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Official Ceton Echo Extender Info Thread - Page 216

post #6451 of 7562
3/7/13 at 8:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggen_PCB View Post

The Ceton cheerleaders always say the same. Ceton will fix it blah blah blah. Ceton could probably sell these same people swamp land in Arizona. I wish my customers were this gullible.

The bottom line is that the Echo is no where near the solution that we all thought it would be when it was announced. It will be irrelevant by this time next year...

What's coming out by next year?
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Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #6452 of 7562
3/7/13 at 8:58pm
My entire library is a mix of dvd and bluray rips using handbrake. Before the update, I would get 1 frame every few seconds seconds with intermittent sound. The update gets it to playback, with a momentary slowdown every 10 seconds. May be watchable for some, but not me. It's a huge leap forward in my case, but hopefully they'll fix it further because it will have been for nothing otherwise. All my rips are low bit rate and play perfectly on my xbox. I just wish ceton provided a schedule, even if they dont meet it, it's better than nothing and it lets us know they are working on something. Blind faith is too much to ask for.
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post #6453 of 7562
3/7/13 at 9:16pm
2013.304.1657 firmware fixed H.264 MP4 variable frame rate (VFR). 1080p still has some stutter regardless of constant or variable frame rate. This is a big step forward given VFR simply did not work. 720p files I tested are perfect.
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post #6454 of 7562
3/7/13 at 9:52pm
Hi,
Just switched to wmc ceton echo from sagetv " Cox just converted bunch of my channels to copy once Cox 😓".

I am somewhat happy with IQ with HD 1080i and and 720P from my silicon dust prime.
But SD is definitely worse then sagetv.
I tried native and up scaling to 1080.
Looks like deinterlacing is half on.

Anybody else experiencing the same?
Thanks
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post #6455 of 7562
3/8/13 at 4:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hazna View Post

Hi,
Just switched to wmc ceton echo from sagetv " Cox just converted bunch of my channels to copy once Cox 😓".

I am somewhat happy with IQ with HD 1080i and and 720P from my silicon dust prime.
But SD is definitely worse then sagetv.
I tried native and up scaling to 1080.
Looks like deinterlacing is half on.

Anybody else experiencing the same?
Thanks

I would not even atempt to compare the Echo to the HD300 completly differant relm. The HD300 is amazing in what it can do, and the Echo is amazing at what it can't.

To answer your question, yes everyone here is seeing at least what you have posted.
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post #6456 of 7562
3/8/13 at 6:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

If you don't like it send it back and find something else to complain about.

Nah, I think I'm gonna keep it and KEEP complaining until it's working properly. If nothing else, just to piss you off wink.gif
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post #6457 of 7562
3/8/13 at 6:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by shortcut3d View Post

2013.304.1657 firmware fixed H.264 MP4 variable frame rate (VFR). 1080p still has some stutter regardless of constant or variable frame rate. This is a big step forward given VFR simply did not work. 720p files I tested are perfect.

VFR MKVs still don't work for me at all.

xnappo
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post #6458 of 7562
3/8/13 at 6:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by realtight View Post

Nah, I think I'm gonna keep it and KEEP complaining until it's working properly. If nothing else, just to piss you off wink.gif
I am only interested in the Live TV and recording playback of echo. For everything else I use my hd300s.
I have to say going from Sagetv to WMC is very disappointing...

Sagetv user since 2003...
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post #6459 of 7562
3/8/13 at 6:51am
My Biggest echo Complaint:

That pause when skipping forward or skipping back. I am still primarily using my old Linksys because, for some unfathomable reason, the several years old Linksys recovers from skips forward and back almost immediately, while the echo takes what seems like a half second or so. Seems minor, but when you are skipping around a lot (I do) that delay makes it hard to "land" where you want. This has been mentioned elsewhere in this thread.

Again, Linksys is fast, so it is not my network. The echo reportedly has much newer, faster hardware, so why the delay?

I know this is minor, but for me, it is annoying enough to make me stick with the Linksys (which has its' own problems, of course).

When they first announced the echo, I asked Ceton some questions regarding if problems with the Linksys would persist in the echo, and they claimed the faster hardware should solve lots of problems. Ironically, this specific issue is slower on the echo. mad.gif
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post #6460 of 7562
3/8/13 at 7:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by xnappo View Post

VFR MKVs still don't work for me at all.

xnappo

It may be the bit rate in that case. TGB has a couple reports MKVs are also working but the bit rate is lower than a blu-ray.

http://www.thegreenbutton.tv/forums/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=4711
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post #6461 of 7562
3/8/13 at 7:22am
mkv's have worked for a long time so long as they aren't too "intense".
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post #6462 of 7562
3/8/13 at 7:35am
I have the same issue, after skip forward/back or pausing the video comes back within 1/2 second but audio takes another 2 seconds. It is very frustrating because i always have to skip back an extra time after finding my spot. I know it doesnt sound like much, but those 2-3 seconds matter and other extenders do it fine. Hopefully on the fix it list at ceton. Echo is connected straight to samsung tv via hdmi.
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post #6463 of 7562
3/8/13 at 8:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by shortcut3d View Post

It may be the bit rate in that case. TGB has a couple reports MKVs are also working but the bit rate is lower than a blu-ray.

http://www.thegreenbutton.tv/forums/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=4711

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

mkv's have worked for a long time so long as they aren't too "intense".

Nope. Not high bitrate:
Code:
Format                                   : Matroska
Format version                           : Version 2
File size                                : 3.14 GiB
Duration                                 : 1h 45mn
Overall bit rate                         : 4 275 Kbps
Encoded date                             : UTC 2012-10-14 12:12:25
Writing application                      : mkvmerge v5.8.0 ('No Sleep / Pillow') built on Sep  2 2012 15:37:04
Writing library                          : libebml v1.2.3 + libmatroska v1.3.0

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : Main@L5.1
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames                : 9 frames
Codec ID                                 : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Duration                                 : 1h 45mn
Bit rate                                 : 3 550 Kbps
Width                                    : 1 280 pixels
Height                                   : 534 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 2.40:1
Frame rate                               : 23.976 fps
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.217
Stream size                              : 2.60 GiB (83%)
Default                                  : Yes
Forced                                   : No

Audio
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AC-3
Format/Info                              : Audio Coding 3
Mode extension                           : CM (complete main)
Format settings, Endianness              : Big
Codec ID                                 : A_AC3
Duration                                 : 1h 45mn
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 640 Kbps
Channel(s)                               : 6 channels
Channel positions                        : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth                                : 16 bits
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 481 MiB (15%)
Default                                  : Yes
Forced                                   : No

You think such a file would work in your setups?

Here is another - these both start to play but are SUPER choppy. Just in case you are wondering.. IT IS NOT MY NIC DRIVERS! biggrin.gifbiggrin.gif I would not rule out my Shark007 setup though.
Code:
Format                                   : Matroska
Format version                           : Version 2
File size                                : 2.18 GiB
Duration                                 : 1h 37mn
Overall bit rate                         : 3 211 Kbps
Writing application                      : mkvmerge v4.1.1 ('Bouncin' Back') built on Jul  3 2010 22:54:08
Writing library                          : libebml v1.0.0 + libmatroska v1.0

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High@L4.1
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames                : 5 frames
Codec ID                                 : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Duration                                 : 1h 37mn
Bit rate                                 : 2 571 Kbps
Width                                    : 1 280 pixels
Height                                   : 720 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate                               : 23.976 fps
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.116
Stream size                              : 1.70 GiB (78%)
Writing library                          : x264 core 129 r2245 bc13772
Encoding settings                        : cabac=1 / ref=5 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x3:0x133 / me=umh / subme=7 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.00:0.00 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=1 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=0 / chroma_qp_offset=-2 / threads=18 / lookahead_threads=3 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=3 / b_pyramid=2 / b_adapt=1 / b_bias=0 / direct=1 / weightb=1 / open_gop=0 / weightp=2 / keyint=250 / keyint_min=23 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=40 / rc=2pass / mbtree=1 / bitrate=2571 / ratetol=1.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=0 / qpmax=69 / qpstep=4 / cplxblur=20.0 / qblur=0.5 / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=1:1.00
Language                                 : English
Default                                  : Yes
Forced                                   : No

Audio
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AC-3
Format/Info                              : Audio Coding 3
Mode extension                           : CM (complete main)
Format settings, Endianness              : Big
Codec ID                                 : A_AC3
Duration                                 : 1h 37mn
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 640 Kbps
Channel(s)                               : 6 channels
Channel positions                        : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth                                : 16 bits
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 445 MiB (20%)
Title                                    : AC3
Language                                 : English
Default                                  : Yes
Forced                                   : No

And here is one mucho higher bitrate and resolution that plays perfectly:
Code:
Format                                   : Matroska
Format version                           : Version 2
File size                                : 8.16 GiB
Duration                                 : 1h 40mn
Overall bit rate                         : 11.6 Mbps
Encoded date                             : UTC 2012-10-26 05:56:58
Writing application                      : mkvmerge v5.7.0 ('The Whirlwind') built on Jul  8 2012 20:08:51
Writing library                          : libebml v1.2.3 + libmatroska v1.3.0

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High@L4.1
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames                : 2 frames
Codec ID                                 : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Duration                                 : 1h 40mn
Bit rate                                 : 10.3 Mbps
Width                                    : 1 920 pixels
Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate                               : 23.976 fps
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.208
Stream size                              : 7.28 GiB (89%)
Writing library                          : x264 core
Default                                  : Yes
Forced                                   : No
Color primaries                          : BT.709-5, BT.1361, IEC 61966-2-4, SMPTE RP177
Transfer characteristics                 : BT.709-5, BT.1361
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.709-5, BT.1361, IEC 61966-2-4 709, SMPTE RP177

Audio #1
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AC-3
Format/Info                              : Audio Coding 3
Mode extension                           : CM (complete main)
Format settings, Endianness              : Big
Codec ID                                 : A_AC3
Duration                                 : 1h 40mn
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 640 Kbps
Channel(s)                               : 6 channels
Channel positions                        : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth                                : 16 bits
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 462 MiB (6%)
Language                                 : English
Default                                  : Yes
Forced                                   : No

Reframe setting?

xnappo
Edited by xnappo - 3/8/13 at 8:44am
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post #6464 of 7562
3/8/13 at 8:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmp14 View Post

My Biggest echo Complaint:

That pause when skipping forward or skipping back. I am still primarily using my old Linksys because, for some unfathomable reason, the several years old Linksys recovers from skips forward and back almost immediately, while the echo takes what seems like a half second or so. Seems minor, but when you are skipping around a lot (I do) that delay makes it hard to "land" where you want. This has been mentioned elsewhere in this thread.

Again, Linksys is fast, so it is not my network. The echo reportedly has much newer, faster hardware, so why the delay?

I know this is minor, but for me, it is annoying enough to make me stick with the Linksys (which has its' own problems, of course).

When they first announced the echo, I asked Ceton some questions regarding if problems with the Linksys would persist in the echo, and they claimed the faster hardware should solve lots of problems. Ironically, this specific issue is slower on the echo. mad.gif

I would consider this a big problem from a usability perspective. Have you opened a support ticket on this referencing that this is still happening on the latest FW? If not, I would ASAP - I haven't tested this on mine yet...
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post #6465 of 7562
3/8/13 at 8:49am
@xnappo

I'm willing to bet those won't play due to the number of re-frames from previous reading. There's three parts to being too "intense" I think:

"High" Bit Rate (Define "High"?)
Variable Frame/Bit Rate
Number of Re-Frames.

I wouldn't rule out my codec settings either but I've followed the recommendations for them for Xboxen. I have had mkv's containing dts not lock up the echo recently. They didn't play but I also didn't have to re-boot it to make it usable again. I need to spend a little more time testing with this latest f/w this weekend.

Have you updated your NIC drivers? wink.gif
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post #6466 of 7562
3/8/13 at 8:51am
xnappo - Those are really low bitrate and am surprised they've never worked... would it be possible to post a short clip of those? In the misc settings in shark, there's a nifty utility that'll snag a 30 second clip - maybe you could do that and upload for some of us to try as well?
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post #6467 of 7562
3/8/13 at 8:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgrinch View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kmp14 View Post

My Biggest echo Complaint:

That pause when skipping forward or skipping back. I am still primarily using my old Linksys because, for some unfathomable reason, the several years old Linksys recovers from skips forward and back almost immediately, while the echo takes what seems like a half second or so. Seems minor, but when you are skipping around a lot (I do) that delay makes it hard to "land" where you want. This has been mentioned elsewhere in this thread.

Again, Linksys is fast, so it is not my network. The echo reportedly has much newer, faster hardware, so why the delay?

I know this is minor, but for me, it is annoying enough to make me stick with the Linksys (which has its' own problems, of course).

When they first announced the echo, I asked Ceton some questions regarding if problems with the Linksys would persist in the echo, and they claimed the faster hardware should solve lots of problems. Ironically, this specific issue is slower on the echo. mad.gif

I would consider this a big problem from a usability perspective. Have you opened a support ticket on this referencing that this is still happening on the latest FW? If not, I would ASAP - I haven't tested this on mine yet...

This is not an issue I have experienced in the past. It is "slightly" slower than the HTPC but not annoyingly slower.
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post #6468 of 7562
3/8/13 at 8:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgrinch View Post

xnappo - Those are really low bitrate and am surprised they've never worked... would it be possible to post a short clip of those? In the misc settings in shark, there's a nifty utility that'll snag a 30 second clip - maybe you could do that and upload for some of us to try as well?

Yes, do this. I will test too.
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post #6469 of 7562
3/8/13 at 8:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

@xnappo

I'm willing to bet those won't play due to the number of re-frames from previous reading. There's three parts to being too "intense" I think:

"High" Bit Rate (Define "High"?)
Variable Frame/Bit Rate
Number of Re-Frames.

I wouldn't rule out my codec settings either but I've followed the recommendations for them for Xboxen. I have had mkv's containing dts not lock up the echo recently. They didn't play but I also didn't have to re-boot it to make it usable again. I need to spend a little more time testing with this latest f/w this weekend.

Have you updated your NIC drivers? wink.gif

Hey Sammy - I never understood the Re-Frames; what does that reference exactly? I've done direct blu-ray rips that have a small number of re-frames so obviously it's not tied to bit-rate or anything...
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post #6470 of 7562
3/8/13 at 9:01am
Re-Frames is short for Reference Frames, those frames that predict to the player what is coming next. I suppose the player needs to have the cache settings higher to accommodate a high number of them but am not sure.. Another person over at TGB and the ceton beta forum before that was testing with re-encodes and found that having too many re-frames was not good for playback on the echo and probably the Xbox for that matter too. Of course, the more Re-frames you have the better the quality of playback because it is correlated to the amount of compression in the file.

EDIT:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reference_frame_(video)
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post #6471 of 7562
3/8/13 at 9:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

Re-Frames is short for Reference Frames, those frames that predict to the player what is coming next. I suppose the player needs to have the cache settings higher to accommodate a high number of them but am not sure.. Another person over at TGB and the ceton beta forum before that was testing with re-encodes and found that having too many re-frames was not good for playback on the echo and probably the Xbox for that matter too. Of course, the more Re-frames you have the better the quality of playback because it is correlated to the amount of compression in the file.

EDIT:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reference_frame_(video)

I am pretty sure that is the problem. It stalls when there is a scene change.

From Handbrake:
Quote:
Sane values are ~1-6.
The more you add, the better the compression, but the slower the encode.
Cel animation tends to benefit from more reference frames a lot more than film content.
Note that many hardware devices have limitations on the number of supported reference frames, so if you're encoding for a handheld or standalone player, don't touch this unless you're absolutely sure you know what you're doing!.

I will see what I can do re: examples.

xnappo
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post #6472 of 7562
3/8/13 at 9:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by erko View Post

I have the same issue, after skip forward/back or pausing the video comes back within 1/2 second but audio takes another 2 seconds. It is very frustrating because i always have to skip back an extra time after finding my spot. I know it doesnt sound like much, but those 2-3 seconds matter and other extenders do it fine. Hopefully on the fix it list at ceton. Echo is connected straight to samsung tv via hdmi.

I have the same thing except mine also has that extremely annoying digital "chirp/pop" in the audio when it's resumed from FF/RW. I'm on the latest beta, anyone know a quick fix before I submit a ticket or return this? My 360 smokes the doors off this thing as far as PQ, speed, stability, etc.!

Thanks for any help!
Dave
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post #6473 of 7562
3/8/13 at 10:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post

I have the same thing except mine also has that extremely annoying digital "chirp/pop" in the audio when it's resumed from FF/RW. I'm on the latest beta, anyone know a quick fix before I submit a ticket or return this?
I get that too on HDMI with bitstreaming on. If I switch to optical or turn off bitstreaming the popping stops.
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post #6474 of 7562
3/8/13 at 12:39pm
Thanks Ken! I remember trying turning off the bitstreaming, first thing I thought of and tried actually, but it didnt work. I can try again now that I went to the beta channel. I'm NOT going to optical and either solution to me is completely unacceptable for the cost of this thing. I have streamer boxes I paid $48 for that do it correctly!

Maybe I should update my NIC drivers? wink.gif
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post #6475 of 7562
3/8/13 at 1:16pm
I have updated my nic drivers several times already just in anticipation that I might actually plunk down for one of the many refurbs soon to hit eBay!

A round of free nic drivers to everyone.
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post #6476 of 7562
3/8/13 at 1:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post

Thanks Ken! I remember trying turning off the bitstreaming, first thing I thought of and tried actually, but it didnt work. I can try again now that I went to the beta channel. I'm NOT going to optical and either solution to me is completely unacceptable for the cost of this thing. I have streamer boxes I paid $48 for that do it correctly!
I just live with the pops. They'll get it figured out eventually. I don't remember having that trouble with the earlier firmware versions so I'm sure it's something that can be fixed. I know they have bigger issues to concentrate on so I'll be patient.
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post #6477 of 7562
3/8/13 at 1:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

A picture is worth a thousand words:



It looks no where near this bad on my echo but I see it sometimes.
Is that the same as "ghosting"? That secondary sort-of half-image is what I picture in my mind when I think of image ghosting.
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post #6478 of 7562
3/8/13 at 1:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken.F View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post

Thanks Ken! I remember trying turning off the bitstreaming, first thing I thought of and tried actually, but it didnt work. I can try again now that I went to the beta channel. I'm NOT going to optical and either solution to me is completely unacceptable for the cost of this thing. I have streamer boxes I paid $48 for that do it correctly!
I just live with the pops. They'll get it figured out eventually. I don't remember having that trouble with the earlier firmware versions so I'm sure it's something that can be fixed. I know they have bigger issues to concentrate on so I'll be patient.

Bigger like working Android versus preventing the echo from damaging ones speakers eek.gif
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post #6479 of 7562
3/8/13 at 1:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JorgeA View Post

Is that the same as "ghosting"? That secondary sort-of half-image is what I picture in my mind when I think of image ghosting.

Not really. That was an analog effect caused by signal reflections. Sorta looks the same but totally different cause technically.

xnappo
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post #6480 of 7562
3/8/13 at 1:50pm
No ghosting is usually caused by lag in the digital realm and signal reflections and impedance mismatches in analog. What you're seeing there is an interlacing issue where the 2 fields that make up a video frame aren't being de-interlaced properly.
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