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Official Ceton Echo Extender Info Thread - Page 205  

post #6121 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by doozer12 View Post

Thanks for your honest input. I hope some others will chime in also. I may just go ahead and try it out for our bedroom TV as the cost isnt much. Although I will have to run cat5 to my bedroom from the living room. Unless there is a reliable way to run it through the existing cable line for a test period.

I use a moca adaptor and it works ok in the bedroom.
I do think that xnappo hit it on the head with his comments but here is my impression/feedback


1. Does it support MKV playback support? If not, will it?
- Very limited. Anything with DTS or is HBR(>12mbps) will crash it. (this includes m2ts)
- I don't like the fact that it requires a codec pack or splitter PC side to do any heavy lifting.

2. Is it "snappy" enough or does it lag alot.
its pretty snappy..on par with the XBOX

3. Over all WAF?
This is tough! In my system the echo struggles with certain feeds (LMN and Lifetime Networks) which the DMA and XBOX handle very smoothly and unfortunately the WAF factor is automatically low.
4. Can I playback all recorded TV content? (no DRM issues?)
- I can watch all copy protected content recorded on my HTPC

5. Overall, does it work as it should or are alot of people finding it "buggy" still?
Its still IMO a late-BETA product but if your only need is HDTV/PVR functions its worth it for a non-main setup.
Edited by mariob33 - 2/22/13 at 12:55pm
post #6122 of 7721
I have no issue in returning my Echo. If they pull it off, I'll gladly revisit it. I just couldn't justify the nearly $400 investment when it hardly worked consistently.
post #6123 of 7721
The 'State of the Echo #3' sounds really interesting.

Sounds like they are planning to do away with the remote WMC interface completely and replace it with a custom built one based on Android? I guess I never really understood how the whole android integration was going to work.

That'd be nice to just be able to access WMC functionality from the Echo but with a complete custom UI with netflix, local library etc. integrated in one interface. Sounds like they are basically creating a state of the art 'whole home' DVR experience, but with a WMC PC (wit at the heart.

My excitement is renewed!! biggrin.gif

Edit: now I just want that, and the flexibility to switch to satellite in the future if I need to.
post #6124 of 7721
Very excited on the latest SotE 3 post. I figured they'd been working on a large undertaking, hence the silence the past couple of months and the few/minimal updates being pushed in the FWs.

Hopefully this will quell some of the complaints for at least a few days biggrin.gif
post #6125 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by TallWalrus View Post

That is a serious undertaking and was my hope (and probably everyone's) for what they were doing. Given the scope, I have to think it's still months away, but it looks incredible.

Even I wil have to say that will be amazing. Totally agree it's a ways out thouhg.
post #6126 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenJF3 View Post

New State of The Echo:

http://cetoncorp.com/blog/state_of_echo_3/

I'd like to see an Extender built into a Roku box myself! I plan on cutting the cable and using OTA with my Roku for primary viewing.

ahem... now that is some exciting news. I like the part about being Windows 8 compatible as well. Sounds like they found a good workaround. Lets hope it translates well.

GO CETON!!
post #6127 of 7721
Ok, where's Sammy2's "I told you so" post?
post #6128 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by skybolt View Post

Ok, where's Sammy2's "I told you so" post?

That made me chuckle
post #6129 of 7721
An idea and a few screenshots doesn't mean that they will actually pull if off. And still nothing about DTS and better MKV support. I can keep these for another month but I doubt we will have anything by then.
post #6130 of 7721
Integrating WMC within an Android interface... I have no idea how they're going to do that, but if it essentially amounts to a proper media player with nothing more than a behind-the-scenes hook back into the live/recorded TV portion of WMC, where we don't end up with a clumsy two-interface solution, then there is real potential. That would indeed be a box worth $179. I am very skeptical that they can do this as smoothly and seemlessly as we all want--not so much from a technical standpoint, but from a Microsoft licensing standpoint. I hope I'm wrong on that.
post #6131 of 7721
I agree with others that it looks great ... but I am skeptical given the size of the undertaking. Issues that remain for a lot of us (like video stutter on certain channels) have shown little improvement in the pre-Android firmware updates ... can/will all of this be solved as they move to an Android-based solution? Basically, if they couldn't get the MCX experience to be perfect for their customer base, how high can confidence be that they can pull off a WMC interface in Android (which I would think to be a 100X bigger task)? But please prove me wrong!

As a software engineer myself, part of me really feels for the guys doing the work being under the gun. I hope this wasn't management being management (prematurely dangling a carrot to customers, at the expense of added pain/burden to the guys writing the code). That is not a fun position to be in.
post #6132 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by crbaldwin View Post

An idea and a few screenshots doesn't mean that they will actually pull if off. And still nothing about DTS and better MKV support. I can keep these for another month but I doubt we will have anything by then.

I think this statement implies a lot:

"...we want to make it your go-to device for a wide range of digital media, including live and recorded TV, personal media and online media."

So much complaining has been going on about proper MKV support that you know it has to be in this scope of work. I agree that it would be nice if it was spelled given how rough things have been launching this product but they probably need to keep things implied or vague based on a lot of unknowns. You can have a product and look at the manufactures specs and say "I THINK we can do everything we want to with this device". But since it is a new platform, it has yet to be proven and therefore no guarantees. As long as they keep that 'I think it can' attitude, then I think they will pull it off wink.gif

When you read it, it sound like they are trying to get out of the extender mode all-together and do everything in Android. If so, I speculate that is their way of saying FU MS. And if that is the case, you wonder how much was spent on extender licenses. It would seem they will not be needed anymore if this thing comes to fruition unless someone just prefers the MC interface.
post #6133 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcturkey View Post

Integrating WMC within an Android interface... I have no idea how they're going to do that, but if it essentially amounts to a proper media player with nothing more than a behind-the-scenes hook back into the live/recorded TV portion of WMC, where we don't end up with a clumsy two-interface solution, then there is real potential. That would indeed be a box worth $179. I am very skeptical that they can do this as smoothly and seemlessly as we all want--not so much from a technical standpoint, but from a Microsoft licensing standpoint. I hope I'm wrong on that.

Agreed. What it sounds like to me is picking/choosing when to display (to the user) the RDP connection with the HTPC running WMC, only during playback or live TV. And hiding all of the typical WMC interface from the user, instead displaying their own through Android. Could be slick if they could pull it off. I too wonder, however, how Microsoft would allow this. If you wrote your own GUI front-end for MS Excel - and only displayed what you wanted of the underlying spreadsheet display - they'd be all up in your business in no time.
post #6134 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by McLuvin View Post

When you read it, it sound like they are trying to get out of the extender mode all-together and do everything in Android. If so, I speculate that is their way of saying FU MS. And if that is the case, you wonder how much was spent on extender licenses. It would seem they will not be needed anymore if this thing comes to fruition unless someone just prefers the MC interface.

I think they would still need the license, as they are extending functionality of WMC to a remote device. They'll still need the WMC backend to handle the DRM cable content right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by dabretty View Post

Agreed. What it sounds like to me is picking/choosing when to display (to the user) the RDP connection with the HTPC running WMC, only during playback or live TV. And hiding all of the typical WMC interface from the user, instead displaying their own through Android. Could be slick if they could pull it off. I too wonder, however, how Microsoft would allow this. If you wrote your own GUI front-end for MS Excel - and only displayed what you wanted of the underlying spreadsheet display - they'd be all up in your business in no time.

I'm not sure this is true. I don't think they would care as long you purchased the WMC extender licenses. There is really no skin off their nose.
post #6135 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcturkey View Post

Integrating WMC within an Android interface... I have no idea how they're going to do that, but if it essentially amounts to a proper media player with nothing more than a behind-the-scenes hook back into the live/recorded TV portion of WMC, where we don't end up with a clumsy two-interface solution, then there is real potential.
I wonder how much they are borrowing from the Q project to do this. Maybe they already had most of it figured out.
post #6136 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by th3Pil0t View Post

Bad luck for those who already RMA's makes me glad I decided to keep my two. smile.gif

Thanks for the update Ceton, even if it is about a month late.

Give me a break man. Its been months since the release and they still don't have basic stuff working like HBR .mkv playback, pass through audio, color space issues, etc... If they still don't have simple $hit like this done by now how long do you think it will take to bring a whole new OS onto the platform?

If the Echo ends up being the extender we all hope and want I'll gladly purchase them. But I want results not broken promises... So far, this entire product is less than underwhelming. Only time will tell.
post #6137 of 7721
I sort-of think they must have bought a PlayReady license or something. I don't see how the 'showing wmc only when playing protected content' theory gets around the Win8 issue.

xnappo
post #6138 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by th3Pil0t View Post

I think they would still need the license, as they are extending functionality of WMC to a remote device. They'll still need the WMC backend to handle the DRM cable content right?
I'm not sure this is true. I don't think they would care as long you purchased the WMC extender licenses. There is really no skin off their nose.

Good point on DRM. They would still need the RDP stream for protected content. Who knows as long as they get it working. But that would tell me that they would still need the extender license...
post #6139 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggen_PCB View Post

Give me a break man. Its been months since the release and they still don't have basic stuff working like HBR .mkv playback, pass through audio, color space issues, etc... If they still don't have simple $hit like this done by now how long do you think it will take to bring a whole new OS onto the platform?

If the Echo ends up being the extender we all hope and want I'll gladly purchase them. But I want results not broken promises... So far, this entire product is less than underwhelming. Only time will tell.

So do you have one? Because my two are working pretty well at the moment...
post #6140 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenJF3 View Post

New State of The Echo:

http://cetoncorp.com/blog/state_of_echo_3/

That's quite the update. As others have said, this is pretty much exactly what many of us were hoping the Android "project" would look like.

And, if I'm reading and seeing this correctly, it looks like Netflix content will be integrated with the WMC content. That's pretty cool. How many devices do that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by th3Pil0t View Post

Bad luck for those who already RMA's makes me glad I decided to keep my two. smile.gif

Really? If this pans out you don't think those of us who returned our Echos could buy new ones?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcturkey View Post

Integrating WMC within an Android interface... I have no idea how they're going to do that, but if it essentially amounts to a proper media player with nothing more than a behind-the-scenes hook back into the live/recorded TV portion of WMC, where we don't end up with a clumsy two-interface solution, then there is real potential.

That's what it looks like to me. It doesn't seem that surprising that you could do that, although it must be fairly complicated. Isn't that data already available via the My Media Center app? I'm not quite sure how they actually do the video streaming, particularly for the copy-protected stuff, but I'm not surprised there's a way to do it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xnappo View Post

I sort-of think they must have bought a PlayReady license or something. I don't see how the 'showing wmc only when playing protected content' theory gets around the Win8 issue.

They already needed a PlayReady license. How do you think they're playing back protected content now?

I kind of wonder if they're bypassing the Win8 issue by simply not using RDP to stream the interface.
Quote:
Originally Posted by McLuvin View Post

Good point on DRM. They would still need the RDP stream for protected content. Who knows as long as they get it working. But that would tell me that they would still need the extender license...

RDP isn't used for streaming content- just streaming the UI. They must be using PlayReady to protect the content.
post #6141 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenJF3 View Post

New State of The Echo:

http://cetoncorp.com/blog/state_of_echo_3/

I'd like to see an Extender built into a Roku box myself! I plan on cutting the cable and using OTA with my Roku for primary viewing.

Ok, now I just got that feeling like this may be what everyone wanted in the first place, I hope Ceton comes through with this as this would be awesome. Of course, as some have said the current state of the Echo is so far away from this that it will be unbelievable if they pull this off!
post #6142 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by reggie14 View Post

They already needed a PlayReady license. How do you think they're playing back protected content now?

Sort-of assumed that what they have now is an extender license which provides PlayReady playback within the MS walled garden, and that a license to play back outside the garden was a different animal.

xnappo
post #6143 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by th3Pil0t View Post

Bad luck for those who already RMA's makes me glad I decided to keep my two. smile.gif

Thanks for the update Ceton, even if it is about a month late.

What is the bad news for those that returned? Are they prevented from rebuying?
post #6144 of 7721
I would have preferred a better understanding of what "a wide range of digital media, including live and recorded TV, personal media and online media" means. I don't need a better way of rendering my "Recorded Content". WMC does this just fine. Sure the artwork/metadata is purty, but there are plenty of solutions to use/present metadata, artwork etc just fine. I want better understanding of what this means "personal media and online media". If it means family videos and a limited number of containers/file types + Netflix then how does this become anymore than a new UI. I need more information around what will and wont be supported. I will temper any excitement until shown better specs on what they will support.
post #6145 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasongrimme View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by th3Pil0t View Post

Bad luck for those who already RMA's makes me glad I decided to keep my two. smile.gif

Thanks for the update Ceton, even if it is about a month late.

What is the bad news for those that returned? Are they prevented from rebuying?

+1
The real bad news could be for those that decide to hold,only to find out that to deliver what is called out required a slight change in "HW" specifications.
post #6146 of 7721
Could be exciting. Of course, like every single product Ceton has ever made, the question is how long it'll take to come to fruition. I know it's a small group of people working on this, but I wish they'd stop promising stuff and just deliver.
post #6147 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by reggie14 View Post

They already needed a PlayReady license. How do you think they're playing back protected content now?
I kind of wonder if they're bypassing the Win8 issue by simply not using RDP to stream the interface.
RDP isn't used for streaming content- just streaming the UI. They must be using PlayReady to protect the content.

This seems like the most likely explanation.

Also, i wouldn't be surprised if some of the limitations with respect to MKV's etc might be RDP issues. I believe this was speculated previously.
post #6148 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by skybolt View Post

Ok, where's Sammy2's "I told you so" post?

I'll do it for him... Told you so.

But seriously, what purpose is served chiding individuals who support this product? If you've paid attention to any of his posts, he doesn't blindly support it. He's had his fair share of issues to get resolved. We all have.

I for one am appreciative that the state of the echo was released, and gives those of us who want to see this product succeed a little more hope.
post #6149 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by reggie14 View Post

That's what it looks like to me. It doesn't seem that surprising that you could do that, although it must be fairly complicated. Isn't that data already available via the My Media Center app? I'm not quite sure how they actually do the video streaming, particularly for the copy-protected stuff, but I'm not surprised there's a way to do it.
Yeah, all the data is already available via the My Media Center app. To get basic extender functionality working, all they really need to do is add a way to play recordings back (including protected recordings).

If they deliver on this Android functionality, I predict there will be a lot of happy customers some number of months into the future.
post #6150 of 7721
I've got to believe that there also looking at solutions without Media Center.
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