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Official Ceton Echo Extender Info Thread - Page 197  

post #5881 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by skybolt View Post

The 4GB slim is dead silent

No, it's not. It's not audible to me at normal TV volume levels, but it is by no means dead silent. This has been claimed and refuted many times before.
post #5882 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by slowbiscuit View Post


It's not audible to me at normal TV volume levels, but it is by no means dead silent. This has been claimed and refuted many times before.

 

I have installed three (or so) and they have been (much) quieter than the TiVos they replaced. Typically, I have to get within a foot or so before I can hear them... 

post #5883 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post

I have installed three (or so) and they have been (much) quieter than the TiVos they replaced. Typically, I have to get within a foot or so before I can hear them... 

I think it really depends on room acoustics as well - My 4GB slim I can hear and it's inside a media cabinet piece of furniture (not totally enclosed and has open areas for ventilation). Though I also have wood floors throughout so you can hear a lot of different things you normally wouldn't in a carpeted room. With normal tv listening, you cannot hear it (usually).

As mentioned, it's not silent but it's definately better than my older gen xbox in the master bedroom.
post #5884 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

Been there, done that. The number of Clear QAM channels available is appalling and only going to get worse. Plus, you cannot get the Cooking Channel this way. tongue.gif (or any of the sports package either) It is a 19" LED.

I will most likely get another echo if it can be made to playback local content better, even if that requires a dual boot into android or some solution like that. Frankly, there's not a whole lot of TV's in my house, meaning only one more needs an echo but the cable STB savings there becomes only $5/month making the cost a little harder to justify.

There should be plenty of refurb -"B" stock units available soon CHEAP!
post #5885 of 7721
Quote:
There should be plenty of refurb -"B" stock units available soon CHEAP!
I'm thinking WootOff.
post #5886 of 7721
A few comments...

More unhappy customers may be on their way to this forum and the TGB forums. They drop the price of the echo this weekend to 169.with a -$15 promo code at NewEgg with free shipping or shoprunner two day.

My Xbox Slim is far from dead silent. I have the power brick under a cabinet so I don't really hear that fan. However, the fan that is in the Xbox has a buzzy type sound to it when its only being used as an extender. I have tried positioning it differently but cannot get it so it's "dead silent". No where near the noise of old ones but still noticeable.

What really bugs me is when the Ceton guys get on here and only answer the off topic stuff and stay far away from the topic at hand...the echo. As soon as one of you ask..."ok thanks for the info but what's going on with the echo?"....they suddenly disappear. If you had time to respond to a trivial question how about answering some echo questions?

I had an echo pre-ordered at NewEgg but canceled the order just before they locked all the pre-orders into shipping mode. I have followed this thread ever since with disappointment that the echo is where it's at. I really want this to work out and when it does I will buy one. When will that be Ceton?
post #5887 of 7721
Ceton finally breaks the silence!

Quote:
Big savings at Newegg today!
Save $79 off SRP on InfiniTV 4 USB & Echo Combo!

Well, I feel comforted.
post #5888 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4TunerEnvy View Post


What really bugs me is when the Ceton guys get on here and only answer the off topic stuff and stay far away from the topic at hand...the echo. As soon as one of you ask..."ok thanks for the info but what's going on with the echo?"....they suddenly disappear. If you had time to respond to a trivial question how about answering some echo questions?

Pretty much this. Ceton really needs to hire PR person/firm so they can make an attempt to at least look like they give a damn. I mean, how hard is it to come on here at say something like, "We hear your concerns and are working on the solutions". They could also use a lesson on how to run a public beta but I digress...

A few years down the road after the Echo is no more (hell its already irrelevant as far as I'm concerned) the Ceton head honchos are going to shake their heads and say "Damn, we fricked that product up!".
post #5889 of 7721
Going offtopic-ish for a moment.

Ceton should have released the Q based on win7 embedded at the same time as the echo. Even if they still had compatability problems with the Echo, this would have at least quelled all of the "what are we gonna do when win7 is gone?" talk.

Win7 should be around for quite a while if history is any indicator. (see Winxp)

Win7 embedded should be around for even longer if history is any indicator (see all other embedded oses that were supported long after their desktop equiv)

So at that point we'd at least have a stable WMC platform that should be around for the foreseeable future.
post #5890 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggen_PCB View Post

Pretty much this. Ceton really needs to hire PR person/firm so they can make an attempt to at least look like they give a damn. I mean, how hard is it to come on here at say something like, "We hear your concerns and are working on the solutions". They could also use a lesson on how to run a public beta but I digress...

A few years down the road after the Echo is no more (hell its already irrelevant as far as I'm concerned) the Ceton head honchos are going to shake their heads and say "Damn, we fricked that product up!".

rolleyes.gif
post #5891 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajhieb View Post

Going offtopic-ish for a moment.

Ceton should have released the Q based on win7 embedded at the same time as the echo. Even if they still had compatability problems with the Echo, this would have at least quelled all of the "what are we gonna do when win7 is gone?" talk.

Win7 should be around for quite a while if history is any indicator. (see Winxp)

Win7 embedded should be around for even longer if history is any indicator (see all other embedded oses that were supported long after their desktop equiv)

So at that point we'd at least have a stable WMC platform that should be around for the foreseeable future.

You are on to something there. AFAIK all of the Uverse boxes are XP embeded WinCE running a modified version of WMC.. They may have migrated to Win7CE/WMC by now in the newer models but still. It really didn't matter what OS was under the Q as long as it worked.
post #5892 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

You are on to something there. AFAIK all of the Uverse boxes are XP embeded WinCE running a modified version of WMC.. They may have migrated to Win7CE/WMC by now in the newer models but still. It really didn't matter what OS was under the Q as long as it worked.

The problem here though is that AT&T is a major communications network that's running a proprietary platform. That has a lot of clout when you're working with another major company and need licensing for your product. It works out for both MS and AT&T. What is Ceton compared to that, though? How much longer would MS allow Ceton to license W7 Embedded to new hardware, especially when Ceton's plans run contrary to Microsoft's in terms of what they want to do with MCE? Ceton has absolutely no pull considering the size of the market, and is less than an speed bump in front of the corporate machine that is Microsoft and their plans.
post #5893 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by CorporateASH View Post

The problem here though is that AT&T is a major communications network that's running a proprietary platform. That has a lot of clout when you're working with another major company and need licensing for your product. It works out for both MS and AT&T. What is Ceton compared to that, though? How much longer would MS allow Ceton to license W7 Embedded to new hardware, especially when Ceton's plans run contrary to Microsoft's in terms of what they want to do with MCE? Ceton has absolutely no pull considering the size of the market, and is less than an speed bump in front of the corporate machine that is Microsoft and their plans.

I don't think the size of Ceton's company or market makes any difference at all. The nature of Windows embedded means that it has a much longer service life than a desktop OS. As long as MS is licensing Win7E (to ATT&T or anybody else) then Ceton should be able to license it too.
post #5894 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by CorporateASH View Post

The problem here though is that AT&T is a major communications network that's running a proprietary platform. That has a lot of clout when you're working with another major company and need licensing for your product. It works out for both MS and AT&T. What is Ceton compared to that, though? Ceton has absolutely no pull considering the size of the market, and is less than an speed bump in front of the corporate machine that is Microsoft and their plans. How much longer would MS allow Ceton to license W7 Embedded to new hardware, especially when Ceton's plans run contrary to Microsoft's in terms of what they want to do with MCE?

Which reinforces my earlier statement talking about how I wish Ceton had dumped MCE totally and developed their own DVR software suite. As much as they have spent developing the Echo I would think they would want total control of the software package and not have to rely on Microsoft.
post #5895 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggen_PCB View Post

Which reinforces my earlier statement talking about how I wish Ceton had dumped MCE totally and developed their own DVR software suite. As much as they have spent developing the Echo I would think they would want total control of the software package and not have to rely on Microsoft.
Do you have any idea what it costs to develop something like Windows Media Center?smile.gif

Hint: If you have to ask....
post #5896 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by kapone View Post

Do you have any idea what it costs to develop something like Windows Media Center?smile.gif

Hint: If you have to ask....

You think the R&D on the Echo was free? Ceton must have working capital to take that venture on and I would think the cost of developing their own DVR suite would be less than the hardware design of the Echo...
post #5897 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by skybolt View Post

The 4GB slim is dead silent, there is only a low speed larger fan through the top. It makes the noise level disapear. I have an older elite and the slim and they are night and day in sound.

The biggest downside to the 360 is you need a live account to get the media update for local content in most cases. I had to switch to the family pack, so that's $100/yr. But if your a gamer you can sort of justify that.

The Optional Media Update and Dashboard updates can be done with a Silver or Free Live account no cost.
post #5898 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haba View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by skybolt View Post

The biggest downside to the 360 is you need a live account to get the media update for local content in most cases. I had to switch to the family pack, so that's $100/yr. But if your a gamer you can sort of justify that.

The Optional Media Update and Dashboard updates can be done with a Silver or Free Live account no cost.

users of my software donated to me specificly for the purchase of a 360 for testing so I could include extender support because installing the Divx codec bundle caused more harm than good. Currently, my software will allow MKV, FLV, and OGM files to play through the xbox's Media Center connection along with natively supported formats. I use a free Live Account to keep the xbox updated. I am not a gamer by any means other than the occasional solitaire.
post #5899 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajhieb View Post

I don't think the size of Ceton's company or market makes any difference at all. The nature of Windows embedded means that it has a much longer service life than a desktop OS. As long as MS is licensing Win7E (to ATT&T or anybody else) then Ceton should be able to license it too.

I don't think the service life is the issue so much as getting new licensure outside of a (pre-existing) large corporate agreement. This is all pure conjecture of course, but end-of-life for WinXPE is scheduled for 2016. I highly doubt that Microsoft will force AT&T to switch platforms if they haven't already done so by then. With how much Microsoft has been pushing Win8 and how tightly it seems they've been controlling the the availability of Win7, what are the prospects of them being agreeable to licensing the OS to a company that wants to push a product they seem to be trying to kill on an OS they're moving away from? But like I said, it's very possible I'm just talking out of my backside here: all conjecture.
post #5900 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by dabretty View Post

I'm wondering now if I got the shaft with my slim. The slim itself is silent, but the power brick is significantly loud (due to the inclusion of a fan in it). We have this in our master bedroom, and the fan in the power brick is mildly annoying when the tv volume is low. ....

I also have mine in the MB, but my power brick has no fan. The slim itself has a large slow moving fan which is dead silent. Perhaps there are newer models about?
post #5901 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by slowbiscuit View Post

No, it's not. It's not audible to me at normal TV volume levels, but it is by no means dead silent. This has been claimed and refuted many times before.

To each his own I guess, I have no fan noise and no HD noise because there is no HD. Just a large slow moving fan in the slim itself and believe me when I tell you, mine is dead silent. And compared to my older elite, no comparison.
post #5902 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggen_PCB View Post

Which reinforces my earlier statement talking about how I wish Ceton had dumped MCE totally and developed their own DVR software suite. As much as they have spent developing the Echo I would think they would want total control of the software package and not have to rely on Microsoft.

Hopefully this is a thought they've had. I'm not sure if it was you I responded to a few pages back or no, but this was a question I raised to them on Twitter a few weeks ago. They replied that they're focusing on WMC for now. My assumption is that Ceton is a relatively small start-up considering their product offerings and what I've seen over the past couple of years, and I have no idea how many people work for them. I can't imagine that developing hardware is an easy task in any way, shape, or form, and I remember being on a waiting list for my Infini4TV just a short time ago. What would it take for a company that's relatively new and has been pouring all of its resources into building hardware and, until recently, putting a shine on another company's offerings (WMC on the Q) to expand into building a WMC replacement from the ground up?

One of the nice things about being a company like Microsoft is that you have resources to take risks and - regardless of whether or not it happens - implement changes pretty quickly. I DO wish that my Echo experience were smoother. Overall I'm pretty happy with it right now even though I've had to go through a Ceton-initiated recovery. I DO wish there were more transparency and communication from Ceton at the moment. However, despite having been called a fanboy, I really am behind them and would like to see them pull everything together and, yes, eventually have the resources and drive to develop a replacement for WMC. I feel like they're the only company out there right now with the interest and potential to do it.
post #5903 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggen_PCB View Post

You think the R&D on the Echo was free? Ceton must have working capital to take that venture on and I would think the cost of developing their own DVR suite would be less than the hardware design of the Echo...
There are at least 2 big issues to deal with in designing DVR software. The first would be the DRM licensing for Playready or equivalent, which isn't cheap. The 2nd is guide data. We take the free guide data in WMC for granted, but the reality is that it's a pretty expensive proposition and requires a surprising amount of infrastructure to do properly. Open source software can use Schedules Direct for the guide data source, but software coming from a business like Ceton would need to look elsewhere. When I took over the development of the accessDTV DVR software a number of years ago, I had a heck of a time convincing Schedules Direct to allow me access to their guide data for the accessDTV users - unless things have changed recently, Ceton would not be allowed.

Then, of course, there's the effort involved in creating the DVR software itself, which isn't exactly a trivial undertaking especially if you're going to do more than just TV.

I think their best bet would be to work with other media center software companies to get DRM support and InfiniTV support added to one or more of them. There have been hints recently that J River Media Center will be adding support for the InfiniTV cards, but they have so far dodged the question as to whether there will be support for Copy Once channels or only Copy Freely channels. However, J River's DVR functionality has a long way to go before it could be considered a proper WMC alternative IMO.
post #5904 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by skybolt View Post

I also have mine in the MB, but my power brick has no fan. The slim itself has a large slow moving fan which is dead silent. Perhaps there are newer models about?
That's exactly what I'm thinking. Not having a first gen (like my old elite) around anymore, I don't know if the power bricks are interchangeable? Regardless, the slim uses less power which would seemingly mean that its power brick would have less heat generation (if there wasn't a fan in the power brick before, why in this generation?). I think I (and surely others) received some sort of weird batch. It's a relatively small fan, quite noisy, something that you'd never put into a home PC build if you were noise-conscious. I've seriously thought about cutting into the supply and removing the fan, potentially leaving a big heatsink in its place. I was deterred by existing warranty before, but at this point I suppose it doesn't matter anymore.
post #5905 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shark007 View Post

... I use a free Live Account to keep the xbox updated. ...

Didn't know there was such a thing. If thats the case why do I pay for a live account?

If your going to say something like that, please explain it. I don't think everyone can get a free account can they?
post #5906 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

There are at least 2 big issues to deal with in designing DVR software. The first would be the DRM licensing for Playready or equivalent, which isn't cheap. The 2nd is guide data. We take the free guide data in WMC for granted, but the reality is that it's a pretty expensive proposition and requires a surprising amount of infrastructure to do properly. Open source software can use Schedules Direct for the guide data source, but software coming from a business like Ceton would need to look elsewhere. When I took over the development of the accessDTV DVR software a number of years ago, I had a heck of a time convincing Schedules Direct to allow me access to their guide data for the accessDTV users - unless things have changed recently, Ceton would not be allowed.

Then, of course, there's the effort involved in creating the DVR software itself, which isn't exactly a trivial undertaking especially if you're going to do more than just TV.

I think their best bet would be to work with other media center software companies to get DRM support and InfiniTV support added to one or more of them. There have been hints recently that J River Media Center will be adding support for the InfiniTV cards, but they have so far dodged the question as to whether there will be support for Copy Once channels or only Copy Freely channels. However, J River's DVR functionality has a long way to go before it could be considered a proper WMC alternative IMO.

As much as I will beat on Ceton for this pretty much failed product launch of the Echo, I can't blame them at all for leveraging what Microsoft already had in place in terms of WMC. They (Ceton) were not looking to re-invent this stuff, and Microsoft clearly had the money and pull to work out legal issues with protecting recorded content. Ceton has just a couple balls in the air, and they clearly are having a hard time staying afloat. Expecting a company like them to cut a whole bunch of legal agreements *and* do the technical work on the hardware side ... well, I think that's asking a little much.

I hope Ceton exists at the end of this. But it's going to take a big boy like Microsoft at least half-paving a road in front of them. Don't expect Ceton to be clearing the terrain in front of them. They clearly can't.
post #5907 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by dabretty View Post

That's exactly what I'm thinking. Not having a first gen (like my old elite) around anymore, I don't know if the power bricks are interchangeable? Regardless, the slim uses less power which would seemingly mean that its power brick would have less heat generation (if there wasn't a fan in the power brick before, why in this generation?). I think I (and surely others) received some sort of weird batch. It's a relatively small fan, quite noisy, something that you'd never put into a home PC build if you were noise-conscious. I've seriously thought about cutting into the supply and removing the fan, potentially leaving a big heatsink in its place. I was deterred by existing warranty before, but at this point I suppose it doesn't matter anymore.

My brick is solid, no vents. Strange. The power to the 360 is not interchangeable with the older ones. only two pins going into the slim. I think they may sell converters for the older ones to fit the slim.
post #5908 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by dabretty View Post

That's exactly what I'm thinking. Not having a first gen (like my old elite) around anymore, I don't know if the power bricks are interchangeable? Regardless, the slim uses less power which would seemingly mean that its power brick would have less heat generation (if there wasn't a fan in the power brick before, why in this generation?). I think I (and surely others) received some sort of weird batch. It's a relatively small fan, quite noisy, something that you'd never put into a home PC build if you were noise-conscious. I've seriously thought about cutting into the supply and removing the fan, potentially leaving a big heatsink in its place. I was deterred by existing warranty before, but at this point I suppose it doesn't matter anymore.

The fan sounds strange almost like it is an after market unit. The power supplies are differently designed for lower and lower power use with different connectors so the user doesn't try hook up a newer smaller power supply with an older console.
post #5909 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haba View Post

The Optional Media Update and Dashboard updates can be done with a Silver or Free Live account no cost.

So how does one get afree live account? That seems easier to type the get.
post #5910 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by skybolt View Post

Didn't know there was such a thing. If thats the case why do I pay for a live account?

If your going to say something like that, please explain it. I don't think everyone can get a free account can they?

Sure anyone can get a free account. Try checking out this article, I am not entirely sure of it's accuracy but it gives you an idea. I already had a Hotmail account so perhaps that helps. The free account is very limited with mostly updates only, no Netflix or online gaming.

Live Free account
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