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Official Ceton Echo Extender Info Thread - Page 217

post #6481 of 7593
3/8/13 at 1:50pm
Dang xnappo beat me to it!
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post #6482 of 7593
3/8/13 at 1:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mariob33 View Post

Bigger like working Android versus preventing the echo from damaging ones speakers eek.gif

Yeah it's pretty bad and certainly sounds like it can do some damage. My wife is like "WTF is THAT"?!?! When it happens, so going from 360s to the DirecTV Genie to THIS echo thing has been a step backwards IMO :-/
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post #6483 of 7593
3/8/13 at 2:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mariob33 View Post

Bigger like working Android versus preventing the echo from damaging ones speakers eek.gif
The pop isn't loud enough to damage anything, it's just annoying.

I'm sure they plan their priorities carefully. Ceton has more riding on the Echo than we do. They probably have too much invested in it to give up now.
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post #6484 of 7593
3/8/13 at 2:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post

Yeah it's pretty bad and certainly sounds like it can do some damage. My wife is like "WTF is THAT"?!?! When it happens, so going from 360s to the DirecTV Genie to THIS echo thing has been a step backwards IMO :-/
Maybe it's a different kind of pop for you? It's no louder than the TV program I'm watching.
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post #6485 of 7593
3/8/13 at 2:38pm
Yep way louder than the program on both my echos.
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post #6486 of 7593
3/8/13 at 2:46pm
Ghosting:



If you look closely at the image I posted earlier you can see the combs in the picture and that is why it is called combing. It is a problem with interlaced content. Ghosting is when the whole image "stays behind". I haven't seen ghosting on the echo. The combing on the echo is very slight but it is there if you look closely enough.
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post #6487 of 7593
3/8/13 at 2:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post

Yep way louder than the program on both my echos.
Ouch. I'd be more upset about that too.
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post #6488 of 7593
3/8/13 at 2:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

Ghosting is when the whole image "stays behind". I haven't seen ghosting on the echo. The combing on the echo is very slight but it is there if you look closely enough.
I always think of ghosting as the old analog multipath problem.
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post #6489 of 7593
3/8/13 at 2:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken.F View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

Ghosting is when the whole image "stays behind". I haven't seen ghosting on the echo. The combing on the echo is very slight but it is there if you look closely enough.
I always think of ghosting as the old analog multipath problem.

That is a good explanation. It is not one and the same with combing or jutter or stutter or macro blocking or tiling. These are all distinct although tiling and macro blocking are probably similar or the same.
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post #6490 of 7593
3/8/13 at 4:04pm
So I use mymovies exclusivly however it does NOT currently work with the Echo. If I was to convert my Movie collection to another file format so I could stream it what should I use? I am using an Epson Projector with a 120" screen if that matters.
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post #6491 of 7593
3/8/13 at 4:13pm
Why do you need to convert them? What format are they in now? MyMovies shouldn't have anything to do with this because it is only an aggregator and database manager for easily finding your movies.
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post #6492 of 7593
3/8/13 at 4:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

Why do you need to convert them? What format are they in now? MyMovies shouldn't have anything to do with this because it is only an aggregator and database manager for easily finding your movies.

He may be using the transcoder function built into the solution.
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post #6493 of 7593
3/8/13 at 5:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hevnbnd View Post

So I use mymovies exclusivly however it does NOT currently work with the Echo. If I was to convert my Movie collection to another file format so I could stream it what should I use? I am using an Epson Projector with a 120" screen if that matters.

smile.gif Nice choice in projector/screen setup - I am using the same.

Are you using the transcoder in MyMovies?

xnappo
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post #6494 of 7593
3/8/13 at 5:32pm
Yes transcoding. All movies are .ISO. Transcoding works GREAT on the 360. Just don't ff or rr. That does not always work that well.

Got an Epson 6020, a Sony 5800es, and a sony hx850. Watch the 850 for everything but movies. Works out great. Screen drops out of ceiling 1/2" in front of tv.
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post #6495 of 7593
3/8/13 at 5:42pm
Does transcoding reveal compression artifacts on a screen that large?

What audio format are you using?
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post #6496 of 7593
3/8/13 at 6:26pm
I actually just use the transcoding on a smaller 46" & 65" TV. Can see a little on the DLP but not much.
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post #6497 of 7593
3/8/13 at 8:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

Does transcoding reveal compression artifacts on a screen that large?

What audio format are you using?

Usually you transcode to an insane bitrate with an old-school codec. There is very little compression, but it requires GigE for sure. That is what I am using for stuff the Echo can't play via DLNA.
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post #6498 of 7593
3/8/13 at 8:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by xnappo View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

Does transcoding reveal compression artifacts on a screen that large?

What audio format are you using?

Usually you transcode to an insane bitrate with an old-school codec. There is very little compression, but it requires GigE for sure. That is what I am using for stuff the Echo can't play via DLNA.

What device are you using for this?
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post #6499 of 7593
3/8/13 at 8:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by xnappo View Post

That is what I am using for stuff the Echo can't play via DLNA.

On a Windows 8/Media Center PC, installation of my software supports DLNA playback of MKV files using the LAV filters. Subtitles are not supported. This is not possible on a Windows 7 PC. Although my software supports DLNA playback of MKV's on Windows 7, you are restricted to using the Windows Media Foundation components during DLNA playback.

I do not own an Echo for testing.
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post #6500 of 7593
3/8/13 at 9:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

What device are you using for this?

I am using my PS3, but the Echo with the 'free' version of tubecore can do it too - but it is a poor solution as it takes an entire PC worth of processing power to accomplish.

I will update on the ref frames thing in the AM - doing multiple experiments that are encoding now.

xnappo
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post #6501 of 7593
3/9/13 at 9:44am
Just an update regarding my .mkvs with high ref-frame settings - I re-encoded two times:

1. Constant frame rate, ref-frames=3, all other settings same as original encode
2. Variable frame rate, ref-frames=3, all other settings same as original encode

Both play just fine. At least now I can look at my mediainfo and know what will play and what won't.

I will submit a ticket against this.

xnappo
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post #6502 of 7593
3/9/13 at 9:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by xnappo View Post

Just an update regarding my .mkvs with high ref-frame settings - I re-encoded two times:

1. Constant frame rate, ref-frames=3, all other settings same as original encode
2. Variable frame rate, ref-frames=3, all other settings same as original encode

Both play just fine. At least now I can look at my mediainfo and know what will play and what won't.

I will submit a ticket against this.

xnappo

Thank you for your labors for sure!! This is what I think was already discovered and reported in both the tracker and ceton beta forums but most certainly submit a ticket to possibly remind ceton of this but I think they are already aware of it. I hope they are working a solution to it. I'm wondering if the Xbox or other extenders suffer from this too. If that is the case it just may be a limitation of the extender protocol and the only solution then would be the android for local media playback. Not ideal maybe but it would allow for a single device to playback CableTV and local content..
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post #6503 of 7593
3/9/13 at 9:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

Thank you for your labors for sure!! This is what I think was already discovered and reported in both the tracker and ceton beta forums but most certainly submit a ticket to possibly remind ceton of this but I think they are already aware of it. I hope they are working a solution to it. I'm wondering if the Xbox or other extenders suffer from this too. If that is the case it just may be a limitation of the extender protocol and the only solution then would be the android for local media playback. Not ideal maybe but it would allow for a single device to playback CableTV and local content..

There are far too many general tickets saying 'MKVs don't playback' without specifics, so I made one very specific to the reference frames.

These files play on the XBOX.

xnappo
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post #6504 of 7593
3/9/13 at 11:53am
That is good. I do remember James or Eric asking for some clips with various reframes on the beta forum but that was back in December or January.

How do these look when played on the echo? Any noticible artifacts or other compression issues?
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post #6505 of 7593
3/9/13 at 12:45pm
I doubt your going to see the maximum number of ref-frames supported on the Echo. Very few appliance support it, and very few files are encoded that way (at least not intentionally)

While some styles of animation may benefit by the use of higher ref-frames, live action content just simply doesn't benefit from it. Picture quality is negligible and compression barely improves above 4 ref-frames (which already works fine on the Echo) This is not just based on wikipedia info, this is from my own testing.

If you're worried about the quality remember this: Unmolested Bluray rips don't use that many ref-frames, so why would you?

I'm happy to see that it looks like Ceton is getting the VFR issue taken care of, and I'm hoping that they'll tackle the high bitrate (and VBR) issues next. That should address the vast majority users and libraries out there.

I've created lots of test encodes with high ref-frames, but I've never encountered anything from other sources that used more than 4 ref-frames. Not from bluray rips, not from paid websites, not from broadcast media, not from anywhere. Can anyone even point to a file that they didn't encode themselves that uses more than four ref-frames?

But as of right now, I'm happy to report that many more of my media files now play properly. The ones that don't seem to be related to bitrate issues. They are either unmolested BR rips, or CQ/VBR encodes that choke when they hit "complex" scenes.

But right now it looks like the Echo is approaching the XBox in terms of media compatibility.
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post #6506 of 7593
3/9/13 at 1:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajhieb View Post

I doubt your going to see the maximum number of ref-frames supported on the Echo. Very few appliance support it, and very few files are encoded that way (at least not intentionally)

While some styles of animation may benefit by the use of higher ref-frames, live action content just simply doesn't benefit from it. Picture quality is negligible and compression barely improves above 4 ref-frames (which already works fine on the Echo) This is not just based on wikipedia info, this is from my own testing.

If you're worried about the quality remember this: Unmolested Bluray rips don't use that many ref-frames, so why would you?

I'm happy to see that it looks like Ceton is getting the VFR issue taken care of, and I'm hoping that they'll tackle the high bitrate (and VBR) issues next. That should address the vast majority users and libraries out there.

I've created lots of test encodes with high ref-frames, but I've never encountered anything from other sources that used more than 4 ref-frames. Not from bluray rips, not from paid websites, not from broadcast media, not from anywhere. Can anyone even point to a file that they didn't encode themselves that uses more than four ref-frames?

But as of right now, I'm happy to report that many more of my media files now play properly. The ones that don't seem to be related to bitrate issues. They are either unmolested BR rips, or CQ/VBR encodes that choke when they hit "complex" scenes.

But right now it looks like the Echo is approaching the XBox in terms of media compatibility.

+1 Good to hear. Has anyone tested MP4, M4v and Divx/Xvid Avi with the latest update?
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post #6507 of 7593
3/9/13 at 3:22pm
I have a lot of standard def television shows that are either in MP4 (H.264/AAC) or AVI (XVID/MP3)and they've all played well for a while now.

I don't think I have any high def MP4's anymore, but I have a few 720p AVIs (XVID/AC3) that seem to play well .
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post #6508 of 7593
3/9/13 at 6:01pm
Missfire
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post #6509 of 7593
3/9/13 at 6:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtgray View Post

I have updated my nic drivers several times already just in anticipation that I might actually plunk down for one of the many refurbs soon to hit eBay!

A round of free nic drivers to everyone.
Make mine a double
Edited by crash2009 - 3/9/13 at 6:20pm
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post #6510 of 7593
3/9/13 at 9:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajhieb View Post

I doubt your going to see the maximum number of ref-frames supported on the Echo. Very few appliance support it, and very few files are encoded that way (at least not intentionally)

I will just say that this is not my experience (re: number of files with such encoding), and that the current XBMC ARM boxes have no problem with these files.

xnappo

[EDIT] Just because it annoys me when people tell me something is not a problem and I am doing it wrong - every Android device in my house (and there are a lot) can play it just fine - including the 1st generation Galaxy Tab 10". I don't think it is unreasonable to expect a 2012 device to support all x264 encode settings.
Edited by xnappo - 3/10/13 at 8:54am
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