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Official Ceton Echo Extender Info Thread - Page 257  

post #7681 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

That is not what is being exposed as a lie. Try again, you failed here. I will give you a hit, the incorrect word you decided to use is "killing" and the word which is a lie is starts with "aban". You can find it fast if you read my quote from mdavej.

Do you even have and Echo? What is your purpose in being here other than to argue with people?

Welcome to my ignore list.
post #7682 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajhieb View Post

Back to something a little more relevant...

I decided to see how the MediaBrowser3 beta was looking so I installed it on my laptop and and pulled one of my Echo's out of mothballs to see how it would do on an extender...

Plugged the Echo in and it immediately went to the "recovering" screen. Nice to know that sitting in a drawer will hose one of these things. After several minutes it came back with an old December 2012 Firmware, and wanted to upgrade. I updated the firmware again to the March firmware and got it connected to proper WMC.

The good news is it kinda worked, as I was able to get a few videos to play, but the bad news is it didn't work very well. It was nowhere close to being a useful configuration. I'm willing to say that it is mostly on MB3 right now as it's officially in beta (as opposed to the de facto beta of the Echo) but at this point I'm not willing to take one of my xboxen off of regular extender duty to see where the problems lie.

But like I said the good news is that it appears that MB3 will work on an extender, so that's promising.

Most likely the onboard battery died - at least that would be my guess. MB3 working on it is VERY nice. Once they work out the other issues, that will be a huge bonus!
post #7683 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajhieb View Post

Do you even have and Echo? What is your purpose in being here other than to argue with people?

Welcome to my ignore list.

When proven wrong, you put your hands over your ears and cry "la la la, I am not listening to you". Pity, you could have learned much.

But to answer your question, which I already did and you already responded to, I am exposing and correcting a lie. I find it sad you want lies to remain as if they are truth...are you a politician?
post #7684 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haba View Post

You added the new Infinitv 6 as an early adopter to your setup of HTPC with unreliable Echos and now you are having even more problems along with even worse WAF. I am sorry you are having issues, but are you surprised at the results?

Thank you for the insightful feedback. Lol

What I expected was a reliable second generation CableCARD tuner from Ceton. Apparently, Ceton thinks BETA is suitable for general release.
post #7685 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by shortcut3d View Post

Thank you for the insightful feedback. Lol

What I expected was a reliable second generation CableCARD tuner from Ceton. Apparently, Ceton thinks BETA is suitable for general release.

I also want to note that Ceton should see that you have gone out on a limb early adopting Ceton's newest products. You have invested time, money and labor trying to get this working. IMHO Ceton really should personally contact you and get you up and running.
post #7686 of 7721
There is all kinds of craziness going on in here. Microsoft, by no longer developing a forward path for WMC, is therefore trying to kill it? What an interesting conclusion.
post #7687 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by dabretty View Post

There is all kinds of craziness going on in here. Microsoft, by no longer developing a forward path for WMC, is therefore trying to kill it? What an interesting conclusion.

I don't recall anyone on this thread speculating Microsoft's intent. (emphasis added)

They have simply stated what Microsoft has in fact done to date (as well as what they have not in fact done) and discussed the inevitable results of those actions.

Did you not understand what was actually being discussed, or were you willfully misstating the arguments of others?
post #7688 of 7721
I agree with cybrsage that the version in win 8 is "newer" as it has a CC button on the main UI screen unlike my win 7 machines where it is buried in the menus. In addition to the version numbers pointed out by cybrsage, It is also copyright in 2012 rather than 2009. Abandoned (or similar words in the past tense) is not the right word to use as it is still for sale and is promoted as being for sale for windows 8, whether the propack to update non-pro or an "app" for pro. Phrases like killing, and one foot in the grave (and other verb forms stating in the process of) are somewhat correct as everything has one foot in the grave as soon as its released, though both are phrases of opinion not fact since it is still supported and sold . Just 12 days ago, IBM announced it was abandoning 123 from sales in June and support at the end of September 2014 with no replacement producs. So in October 2014 if one wanted to say IBM killed 123, I would accept that (but it may not be dead). Until we know for a fact that WMC (full or extender) will not be an available add-on for xbone (even if paid and not necessarily at launch), I wouldn't put the final nail in the coffin just yet as it will work for many years to come so it isn't dead... My old Apple ][+, C64 and amiga are still not dead as well as many old gaming systems. I do not feel they are abandoned as there are great communities out there supporting them.

To try and get back on topic for an echo thread, How many people out there would recommend the echo for just live and recorded TV. I am not looking for those who would just prefer it to be cheaper and/or compared to an xbox as I would prefer it to be about $50 less for what it does and for most I would still recommend an xbox over it. I haven't really had any complaints on the few I have installed but these are casual users and not installed in primary locations.
post #7689 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by signcarver View Post

I agree with cybrsage that the version in win 8 is "newer" as it has a CC button on the main UI screen unlike my win 7 machines where it is buried in the menus. In addition to the version numbers pointed out by cybrsage, It is also copyright in 2012 rather than 2009. Abandoned (or similar words in the past tense) is not the right word to use as it is still for sale and is promoted as being for sale for windows 8, whether the propack to update non-pro or an "app" for pro. Phrases like killing, and one foot in the grave (and other verb forms stating in the process of) are somewhat correct as everything has one foot in the grave as soon as its released, though both are phrases of opinion not fact since it is still supported and sold . Just 12 days ago, IBM announced it was abandoning 123 from sales in June and support at the end of September 2014 with no replacement producs. So in October 2014 if one wanted to say IBM killed 123, I would accept that (but it may not be dead). Until we know for a fact that WMC (full or extender) will not be an available add-on for xbone (even if paid and not necessarily at launch), I wouldn't put the final nail in the coffin just yet as it will work for many years to come so it isn't dead... My old Apple ][+, C64 and amiga are still not dead as well as many old gaming systems. I do not feel they are abandoned as there are great communities out there supporting them.

The only thing that seems clear at this point is that pretty much everyone here is using different definitions for terms like "dead" "killing" "abandoned" et al, and that a subset of those people are utterly unaware of things like exaggeration and hyperbole. It appears that they were personally offended by comments they deemed to be derogatory to Microsoft, and are unwilling to budge from that stance.

You can't reason with people like that, which is why I stopped. The only question that remains is how long will it take everyone else to just let it go? The only arguments remaining on this point are over the definitions of some words and phrases. Is that really constructive?
Quote:
To try and get back on topic for an echo thread, How many people out there would recommend the echo for just live and recorded TV. I am not looking for those who would just prefer it to be cheaper and/or compared to an xbox as I would prefer it to be about $50 less for what it does and for most I would still recommend an xbox over it. I haven't really had any complaints on the few I have installed but these are casual users and not installed in primary locations.

No, I would not recommend the Echo for anything right now. Mine were rebooting on a pretty regular basis (multiple times per day) running on the latest "stable" firmware. The reboots were random and unpredictable. They would occur during live TV viewing, while navigating within menus, watching media from my library, or sometimes just sitting idle at the menu screen. When I last had it connected it still had bad combing on 1080i channels (specifically CBS/TNT/TBS/TruTV during March Madness) and the UI/guide weren't as responsive as the X-Box, nor did it look as good (animations were still choppy and color looked washed out compared to the XBox)

Others have reported much better success with LiveTV, but for me it is still very much a beta product.
post #7690 of 7721
Tha
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haba View Post

I also want to note that Ceton should see that you have gone out on a limb early adopting Ceton's newest products. You have invested time, money and labor trying to get this working. IMHO Ceton really should personally contact you and get you up and running.

Thank you for pointing that out. Hopefully, Ceton will contact me on the InfiniTV6 since my ticket was escalated on that device. My Echo ticket was closed because it reached a point where it was "acceptable". Hopefully, support is passing the these issues to engineer and not marking work arounds as fixes. Removing all plugins is not a fix, nor is setting the Echo to 1080p only. These just made the Echo usable, but far from an Xbox360.

Unfortunately, I put all my eggs in one basket and quickly flipped my AppleTVs and Xbox360s on eBay once Android was announced in State of the Echo #2. Worse I doubled down and swapped out a great SiliconDust HDHomeRun Prime 6CC for another buggy Ceton InfiniTV6 ETH.
post #7691 of 7721
I just got an email from Ceton......

Big Memorial Day Savings!‏
post #7692 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by signcarver View Post

To try and get back on topic for an echo thread, How many people out there would recommend the echo for just live and recorded TV. I am not looking for those who would just prefer it to be cheaper and/or compared to an xbox as I would prefer it to be about $50 less for what it does and for most I would still recommend an xbox over it. I haven't really had any complaints on the few I have installed but these are casual users and not installed in primary locations.
I've had mine since the second wave of betas and I'm very happy with it. I have a very simple network with hardwired connections and a dedicated HTPC. LiveTV and RecordedTV work great. I haven't seen a random reboot for several months. It won't play my ripped movies well, but that was a bonus for me. I'm very happy with mine.
post #7693 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajhieb View Post

The only question that remains is how long will it take everyone else to just let it go?

Don't know, how long until you actually let it go or admit you are wrong?
post #7694 of 7721
Now that we have it settled that Microsoft has neither killed nor abandoned WMC, can we get a recap of what the Echo does well?
post #7695 of 7721
I have four Echos. I use one hard wired router. I have one Echo linked to a Win 7 pc with an infaniTV 4 card in it. This is my main DVR. I have the other three linked to another PC with an infiniTV 4 card in it which are mainly used for live TV. This set up runs well and the Echos require no more attention than either PC. So it is not as stable as a limited function cable company supplied DVR, but it has strong WAF as it has given her all of the channels we pay for on a TV that previously was limited to the few remaining analog channels and HD in the clear channels offered by Charter. The small form factor allows the Echo to fit neatly into places that an Xbox360 just would not work. I run the latest official release firmware, not the beta. I did have one Echo die within a week of receipt but Newegg replaced it very quickly.

I am pretty happy with this setup. And what little trouble it gives me is worth it in my opinion as it lets me edit the guide and have access to all of my photos and family videos. So there are likely many of us who are using the infaniTV/Echo products as intended across hard wired networks without too many plug ins that are satisfied with the results.
post #7696 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by lfox View Post

I have four Echos. I use one hard wired router. I have one Echo linked to a Win 7 pc with an infaniTV 4 card in it. This is my main DVR. I have the other three linked to another PC with an infiniTV 4 card in it which are mainly used for live TV. This set up runs well and the Echos require no more attention than either PC. So it is not as stable as a limited function cable company supplied DVR, but it has strong WAF as it has given her all of the channels we pay for on a TV that previously was limited to the few remaining analog channels and HD in the clear channels offered by Charter. The small form factor allows the Echo to fit neatly into places that an Xbox360 just would not work. I run the latest official release firmware, not the beta. I did have one Echo die within a week of receipt but Newegg replaced it very quickly.

I am pretty happy with this setup. And what little trouble it gives me is worth it in my opinion as it lets me edit the guide and have access to all of my photos and family videos. So there are likely many of us who are using the infaniTV/Echo products as intended across hard wired networks without too many plug ins that are satisfied with the results.

What plugins have been identified as problematic? If its as simple as this, I would gladly standup a plain vanilla box (Ceton + WMC) and echo your exact sentiments. However, this is nowhere near the situation, I have tried.

Most of my random reboots of the echo are off of menu transitions, res changes, being left on or format(handshake) issuses. My network is 100% to recommended extender specs and none of my other extenders (Xbox, dma2100) have ever crashed in the same manner as the echo.

I honestly had high hopes for the echo, but the fact that almost 6 months after release we still don't have promised features (DTS, HDMI-CEC) doesn't bode well for the echo. Can they ever right the ship, sure! The question is will there be enough passengers to allow the journey to continue.
post #7697 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by lfox View Post

I am pretty happy with this setup. And what little trouble it gives me is worth it in my opinion as it lets me edit the guide and have access to all of my photos and family videos. So there are likely many of us who are using the infaniTV/Echo products as intended across hard wired networks without too many plug ins that are satisfied with the results.

Are you trying to suggest that the people who are dissatisfied with the Echo are using it for purposes outside of being a WMC Extender?
post #7698 of 7721
I also think some aren't as sensitive to dropped frames, stuttering, judder, artifacts, deinterlacing, etc. I notice this with the latest beta firmware and therefore do not think the Echo even fulfills basic extender functionality. I'm hesitant to restore to the earlier stable release for fear of bricking and losing my entire ripped library.
post #7699 of 7721
or there are people who's Echo actually works... Please don't assume that just because you are having problems that everyone else must be also having problems or simply can't see them. I don't know what is causing your problems but mine does not reboot, stutter, drop frames, etc.
post #7700 of 7721
Wasn't being able to play "ripped movies well" a part of the expectation? If your Echo can't do this then it doesn't actually work, and you're having problems like everyone else.

As an outsider in sore need of extenders I really want the Echo to work, as advertised. As a consumer I would expect it. However, staying abreast of this conversation reveals the Ceton Echo to be a colossal failure.

This is my own assumption, and you're one of many who has proven it. Thanks.
post #7701 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by P Seastrand View Post

or there are people who's Echo actually works... Please don't assume that just because you are having problems that everyone else must be also having problems or simply can't see them. I don't know what is causing your problems but mine does not reboot, stutter, drop frames, etc.

No doubt, some people are quite satisfied with their Echo's.

There is also a significant number of people that are experience multiple problems with their Echos.

The difference in reporting can be attributed to any combination of:

Differences in the Echo (different production runs)
Difference in firmware versions (some running stable, some running beta)
Differences in environment (WMC configuration, network topology, Cable provider, etc)
Differences in demand (tasks being performed with the Echo... LiveTV, Library playback, etc)
Differences in expectations (previous experience with other extenders)
Differences in perception (are you looking at a 19" screen from across the room through your bifocals, examining your 85" plasma from 6" away? do you even know what combing is?)

(The above examples are just that, and not directed at anyone poster. I have no idea if you wear bifocals or not)

That being said, just because the Echo is working in one situation, doesn't mean it works everywhere, and given the differences listed above it isn't unreasonable to account for the possibility that people who report there Echo as working, either aren't using it to it's fullest capacity, or aren't able to perceive the problem. There is also a good possibility that some other difference in their scenario allows for them to use the Echo with no trouble at all (perceived or otherwise)

Truth be told, we have no idea how widespread the problems are with the Echo. Only Ceton knows for sure, and I doubt they'll be sharing that with us. But I think it is safe to say that given the number of problems that have been reported since the product's release that it isn't a properly working unit yet, and unless you completely dismiss the experience of others on this board and elsewhere, it would be folly to recommend the Echo to someone right now without at least adding the caveat "it works well for me, but other's have had difficulty" To blindly state that it works or that someone should get it, is pretty much a slap in the face to all of the people that have been working to troubleshoot the problems with the Echo.
post #7702 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by shortcut3d View Post

I also think some aren't as sensitive to dropped frames, stuttering, judder, artifacts, deinterlacing, etc. I notice this with the latest beta firmware and therefore do not think the Echo even fulfills basic extender functionality. I'm hesitant to restore to the earlier stable release for fear of bricking and losing my entire ripped library.

How is this going to effect your ripped library at all?
post #7703 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shark007 View Post

could you provide even 1 single link to an official Microsoft statement to substantiate any your claims here?
Not a link to some blogger having the same opinion as you.

If there still is a real eHome team, I'm not aware of it. AFAIK, the eHome stragglers were absorbed by Zune a long time ago, then that team was disbanded. Both "teams" probably exist on paper as part of a PM portfolio, but not in any real sense. There maybe occasional critical bug-fix type development, but not at the scale required to advance the product.

Is there any official documentation of this? Of course not. It's silly to even ask for such a thing.

That said, believe what you want to believe. Faith, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary, is a powerful thing. I wish I had more of it.
post #7704 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajhieb View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by P Seastrand View Post

or there are people who's Echo actually works... Please don't assume that just because you are having problems that everyone else must be also having problems or simply can't see them. I don't know what is causing your problems but mine does not reboot, stutter, drop frames, etc.

No doubt, some people are quite satisfied with their Echo's.

There is also a significant number of people that are experience multiple problems with their Echos.

The difference in reporting can be attributed to any combination of:

Differences in the Echo (different production runs)
Difference in firmware versions (some running stable, some running beta)
Differences in environment (WMC configuration, network topology, Cable provider, etc)
Differences in demand (tasks being performed with the Echo... LiveTV, Library playback, etc)
Differences in expectations (previous experience with other extenders)
Differences in perception (are you looking at a 19" screen from across the room through your bifocals, examining your 85" plasma from 6" away? do you even know what combing is?)

(The above examples are just that, and not directed at anyone poster. I have no idea if you wear bifocals or not)

That being said, just because the Echo is working in one situation, doesn't mean it works everywhere, and given the differences listed above it isn't unreasonable to account for the possibility that people who report there Echo as working, either aren't using it to it's fullest capacity, or aren't able to perceive the problem. There is also a good possibility that some other difference in their scenario allows for them to use the Echo with no trouble at all (perceived or otherwise)

Truth be told, we have no idea how widespread the problems are with the Echo. Only Ceton knows for sure, and I doubt they'll be sharing that with us. But I think it is safe to say that given the number of problems that have been reported since the product's release that it isn't a properly working unit yet, and unless you completely dismiss the experience of others on this board and elsewhere, it would be folly to recommend the Echo to someone right now without at least adding the caveat "it works well for me, but other's have had difficulty" To blindly state that it works or that someone should get it, is pretty much a slap in the face to all of the people that have been working to troubleshoot the problems with the Echo.

Well said.

As far as network topology goes, everything else on my network works fine, including my HDHR Prime tuner which plays LiveTV just fine on the HTPC routed through the same Realtek NIC and Trendnet 8 port switches. The echo extender cannot seem to stay connected to my network even via Cat6 plugged into the back of my router but somehow this is an issue with my topology? I've seen issues reported with the ETH not staying connected to the network too. Could it possibly be the NIC and drivers in ceton's devices are the real culprit here?

EDIT: Let me add that mine is connected and working well right now and it was on Saturday and Sunday. Yesterday I could not get it to connect at all and I don't know when the next remote button push issues the following:
Code:
Do until unplugged
Reboot
Connect
Disconnect
End do

Edited by Sammy2 - 5/28/13 at 7:19am
post #7705 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

EDIT: Let me add that mine is connected and working well right now and it was on Saturday and Sunday. Yesterday I could not get it to connect at all and I don't know when the next remote button push issues the following:
Code:
Do until unplugged
Reboot
Connect
Disconnect
End do

Sammy2: I think a lot of computer products I've had over the years have included that little snippet of code. Nice touch.
post #7706 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

Now that we have it settled that Microsoft has neither killed nor abandoned WMC...

As far as I can tell you are the only person that believes that they are still working on WMC. Stopping development for enhancements etc. means abandonment to me, but apparently not to you. Supporting or selling it is a totally different matter, but you don't see it that way.

They no longer actively develop WMC, therefore it is to most folks here an abandoned feature of Windows. Releasing the same feature with no improvements from 7 to 8 while disbanding the dev team essentially means that they've given up on it. Your opinion differs, but you are in a small minority here.
post #7707 of 7721
You are confusing "still working on" with "abandoned"; stop doing that and you will stop being wrong. Since MS is both selling WMC and supporting WMC they have not abandoned it. Anyone who says "abandoned a product" means "still selling and supporting a product" is simply wrong. I noticed a lot of people in this thread change words and then argue that these newly changed words are correct (acting like they were the original words used) or that I used them myself. The lie being crushed is that Microsoft has abandoned WMC. They obviously have not. They may or may not have done other things, but that is a completely different conversation. I proved they created a new version of WMC for Windows 8 and are both currently selling and supporting this new product. That proves they did not abandon WMC.

EDIT: It might be correct to say "Microsoft is no longer spending resources to develop new versions of WMC", but that is a far cry from saying "Microsoft has abandoned WMC". To give a little example to help understand better:

EDIT EDIT: A better example is Saturn. GM is no longer making new Saturns, but they did not abandon the Saturn line (even though you cannot buy new ones, unlike with WMC), they still support it until the end of life of the warranties. http://www.saturn.com/owners/owner_resources/warranty.html
Edited by cybrsage - 5/28/13 at 9:36am
post #7708 of 7721
The WMC is dead talk needs it's own thread!
post #7709 of 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

The WMC is dead talk needs it's own thread!

I agree, but we must nip the lies in the bud when and where they surface...too many people believe the lies since they are told so often. It is relevant here since the Echo requires WMC.
post #7710 of 7721
Well both sides have continued their arguments for pages now. WMC is not dead but is not really in development either.
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