a stream.

xnappo

Originally Posted by Foxbat121 

There is no real advantage of DTCP vs PlayReady other than who you have to pay license to and who get more industry wide support (DTCP).

Originally Posted by Sammy2 

There were issues with Skip >| and |< in the 129 f/w that were fixed in the 206 f/w. You are the first one reporting this. You might want to open a ticket with ceton.

Originally Posted by xnappo 

Hey - I agree there. That is the key. Microsoft has its own agenda, which is why it is good to have a broadly industry supported alternative.

xnappo

Originally Posted by Foxbat121 

In the context we are discussing above, it refers to the files persisted on the HDD and whether or not it can be moved or replicated to another device/PC. There is no real advantage of DTCP vs PlayReady other than who you have to pay license to and who get more industry wide support (DTCP).

Saying DTCP is just a stream is also misleading. It is an entire system from stream to storage and playback. Only when the entire content path is secured, will you be certified to use DTCP.

Approvals for Persistent Storage and Digital Output Reprotection Technology

DTLA has granted approval to the following technologies for the persistent protected storage of content that has been delivered using DTCP, pursuant to Appendix B, Part 1, Section 2.2.1 of the Adopter Agreement:

1.1 D-VHS, licensed by Victor Company of Japan (JVC)
1.2 Content Protection for Recordable Media (CPRM), licensed by 4C Entity, LLC
1.3 CPS for BD-RE, licensed by Matsushita Electric Industrial Co., Ltd., Koninklijke Philips Electronics, N.V. and Sony Corporation
1.4 Vidi Content Protection System ("VCPS" or "Vidi"), licensed by Koninklijke Philips Electronics, N.V.
1.5 MG-R (SVR) for Hi-MD, licensed by Sony Corporation
1.6 MG-R (SVR) for MemoryStick Pro, licensed by Sony Corporation
1.7 Windows Media DRM 10 and future versions, licensed by Microsoft Corporation (provisionally approved)
1.8 Security Architecture For Intelligent Attachment (SAFIA), licensed by Hitachi Ltd., Pioneer Corporation, Sanyo Electric Co. Ltd. and Sharp Corporation
1.9 Advanced Access Content System (AACS), licensed by Advanced Access Content System Licensing Administrator, LLC
1.10 Marlin Technology for Import, licensed by Marlin Trust Management Organization. (Note: Until further notice, DTCP content marked with the Analog Sunset Token or the Digital Only Token may not be passed to Marlin Technology for Import)
1.11 IPRM-HN, licensed by Motorola Mobility, Inc.
1.12 Nagra Media PRM, licensed by Nagravision, SA.
1.13 Sony MG-R(SVR) for EMPR, licensed by Sony Corporation.


DTLA has granted approval to the following technology as a protected digital output, pursuant to Appendix B, Part 1, Section 4.4.4 of the Adopter Agreement:

2.1 High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection (HDCP), licensed by the Digital Content Protection, LLC
2.2 Windows Media DRM 10 and future versions, licensed by Microsoft Corporation (provisionally approved)
2.3 Pro:Idiom, limited to use in closed hotel environments, licensed by Zenith Electronic Corporation
2.4 Verimatrix VCAS Content Protection System, limited to use in closed hotel environments, licensed by Verimatrix, Inc.
2.5 Samsung Conditional Access System (SCAS), limited to use in hospitality TV services, licensed by Samsung Corporation.

Hey - I agree there. That is the key. Microsoft has its own agenda, which is why it is good to have a broadly industry supported alternative.

xnappo

Originally Posted by Sammy2 

... This discussion persists.. We need another f/w update to hash about!

Originally Posted by skybolt 

It just supports the fact that we need a real extender which supports all that was discussed prior to the private public beta. I mean it looks like a lot of Echo's are going to be returned, I know not your's but just saying.

Originally Posted by Sammy2 

It does WMC real well but for $180 (or $165) I'm rethinking about getting another one unless there's some real improvement for everything else soon!

Originally Posted by Foxbat121 

I believe that requirement will be determined by CableLabs, not DTCP alone. Copy-once means copy only once, not many times. DTCP must honor that.

Originally Posted by vladd 

Closed source applications/technologies can be created for open source OSes like Android or Linux. Just because the OS is open source does not mean the application needs to be. Whoever created it would need to submit it to DTCP-IP or CableLabs for approval (not trivial in either case). Submitting it directly to CableLabs would bypass the need for DTCP-IP licensing. I don't know if any of the current DTCP-IP approved schemes are available on Android/Linux.

Originally Posted by erickotz 

Based on my understanding of how all this works, Copy Once doesn't actually mean that you can only make one copy. It means you can only make one generation of copies. When you record a "Copy Once" channel, you have not yet made the first copy. In theory, you could make an unlimited number of copies using the original copy you recorded as the master. You would not be able to make addition copies of your copies (as they will have become Copy No More, or CCI 0x01)
DTCP actually has it's own group (I believe it's called DTLA) and you wouldn't have to have anything certified by CableLabs.

Originally Posted by Sammy2 

Yes, I'm sure this was discussed many pages back...

Originally Posted by erickotz 

DTCP actually has it's own group (I believe it's called DTLA) and you wouldn't have to have anything certified by CableLabs.

Originally Posted by dabretty 

Eric - State of the Echo, please.

Maybe us paying customers are annoying you by asking for this again and again, but I think we deserve this by now (if not a whole lot more). We paid for your released product only to be doing the beta testing for you. So, what's up?

Originally Posted by ajhieb 

At the very least, give us a hint about when you might be making a post about when Ceton might be making an announcement about when they might be releasing an update.

Originally Posted by xnappo 

Hey - I agree there. That is the key. Microsoft has its own agenda, which is why it is good to have a broadly industry supported alternative.

xnappo

Originally Posted by mdavej 

Sorry, this is a little OT, but since you're a JP1 guy, can you confirm what protocol ID, device and subdevice the echo uses? I'm trying to match it up with an existing setup code. And if you use a JP1 upgrade from hifi-remote, which one exactly is the best match? Lastly, if you've made any tweaks, would you please post your Echo upgrade over there?

Thanks

Originally Posted by mdavej 

Sorry, this is a little OT, but since you're a JP1 guy, can you confirm what protocol ID, device and subdevice the echo uses? I'm trying to match it up with an existing setup code. And if you use a JP1 upgrade from hifi-remote, which one exactly is the best match? Lastly, if you've made any tweaks, would you please post your Echo upgrade over there?

Thanks

Originally Posted by reggie14 

I submitted a support ticket last night to return the Echo, but I wasn't sure what to say in the request. Does anyone know what information they need to process the return?

I was holding out to see what was going to happen with Android, but we pretty much ran out of time with the current return deadline. Even if they pushed out an early beta version tomorrow, we're not going to have enough time to test it. I certainly expect the initial release will be buggy, and I also suspect some Android app developers will have to make some updates to their programs so that they will run acceptably on the Echo. We're certainly not going to have enough time to see how that goes before we hit the end of February.

'm also not thrilled with the communication from Ceton throughout this process, so I'm not inclined to give them te benefit of the doubt. They said relatively little during the beta. After some negative press, they turneed things around in December, but now have gone quiet again. Now, it's probably true that they've been more vocal than many large companies would be. However, first of all, they're not that large and almost certainly don't have the same bureaucracy to post something as a company like Microsoft probably has. But more importantly, I think they're basically asking customers to hang in there based on what the Echo will become. If you're asking people to do that you better be making visible progress and/or providing updates to your customers. Since the release, it really seems like the only particularly noticeable area of progress has been around finally getting recorded TV playback to what it should have been (at a minimum) at launch. That doesn't inspire much confidence in me.