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Official Ceton Echo Extender Info Thread - Page 252  

post #7531 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by xnappo View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by reggie14 View Post

And run it on what? How many Echo-like Android boxes are out there? I suppose you could do a GoogleTV app, but from what I understand not all GoogleTV boxes will play mpeg2.

Besides, they're having a hard enough time getting good video playback support on hardware that was built for this (sort of).

Err - there are a TON of Android TV boxes and sticks out there!

AMAZON

I didn't look at a ton of them, but the ones I did do support Hulu.

xnappo

There is a difference in being able to do Hulu versus being a supported Hulu Plus device. Hulu Plus itself only lists a limited number of supported devices. So many of these other thingies are well unsupported or rely on a browser type of access to work. This would basically mean any changes to Hulu Plus could break these secondary market supported devices. iirc there was an issue at one point with one of these types of setups where the dev decided it was no longer worth his effort to support.

http://www.hulu.com/plus/devices
post #7532 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsurkin View Post

But back to the Echo: I saw on the info page for the IT6 tuner that Ceton recommends a 7200 RPM hard drive. The hard drive in my HTPC is a Samsung 2TB drive, "eco" model, which is 5400 or 5900 RPM (I forget which). When I bought it, I had remembered reading that the media cevices with built-in drives, such as Tivo, Moxi, SciAtl, all used 5400 hard drives, so I thought this would be sufficient. Now I'm wondering: could the slower hard drive be a factor in some of the stuttering? Or are there people with stuttering who are using 7200 RPM drives?

You mean the disk speed could potentially be a bottle neck versus you network bandwidth?
post #7533 of 7721
Using the math for network, that would be 20MB/s write for a hard drive. Streams are largely sequential, so most hard drives should have no problem. Hard drives are often quoted as the burst sequential speed. I use a 2TB 2.5" drive 5400RPM for recording and have no issues with the SD 6CC and Xbox360. Most channels the Echo is fine. The stutter happens to be on 29/59 frame rate content.
post #7534 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by mariob33 View Post

There is a difference in being able to do Hulu versus being a supported Hulu Plus device. Hulu Plus itself only lists a limited number of supported devices. So many of these other thingies are well unsupported or rely on a browser type of access to work. This would basically mean any changes to Hulu Plus could break these secondary market supported devices. iirc there was an issue at one point with one of these types of setups where the dev decided it was no longer worth his effort to support.

http://www.hulu.com/plus/devices

I stand corrected. Hulu is being lame about it. There are hacked APKs out there to let it work on any Android device, but I didn't realize they were locking down Plus officially.

xnappo
post #7535 of 7721
DRM I suppose is the reason for the lockdown. The echo might be a device for hulu plus if ceton conforms to the DRM requirements for Hulu and their providers.
post #7536 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by shortcut3d View Post

Using the math for network, that would be 20MB/s write for a hard drive. Streams are largely sequential, so most hard drives should have no problem. Hard drives are often quoted as the burst sequential speed. I use a 2TB 2.5" drive 5400RPM for recording and have no issues with the SD 6CC and Xbox360. Most channels the Echo is fine. The stutter happens to be on 29/59 frame rate content.

I think Ceton is trying to look out for the worst case scenario...

If you were actually recording six streams simultaneously, (unless hard drive writing has changed significantly over the last several years) those streams will effectively be "interlaced" when they are written. (not the video itself, but the bitstreams, eg: you'll get a chunk from stream1, then a chunk from stream2, all the way through stream6, at which point you'll have another chunk to write from stream1, etc.) That isn't a huge deal until somebody decides to start watching a previously recorded program or a program delayed in the live TV buffer. This will result in a tremendous amount of seeking. It get's exponentially worse with every extender you add (that happens to be viewing recorded or not-quite-live TV)

Granted that isn't what I would consider "typical" usage, but it certainly isn't hard to envision a scenario where a hard drive is getting hammered.

Even if you recorded everything one day, defragged overnight and watched everything the next day, your Live TV buffer is going to kill you with 6 streams going at once. There really isn't any way around that, that I can think of (at least not with platter style hard drives)

I have a 64GB SSD for the OS and 4x640MB RAID-0 (2.5" 5400 RPM drives) for the live tv buffer and recorded tv. Yes, it's overkill, but I've yet to have a hiccup with any live/recorded TV with 2xInfiniTV4s going at once.
post #7537 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by shortcut3d View Post

Using the math for network, that would be 20MB/s write for a hard drive. Streams are largely sequential, so most hard drives should have no problem. Hard drives are often quoted as the burst sequential speed. I use a 2TB 2.5" drive 5400RPM for recording and have no issues with the SD 6CC and Xbox360. Most channels the Echo is fine. The stutter happens to be on 29/59 frame rate content.
Thank you, and also thanks to ajhieb for his comments. But in addition to Echo problems, I have had some programs that stutter when played back on my HTPC (I optimized all applicable network settings, but I seem to have a non-reproducible problem with cable reception, that may be related to weather affecting Cablevision's signal splitter on the utility pole).
post #7538 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsurkin View Post

Thank you, and also thanks to ajhieb for his comments. But in addition to Echo problems, I have had some programs that stutter when played back on my HTPC (I optimized all applicable network settings, but I seem to have a non-reproducible problem with cable reception, that may be related to weather affecting Cablevision's signal splitter on the utility pole).

I had a similar issue out here in Cablevision West territory. I just installed an inline amp that feeds my InfiniTV4, and that solved my issues.
post #7539 of 7721
Is anyone using MoCA with the echo? If so, what MoCA hardware?
post #7540 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by th3Pil0t View Post

Is anyone using MoCA with the echo? If so, what MoCA hardware?

I retired my Echos until they get the firmware more stable, but while using them, I was using Actiontec ECB2500C at the Echo end, and an Actiontec MI424WR gigabit router without any apparent network issues. I was also using am Electroline drop amp and a MoCa filter that I had to search high and low for (and can't recall where I got it at the moment)
post #7541 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajhieb View Post

I retired my Echos until they get the firmware more stable, but while using them, I was using Actiontec ECB2500C at the Echo end, and an Actiontec MI424WR gigabit router without any apparent network issues. I was also using am Electroline drop amp and a MoCa filter that I had to search high and low for (and can't recall where I got it at the moment)

Good info, thanks! I was looking at the Netgear stuff, but it looks to be discontinued. I think I'll give the Actiontec a go.

I'm not that familiar with MoCA, can I run multiple Echos in different rooms over MoCA from the host PC?

E.g. Buy 3 x ECB2500C and connect one at the HTPC and one at each of my two Echos?
post #7542 of 7721
You can do that.

The thing is that no matter how robust your network the echo does not seem to have much fault tolererance. Every device on my network works fine, including my HDHR Prime which connects to the same HTPC that the echo does through the same NIC. The echo is th only device on my network that drops signal.
post #7543 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

You can do that.

The thing is that no matter how robust your network the echo does not seem to have much fault tolererance. Every device on my network works fine, including my HDHR Prime which connects to the same HTPC that the echo does through the same NIC. The echo is th only device on my network that drops signal.

Hmm...I haven't had 'signal drop' as an issue in my old setup. Are you referring to complete network disconnect? Or slow down? I imagine MoCA will be ok if I can squeeze out 30Mbit/s per Echo. From what I've read, 100Mbit/s (total throughput) isn't uncommon over MoCA...
post #7544 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by th3Pil0t View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajhieb View Post

I retired my Echos until they get the firmware more stable, but while using them, I was using Actiontec ECB2500C at the Echo end, and an Actiontec MI424WR gigabit router without any apparent network issues. I was also using am Electroline drop amp and a MoCa filter that I had to search high and low for (and can't recall where I got it at the moment)

Good info, thanks! I was looking at the Netgear stuff, but it looks to be discontinued. I think I'll give the Actiontec a go.

I'm not that familiar with MoCA, can I run multiple Echos in different rooms over MoCA from the host PC?

E.g. Buy 3 x ECB2500C and connect one at the HTPC and one at each of my two Echos?

I use the same setup. Except I have the Rev G of the router. The only watch out is if you have more than 7 moca devices on your network the 8th device to request a ip may not get one. The fios version of the actiontec router for some reason only supported 7 ip addresses. Keep in mind hat each device including cable boxes/router counts as a network object requiring an ip. I never saw any network issuses with this equipment setup and echo. The echo crashed occasionally but nothing network wise.
post #7545 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by th3Pil0t View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

You can do that.

The thing is that no matter how robust your network the echo does not seem to have much fault tolererance. Every device on my network works fine, including my HDHR Prime which connects to the same HTPC that the echo does through the same NIC. The echo is th only device on my network that drops signal.

Hmm...I haven't had 'signal drop' as an issue in my old setup. Are you referring to complete network disconnect? Or slow down? I imagine MoCA will be ok if I can squeeze out 30Mbit/s per Echo. From what I've read, 100Mbit/s (total throughput) isn't uncommon over MoCA...

I see 80-90 all day long. I use the actiontec in a closet with my Xbox as well no problems.
post #7546 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by mariob33 View Post

I use the same setup. Except I have the Rev G of the router. The only watch out is if you have more than 7 moca devices on your network the 8th device to request a ip may not get one. The fios version of the actiontec router for some reason only supported 7 ip addresses. Keep in mind hat each device including cable boxes/router counts as a network object requiring an ip. I never saw any network issuses with this equipment setup and echo. The echo crashed occasionally but nothing network wise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by th3Pil0t View Post

Good info, thanks! I was looking at the Netgear stuff, but it looks to be discontinued. I think I'll give the Actiontec a go.

I'm not that familiar with MoCA, can I run multiple Echos in different rooms over MoCA from the host PC?

E.g. Buy 3 x ECB2500C and connect one at the HTPC and one at each of my two Echos?

Depends on the revision, which depends on which MoCA is supported.

MoCA 1.0 I believe supported 8 devices (130 Mbps), MoCA 1.1 should support 16 devices (300 Mbps?), MoCA 2.0 supports more devices at 1 Gbps.

You can mix and match, but, if you have just one device that is older, then the whole network reverts to the lowest supported standard. i.e. you have 4 devices that are MoCA 1.1, and you have 1 device that MoCA 1.0, then the whole network is limited to the 1.0 standard.
post #7547 of 7721
I just used my old DirecTV DeCA boxes as network coax interfaces. Keep in mind if you do this, once you put it in place, everything down stream on the coax shouldn't have an RF cable signal on it since DTV's version of MoCA (DECA) runs at the same frequencies as cable and will interfere, but if its just extenders downstream it's a moot point. They don't need the raw cable feed anyway, just the server pc/network cable tuner does. They're way cheaper too, but you'll also need the power supplies since they normally get power from the receivers.
post #7548 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post

I just used my old DirecTV DeCA boxes as network coax interfaces. Keep in mind if you do this, once you put it in place, everything down stream on the coax shouldn't have an RF cable signal on it since DTV's version of MoCA (DECA) runs at the same frequencies as cable and will interfere, but if its just extenders downstream it's a moot point. They don't need the raw cable feed anyway, just the server pc/network cable tuner does. They're way cheaper too, but you'll also need the power supplies since they normally get power from the receivers.
What a great idea! Just so I understand correctly, I plug the broadband DECA box into my router and coax going to my extenders and one power supply. Then I connect a DECA ethernet adapter at each extender (no power supply required). I don't need the pigtail at that end either, correct? Can it be open, or should I put a 75 ohm terminator on it? Also, I assume the power inserter can go anywhere, at the router end or at the any of the extenders, correct?

Thanks
post #7549 of 7721
No, you need a deca power supply (not power inserter, that supplies power to the SWiM)

I use these:

http://www.amazon.com/DIRECTV-Ethernet-Coax-Adapter-DECA1MR01/dp/B0041INCYI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1368564956&sr=8-1&keywords=DECA

With these power supplies:

http://www.amazon.com/POWER-SUPPLY-PS18DER0-03-NETWORKING-DIRECTV/dp/B003ZMH6DO/ref=pd_sim_pc_6

You need one of each at every location, server, extender, etc. Together they act just like a MoCA adapter, only modulated on different freqs. The power adapter uses the coax plug to power the DECA. The other end goes to the ethernet and your house coax to get the signal from the server. It works in both directions to feed and extract the ethernet signal.
post #7550 of 7721
I will just say that I was a *huge* proponent of ethernet over coax for years - but the lack of GigE speeds *will* have you always wondering.

I spent many months contemplating how to run actual Cat6 in my house(recommended - don't just 'go for it'), and spent about 8 hours in the attic etc... And it is well worth it. Real Cat6 is is sooooo much better than any coax/powerline/wireless solution!

xnappo
post #7551 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post

No, you need a deca power supply (not power inserter, that supplies power to the SWiM)
Thanks for the clarification. Found everything I need on ebay for a couple of rooms for about $30 total. Beats the heck out of $160 for a pair of Moca adapters.
Quote:
Originally Posted by xnappo View Post

I spent many months contemplating how to run actual Cat6 in my house(recommended - don't just 'go for it'), and spent about 8 hours in the attic etc... And it is well worth it. Real Cat6 is is sooooo much better than any coax/powerline/wireless solution!

xnappo
I have too, but still have no solution a mere mortal like me can pull off. I'll have to get by with powerline (and Moca very soon).
post #7552 of 7721
No problem! Hope it all works for you. Mine does without issue. I also split it out in the living room to a switch first to supply Ethernet to all my other devices too.
post #7553 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by xnappo View Post

I will just say that I was a *huge* proponent of ethernet over coax for years - but the lack of GigE speeds *will* have you always wondering.

I spent many months contemplating how to run actual Cat6 in my house(recommended - don't just 'go for it'), and spent about 8 hours in the attic etc... And it is well worth it. Real Cat6 is is sooooo much better than any coax/powerline/wireless solution!

xnappo

I will definitely do this when I buy a house. I am in a rental house for at least the next year and MoCA is a good interim solution as they have coax to nearly all rooms already.
post #7554 of 7721
I will say this, I've tried using Netgears 500Mb "AV" Powerline adapters to connect 2 Echos.. and the results are very mixed. When it works, it works. But often, the Echos will punch back to a screen showing the 8 digit code; sometimes they will lock up entirely. The adapters need to be unplugged and plugged back in frequently. VERY annoying stuff.
post #7555 of 7721
Same here. I have to reboot all my power line adapters about once a week.
post #7556 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdavej View Post

Same here. I have to reboot all my power line adapters about once a week.

Yeah, like I said in the MoCA thread - MoCA *is* absolutely the best solution if you absolutely cannot run Cat6.

xnappo
post #7557 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by xnappo View Post

Yeah, like I said in the MoCA thread - MoCA *is* absolutely the best solution if you absolutely cannot run Cat6.

xnappo

+1 - I had to use Netgear MOCA adapters on one of the extender runs for my parents setup and there's been zero manual intervention with those once I initially plugged them in. Granted, I have no other coax runs attached to that run (think point to point) so not sure if that attributes to the worry-free experience.
post #7558 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmservo View Post

I will say this, I've tried using Netgears 500Mb "AV" Powerline adapters to connect 2 Echos.. and the results are very mixed. When it works, it works. But often, the Echos will punch back to a screen showing the 8 digit code; sometimes they will lock up entirely. The adapters need to be unplugged and plugged back in frequently. VERY annoying stuff.

Did you try them without the powerline adapters? I'd say those two problems are common to all Echos regardless of network connection methods. Powerline adapters are prone to power line noises from other appliances and 500mbps version is even more sensitive than 200mbps version.
post #7559 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmservo View Post

I will say this, I've tried using Netgears 500Mb "AV" Powerline adapters to connect 2 Echos.. and the results are very mixed. When it works, it works. But often, the Echos will punch back to a screen showing the 8 digit code; sometimes they will lock up entirely. The adapters need to be unplugged and plugged back in frequently. VERY annoying stuff.

Your experience matches the experience I've seen from other customers. About 1/3 love powerline, about 2/3 can't get it to work reliably.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat121 View Post

Did you try them without the powerline adapters? I'd say those two problems are common to all Echos regardless of network connection methods. Powerline adapters are prone to power line noises from other appliances and 500mbps version is even more sensitive than 200mbps version.

I've seen a few support tickets come through with this exact situation where we determined that the powerline adapters were not faithfully passing traffic - it sounds like that's the case here.
post #7560 of 7721
I'll weigh in here as someone who has successfully been using powerline adapters to bridge to the echo in the upstairs bedroom from the switch in the downstairs living room. I'm using the Zyxel 500Mbps adapters, think they were around $75 on Newegg and get good reviews on speed test sites. I've only had to reboot them (unplug and plug them back in) twice since I got them about 6 months ago.
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