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Official Ceton Echo Extender Info Thread - Page 236  

post #7051 of 7721
I fortunately do not have any channels that have this problem. And it is 1080i channels with mis-marked metadata in the stream that causes this problem. Typically, 720p content is 60fps and does not cause a problem.
post #7052 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

I fortunately do not have any channels that have this problem. And it is 1080i channels with mis-marked metadata in the stream that causes this problem. Typically, 720p content is 60fps and does not cause a problem.

Since you do not have this problem on your cable system, perhaps this is a key reason why your Echo is performing smoothly compared to some of the others. I understand this issue may not be easy to overcome. My ATI 5570 video card has to have post processing turned off to allow it handle this b.s.The Xbox seems to be able to handle the problem, but it is a high powered gaming console. The lowly cable STB has no issue as well so it is something the cable operator is doing by design or since it doesn't affect the STB they don't care.
post #7053 of 7721
I'm actually not seeing the frame rate jump back and forth at all (as I understand the 29/59 issue to be). My "problem" channels are steady at the 29.97 rate, 1080p. My first goal at looking at this was to determine if the bit rate was higher on my problematic channels (after hearing about VBR playback issues), but it is not ... for me, the problem channels can be pinned as being the 29.97 Hz rate.

I agree that Sammy might be lucky and none of his channels are pushed down the pipe at this frame rate. The little I understand of cable systems across this country, is that at minimum it's safe to say that there's a hodge-podge of stuff going on from one system to another. If anybody else is from here, I'm in Albuquerque.

Also, as I understand the 29/59 bug, as the video is being rendered by the HTPC it would be a whole-system-problem (observable on the HTPC, the Xbox's, and the Echo). In this case, only the Echo has issues with this frame rate. If I had to guess, I'd think that there's some "walking" (aliasing) occuring in how Ceton handles this frame rate in a buffer somewhere.
post #7054 of 7721
I think it is that they don't know. I had Starz by accident for a while and my GT 430 showed it a little too.
post #7055 of 7721
I remember some other people mentioning various movie channels (particularly HBO) were not working - any chance you guys can take a look at the frame rate on these channels?

I understand that 29.97 is historically significant (analog interlaced), but that film is/was historically recorded at 24 fps. This difference (not just one frame per second but rather six) actually looks about right in what I'm seeing. As in, I'm wondering if the broadcast channel is doing something (repeating frames from 24 to fit 29.97) that is basically "ghetto", but that somehow the HTPC and Xbox know to watch for and compensate? Grasping at straws here, I realize. I'm just trying to imagine what I'd do if faced with taking a given input and told to make it fit into an output.
post #7056 of 7721
I have been reading this thread for several months so I know many users aren't happy. But I also saw some saying that for basic WMC functions it worked for them, so I bought one. That is all I need. I am looking for the whole home PVR solution.

Here is my experience so far: It plays music stored in WMA lossless or MP3, photos, mkv home videos, shows the channel guide, moves about in the channel guide and does all of these things in a responsive manner.

BUT - when playing live or recorded TV, nearly any remote command freezes the video. I turn it off to restart it and on occasion while booting up It has given a screen that says "Play Ready" install is incomplete but eventually plays live TV. I might get one channel change but if I change again it locks up. More often is locks up with any remote command while playing live or recorded TV.

I searched the thread and thought I remembered someone asking about freeze ups after remote commands but could not find it.

I have submitted a support ticket but there will not be a response until next week.

Has anyone encountered this? Anyone solved it?
post #7057 of 7721
Issues with PlayReady are on the host HTPC and not the echo.
post #7058 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

Issues with PlayReady are on the host HTPC and not the echo.
Where does it live? How does one update it?
post #7059 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by dabretty View Post

I'm actually not seeing the frame rate jump back and forth at all (as I understand the 29/59 issue to be). My "problem" channels are steady at the 29.97 rate, 1080p. My first goal at looking at this was to determine if the bit rate was higher on my problematic channels (after hearing about VBR playback issues), but it is not ... for me, the problem channels can be pinned as being the 29.97 Hz rate.

24Hz frame rate is from film based sources, 29.97 is interlaced (480, 1080) and the 59.94 is progressive. They use a process called "inverse telecine" to convert 24Hz film into video based frame rates (29 interlaced, 59 progressive). It appears to me this process is broken in the system, most likely the echo.
post #7060 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by lfox View Post

Where does it live? How does one update it?
Found it. Checking out the results.
post #7061 of 7721
Any chance you know what frame rate was used? (411, Ctrl-D on the main HTPC while playing your recording) I'm convinced you're going to find 29.97 ... which would put you in the same boat as me with crappy, stutter-filled video on movie-centric channels.

I can't imagine that Ceton hasn't already been hearing about this. And yes, I told them about my experience in a ticket long ago, and received a generic response to "try the next firmware." Ceton - want us to upload short video samples somewhere of these recordings?
post #7062 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by dabretty View Post

Any chance you know what frame rate was used? (411, Ctrl-D on the main HTPC while playing your recording) I'm convinced you're going to find 29.97 ... which would put you in the same boat as me with crappy, stutter-filled video on movie-centric channels.

I can't imagine that Ceton hasn't already been hearing about this. And yes, I told them about my experience in a ticket long ago, and received a generic response to "try the next firmware." Ceton - want us to upload short video samples somewhere of these recordings?

I will check tonight.
post #7063 of 7721
Is there a configuration that allows MKVs to play on the Echo like they do on the Xbox? Just curious if I need to be prepared to load other codecs or make other config changes on the HTPC to allow the Echo to play MKVs ... which are obviously pretty prolific.
post #7064 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by dabretty View Post

Any chance you know what frame rate was used? (411, Ctrl-D on the main HTPC while playing your recording) I'm convinced you're going to find 29.97 ... which would put you in the same boat as me with crappy, stutter-filled video on movie-centric channels.

I can't imagine that Ceton hasn't already been hearing about this. And yes, I told them about my experience in a ticket long ago, and received a generic response to "try the next firmware." Ceton - want us to upload short video samples somewhere of these recordings?

I submitted a ticket for (1) the 29/59 frame rate issue, (2) the 29 frame rate with movies and (3) Handbrake encoded H.264 files into the bug tracker. Now I have a support ticket open for quite some time with regard to the first two items. The problem is I can not separate the two issues since all movies on my premium channels have the 29/59 frame rate issue and are 1080i/29. Ceton has requested and I have provided logs, Ceton tool output etc. They keep going back to find me an unprotected recording to send (FTP) over. The problem is for me that does not exist.
post #7065 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillBragg View Post

Is there a configuration that allows MKVs to play on the Echo like they do on the Xbox? Just curious if I need to be prepared to load other codecs or make other config changes on the HTPC to allow the Echo to play MKVs ... which are obviously pretty prolific.

I am sure that as soon as this is figured out it will be posted..
post #7066 of 7721
Ceton is pulling the 2013.320.1349 firmware to investigate the issues. The following is a quote from my support ticket:

" We've actually pulled the latest beta update as we investigate some reports regarding it. In the meantime, we're going to have you revert your Echo. "
post #7067 of 7721
Revert to what?
post #7068 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

Revert to what?
When you do the recovery it reverts to a very early firmware version. I don't remember exactly what version you get, but it's old.
post #7069 of 7721
Are you kidding me!? 'Spammed Advertisements' infraction... It wasn't 'spammed', and it wasn't an advertisement. ...tongue meet cheek!

...as far as the reverting to earlier F/W goes, I am very interested in this. Please post details.
post #7070 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by th3Pil0t View Post

...as far as the reverting to earlier F/W goes, I am very interested in this. Please post details.
Ceton gave me a link to download a recovery program. I had to connect the Echo to a HDMI display and use the USB power cable without the brick to connect the Echo to my PC's USB port. I ran the recovery program on the PC, then punched in 10 numbers on the Echo remote, then the Echo went into a recovery operation. When finished the Echo had an old firmware version installed. I could then update from that old firmware version to the latest stable or beta version. If they already pulled the beta I guess you can only update to the latest stable version.
post #7071 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by th3Pil0t View Post

Are you kidding me!? 'Spammed Advertisements' infraction... It wasn't 'spammed', and it wasn't an advertisement. ...tongue meet cheek!

...as far as the reverting to earlier F/W goes, I am very interested in this. Please post details.

My guess is they want me to revert my Echo to any earlier firmware. Since the latest has been pulled, it could be the previous beta. Once you go through the restore process the Echo gets the last stable beta (more or less). Below are the restore instructions posted on the web. You will have to open a ticket or PM a Ceton forum member to get access to the restore.

1.) Download http://cetoncorp.com/downloads/ctnechorecovery.exe to a Windows 7 computer.
2.) Plug Echo into your Windows 7 PC using the USB power cable included with the Echo.
Please note: Make sure your Echo is hooked up to the network, as internet access is required for recovery.
Please note: Recovery status information is displayed during recovery via HDMI, so connect a display if possible
3.) Turn off Echo with remote.
4.) Run ctnechorecovery.exe.
5.) Use the Echo remote to enter in this number sequence: 2065489548 (If sequence was entered correctly the Echo will power on, and have three (3) solid red lights below the logo)
Please note: You can hit zero (0) at least 10+ times to clear out any failed attempts. Be steady, with no pauses when entering the code.
6.) Please be patient as the tool attempts to recover your device. Do not unplug your Echo from the internet or your PC during this process. We have already pre-approved your Echo's MAC address. Once you see the check HDMI output message in the recovery tool, keep an eye on your TV. You should see the message "Connecting to Ceton..." followed by a screen indicating the recovery status shortly afterwards. Once this completes, your Echo will restart.
Please note: If you are stuck on the screen "Connecting to Ceton...", please leave the unit alone, update your ticket verifying your MAC address, and we will re-approve your download. It should move into the recovery process shortly after.
7.) Once you have finished the recovery process, please unplug your Echo from your PC and use the supplied Ceton USB power brick shipped your Echo from that point forward.

As I've already gone through this process once, I'm leaving my Echo as is until the next firmware release. I'm only interested in watching Game of Thrones on premiums at this time, so I can live with the stutter. I may have to buy an Apple TV3 to watch my collection though.
post #7072 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken.F View Post

Ceton gave me a link to download a recovery program. I had to connect the Echo to a HDMI display and use the USB power cable without the brick to connect the Echo to my PC's USB port. I ran the recovery program on the PC, then punched in 10 numbers on the Echo remote, then the Echo went into a recovery operation. When finished the Echo had an old firmware version installed. I could then update from that old firmware version to the latest stable or beta version. If they already pulled the beta I guess you can only update to the latest stable version.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shortcut3d View Post

My guess is they want me to revert my Echo to any earlier firmware. Since the latest has been pulled, it could be the previous beta. Once you go through the restore process the Echo gets the last stable beta (more or less). Below are the restore instructions posted on the web. You will have to open a ticket or PM a Ceton forum member to get access to the restore.

1.) Download http://cetoncorp.com/downloads/ctnechorecovery.exe to a Windows 7 computer.
2.) Plug Echo into your Windows 7 PC using the USB power cable included with the Echo.
Please note: Make sure your Echo is hooked up to the network, as internet access is required for recovery.
Please note: Recovery status information is displayed during recovery via HDMI, so connect a display if possible
3.) Turn off Echo with remote.
4.) Run ctnechorecovery.exe.
5.) Use the Echo remote to enter in this number sequence: 2065489548 (If sequence was entered correctly the Echo will power on, and have three (3) solid red lights below the logo)
Please note: You can hit zero (0) at least 10+ times to clear out any failed attempts. Be steady, with no pauses when entering the code.
6.) Please be patient as the tool attempts to recover your device. Do not unplug your Echo from the internet or your PC during this process. We have already pre-approved your Echo's MAC address. Once you see the check HDMI output message in the recovery tool, keep an eye on your TV. You should see the message "Connecting to Ceton..." followed by a screen indicating the recovery status shortly afterwards. Once this completes, your Echo will restart.
Please note: If you are stuck on the screen "Connecting to Ceton...", please leave the unit alone, update your ticket verifying your MAC address, and we will re-approve your download. It should move into the recovery process shortly after.
7.) Once you have finished the recovery process, please unplug your Echo from your PC and use the supplied Ceton USB power brick shipped your Echo from that point forward.

As I've already gone through this process once, I'm leaving my Echo as is until the next firmware release. I'm only interested in watching Game of Thrones on premiums at this time, so I can live with the stutter. I may have to buy an Apple TV3 to watch my collection though.

Yeah I've been through that back in November when I originally got my first Echo and it wouldn't update via the web, and then bricked itself. My guess is the package installs an earlier F/W and then once it's up and running you can update to the latest again (or not, if they have pulled the latest...)
post #7073 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by shortcut3d View Post

I submitted a ticket for (1) the 29/59 frame rate issue, (2) the 29 frame rate with movies and (3) Handbrake encoded H.264 files into the bug tracker. Now I have a support ticket open for quite some time with regard to the first two items. The problem is I can not separate the two issues since all movies on my premium channels have the 29/59 frame rate issue and are 1080i/29. Ceton has requested and I have provided logs, Ceton tool output etc. They keep going back to find me an unprotected recording to send (FTP) over. The problem is for me that does not exist.

Well that is pretty disappointing to hear that they have known about this for so long and haven't been able to fix it. I don't have the 29/59 rate from what I can tell (the info screen does not flicker back and forth, it just reads 29.97). Unfortunately, I am in the same boat as you with not being able to give an unprotected recording ... I just checked mine, and they're all protected.
post #7074 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by dabretty View Post

Any chance you know what frame rate was used? (411, Ctrl-D on the main HTPC while playing your recording) I'm convinced you're going to find 29.97 ... which would put you in the same boat as me with crappy, stutter-filled video on movie-centric channels.

I can't imagine that Ceton hasn't already been hearing about this. And yes, I told them about my experience in a ticket long ago, and received a generic response to "try the next firmware." Ceton - want us to upload short video samples somewhere of these recordings?

Yep. 29 to 59 cycling on HBOHD (Comcast 460 in Houston, TX). It doesn't look too bad on the HTPC, but on the echo is horrendous.
post #7075 of 7721
That stinks. I don't have HBO (yet) but am guessing that I'd have the same issue here. FWIW, the 29.97 issue has always been an issue for me with other channels ... so reverting to an earlier firmware wouldn't accomplish anything. I think they just flat out don't know how to deal with this, or up in Washington they just happen to not have this issue in their broadcasts ...

Ceton - care to comment on where you are wih this issue?
post #7076 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by dabretty View Post

... so reverting to an earlier firmware wouldn't accomplish anything.

I think I want to test this. It seems to me that the latest Beta has made this issue a lot worse. I don't recall it being this bad in previous F/W. However, I might have just not been watching HBO much and didn't realize it was that bad...
post #7077 of 7721
Thanks. This thread is so long I couldn't tell if we had passed by some MKV fix and I just missed it. My Echo is in the RMA process and I just want to be prepared when it comes back.
post #7078 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by dabretty View Post

Ceton - care to comment on where you are wih this issue?

I finally got around to opening a support ticket for this issue this morning. So I guess I'll jump through a few hoops for them and see if I can help out debug this.
post #7079 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by th3Pil0t View Post

I finally got around to opening a support ticket for this issue this morning. So I guess I'll jump through a few hoops for them and see if I can help out debug this.

My fear with this is that they cannot see it via their diagnostics. My first ticket on this subject resulted in them telling me that they saw that there were some audio issues (and to update to the next firmware as it became available). I wish I had an unprotected channel that this was occurring on, to be able to send them a sample ... but I'm not sure that anyone will, as they are most likely movie channels (most likely to be protected, I'm guessing).

At the end of the day, though, I can't imagine that they haven't been able to observe this on their own somewhere. If not, they should just buy a plane ticket and come pay one of us a visit for an hour.
post #7080 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by dabretty View Post

I wish I had an unprotected channel that this was occurring on, to be able to send them a sample ... but I'm not sure that anyone will, as they are most likely movie channels (most likely to be protected, I'm guessing).
Try this one: http://www.filedropper.com/stuttersample (743 MB)
It's a 7:16 sample cut from the movie Due Date recorded on HBO.
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