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How do you all feel abput Axiom speakers? - Page 2  

post #31 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Semp1 View Post

I have an Outlaw LFM-1plus. I'm not looking to replace that any time soon. But I'm looking at the M60s with Qs8 surrounds and the VP150 center channel. Here's the thing. That right there that's a 2+ grand system just for the Axiom's with out a sub. But if I wanted to make them all piano black like some of their competitors. We're looking at a ton of money ($900+ more) I think this is what people forget to factor in. The factory finish of these speakers seems very stock and cheap, with out any customization. I'll probably go with the vinyl finish over the stock. It's only $115 for the whole set, matches the Outlaw, and looks nicer if I do decide to purchase. I got to say though I'm leaning strongly toward them. So basically what I am asking is this actually the best speaker set you can get for 2 grand. If not I would love suggestions.


I KNOW you can do way better for the money. I owned the M60Ti's, vp150 center, and qs8 surrounds. They are ok at low volumes, but the minute you turn it up they are ear bleeding. The finish is just cheap vinyl...nothing to get excited about. There's almost no internal bracing in these either.

I would strongly suggest you investigate other brands that will give you better sound and probably be cheaper than what you are looking at.

I will add that the soundstage was so far off for music that it would make the vocals sound like they were coming from the back somewhere...but the highs would blow your ear drums out.

They are an ok speaker but I feel they are priced at about double what they are worth. the fit/finish is basic at best and can be outdone by just about any other company. It's too bad too because they are a Canadian company, and I'd love to see yet another awesome speaker company come from my home...but these products I just can not endorse. I strongly suggest you audition from someone who has them near you BEFORE buying anything.
post #32 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirquack View Post

Back in the day if a speaker was described as "bright" it was a good thing. It described a speaker that was true to the original recording, which is what you want. Today, people have twisted that definition into a negative meaning. I've owned many variations of different Axiom models from the Ti's to the current V3 models, and have never found them to be "bright" in a negative way, actually just the opposite to be true. As some have mentioned above, they are not overpriced for the performance you get, and are one of the best bang for the buck out there, not used to be, still are. Infinity Primus, lower end KEF's, and RTI's, hardly. People, if you want a close comparison go listen to some Paradigm Studio's or B&W 703's, that is a much closer representation of what your getting. Semp, in regards to your Onkyo, yes it would drive the 80's with no issues, but a lot depends on your listening habits and how loud. The 80's do dip below 4ohm slightly at a few frequency ranges, but in fact are more like a 6ohm speaker if you look at the entire freq range. Look at their hearing threads section and do an audition locally and let your ears make up your mind, not what some say on here.

I've never really thought the Axioms were really bright, just frail and thin sounding no fullness at all. Axioms aren't outdated really, they just haven't kept up with the competition. They stand by with the same product they have for the last 10ish years, while others are constantly updating and stretching the limit on price to performance ratio. While Axiom says Nope can't do any better than we have already done.

So because Axioms DBT with their own staff says the Axioms are compariable to Paradigm Studios doesn't mean they actually are. Look back at the Audioholics $1000 floor standing shootout, if the Axioms are so great they didn't wipe the floor with the so call lesser speakers. No one but Axiom and their fanboys say that Axiom are compariable to much more expensive speakers. Axiom is right there with EMP, JBLs, Klipsch, Polk, Paradigm Monitor, eD A6 series. They are not Studio or Sig killers nor are they compariable to high end B&W, PSB, Monitor ect. So Axiom says they are compariable to more expensive speakers means its the gospel right? Their subwoofers are no were near compariable to any ID brands. So Axiom fan boys say that they are musical since they don't play loud. But most of the competition like HSU is just as musical maybe more so, plays loud and lower and is half the price. Same thing with SVS, use to not be that way SVS was far from musical, but the new PB12 NSD with the custom Peerless driver is just as musical and kills the EP500 and EP600 at 40Hrz and under for less than half the price again. The EP600 and EP800 have almost zero bracing with cause distortion but yet that some how makes them musical???


Weird to see an Axiom fan here on AVS, they said on their little forum that AVS is a horrible nasty hateful place.
post #33 of 225
I agree with a lot of what gtpsuper24 says. I have the Paradigm studio line, and ordered an Axiom bookshelves when I was thinking about starting a second system. I kept hearing they sound like the studios, so I ordered a set. No matter what Axiom owners say, they do NOT sound anything like the studios. There is nothing remotely close, sound wise or build quality, thus you will pay more for the studios. But who ever pays full price anyway. I thought they were thin sounding and the bass just wasn't there. I picked the studio line because of the the way they sounded, they are very detailed and have a very good low end. After I kept hearing about how the Axiom sounded so much like the Paradigm studios, I was very dissapointed and sent them back without hesitation. I have read that if you don't want the aggravation of ordering the Axiom just to demo them, to just go listen to the studios and if you like them you can then come home and order the Axioms. Do not believe this, it is far from the truth. It's almost like a store salesman that is just trying to make a sale, rather then getting you the product you actually want.
If they are in your price range and you like the sound, great. I am a great believer in, you get what you pay for. Also I would say, if you are really cutting out the middle man, then they should be cheaper.

Cheers!

P.S. I also read at the Axoim forum, that they have no love for the AVS forum members.
post #34 of 225
They pride themselves on the fact the M80 sounds almost as good as the S8...yet...cost hundreds less then the Studio 100's. They talk about better value & performance going with Axioms over other highly regarded brands...but if you're to factor in the added cost of real wood venner or the HGB finishes (ie:found with higher end products like the Studio 100's or other ID brands) the value in buying the m80's is reduced rather quickly...IMO.
post #35 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtpsuper24 View Post

So because Axioms DBT with their own staff says the Axioms are compariable to Paradigm Studios doesn't mean they actually are.

Axiom calls those tests DBT's, but they're not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by John1400 View Post

P.S. I also read at the Axoim forum, that they have no love for the AVS forum members.

I have a great deal of skepticism for any company-owned forum, even from products that I own personally.
post #36 of 225
Their advertising hype is amazing though. I had a pair of M22Tis that I ended up selling on ebay for $450! ($48 below msrp) O_O

Re-sale value is fantastic, just like Bose.
post #37 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Semp1 View Post

I see nothing really on this brand. Are they good. Reviews seem to think so. They're not too expensive and really not cheap. So I'm curious.

I base my opinions solely on the opinion of audio forum 'herds' [like herds of gazelles, wildebeests, etc].

Based on the herd's opinions three years ago I thought Axioms were the greatest thing since sliced bread, penicillin and destined to outplay Wilson Watt-Puppies.

They were the darlings of audio reviewers. Listening to them back then was like what angels must hear when the heavenly choir sings. Those were the days, good times, good times.

Last year because of the herd I began to change my mind and came down to earth. They began to sound like they were glorified Polks or Klipsch.

That laugh I thought was kind of cute was becoming annoying. They began putting on weight and embarrassing me by getting drunk in public. We used to enjoy life going out all the time. Now all the Axioms want to do is sit at home, eat chips and watch American Idol. Worst of all, I had a sneaking suspicion they were sleeping with my best friend. The herd began to turn on them.

This year they are destined to be spoken in the same sentence as Bose. By the end of the year equal to anything sold out of white vans.

I eagerly await the next audio 'shiny thing' that the audio forum herd can put on a pedestal, become bored with after 30 months or so then treat like a dirty whore when we are through with her... uh... I mean 'them', the next morning.

I don't know about anyone else but the next time I see the Axioms I'm going make sure it sees me stepping out with a pair of Maggies on one arm and some Thiels on the other, both dressed to the nines. Oh snap!
post #38 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by kickerofelves View Post

I base my opinions solely on the opinion of audio forum 'herds' [like herds of gazelles, wildebeests, etc].

Based on the herd's opinions three years ago I thought Axioms were the greatest thing since sliced bread, penicillin and destined to outplay Wilson Watt-Puppies.

They were the darlings of audio reviewers. Listening to them back then was like what angels must hear when the heavenly choir sings. Those were the days, good times, good times.

Last year because of the herd I began to change my mind and came down to earth. They began to sound like they were glorified Polks or Klipsch.

That laugh I thought was kind of cute was becoming annoying. They began putting on weight and embarrassing me by getting drunk in public. We used to enjoy life going out all the time. Now all the Axioms want to do is sit at home, eat chips and watch American Idol. Worst of all, I had a sneaking suspicion they were sleeping with my best friend. The herd began to turn on them.

This year they are destined to be spoken in the same sentence as Bose. By the end of the year equal to anything sold out of white vans.

I eagerly await the next audio 'shiny thing' that the audio forum herd can put on a pedestal, become bored with after 30 months or so then treat like a dirty whore when we are through with her... uh... I mean 'them', the next morning.

I don't know about anyone else but the next time I see the Axioms I'm going make sure it sees me stepping out with a pair of Maggies on one arm and some Thiels on the other, both dressed to the nines. Oh snap!


Very entertaining review
post #39 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by kickerofelves View Post

I base my opinions solely on the opinion of audio forum 'herds' [like herds of gazelles, wildebeests, etc].

Based on the herd's opinions three years ago I thought Axioms were the greatest thing since sliced bread, penicillin and destined to outplay Wilson Watt-Puppies.

They were the darlings of audio reviewers. Listening to them back then was like what angels must hear when the heavenly choir sings. Those were the days, good times, good times.

Last year because of the herd I began to change my mind and came down to earth. They began to sound like they were glorified Polks or Klipsch.

That laugh I thought was kind of cute was becoming annoying. They began putting on weight and embarrassing me by getting drunk in public. We used to enjoy life going out all the time. Now all the Axioms want to do is sit at home, eat chips and watch American Idol. Worst of all, I had a sneaking suspicion they were sleeping with my best friend. The herd began to turn on them.

This year they are destined to be spoken in the same sentence as Bose. By the end of the year equal to anything sold out of white vans.

I eagerly await the next audio 'shiny thing' that the audio forum herd can put on a pedestal, become bored with after 30 months or so then treat like a dirty whore when we are through with her... uh... I mean 'them', the next morning.

I don't know about anyone else but the next time I see the Axioms I'm going make sure it sees me stepping out with a pair of Maggies on one arm and some Thiels on the other, both dressed to the nines. Oh snap!

I don't think the dislike of Axiom products is a "follow the herd kind of thing" its that they don't improve their speakers like other manufactuers do. The M towers and M2-M22 haven't changed much at all, but the prices have gone up alot over the years. They have painted themselves in a corners, they claim that no one can make a better tower than the M80 so there for if they would remodel it and improve it, it will show they were wrong this entire time. To stay on top you have to be innovative. Axiom hasn't, like the new VP160 they should have had that center channel 10 yrs ago but its taken them this long to get one, while other manufactorers have had a center like that for 15-20yrs. But they think its some new advancement in audio research and design

I don't think they are bad speakers really, just no where near the bang for the buck they use to be compared to what was out there at the time. There is so many new or newer brands out there that have raised the bar and have taken performance and value to the extreme. This might be why most of the Axiom fans on the forum dislike so many other forums is they live in their own little world that Axiom is the best at what they do and all others can only come in second to Axiom.
post #40 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtpsuper24 View Post

I don't think the dislike of Axiom products is a "follow the herd kind of thing" its that they don't improve their speakers like other manufactuers do. The M towers and M2-M22 haven't changed much at all, but the prices have gone up alot over the years. They have painted themselves in a corners, they claim that no one can make a better tower than the M80 so there for if they would remodel it and improve it, it will show they were wrong this entire time. To stay on top you have to be innovative. Axiom hasn't, like the new VP160 they should have had that center channel 10 yrs ago but its taken them this long to get one, while other manufactorers have had a center like that for 15-20yrs. But they think its some new advancement in audio research and design

I don't think they are bad speakers really, just no where near the bang for the buck they use to be compared to what was out there at the time. There is so many new or newer brands out there that have raised the bar and have taken performance and value to the extreme. This might be why most of the Axiom fans on the forum dislike so many other forums is they live in their own little world that Axiom is the best at what they do and all others can only come in second to Axiom.

My post was just a send-up of how things changed in just a short time.

I disagree somewhat in that I think the turning on Axiom by online posters looks a lot like the casebook definition of 'follow the herd' vis a vis audio forum opinions. While you have well thought out criticisms, now there are forum posters comparing them to Bose of all things [I mean for God's sake].

About three years or so ago I thought about getting some M80 to play around with. I got called up and deployed to the Middle East came back and after a long time away from forums I was pretty shocked at the change in conventional wisdom.

Of course the absolutely horrendous Skiing Ninja review of the M80s didn't help. It was one of the most devastating take-downs of an audio product I've read by a respected (at least in a lot of online circles) audio guy I've ever seen. The Axiom team's disastrous posts on the topic (sort of a case lesson in how not to respond to criticisms) didn't help things.
post #41 of 225
I think when people are comparing them with bose, that it is about the marketing aspect of it. nothing to do with the sound. You see the ads all over the place and also leading you to believe that their speakers are giving you the same quality of products that might cost considably more.
post #42 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by John1400 View Post

I think when people are comparing them with bose, that it is about the marketing aspect of it. nothing to do with the sound. You see the ads all over the place and also leading you to believe that their speakers are giving you the same quality of products that might cost considably more.

Even that is a stretch though isn't it? I mean Bose advertising is another zip code compared to Axiom's or any of a number of audio products. The Bose moniker is poison on every audio forum, advertising or audio capabilities.

I'm not defending Axioms products or even their ad claims just trying to get some rationality into the argument or more exactly trying to grapple with how a product can go from being critic's darling to out of favor (to put it mildly) in the space of a few dozen months. 'gtpsuper24' gives some of the reason but doesn't explain all of it I think.

It doesn't have to be Axiom--it could be any product even outside of audio--but I think there's a lesson to be learned on how products can lurch from one end of the spectrum to another and be driven by forum opinions. Not always a bad thing of course as the AV123 thing showed, but an observation.
post #43 of 225
It didn't happen over night the Skiing Ninja deal was 3-4yrs ago. Even as far back as say 2008 Axiom wasn't recommended, brought up in conversation, nothing.
post #44 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by kickerofelves View Post

Of course the absolutely horrendous Skiing Ninja review of the M80s didn't help. It was one of the most devastating take-downs of an audio product I've read by a respected (at least in a lot of online circles) audio guy I've ever seen. The Axiom team's disastrous posts on the topic (sort of a case lesson in how not to respond to criticisms) didn't help things.

I think in the case of SN's review, it's simply pointing out that there are realities to a speaker that not everyone necessarily notices. It also shows how hype or hyperbole can fuel something to be far more than it really is. A dog is a dog, a car is a car, and a poorly designed speaker is a poorly designed speaker. It can either be viewed as a "devestating take-down", or a dose of reality. From what I read, all the review did was describe the interior of the speaker, and then a series of measurements.

Axiom's responses were bad, but what really was outrageous was how they described their "dbt's", which were far from what a true dbt really is. All of what they said brought a bad light into the company as a whole.
post #45 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy p View Post

I don't find my Axioms to sound harsh...if anything they sound warm or muted... kinda laid back to me. They lack the detail, imaging or transparency to make a recording sound harsh or bright. I have always associated harshness along the lines of more brighter or forward sounding speakers and why auditioning in home is the best way to determine what you like.

Sorry, but if you think that Axiom aren't forward but warm or muted. Then there is either something wrong with your ears, or you have your system set up wrong. I've owned them. I've recommended them. I like forward speakers. And Axiom are FORWARD. I realize that speakers are really one of the only true subjective component left these days, but while someone may offer an opinion on how they like them they are far opposite of warm and muted.

And an earlier poster was right. The VP150 is a piece of shite. I sent mine back. It rattled and sounded like a tin can. Those M22's are nice little speakers though. If I wanted to use Axiom I'd get three of those and use one for a center. Much superior as a center.

But there are better options these days for equal money. Especially in the used market place.

Try looking at PSB. GREAT speakers. But there are a lot of great speakers out there these days.
post #46 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by htcritic View Post

Sorry, but if you think that Axiom aren't forward but warm or muted. Then there is either something wrong with your ears, or you have your system set up wrong. I've owned them. I've recommended them. I like forward speakers. And Axiom are FORWARD. I realize that speakers are really one of the only true subjective component left these days, but while someone may offer an opinion on how they like them they are far opposite of warm and muted.

And an earlier poster was right. The VP150 is a piece of shite. I sent mine back. It rattled and sounded like a tin can. Those M22's are nice little speakers though. If I wanted to use Axiom I'd get three of those and use one for a center. Much superior as a center.

But there are better options these days for equal money. Especially in the used market place.

Try looking at PSB. GREAT speakers. But there are a lot of great speakers out there these days.




Just to be clear my comments are based on my own personal experience comparing my 22's and Energy Rc30's against my Sierra NrT's. The Sierra NrT simply made the other 2 speakers sound muted as if they had a cold.
The imaging on the Sierra is pin point accurate, maybe even a touch aggressive or forward in nature..the mid range is smooth and revealing allowing you to hear every nuance in the recording....the others (which are good speakers in their own right) just sound muted or muddy in comparison and nothing like the Sierra. As for the Psb recommendation I've already compared & auditioned the Image b25, t45 and Imagine B and kept the Sierras...

YMMV....

Regards...

Here are some pic's>
M22 & M2

Sierra's

Energy Rc30's & LCR
post #47 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy p View Post

... As for the Psb recommendation I've already compared & auditioned the Image b25, t45 and Imagine B and kept the Sierras...

I wasn't suggesting that you should buy PSB. I was suggesting that the OP, based on his budget, might want to look at PSB rather than Axiom.

As I've posted in the past, I'm a speaker junky. I've owned them all and quite a few are still up in my attic because I can't bring myself to sell them. I've got 5.1 systems in three rooms and outstanding two channel in two other rooms. I had to find someplace for those speakers! Axiom's are forward. They are the furthest thing from warm that I have ever heard. Well...maybe some Klipsh might give them a run for the money. Personally I prefer Dunlavy and Triangle.
post #48 of 225
I used to post on the Axiom audio site, but no more.

Years ago, I had a system with Infinity Composition Overture 3 towers, RS3 side surrounds and some Mission 77ds back surrounds, I think it was driven by an Onkyo 797, anyway, I thought it was a wonderful system. I read so many good reviews about the Axiom M3Tis that I ordered a pair. I have to say, sound quality was wonderful and at $275 (old price) they were an astounding value compared to the big Infinities. I sold the Infinities and have been collecting Axioms ever since.

Anyway, over the years I filled my house with a bunch of systems. My flagship 9.2 system uses a pair of Thiel CS 3.6s up front, Axiom VP150 center, QS8 sides and Michaura M55 back surrounds and front outboard speakers (SVS 39-20 sub). Another HT system uses a pair of Michaura M665 speakers in front. These were made by Axiom, and use the same driver array as the Axiom M60s except for the tweeters, which are 3/4" Titaniums instead of the 1". They are wonderful. This system uses the VP180 center, and the old Mission 77ds side surrounds, a modified Dahlquist PDQ15" subwoofer.

I have a 2 channel system with a pair of M22s and a pair of Velodynes, a DLS 3500R and a 10" Velodyne, and another using a pair of modified Michaura M66s (same basic kit as the Axiom M50s) and an Epik Legend twin 12" sub under one speaker and a modified Kenwood SW300 sub under the other.

The Thiels are amazing. I read the comment describing the sound of the VP 150 is tinny, or thin. I disagree. Maybe it's the room, or the placement of the SVS sub, but instead of a wall of sound, I get an immersive, ocean of sound. Although you could not localize the bass, it appears that all the speakers are full range, including the VP150.

Same with the VP180 although I have to say good as the VP150 is, I like the VP180 better.

My M22s are not V3s or V2s, they are M22Tis, and when teamed with a pair of subs, they sound terrific. I have had the pleasure of listening to some high end systems, including Reference 3a de Capo MMs. I'd like to get a pair of the de Capos some day, and loved them, but the M22s did not embarrass themselves in comparison. I have compared the Axiom M3V3s to Wharfedale 9.1s, and although I thought the Wharfedales were excellent speakers, I loved the M3s.

I thought the M22s were not a good match with an Antique Sound Labs MG S1 15dt 5 watt per channel SET tube amp, but that amp made the M3s and Michaura M55s sing.

Much as I enjoy the Michaura M665 system which has produced some fantastic output for movies and music, the Thiels are simply in a different class.

What is the standard to apply to the sound quality of a system?

In my opinion, there is only one ... does it sound like a live performance? When it comes to jazz, female vocals, chamber music, the M22s, the Michaura M66s and M55s, when teamed with a decent sub, or two, with some recordings come really close. They are neutral and accurate.

Although many of the regulars who post on the Axiom forums are rigidly doctrinaire, and mock anyone who disagrees with their dogmas (tube amplification is inferior, all 'well designed' solid state amplifiers sound the same, cabling cannot make any difference in sound quality unless the cable is inadequate or defective) nevertheless, Axiom speakers produce truly excellent sound quality at a decent price.

Some here appear to have some grudge against Axiom. i know some of the Axiom detractors claim to have owned Axiom speakers, but my experience differs so greatly that I doubt the objectivity of their report of their subjective evaluations of Axioms.

Try them, I think you'll like them.
Edited by 2x6spds - 3/27/13 at 6:22pm
post #49 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2x6spds View Post

Some here appear to have some grudge against Axiom. i know some of the Axiom detractors claim to have owned Axiom speakers, but my experience differs so greatly that I doubt the objectivity of their report of their subjective evaluations of Axioms.

Try them, I think you'll like them.

No one has a grudge against Axiom. So since your experience differs so greatly compared to others makes yours more valid? Since you found that you enjoy Axioms that makes your opinion more valid than someone who thinks the VP150 is tinny and hollow sounding.

No one on any forum is stopping anyone from enjoying their Axiom speakers. You think they sound great and thats great more power to you, go ahead and get years of enjoyment out of them. But not everyone including myself and many others see value in Axiom speakers like they once had. The sum of the quality doesn't match the price.

I posted my thoughts about Axioms on Audioholics:

So I decided to play around with some IDs vs Axiom and add the options that would get the Axioms up to the same standard as Aperion for example. Axiom M3 with cast drivers and piano gloss is $664.20pr vs Aperions $430pr (plus free return shipping)

Aperion 5T tower is $950pr with PG and cast drivers. Axiom M50 comes to $1575 to match the same level as Aperion.

SVS PB12 Plus has standard black or PG as standard options for $1399 free shipping. Axioms EP600 (which doesn't really come close to the PB+) is $2482. A difference of $1100. Both are made in North America and both have respectable drivers, although I'd say SVS is far ahead in that department plus cabinet construction.


The disparity has grown too wide for anyone on AVS or Audioholics to recommend Axiom. Actually no one even bothers to mention Axiom so that should say something. When they want to charge you $40 for dual binding posts that Parts Express sells for $4.95 thats just wrong IMO, especially when competitors in Axioms price range offers that as standard equipment at no extra cost. When a company can offer Piano Gloss in a speaker in Axioms price range but Axiom has to charge double the cost of the speaker for it thats profit gouging.

Alot of well respected users has posted over the years, improvements they think would make Axiom more competitive and just over all a better speakers. But Axiom and their forum regulars wants nothing to do with it, but instead mock everyone else and views them as the enemy. Even if some of the stuff doesn't improve the sound, it adds to the value and over all craftsmenship.
post #50 of 225
Yes, you're right, it's only my opinion that Axiom's sound great and for sure, you are entitled to your opinion.

I have thought about Axiom's practice of what appear to be only modest and incremental changes to their speakers. Of course, the LFR 1100 seem to be a pretty dramatic departure from their conventional speakers.

The Axioms sound good. i suppose they could come out with a 'premium' line using special cabling, name brand capacitors, resistors and for those with real cross-overs all the rest of it). I'm sure that would increase the cost, I am not sure it would improve the sound quality. On the other hand, I modified my Michauras with upgraded Jensen caps and Caddock resistors, and they sound great, but so do the stock. I have never done an A/B comparison.

Axiom's philosophy appears to be pretty straight forward ... they test in an Anechoic chamber, their sound is neutral, except for the M3s no mid bass bump, their titanium tweeter gives sweet, accurate highs ... Axioms are not 'polite' speakers, they are not rolled off at the top and give accurate production as low as they go, which is not that low for the book shelves, they do not have that lush, plummy mid bass that my old Dahlquist DQM 9's had, they are not the 'darlings' of Stereophile or any other magazine as they hardly advertise.

As to their price, I think they could reduce the price and still make a reasonable profit. I don't know, but I figure (pretty close to pure speculation) their 6.5" aluminum drivers cost them $25-35 each, their 5.25"s a bit less, their titanium tweeter probably about the same. I don't know how much their cabinetry costs, they are solidly made and well finished with a vinyl covering. The drivers are screwed directly into the MDF cabinets. They're pretty simple. They are not fancy.

They're just darn good speakers, which, when paired with a good sub, driven by a good amp, and provided with good source material, they sound great, in my opinion.

Cheers
Edited by 2x6spds - 3/27/13 at 8:10pm
post #51 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2x6spds View Post

As to their price, I think they could reduce the price and still make a reasonable profit. I don't know, but I figure (pretty close to pure speculation) their 6.5" aluminum drivers cost them $25-35 each, their 5.25"s a bit less, their titanium tweeter probably about the same. I don't know how much their cabinetry costs, they are solidly made and well finished with a vinyl covering. The drivers are screwed directly into the MDF cabinets. They're pretty simple. They are not fancy.



I don't think they need a premium line they just need to improve the current line. Stock components sounds fine, the problem is that theres successful companies using the "name" brand components, cast drivers, higher quality finishes, and more standard options for the same price Axiom charges for none of that. If they want to use stock components go right ahead but as example the M22, which I owned is a $300-350 bookshelf priced at $518, M60 is a nice $700-800 tower, buts its over $1k, EP500 would be a great bang for the buck at $700-750 but its almost $1300 ect..... The Axiomites answer to this? Demonize and vilify the other companies as using "slave death camps" or "cheap foreign labor" to get there products that cheap. When in fact most of them use North American labor just like Axiom uses.

Axiom doesn't have to be fancy and top of the line. They just need to offer better bang for the buck than they currently are. Back in 2004 they were great but the industry has changed and evolved and new companies have stepped up and taken it too Axiom. But from what i'm seeing Axiom never fought back, instead it seemed like they just try and play the victim. They instead just lived in their own little bubble using their own DBTs to make themselves feel better.
post #52 of 225
I checked the price for the Epos Epic 1, a bookshelf with one 5.25" driver and soft dome tweeter, selling for $599. The M2 goes for $338. I have a pair of M2s and think they're good speakers though I'm not using them in any system right now. Reviews have been very favorable. I haven't heard the Epos but I've been curious about them. The Epos Elan 10 with a 6.15" driver goes for $1,000. The Axiom M3 with a 6.5" driver goes for $378 a pair (about $100 more than the first M3s i bought years ago.)

I think part of the problem with Axiom pricing is the value of the dollar which is low compared to the Loonie.
post #53 of 225
2x6spds:

Good to hear from you again. It's nice to see a reasonable & positive post or two about your experience with your Axioms. I too am very pleased with my 3 currents sets as they have provided me much audio enjoyment over the past year with their fine neutral, accurate sound.

As with any product, price is a factor; however, I don't find them to be way out of line when purchased in Canada - stuff is just more expensive up here. Similarly, buying elsewhere often loads on many more unexpected charges that can really add up. Last summer when I was contemplating purchasing my M2/EP400 system, I had planned to go with all of the bling - wood in piano finish, rosewood, etc, etc. I was just about to order when Axiom came up with a summer warehouse clearance sale that had significant savings on standard units So, while I would have preferred the bling units, I couldn't resist that bargain & grabbed them as they were in limited quantity. The savings basically paid for the Axiom stands for the M2s & then some - great deal IMO!

Having lived with this system since last summer, I find it to be outstandingly musical when powered by my tube amp/SACD player. Having said that, had I purchased the bling units, I still would have been very happy paying the extra & would not have felt that I was being overcharged as their performance would have equaled the bling for me.

Similarly, last summer I also won an Axiom auction on a pair of M3s in real wood for $314 at a couple of hundred dollar savings. Made me happy...

TAM
post #54 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by ex-labdriver View Post

As with any product, price is a factor; however, I don't find them to be way out of line when purchased in Canada - stuff is just more expensive up here.

Yep price is a major factor. I guess when your in Canada you don't see the large price disparity between the competition. Would you paid 2-3 times more for a EP400 compared to a SVS SB12 NSD? Which are both about the same size (displacement). Amp ratings are the same 400watt DSP but with similar extension and probably out put capibilties.

If someone wants a small sealed subwoofer in piano gloss, would you recommend that they get the Axiom EP400 for $1448 or the SVS SB12 NSD for $679/ ($1198 for a pair) and still save $300 over a single EP400.

Another example would be the Axiom M22 bookshelf vs the Aperion Grand http://www.aperionaudio.com/speakers/verus-home-theater-speakers/verus-grand-bookshelf-speaker

The Aperion is $699 pr with hand rubbed piano gloss, bi-wire/bi-amp binding posts, cast frame drivers. Axiom M22 with those same options is $1021. The Axiom M22s woofers are equal to a single 6.5" woofer (surface area). Which would you recommend for someone in the States looking for a nice "bling" and great sounding bookshelf?

The new Axiom amps. Would you pay $980 for a 2 channel 125watt 8ohm amp or $499 for an Emotiva 150watt 2channel amp? Both have free shipping, good warranties, reliable, well made ect... Is the Axiom 2x better?
post #55 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtpsuper24 View Post

Yep price is a major factor. I guess when your in Canada you don't see the large price disparity between the competition. Would you paid 2-3 times more for a EP400 compared to a SVS SB12 NSD? Which are both about the same size (displacement). Amp ratings are the same 400watt DSP but with similar extension and probably out put capibilties.

If someone wants a small sealed subwoofer in piano gloss, would you recommend that they get the Axiom EP400 for $1448 or the SVS SB12 NSD for $679/ ($1198 for a pair) and still save $300 over a single EP400.

Another example would be the Axiom M22 bookshelf vs the Aperion Grand http://www.aperionaudio.com/speakers/verus-home-theater-speakers/verus-grand-bookshelf-speaker

The Aperion is $699 pr with hand rubbed piano gloss, bi-wire/bi-amp binding posts, cast frame drivers. Axiom M22 with those same options is $1021. The Axiom M22s woofers are equal to a single 6.5" woofer (surface area). Which would you recommend for someone in the States looking for a nice "bling" and great sounding bookshelf?

The new Axiom amps. Would you pay $980 for a 2 channel 125watt 8ohm amp or $499 for an Emotiva 150watt 2channel amp? Both have free shipping, good warranties, reliable, well made ect... Is the Axiom 2x better?
Not a chance ! For a grand you can get the outlaw 7125 which is 7 channels at 125 watts. Both outlaw and emotiva are as good or better then axiom. As a canucks there is a better solution .

Get a shipping box near the border. I have one near Vancouver and its 5 bucks pickup fee no matter what size. Order to there and get the cheap shipping. Plan a holiday in the states for a weekend and have a good time with the wife. Then come back and pick it up and cross and pay no duty since you have been down for 48 hours. I bought three tekton speakers for 1600 , shipping was only 50 bucks and no duty or fees. If you live way from the border then its obviously an issue.
post #56 of 225
Hey ex-labdriver, really nice to post with you again!!

Mr. GT, surface area of a 6.5" driver is about 33 sq.in. Surface area of 2 x 5.25" drivers is about 43 sq.in. the difference is about 30%, not zero.

I'd rather judge a speaker by its sound quality rather than its solid unobtanium binding posts and 6 nines platinum internal wiring, titanium speaker baskets and Brazilian ebony finish breast rubbed by ,,, never mind.

I think you get my point. When I first got the M22s, I did not like them because they were not a good match with my 5 wpc SET tube amp. In my case, they are a good match with more powerful amps. I have paired these over achieving speakers with a Dayton DTA 100a (currently $72), Kenwood KA9100, Infinity DTM 5.3 2 channel receiver ... and they sound great with every one of these units.

As to Axiom subs, I've stayed away from them because I am a cheapskate (with the occasional lapse) when it comes to audio equipment. A pair of EP800 subs is on my wish list. I'd try them out.
post #57 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2x6spds View Post

Hey ex-labdriver, really nice to post with you again!!

Mr. GT, surface area of a 6.5" driver is about 33 sq.in. Surface area of 2 x 5.25" drivers is about 43 sq.in. the difference is about 30%, not zero.

I'd rather judge a speaker by its sound quality rather than its solid unobtanium binding posts and 6 nines platinum internal wiring, titanium speaker baskets and Brazilian ebony finish breast rubbed by ,,, never mind.

If you have a set of M22s handy measure the drivers. Outer surround to outer surround and you'll see that the actual radiating surface is about 4.25-4.5", Axiom includes the frame in there measurements, which doesn't produce sound. There isn't a standard for driver measurements, some companies use the frame as the driver size and others don't include the frame in the driver size. So Axioms M22 has a radating surface area of 30 sq. Arx woofers and HSU woofers measures 5.3 and 6.25 outer surround to outer surround. So the HSU woofer has the same surface area as the M22s dual woofers.

I know Exlab will go crazy, cause he hates these pictures but here a size comparison of two 5.25" woofers: The Axiom woofer came from a M22 V2 I got in 2008.

Image Resized at http://www.shrinkpictures.com
Edited by gtpsuper24 - 3/28/13 at 1:38pm
post #58 of 225
When I was looking for a new sub in 2011, I auditioned the EP500 and the new PB12-NSD in my home and felt the PB12 outclassed the Axiom for $521.00 less. I used SVS's trade-up option and got the PB12-Plus that is priced in line with the Axiom. The PB12-Plus would eat the EP500 and not bother to spit out the bones.
Edited by trolly - 3/28/13 at 2:27pm
post #59 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtpsuper24 View Post


here a size comparison of two 5.25" woofers: The Axiom woofer came from a M22 V2 I got in 2008.

Image Resized at http://www.shrinkpictures.com

Wow
post #60 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtpsuper24 View Post

There isn't a standard for driver measurements, some companies use the frame as the driver size and others don't include the frame in the driver size.
There is a standard. Drivers are sized according to the outer diameter of the frame. There is some leeway, you might find an eight has an actual diameter of 8 1/4 inches. Frames that have some edges squared are measured from the widest points. With smaller drivers the actual cone diameter will be about an inch less than the frame diameter, so a 5 1/4 inch driver would be expected to have a cone diameter of 4 to 4 1/4 inches.
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