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Panasonic DMP BDT500 - Page 14

post #391 of 1791
Got it, thanks. But that makes me wonder about the the purpose of the analog outs. The Panasonic is not a receiver and doesn't have stuff like room correction or THX, so even though it can capture great analog sound, what is the point exactly? I feel like I'm missing something.
post #392 of 1791
Quote:
Originally Posted by billbayarea View Post

Thanks for the replies.

I think the analog outs bypass the Audyssey sound equalization in my Onkyo, and also the THX effects. (Actually I could use some help understanding what is and is not bypassed, I asked that question on the Onkyo thread.)

I definitely want to use the better DACS in the Panasonic... Can it supply an HDMI signal with bitsreamed audio? Would that be the best of both worlds? Sorry if that is a stupid question, that's why I'm asking.

Also I dont have any interest in 3D, thanks for asking however.

Best bet to know whether or not Onkyo bypasses THX, Audyysey, etc. when using analogs is to look or ask in the Onkyo 1007 thread. I know earlier models did, but I can't speak for the 1007.

S~
post #393 of 1791
Quote:
Originally Posted by billbayarea View Post

Got it, thanks. But that makes me wonder about the the purpose of the analog outs. The Panasonic is not a receiver and doesn't have stuff like room correction or THX, so even though it can capture great analog sound, what is the point exactly? I feel like I'm missing something.

I like analog for music>> DAC and HDMI movies/TV
post #394 of 1791
Quote:
Originally Posted by billbayarea View Post

Got it, thanks. But that makes me wonder about the the purpose of the analog outs. The Panasonic is not a receiver and doesn't have stuff like room correction or THX, so even though it can capture great analog sound, what is the point exactly? I feel like I'm missing something.

There are only 4 ways to get sound out of the DMP-BDT500: 7.1 analog, digital Coax, Toslink (digital optical), or HDMI (pages 11 and 12 from the manual; then pages 29 and 30 for details).

Of these 4, only the analog are analog , the other three are digital. So anyone who needs an analog output, would use those 7.1 outputs. I bought this player specifically for the analog outputs and am quite pleased with the sound. Had it not had analog outputs, I would have purchased a different player.

Hope this helps...

Scott

PS now, you may ask, why do I need analog outputs? Because I don't have a receiver. I have digital powered speakers (JBL LSR4328 monitors) which need to be fed a digital signal (PCM). But attempting to get an in-the-clear 7.1 PCM digital stream is just about impossible (I've tried over the past many years with klunky solutions). But a handful of A/D converters does the job very nicely. Dito for mixing analog signals together (my HDTV tuner and DMP-BDT500 are mixed together this way in analog; then converted to digital via A/D). Since my resulting signal is digital, my speaker cable is Cat6 ethernet. The speakers do the heavy lifting, hum is non-existent , and long cable runs aren't a problem.
post #395 of 1791
Quote:
Originally Posted by bakerwi View Post

I am enjoying the Panasonic, but it is not the answer to the Oppo 95 and a couple of other units. It is currently the least expensive transport that supports 7.1 analog. So I would consider it more of an alternative and a good one if you have budget considerations.



I just ordered a 500 that's going to replace a 210 I have in my home office. There's a Oppo 95 in my main system so the Panny will spend a few days on top of the Oppo. I'm interested to see how they compare with each other. Sometimes this hobby can be a whole lot of fun!
post #396 of 1791
Quote:
Originally Posted by billbayarea View Post

I have an Onkyo TX-NR1007 and I am trying to hook this up to my panasonic dmp bdt500 in the best way.

just hooking up with hdmi cable was a huge improvement in dvd and cd sound quality. really noticeable, much silkier dvd performance, and the cd sound was really improved.

then i tried the 6 RCA cable trick for analog sound hookup. this was yet another big improvement, but i have some questions.

first, to use this the onkyo must be in "multichannel audio" mode. that means that cd playback is just the front 2 speakers, and the dvd playback is a mixdown from 6 or 7.1 to 5.1 but what i dont understand:

is (1) in cd mode can i play the subwoofer? or is that always just the fronts? (the panasonic has speaker equalization and level capabilities)

and (2) in dvd mode do i still get my audessey equalization from the onkyo? what about all the thx sound processing? (i guess i'm wondering what the signal path is)

also (3) is there a way to turn off all the video signal processing in the onkyo, or do i need a direct video hdmi to the tv, is that the best idea?

so i guess i'm trying to understand what i'm supposed to do in these cases, or what are the best practices...

Thanks in advance, Bill

I think the first thing you need to do is refer to the manual to get a better understanding of what the avr can and can't do and then work around them. Granted it might not explain everything e.g are the analogue inputs true bypass or are do they go through analogue to digital conversion (ADC) , if its the latter then you might as well use HDMI. One way of ascertaining this is to see if EQ can be applied to the analogue inputs, if it can then chances are the signals being re-digitised.

With reference to your specific questions:

1) if you are using the stereo analogue inputs labelled CD then broadly speaking most AVRs perform ADC to the input whereby the sub is engaged as in a 2.1 setup unless you engage the 'pure direct' mode (could be called something else) where its straight analogue pass through i.e. 2.0. In this scenario if you want benefit of the sub and Audyssey just use HDMI. Otherwise use the analogue stereo outs from the player for 2.0. Depends which sound you prefer.*

* there's a way to use the players DACs and have the sub engaged, just use the player's multi channel outputs.

2) if your connecting to the HDMI input named DVD then its simple, set player to bitstream and the AVR takes care of all processing, eq, etc. If you're connecting to the multi channel inputs then as above with CD, find out if there's any ADC going on.

3) some AVRs do have the option like CD whereby you can engage a 'pure direct' mode for multi channel analogue inputs. Can't say if this will switch off straight pass through of the video as that is AVR dependent. Refer to manual.

What you need to decide on is whether the quality(?) of the player's analogue outputs are worth losing the benefits of the AVR's sound processing and EQ.

Good luck my friend.
post #397 of 1791
Quote:
Originally Posted by bakerwi View Post

Mission,

This is kind of my early assessment of the Panasonic. I think it is great choice if require 7.1 analog, but don't need all the extra media support offered by the Oppo BDP-93. The biggest of this transport for me is having an additional transport that supports 7.1 and FLAC (if I can get it to play a single file).

Hopefully, I will have an opportunity to provide my subjective opinion on its analog vs the BDP-93.

Looking forward to your (and others) assessments bakerwi. That will be a nice comparision.

Based on my own opinion between it and my AVP I do fear in pursuit of a more musical and warmer tone they have sacrificed on detail and resolution just a touch. But it's still very impressive for such a decent priced player. Two things i like about the analogues from this player is it does away with the harsh digital sound as characterised by so many players/AVRs at this to the mid end player/AVR market. Secondly, because it is so smooth and easy on the ears you can quite easily find yourself cranking up the volume to stupidly loud levels without discomfort or long term fatigue. It could be just the right piece of kit in some systems without having to spend silly money.
post #398 of 1791
Quote:
Originally Posted by OtherSongs View Post

BTW re your comment "the extra media support offered by the Oppo BDP-93" would you be kind enough to list at least *2* of the extras (that one gets with a 93 player, aside from the support issue where OPPO wins hands down) that you think might be important for others?

Well the Oppo supports DVD-A, SACD, ISO (firmware dependent) and a multitude of user created media. However, I would be the first one to suggest to a perspective buyer to only consider the Oppo if you benefit significantly from its feature set.

For myself I DVD-A, SACD and FLAC were significant enough.

Finding a transport that supports 7.1 analog in 2012 for $350.00 is not a bad purchase if you require this feature.
post #399 of 1791
Quote:
Originally Posted by ti-triodes View Post

I just ordered a 500 that's going to replace a 210 I have in my home office. There's a Oppo 95 in my main system so the Panny will spend a few days on top of the Oppo. I'm interested to see how they compare with each other. Sometimes this hobby can be a whole lot of fun!

ti-triodes,

I totally agree about this hobby. My wife thinks that I am certifiable when it comes to my audio/video equipment.
post #400 of 1791
Quote:
Originally Posted by bakerwi View Post

Well the Oppo supports DVD-A, SACD, ISO (firmware dependent) and a multitude of user created media. However, I would be the first one to suggest to a perspective buyer to only consider the Oppo if you benefit significantly from its feature set.

For myself I DVD-A, SACD and FLAC were significant enough.

Finding a transport that supports 7.1 analog in 2012 for $350.00 is not a bad purchase if you require this feature.

Oppo does NOT support ISO. It was removed. Oppo' price does not change but panny does. Some online stores have this player for $299.00.
post #401 of 1791
I compared the Oppo 95 analog DAC to HDMI with Anthem ARC on for 2 Ch B&W 805D speakers. I agree that the DAC in the Oppo analog sounds better but you have to tune in and be a critical listener.

I plan to compare the 500 sometime this weekend.
post #402 of 1791
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian-HD View Post

Oppo does NOT support ISO. It was removed. Oppo price does not change but panny does. Some online stores have this player for $299.00.

The ISO support is firmware dependent. I am still using the July 13, 2011 official firmware which introduced ISO support. You only lose ISO support if you update to the March 06, 2012 official firmware. I haven't had a reason to update the firmware as I have not encountered any playback issues. In addition, if a playback issue was to arise I have 2 official firmwares to exaust before I get to the firmware that removed ISO support. At which time I will use other transports in my setup for troublesome discs.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian-HD View Post

I compared the Oppo 95 analog DAC to HDMI with Anthem ARC on for 2 Ch B&W 805D speakers. I agree that the DAC in the Oppo analog sounds better but you have to tune in and be a critical listener.

I plan to compare the 500 sometime this weekend.

I find analog implementation in the 95 quite good, but you are correct about the critical listening part and you do need to have a capable system. Your B&W 805Ds have the chops for the task. I think my main setup is capable also.
post #403 of 1791
Quote:
Originally Posted by bakerwi View Post

Well the Oppo supports DVD-A, SACD, ISO (firmware dependent) and a multitude of user created media. However, I would be the first one to suggest to a perspective buyer to only consider the Oppo if you benefit significantly from its feature set.

For myself I DVD-A, SACD and FLAC were significant enough.

Finding a transport that supports 7.1 analog in 2012 for $350.00 is not a bad purchase if you require this feature.

Thanks for the response. Also thanks to Brian-HD.

I already have ~$850 DVD players bought at great discount ($100 and $200) just after the '08/'09 financial mess which coincided with the arrival of blu-ray (over HD-DVD) and dumping of DVD players by all of the big player manufacturers.

So I'm well covered for SACD and DVD-A playback.

I wanted a new blu-ray player that is 1) very fast to load discs and move the read head during chapter skip and 2) quiet and 3) has great SQ on it's 7.1 analog outs and 4) not funky with simple stuff like having the remote work OK even when it is used from a side or up angle (a big complaint that I had with Monoprice's recent $77 blu-ray player, and why I'll pop the 500's bloody folding front panel off the unit in another 2 weeks (bad back, I watch TV mostly lying on the floor and that folding panel gets in the remote's line of sight)).

The new Panasonic 500 of this thread does all of the above, has excellent detail, and not a trace of harsh digital sound. I expect it to outshine the OPPO 93 when people with both units start to make cautious comparisons re SQ (Sound Quality).
post #404 of 1791
Quote:
Originally Posted by ti-triodes View Post

I just ordered a 500 that's going to replace a 210 I have in my home office. There's a Oppo 95 in my main system so the Panny will spend a few days on top of the Oppo. I'm interested to see how they compare with each other. Sometimes this hobby can be a whole lot of fun!

You have a 210 and Oppo 95! Now your getting the 500?
Awesome, I wish I had 3 too, actually I do but 2 are Bluray drives in HTPC (doesn't count) and one is PS3. Please post your differences in picture quality, thanks.
post #405 of 1791
Quote:
Originally Posted by OtherSongs View Post

I expect it to outshine the OPPO 93 when people with both units start to make cautious comparisons re SQ (Sound Quality).

I own both, but what is a cautious comparison and why do you think it will outshine the 93 in sound quality?
post #406 of 1791
Quote:
Originally Posted by bakerwi View Post

I own both, but what is a cautious comparison

1. Showing or practicing caution; careful.

2. Tentative or restrained; guarded.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bakerwi View Post

and why do you think it will outshine the 93 in sound quality?

The 5.1 and stereo music, from this new/cheap Panasonic 500 player (via it's 5.1 RCA outs), compares favorably to music from my best SACD players and many SACD discs.
post #407 of 1791
I watched Hugo 2d on my 500/rs35 projector set up last night and I must say,it was the best image I've ever seen.The sound was also impressive,using analog outs to my Denon 4806.I've had a ps3 hooked up ever since it came out.
post #408 of 1791
Quote:
Originally Posted by OtherSongs View Post

1. Showing or practicing caution; careful.

2. Tentative or restrained; guarded.

The 5.1 and stereo music, from this new/cheap Panasonic 500 player (via it's 5.1 RCA outs), compares favorably to music from my best SACD players and many SACD discs.

I ask you what you mean by "cautious comparison" and you give me the definition of "cautious". How does this apply to evaluating sound quality? You basically listen to music that you are somewhat familiar with and make a judgment call on which you prefer. It also helps to have a system capable of resolving these differences and/or short comings between transports if they exist.

Do you still own these SACD players or are you going from memory concerning their sound quality in comparison to the Panasonic? Also, do you mine sharing which transports they were?

As I listen more and more to this Panasonic I am coming to the conclusion that Panasonic has done a very good job given the price point of this player.

I have an Onkyo TX-NR5008 in my family room and an Integra DHC-80.3 in my main system, which implements the same Burr Brown DACs that are in this Panasonic, which I believe to be the PCM-1795. Someone correct me if I am wrong. I can tell you with a certainty that they are not implemented the same though I do hear some of the same characteristics. I know I am talking about an AVR versus a transport.
post #409 of 1791
Quote:
Originally Posted by bakerwi View Post

I ask you what you mean by "cautious comparison" and you give me the definition of "cautious".

Exactly.

My take was that the dictionary definition of "cautious" was the only "safe" response to the 1st part of your response/post.

Meaning that I don't have any real direct understanding of who you are, nor if I can trust you to engage in a meaningful exchange.

I used the thoughtful term "cautious comparison" and the next thing I know there you are asking what I mean by that.

Red flag in my experience on AVS.

Which can get one (or more) banned from posting in a thread in an AVS forum, which I do NOT want to happen to me in this thread where I *own* the 500 player!

But thanks for the long post, which I snipped; I'll respond in a meaningful way to some of the remainder in the next hour.
post #410 of 1791
Quote:
Originally Posted by bakerwi View Post

As I listen more and more to this Panasonic I am coming to the conclusion that Panasonic has done a very good job given the price point of this player.

Ah yes, "...given the price point"

But in my reasonably extensive experience, this Panasonic 500 blu-ray player is a great music player regardless of price.

Meaning that with SQ things really don't change all that fast, even within the rapidly changing blu-ray player market.

But you might be right with your "...given the price point"

I look forward to seeing comments by those who own and compare both the OPPO 95 and this Panasonic 500.

And so far none has done that.

I do own (and still have and use) an expensive last generation Denon 5910ci DVD universal player ($4k new, bought at closeout at $1k).

Music SQ (5.1 RCA outs) of my new Panasonic 500 player and of my several older high-end DVD players is comparable.

No big surprise to me there.

Those with early experience in the early solid state days days will remember the great expectations and the great disappointments.
post #411 of 1791
All the adds say we can use Pandora, but I can't find it. Any tips?

Thanks in advance, Bill
post #412 of 1791
Two issues resolved

1) NetFlix lip sync is corrected by deleting the remote control app.


2) Bookmark is corrected by a simple side card (i.e. Sandisk 1 GB or higher) inserted in the front of the player.

Manual

"Insert an SD card with 1 GB or more free space.
≥ The SD card is used as the local storage."
post #413 of 1791
Quote:
Originally Posted by Latinoheat View Post

You have a 210 and Oppo 95! Now your getting the 500?
Awesome, I wish I had 3 too, actually I do but 2 are Bluray drives in HTPC (doesn't count) and one is PS3. Please post your differences in picture quality, thanks.


Will do after I let the 500 burn in a bit. When I got home today I had a nice present waiting on the porch. A pic for those who are into this type of thing. Thankfully, I'm not! Pardon the crooked pic as well as the hanging wires. I had to open a couple of wire bundles to install it.





I only had a 1 hour to try it out so far. The PQ is outstanding but I'm surprised how good it sounds. With all the sound processing turned off, there's a nice warmth to music CD's. It's very similar to the 210, if anyone is familiar with that model.

A couple of quick notes. The remote for the 210 does work, just match the command codes as usual. I remember there was a question whether the old remotes work with the 2012 models. The menu is usable when the disc is playing- a la Oppo. I didn't try it on everything but it's an improvement over the 210. The touchpad is easy after 30 seconds or so if you're used to devices that use finger motions. It's still a gimmick, however. The Panny app for the iPad/iPhone is still better.


One really annoying thing. You can not connect to the internet it there is an FW upgrade available. You *must* DL the upgrade or you will not get content. You can't ignore a FW upgrade at all. Some more Panny quirkiness.
post #414 of 1791
That's a nice, clean rack. I'm comparing the BDT500 and Sony S790 right now and I'm torn. I like BD playback on the Panasonic better but the Sony does a much better job of upconverting DVD. Noticeably so. Decisions, decisions.

Enjoy your new toy!
post #415 of 1791
Quote:
Originally Posted by ti-triodes View Post

One really annoying thing. You can not connect to the internet it there is an FW upgrade available. You *must* DL the upgrade or you will not get content. You can't ignore a FW upgrade at all. Some more Panny quirkiness.

That is true when the update addresses Vierra Connect. If it's just a playability update, you can bypass them.

S~
post #416 of 1791
Quote:
Originally Posted by dpippel View Post

That's a nice, clean rack. I'm comparing the BDT500 and Sony S790 right now and I'm torn. I like BD playback on the Panasonic better but the Sony does a much better job of upconverting DVD. Noticeably so. Decisions, decisions.

Enjoy your new toy!

I have the same impression and likely will be keeping the Panny. BD PQ is nice.
post #417 of 1791
Quote:
Originally Posted by dpippel View Post

That's a nice, clean rack. I'm comparing the BDT500 and Sony S790 right now and I'm torn. I like BD playback on the Panasonic better but the Sony does a much better job of upconverting DVD. Noticeably so. Decisions, decisions.

Enjoy your new toy!

Well, this is quite confusing. Smackrabbit, who has done a lot of objective testing, says there should be no difference between BD playback from player to player. Turning off all 'enhancements,' they should be completely identical, bit for bit (digital...), (...to analog) pixel for pixel.

I guess the debate continues.
post #418 of 1791
Quote:
Originally Posted by johncourt View Post

Well, this is quite confusing. Smackrabbit, who has done a lot of objective testing, says there should be no difference between BD playback from player to player. Turning off all 'enhancements,' they should be completely identical, bit for bit (digital...), (...to analog) pixel for pixel.

I guess the debate continues.

My suggestion is to bring it in your home.
post #419 of 1791
Quote:
Originally Posted by OtherSongs View Post

I do own (and still have and use) an expensive last generation Denon 5910ci DVD universal player ($4k new, bought at closeout at $1k).

See we do have something in common other than the Panasonic 500 as I too own the 5910CI.

As far as this Panasonic competing with Denon on analog playback I really don't think so. I picked my Denon up from my neighbor about year ago as he knew that I always coveted this transport. I first heard the Denon in his setup and was blown away. The Denon has one of the best analog implementation that I have had the pleasure to hear and I've heard some highend transports on very revealing setups. Prior to that the only other transport that had a similar affect on me is when I upgraded my stock Oppo BDP-83 to the SE edition. This is also what prompted me to purchase the BDP-95 when it became available and I have not been disappointed.

As time permit I will be taking a closer listen to the Panasonic. I think some are predisposed to hear hear improvement based on the marketing of the analog section of the player.
post #420 of 1791
Quote:
Originally Posted by johncourt View Post

Well, this is quite confusing. Smackrabbit, who has done a lot of objective testing, says there should be no difference between BD playback from player to player. Turning off all 'enhancements,' they should be completely identical, bit for bit (digital...), (...to analog) pixel for pixel.

I guess the debate continues.

Indeed. My comeback is that if the USER controls can affect the quality of "bit perfect" Blu-ray output, why can't the manufacturer tweak the default output to look better than the competition? Well, I think the answer is that they can and probably do. All I know is that in my system there IS a difference between the Panny and the Sony with both in "direct mode" and all enhancements disabled.
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