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Ceton Q DVR-HTPC Info Thread - Page 9

post #241 of 324
Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteboy714 View Post

I understand your point. And you hardware is priced pretty good. But man $800-1000 seems like a huge investment for something like this for most folks. I know this isn't geared towards the average Joe but that just seems like a big chunk. Plus your going to need extenders to go with it unless all that is for one tv.
Although on the hardware of the Q I assume besides the BD player it will be similar to the echo.These media player type devices have much simpler hardware compared to a pc. And it is usually much cheaper. If a WDTV live can be sold at $100 then the media playback part is pretty cheap. Throw in six tuners at $50 each, a blu ray player ?$100. We're at $500. And those are already all retail numbers. So it seems like an extra 300-500 on top of that in my mind is kind of crazy. I'm sure it won't be cheap though.
And just like the ceton quad tuner did it will probably drop a good deal in price after the initial rush dies down.

Unless something has changed, it's not just an ARM processor - it's an x86 system. You're also forgetting the 2TB hard drive and the licensing costs for Windows 7 here. Even using your estimate, that puts us at around $650, without profit or software customization costs.
post #242 of 324
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakes View Post

If you believe that you could not make more than 0% on your money over the next 40 months then it is time for you to find a new investment advisor. wink.gif Better yet, PM me and I will provide you with my contact information.

No that wasn't my point. My point is that the inflation rate is higher than the near zero we're being told and I'm talking about liquid "cash" in a normal passbook account not that which is being invested at a higher rate of return which may not be as liquid.
post #243 of 324
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcturkey View Post

Unless something has changed, it's not just an ARM processor - it's an x86 system. You're also forgetting the 2TB hard drive and the licensing costs for Windows 7 here. Even using your estimate, that puts us at around $650, without profit or software customization costs.
Yah I didn't realize it was X86.Interesting to see where its priced.
post #244 of 324
Anybody got any new news on this unit? WHat is the official release status?mad.gif
Edited by AMMO - 9/23/12 at 3:49pm
post #245 of 324
pardon my ignorance but will the Q have live buffers on each tuner of at least 20 minutes?
post #246 of 324
IDK what the LiveTV buffer length will be but the Q is based on WMC in which you can change the buffer lengt. Having a LiveTV buffer for each tuner simultaneously is a different story altogether. If you SDV from your CableCO then it wouldn't be posible unless there was a separate TA and CableCARD for each tuner which I don't think the Q will have. It will have one multisteam CableCARD tuner.
post #247 of 324
Thread Starter 
I think I read somewhere that having multiple live buffers is patented by Tivo.
post #248 of 324
It may be patented by TiVo but that won't stop some hacker from adding it into WMC.
post #249 of 324
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

If you SDV from your CableCO then it wouldn't be posible unless there was a separate TA and CableCARD for each tuner which I don't think the Q will have. It will have one multisteam CableCARD tuner.
That's not true. Only 1 CableCard is needed to watch/record multiple channels and in most cases, a single TA is now adequate as most have received firmware updates to handle 4 or 6 streams. The only issue with multiple live buffers is that it isn't currently supported within the WMC software, but any issues related to the CableCard and/or TA are no different than recording 4 shows at the same time which people are obviously doing.
post #250 of 324
Quote:
Originally Posted by vurbano View Post

pardon my ignorance but will the Q have live buffers on each tuner of at least 20 minutes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

IDK what the LiveTV buffer length will be but the Q is based on WMC in which you can change the buffer lengt. Having a LiveTV buffer for each tuner simultaneously is a different story altogether. If you SDV from your CableCO then it wouldn't be posible unless there was a separate TA and CableCARD for each tuner which I don't think the Q will have. It will have one multisteam CableCARD tuner.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

That's not true. Only 1 CableCard is needed to watch/record multiple channels and in most cases, a single TA is now adequate as most have received firmware updates to handle 4 or 6 streams. The only issue with multiple live buffers is that it isn't currently supported within the WMC software, but any issues related to the CableCard and/or TA are no different than recording 4 shows at the same time which people are obviously doing.

What I mean is that with only one TA and SDV, you can't buffer multiple channels at once so you can record an entire show if you come in the middle of it and say, "hey, I ought to record this"... Or is there something I'm not aware of that permits this? Learn something new every day.
post #251 of 324
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

What I mean is that with only one TA and SDV, you can't buffer multiple channels at once so you can record an entire show if you come in the middle of it and say, "hey, I ought to record this"... Or is there something I'm not aware of that permits this? Learn something new every day.
Like I said, in most cases a single TA is now all you need to make use of all 4 tuners at the same time. But the limitation remains that WMC doesn't currently keep multiple live buffers - you need to explicitly setup recordings to accomplish this.
post #252 of 324
But with SDV you only get one stream from the provider at a time. I thought it was only sending one stream through the TA to conserve bandwidth. Or am I wrong?

You can't buffer all streams of SDV as that would defeat the purpose of having it, wouldn't it?
post #253 of 324
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

But with SDV you only get one stream from the provider at a time. I thought it was only sending one stream through the TA to conserve bandwidth. Or am I wrong?
You can't buffer all streams of SDV as that would defeat the purpose of having it, wouldn't it?

Streams are never sent through the TA - the TA does not processing (or receiving) of the actual video. The TA simply requests that a channel be switched on, and returns the location to the InfiniTV. On both Cisco and Motorola TAs running modern firmware, up to 6 simultaneous channels are supported.
post #254 of 324
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

Like I said, in most cases a single TA is now all you need to make use of all 4 tuners at the same time. But the limitation remains that WMC doesn't currently keep multiple live buffers - you need to explicitly setup recordings to accomplish this.

(OT) Wait, are you saying two extenders (or an HTPC and an extender) can't watch TV live at the same time with WMC?
post #255 of 324
No SDV or tuning adapters here on FIOS FWIW. I just want all the functionality of my 3 Tivo premiere units before I would switch over. i have an HTPC with 12 Tb in it i use for ripping BD's, stoing them or burning them and etc but never pursued the infinity card because well.. i didnt want bill gates rebooting my PC in the middle of watching the superbowl. But with a product like the Q and the echo, the experience should be much more "refined" and controlled, more foolproof.
Edited by vurbano - 9/17/12 at 11:57am
post #256 of 324
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

(OT) Wait, are you saying two extenders (or an HTPC and an extender) can't watch TV live at the same time with WMC?

You can not have more than one Live TV buffer on one device. Since WMC supports up to 6 devices (HTPC + 5 extenders), 6 Live TV buffers can be going at the same time. And Live TV buffers can be shared. If I switch to a channel that another device is watching I can use its Live TV buffer (in fact a little icon in the info screen shows that you are doing this).

What's even more screwy is that WMC keeps 2 large pre-allocated buffers for each tuner you have, even if it is not being used. I have 13 tuners, so there are 26 512MB files sitting on my computer. The Live TV buffers are described in more detail in the following link:

http://experts.windows.com/w/experts_wiki/using-a-ram-drive-for-the-live-tv-buffer.aspx
post #257 of 324
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

(OT) Wait, are you saying two extenders (or an HTPC and an extender) can't watch TV live at the same time with WMC?
No, he's not saying that. Many satellite DVRs (and perhaps others) have the kind of live buffers he's talking about. The way those work is from one client (extender) you can swap among the live tuners and all are buffered. So you can watch tuner 1, pause, swap to tuner 2, rewind and see the buffer on 2, swap back to 1, rewind and see its buffer, for example. When you swap tuners on WMC, your buffer on the previous tuner is lost. While I miss that functionality, a little planning can accomplish the same thing by simply recording everything you want to watch. But you can't quickly swap between several recordings or have any kind of PIP without sourcing it from a second extender.

vurbano,

True that WMC is not a good solution if you must have ALL the functionality of a Tivo, and that the Q is perfect for that. But many of us are willing to give up a little functionality to save huge sums of money over Tivo or renting cable DVRs. And there's no problem at all turning off automatic updates so Bill doesn't reboot in the middle of a program. I imagine most of us have our HTPC's set up that way. That said, the Q will be a much simpler solution than an HTPC/Extender solution that I'm really looking forward to.
post #258 of 324
You know a Q and 2 echo units on a 30 days free return period would be awesome.
post #259 of 324
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdavej View Post

No, he's not saying that. Many satellite DVRs (and perhaps others) have the kind of live buffers he's talking about. The way those work is from one client (extender) you can swap among the live tuners and all are buffered. So you can watch tuner 1, pause, swap to tuner 2, rewind and see the buffer on 2, swap back to 1, rewind and see its buffer, for example. When you swap tuners on WMC, your buffer on the previous tuner is lost. While I miss that functionality, a little planning can accomplish the same thing by simply recording everything you want to watch. But you can't quickly swap between several recordings or have any kind of PIP without sourcing it from a second extender.
vurbano,
True that WMC is not a good solution if you must have ALL the functionality of a Tivo, and that the Q is perfect for that. But many of us are willing to give up a little functionality to save huge sums of money over Tivo or renting cable DVRs. And there's no problem at all turning off automatic updates so Bill doesn't reboot in the middle of a program. I imagine most of us have our HTPC's set up that way. That said, the Q will be a much simpler solution than an HTPC/Extender solution that I'm really looking forward to.

My parents have Direct, and they can only buffer one channel at a time
I have Comcast and have used their dvr and HD dvr, and neither could buffer more than one channel at a time
My in-laws have U-verse, and it can only buffer one channel at a time (and they frequently curse about changing the channel when they only wanted to turn up the volume and lose their buffer)

Is this a Dish Network feature?
post #260 of 324
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

(OT) Wait, are you saying two extenders (or an HTPC and an extender) can't watch TV live at the same time with WMC?
I see that mdavej already answered this, but I thought the context was multiple live TV buffers on 1 client. Obviously, there can be multiple live buffers going if there is more than 1 client active, but they can't be used on the same client all at the same time.
post #261 of 324
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

But with SDV you only get one stream from the provider at a time. I thought it was only sending one stream through the TA to conserve bandwidth. Or am I wrong?
You can't buffer all streams of SDV as that would defeat the purpose of having it, wouldn't it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by erickotz View Post

Streams are never sent through the TA - the TA does not processing (or receiving) of the actual video. The TA simply requests that a channel be switched on, and returns the location to the InfiniTV. On both Cisco and Motorola TAs running modern firmware, up to 6 simultaneous channels are supported.

Okay. I understand that correctly. The TA requests the channel and the head end sends the signal. The TA can either have the stream pass through it un-touched or an external splitter can be used before the TA to get the signal to the CableCARD tuner.
post #262 of 324
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_Slayer View Post

My parents have Direct, and they can only buffer one channel at a time
I have Comcast and have used their dvr and HD dvr, and neither could buffer more than one channel at a time
My in-laws have U-verse, and it can only buffer one channel at a time (and they frequently curse about changing the channel when they only wanted to turn up the volume and lose their buffer)
Is this a Dish Network feature?
I guess it depends on the equipment. I had dual live buffers on both Dish and DirecTV for years. Dish was a bit better because it also had PIP, so you could see both at the same time. On my DirecTV HR2x's, you just press down arrow to toggle between the two, and pause/rewind to your heart's content, keeping the buffer in both. Great for sports. Not sure if the new HR34 has more than 2 buffers or not. I know it has 5 tuners though. If your parents have one of those models, they have the feature but don't know it. I've never had a cable DVR with multiple live buffers. Maybe Tivo has that feature.

In any case it's a really nice feature that I do miss. But I can live without it given the money I'm saving. While I'm at it, here's my short list of satellite DVR features I wish WMC had. Hopefully the Q will be able to add some of these features.

- Dual live buffers (of course)
- Bookmarks, skip to tick (nearest 15 min mark), skip to end
- Recording current live buffer from the beginning (is there an add-on or hack for this?)
- PIP
- Delete entire group of recordings at once
- Custom folders (maybe there's already an add-on for this too)
- Auto search for actor, director, etc. by just clicking hyperlink in program info (saves typing)
- Boolean searches (uses AND, OR, NOT, etc.)
- Quicktune (small popup list of a few favorite channels)

EDIT: I forgot we already sort of have "skip to tick" since you can type the minute mark you want to jump to. Some of the above features are probably available with add-ons. I'm just not aware of them. I think I tried the one that gives you folder management once, but it slowed my system to a crawl since I have a pretty marginal HTPC.
Edited by mdavej - 9/18/12 at 6:25am
post #263 of 324
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

What I mean is that with only one TA and SDV, you can't buffer multiple channels at once so you can record an entire show if you come in the middle of it and say, "hey, I ought to record this"... Or is there something I'm not aware of that permits this? Learn something new every day.

Setting aside the issue of TA's and SDV, I thought that in WMC it was not possible under any circumstances to 1) tune in to a show at the start; then 2) decide, in the middle of the show, to record it; so that 3) you end up with a recording of the entire show. In our experience, if you're watching a show and hit the "Record" button, WMC will give you a recording only from that point onward, that is not including the part of the show that came before you hit "Record."

As written, the sentence sounds like you CAN do this somehow (unless you're hobbled by TA's and SDV)? How?

This is the one important feature we do miss from the cableco DVR.
post #264 of 324
For the $23/month = $276/year I save over the CableCo DVR, I'm over it.
post #265 of 324
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

For the $23/month = $276/year I save over the CableCo DVR, I'm over it.

Yeah, we're saving $15/month = $180/year on the DVR, so I sure don't have any complaint there. But what you wrote above gave me hope that maybe we didn't have to give up even that feature (recording the live TV buffer).
post #266 of 324
I actually haven't tried it but I do have a 120 minute buffer so theoretically it should work. Could be that it neds to be re-wound first?
post #267 of 324
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

I actually haven't tried it but I do have a 120 minute buffer so theoretically it should work. Could be that it neds to be re-wound first?
I've tried rewinding but it won't save it. That trick works on Dish but not WMC.
post #268 of 324
No one has the answer the release date?
post #269 of 324
Their latest newsletter said there would be more info at the end of the month.

http://us2.campaign-archive1.com/?u=d8df9c2734d4388754bd41fd3&id=f9d86f94f7&e=4722b36f09
post #270 of 324
That's for the Echo, not the Q.
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