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Archaea's Kansas City Blind Subwoofer Shootout 2012 - Page 6

post #151 of 848
Quote:
Originally Posted by nube View Post

No, it was duals of EVERY sub. Not sure how you missed that.

Im confused why the caps (2 ohms) werent run in a series to 4 ohm bridged, and the CHT run in parallel to the same 4 ohm bridged then (the 18.T are 8ohm correct?)

Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #152 of 848
Quote:
Originally Posted by omegaslast View Post

Im confused why the caps (2 ohms) werent run in a series to 4 ohm bridged, and the CHT run in parallel to the same 4 ohm bridged then (the 18.T are 8ohm correct?)

That certainly would have gotten a lot more power to the CHT's, but it wouldn't have gotten any more power to the Caps. Try the math and see.
post #153 of 848
What's interesting to me is that the dual HSU's were confused as a cap sealed or cap pro by 3 people. 1 person thought the cap pro was the HSU. I think that says a lot about the HSU's (I don't own them). We make all this fuss about measurements...but if we can't really tell the difference...
I realize that the better subs scored higher, but we all put all of this nit picking into buying a sub and when it comes down to it...it looks like the top guns are pretty close. AND for the most part we don't all know as much as we think we do, but that's typical. I've only been on AVS for a 1.5 years and know an iota of what some of you do. This is by far the best and most informative thread you'll find. For a bunch of guys with days jobs, this was about as well done as you're going to get I think.
post #154 of 848
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojomike View Post

That certainly would have gotten a lot more power to the CHT's, but it wouldn't have gotten any more power to the Caps. Try the math and see.

I know it equals the same watts for the caps, but i would think the nu3000 would be more comfortable being pushed with a 4 ohm bridged, as opposed to running 2ohm stereo and the impedence possibly dropping below 2ohm.

Might be a completely false assumption though
post #155 of 848
Quote:
Originally Posted by omegaslast View Post

I know it equals the same watts for the caps, but i would think the nu3000 would be more comfortable being pushed with a 4 ohm bridged, as opposed to running 2ohm stereo and the impedence possibly dropping below 2ohm.

Might be a completely false assumption though

It's hard to tell which configuration would work better, but I think it would wind up pretty close either way for the Caps. When you run an amp bridged at 4ohms, the output stage "sees" 2ohms.
post #156 of 848
Quote:
Originally Posted by omegaslast View Post

Im confused why the caps (2 ohms) werent run in a series to 4 ohm bridged, and the CHT run in parallel to the same 4 ohm bridged then (the 18.T are 8ohm correct?)

Actually, its a pair of 18.1s. And yes they are 8 ohm impedence. No matter how you look at it, if the CHT 18.1s were run in a 2 channel config @ 8 ohm each on the Inuke, they were severely handicapped from the start, ~ 400 watts max per side. No doubt the Inuke itself was clipped severely if this is the case. Talk about short changed and ripped......

As others mentioned, a better solution would have been the 18.1s wired in parallel, Inuke in bridged mode @ 4 ohms. I hope this is what really occurred there.
post #157 of 848
Maybe this has been mentioned previously but what I found the most impressive was that the smallest sub (also sealed) Captivator S performed at such a high level that it was mistaken for the Orbit Shifter more than the Orbit Shifter itself was. Even though noone knew exactly what sub was playing or when, they ALL knew the Orbit Shifter was in the mix somewhere and I am sure there was some preconceived notions (rightfully so) that the OS was gonna be the monster of the group. To me the Captivator S is the biggest suprise of the test.....a complete unknown comes out of nowhere and beats the world?? AWESOME!!
post #158 of 848
The CHTs were run bridged the night before after the stereo 8 ohms caused the amp to clip during skadoosh. It did not clip this time but some thought it did not sound good in the bridged mode. I wasn't really critically listening so was not sure if it was others imagining things. We then thought the problem was since the receiver has gain for individual sub channels. So the bridged pairs gain was increased by 3 dB. It however clipped during the skadoosh scene like it did in stereo 8 ohm. I believe it still clipped even without the 20 Hz boost ?
post #159 of 848
Quote:
Originally Posted by kgb540 View Post

Maybe this has been mentioned previously but what I found the most impressive was that the smallest sub (also sealed) Captivator S performed at such a high level that it was mistaken for the Orbit Shifter more than the Orbit Shifter itself was. Even though noone knew exactly what sub was playing or when, they ALL knew the Orbit Shifter was in the mix somewhere and I am sure there was some preconceived notions (rightfully so) that the OS was gonna be the monster of the group. To me the Captivator S is the biggest suprise of the test.....a complete unknown comes out of nowhere and beats the world?? AWESOME!!

I have a couple friends just about ready and chomping at the bit to sell their subs in favor of the Cap S and possibly a pair of SubM HP's. This blind GTG has been great.
post #160 of 848
Quote:
Originally Posted by kgb540 View Post

Maybe this has been mentioned previously but what I found the most impressive was that the smallest sub (also sealed) Captivator S performed at such a high level that it was mistaken for the Orbit Shifter more than the Orbit Shifter itself was. Even though noone knew exactly what sub was playing or when, they ALL knew the Orbit Shifter was in the mix somewhere and I am sure there was some preconceived notions (rightfully so) that the OS was gonna be the monster of the group. To me the Captivator S is the biggest suprise of the test.....a complete unknown comes out of nowhere and beats the world?? AWESOME!!

This was the setup that confused me the most. I did not enjoy it for music but somehow it surprised me for movies. It sounded huge compared to the other subs with not much overhang on notes. It was one of the room filling subs that I could live without it bothering me. Now I really wish Archae's blue cat would of jumped on the blind cover .

When it was turn for the orbit shifters to play the soundstage seemed smaller. I already guessed it as the sealed caps but then I thought the BHD scene confirmed it. During BHD, the front lights nearly turned off. I figured the smallest sealed box would use the most power during that scene. Thanks to Jeff and Mark, I learned a little about impedance curves of horns.
post #161 of 848
It should be done in another room if you were going to do it again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stitch1 View Post

So who thinks if we were to have a second GTG with the same subs doing everything the same just in a different order we would still vote the same way?

Also anyone know the prices of the Cap sealed? I didn't see it on their site?
post #162 of 848
I can't wait to see which sub has the smoothest frequency response.
post #163 of 848
Quote:
Originally Posted by HuskerOmaha View Post

I can't wait to see which sub has the smoothest frequency response.

With your luck, it will be dominated by ported designs.
post #164 of 848
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by polizzio View Post

Actually, its a pair of 18.1s. And yes they are 8 ohm impedence. No matter how you look at it, if the CHT 18.1s were run in a 2 channel config @ 8 ohm each on the Inuke, they were severely handicapped from the start, ~ 400 watts max per side. No doubt the Inuke itself was clipped severely if this is the case. Talk about short changed and ripped......

As others mentioned, a better solution would have been the 18.1s wired in parallel, Inuke in bridged mode @ 4 ohms. I hope this is what really occurred there.

slow down...

That isn't the case... There were four of us that Friday night previous to the subwoofer meet day that auditioned the INuke on the CHT subs and helped set the DSP to flat. kwarny, desertdome, tesseract67 and myself. We tried both 8ohm dual mono (stereo) and 4ohm bridged. Tesseract67 liked the sound of the 8ohm dual mono better. I let Tesseract67 lead on the amp choice in every way - I offered the Inuke option with a configured DSP to assist the CHT subs in having a more flat eq which would allow the comparison to be more equitable since all the other subs except the CHT subs and the Captivator pros had some sort of factory/vendor calibration. Tesseract67 already acknowledged that he was responsible for the choice and amp configuration of his setup. We auditioned the subs on the INnuke that Friday night and ran through some of the playlist after setting the DSP on Friday night. The bad noises experienced during the movie clips on Saturday's blind meet were heard on Friday night and I clearly discussed and warned Tesseract that we should not have any noise like that occurring in this meet because none of the other subs would have that noise. Tesseract67 said he liked the way the subs sounded otherwise and was willing to deal with a bit of whatever the noise (amp/sub whatever) was for the benefit of a flat frequency response and the additional bottom end for the other majority of the clips that the Inuke provided. The other two guys in the room will back me up on this I'm sure if there is any question. Tesseract was very enthusiastic about the sound. Had we more time we might have been able to fiddle with the DSP a bit more to get rid of the clip or overdriven noise, but we didn't. It was getting late and as you know we had a big long day planned the next day. We didn't listen to every clip and we had to make a decision in a short amount of time. The DSP wasn't vetted in full, but it was chosen as the amp setting. The FR looked much flatter than no dsp on Friday night and still was flat on Sunday when I pulled it up for the retest with omnimic.

My room is tough to drive. We overdrove to distortion every single sub in the last May 2011 subwoofer get together in my room including the powered cap and submersive (granted the volume was not set and we were playing with each sub to find limits). The CHT 18 drivers are not as robust as some of the other drivers in the meet and because they are passive drivers they don't have any limiters set in any onboard amp. Distortion will occur whether by sub or amp (or in this case both in my observance) as the limits are pressed - and we did press their limits. There is no way about it. This isn't a me vs. anyone or any company argument. I, nor our group doesn't have any hidden agenda in any form. I've pm'ed Craig on his CHT forums and told him that we encountered distortion on his drivers without clipping on our retest on Sunday in the 100hz to 20hz sine wave sweep - as I mentioned in a previous post, so it wasn't soley the amp. The distortion occurred during the music only during the sine wave, and when amp was only showing 2-3 signal lights - not clipping. While this distortion occurred the clip lights never came on. Tesseract and I thought it might be the room, but later day testing with Luke Kamp's subs showed it was not the room, nor did any of the other subs make that distortion noise at the 20hz end of the spectrum during the meet according to what I've heard, read through comments and seen posted. I offered to send craig the omnimic test results from our Sunday testing for review if he wants. The offer stands. Audyssey did not double boost the FR on Sunday's retest - in fact it cut it a dB or 2 right at 20hz off the same saved config that we used for the meet (set Friday night).

To the point of the subs auditioning better with the alternate amp. On Sunday we listened to the Dayton amp and did many measurements and while it didn't distort that I heard, it had significantly less bottom end - as in 50% or so less near 20hz (4dB). It wasn't tactile at all in my room, even from the main listening position. That wouldn't have been good for blind scores either - because the CHT blind audition was already noted as being a bass lite audition even with the DSP applied. Since we had a set volume on the subs, I'm of the reasonable opinion the scores would not have been better with less bass --- especially if the auditioners confirm the music selection did not have any distortion heard (outside of the initial sine sweep during the saturday lineup). The movies may have been a wash -- less bass in trade for a few distored clips...pick your poison. The CHT on the Inuke hit 118dB from our control desk 17 foot way in the back of the room. That's in line with expectations. It is quite possible that the 20 or so subwoofer drivers in the room, the additional people and additional equipment all sucked up the subs energy and pushed the subs a little harder than our friday night tests and our Sunday day tests and that there was more distortion during the blind listening test based on a bit hotter Audyssey config than in our two demo sessions beore and after -- I can't accurately speak to it because I wasn't sitting in the seating area during Saturday's meet, and neither can Luke or Tesseract because we were all in the back where everything sounded muddy all day.

Summarily - expectations were probably too high for the CHT subs on an unvetted amp and slight 20hz boost (+4dB) dsp config. After hearing the Dayton amp in my room on Sunday in the same timeframe as hearing the INuke, I think the CHT drivers preformed better on the Inuke amp than they would have on the Dayton amp, and so did Tessseract at the time of our retesting and he acknowledged so to me. The CHT subs sounded 'good' as I already said, not great - good -- in comparison to the other more expensive offerings....
To expect the less expensive drivers to compete with more expensive drivers with higher quality amps in a tough room was an inflated expectation.
post #165 of 848
Thread Starter 
all scorecards posted - sorry for the delay...

wlelandj's scores were interesting for the orbit shifter...I noticed he wasn't really a fan. I'm curious what you didn't like about it.
post #166 of 848
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post


wlelandj - Thanks for flying in...This fellow has the travel distance award. When he wants to upgrade he goes ALL out! Hey did you know you probably single handidly altered the results for the orbit shifters placment for movies from 1st to 3rd? You really didn't like them eh? I think your opinon in a blind test is as valid as anyone else, and the fact the orbit shifter demoed last means you weren't any longer unfamiliar with what you should/wanted to hear by this point. I find things like this interesting. If you don't mind - what did or didn't you like about the orbit shifter's audition? It got high marks by others?! If you look at the scorecard your distaste for the horn sound probably is the reason the orbit shifter didn't take top honors for movies - not only that but look where you placed it in the rankings. Not invalid - but quite interesting! It'll be fun to uncovers some of these anomolies in people's tastes as we vette the scores more!

"Hey did you know you probably single handidly altered the results for the orbit shifters placment for movies from 1st to 3rd?"

Just had to call me out, huh? I was hoping I could just quietly disappear under my rock. Believe me, when you posted the results, I was surprised as anyone. Just remember Jeff, the Cap and CapS practically tied for my second place.

Like you said, by it being last in the test, I had already been exposed to all the other subs and developed an ear for what I liked. I can remember being extremely impressed with the Captivators, as my scoring shows, but then I heard the Submersive and really liked what I heard.

While I lacked experience with hearing many home subs, I did go through the car audio phase in my youth. I had many different set ups, at one time having 4-15's, but ended up with 2-18's in my last system. They had a depth that my 15's couldn't match (oh the irony) playing notes I never even heard with the 15's, but lacked in the upper bass range. Anyway, I guess that experience defined what sound I was looking for...the depth of the 18's, but with more upper bass. Obviously car and home audio has come a long way since the 80's.

Now, after hearing those two, I felt like I knew what I liked. When I heard the CaptivatorS, I was extremely impressed. It seemed to have the same well rounded (whole enchilada ) sound as the Submersive and at that point it was a two horse race. I'd really like to do a blind test between the Cap and CapS and see how it would turn out. Only 2 points separated them and that was in the movie portion. Could have, being my first exposure to a world class sub, my scores on the Captivator been influenced and slightly elevated? I don't know. It would be interesting.

Ah, the Orbit Shifter, what can I say? I do know I loved them uncalibrated and hot, so maybe Audyssey did something to them that I just didn't like? By the same token, when we were playing with the CapS later that night (uncalibrated), I was unimpressed. Yet, I practically had it tied for second. Just goes to show how much set up and your own tweaks can factor in.
post #167 of 848
In my experience audyssey is always running subs hot, but, if we ignore audyssey:

+4db is a pretty big boost if i understand things right, since it was 8 ohms

RMS:
8 Ω per channel, stereo 315 W
4 Ω per channel, stereo 620 W
2 Ω per channel, stereo 1040 W

MAX:
8 Ω per channel, stereo 440 W
4 Ω per channel, stereo 820 W
2 Ω per channel, stereo 1520 W

4db just sucked up more than half the 315W RMS rating, so now youre down to less than 155w per 18" sub. Its strange to me that the subs were being driven to distortion with so little watts i guess.

Considering the size of the box im pretty sure the cht 18.1 cant bottom out (enclosure controls excursion), im also sure that a heavy natural roll off will occur that makes it impossible for the sub to need a high pass filter
post #168 of 848
Quote:
Originally Posted by polizzio View Post

Actually, its a pair of 18.1s. And yes they are 8 ohm impedence. No matter how you look at it, if the CHT 18.1s were run in a 2 channel config @ 8 ohm each on the Inuke, they were severely handicapped from the start, ~ 400 watts max per side. No doubt the Inuke itself was clipped severely if this is the case. Talk about short changed and ripped......

As others mentioned, a better solution would have been the 18.1s wired in parallel, Inuke in bridged mode @ 4 ohms. I hope this is what really occurred there.

As a billion discussions here have pointed out,

1) The Dayton SA1000 that the CHT subs used to come packaged with (and still have the option of) puts out no more than "(0.92% THD) 497 Watts into 8 ohms." That's quoted right off the CHT website, with no mention of it being MAX or RMS. I'll assume MAX. You do realize that the (maybe) 100W difference here is completely meaningless, don't you?

2) The Dayton SA1000 that the CHT subs used to come packaged with (and still have the option of) is recommended to owners because it has a built-in, selectable "Bass Boost: +3dB @25 Hz, Q=1.4" as quoted directly from their website. How is that so vastly different from the Inuke's +4db boost applied @ 20 Hz?

It's always something with this product line.

Why wasn't the set of Caps making bad noises under the same conditions?

What about all of the scenes that the CHT subs didn't clip on, yet were still scored lower on?

The CHT subs use a pro-style driver, which should be higher efficiency and, thus, given the same wattage, higher output. Why wasn't it?
post #169 of 848
Interesting, Archaea!
post #170 of 848
Archaea

Just need to ask, it was the Dayton amp used and not the Quad MFW-15 modified Dayton amp used correct?

Lots of good work here guys, Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

To the point of the subs auditioning better with the alternate amp. On Sunday we listened to the Dayton amp and did many measurements and while it didn't distort that I heard, it had significantly less bottom end - as in 50% or so less near 20hz (4dB).
post #171 of 848
Wow, this shootout and thread is great... and making it a blind audition was just genius (and no doubt a lot of work). You guys did just about everything (as far as I can tell) to make this as unbiased as possible under the circumstances and so all the opinions from the participants should be valid. I do wonder why though, you haven't included price into the rankings to also give value some importance... otherwise your rankings basically boil down to something like 'the more expensive sub will sound better' which most people would have already guessed at. If you could establish a performance number per $ spent, that might cast yet another light on what the value proposition of each sub is... anyway, that's just a thought that came to mind. It doesn't take away from the value of your shootout results... I found it all very interesting.

For me what I'll take away from this thread is something I've always sorta suspected but now this thread has crystalized for me as fact... everyones expectation for a sub is different. Some listeners focused on specific visceral aspects while others apparently were listening for 'tightness' and yet within each category (HT or music) there is disagreement on what was heard. Reading the individual comments for each sub has the relatively small number of listeners sorta all over the board on almost every sub in the shoot out. One listener hated a particular sub yet you find another had it as their personal favorite... no true universal agreement of love or hate expressed for any one sub except for the one known identity, the Klipsch and possibly the one having some technical difficulties, the CHT. If there is a single message to take away from this thread for me, it would be that there will never be "one sub to rule them all" because different listeners actually expect different things from the performance a sub... and that's the way it will always be. Anyway, GREAT JOB you guys!!!
post #172 of 848
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandbagger View Post

Archaea

Just need to ask, it was the Dayton amp used and not the Quad MFW-15 modified Dayton amp used correct?

Lots of good work here guys, Thanks

It was Tesseract's Dayton amp used. HuskerOmaha and I had already left with the modded amp.

I was surprised I picked the quad MFW-15 subs as my third choice. I really thought they sounded great in the blind test. The modded amp worked great with no shutdowns even at the -4 dB levels for Black Hawk Down and U571.
post #173 of 848
Archaea, thx for the reply, your summation clarifies the matter completely. You guys pretty much scientifically and fairly (blind testing) pushed all the subs to their individual peak, and a good $1250 sub set cannot hang with a great $3000-5000 sub set. Fair enough, well done sir.
post #174 of 848
I again like to congratulate all you guys for this outstanding effort. Blind testing is a huge undertaking.

I may have missed it, is it possible to let us know which FR curve corresponds to what subwoofer?


Most of the curves were relatively flat, but I couldn't help but notice that the orange curve drops almost 10dB from 40-30Hz. How may this have affected the raters' perceptions, especially for music? I'm just curious more than anything.

Again, great stuff guys.
post #175 of 848
Thread Starter 
The chickens have come to roost. My wife called me late last night - like 12:30AM. She's still in PA visiting family. She's like you know you put that on the internet right and I can find your posts and read them... She says WHAT DID YOU DO TO OUR HOUSE?

ut ohhhh


I said not that big a deal baby - just cracked some grout in the kitchen and it makes a little crunchy noise when you walk now. I'm sure you can guess how that conversation ensued. It's funny cause I didn't know my wife watches me on avs? This is the same wife that won't let me get rid of the old 27" Zennith CRT TV upstairs because she doesn't believe in overkill. She says it has to die first before we can get a new one. I said you do realize those CRT TV's last like 30 years!!!!! Great I'll finally get to have a flatscreen in my living room when I'm 60. Moreover she would prefer to watch a movie upstairs than watch it downstairs. Who knew she ever even went to AVS to check up on me. Guess she's trying to keep tabs on me during her little visit.

Jeff, darn't man - we should have auditioned the orbit shifter in the living room right next to the CRT TV. You could have made the convergence screw up and have rainbow colors all over the set and I could then upgrade it! Or heck just turned it up a bit and rattled it out of the TV stand.
post #176 of 848
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

The chickens have come to roost. My wife called me late last night - like 12:30AM. She's still in PA visiting family. She's like you know you put that on the internet right and I can find your posts and read them... She says WHAT DID YOU DO TO OUR HOUSE?

ut ohhhh


I said not that big a deal baby - just cracked some grout in the kitchen and it makes a little crunchy noise when you walk now. I'm sure you can guess how that conversation ensued. It's funny cause I didn't know my wife watches me on avs? This is the same wife that won't let me get rid of the old 27" Zennith CRT TV upstairs because she doesn't believe in overkill. She says it has to die first before we can get a new one. I said you do realize those CRT TV's last like 30 years!!!!! Great I'll have a flatscreen in my living room with I'm 60. Moreover she would prefer to watch a movie upstairs than watch it downstairs. Who knew she ever even went to AVS to check up on me. Guess she's trying to keep tabs on me during her little visit.

Jeff, darn't man - we should have auditioned the orbit shifter in the living room right next to the CRT TV. You could have made the convergence screw up and have rainbow colors all over the set and I could then upgrade it! Or heck just turned it up a bit and rattled it out of the TV stand.

Haha! Busted over the forums.

I'd suggest stacking the Captivators face up underneath the TV in the basement. Should be just enough to see the colors start to go. Could flip the polarity on one, put them back to back, and pump a sine wave into them from below and you might even get the picture to wobble nicely. Ask me how I know of such possibilities.
post #177 of 848
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

The chickens have come to roost. My wife called me late last night - like 12:30AM. She's still in PA visiting family. She's like you know you put that on the internet right and I can find your posts and read them... She says WHAT DID YOU DO TO OUR HOUSE?

ut ohhhh


I said not that big a deal baby - just cracked some grout in the kitchen and it makes a little crunchy noise when you walk now. I'm sure you can guess how that conversation ensued. It's funny cause I didn't know my wife watches me on avs? This is the same wife that won't let me get rid of the old 27" Zennith CRT TV upstairs because she doesn't believe in overkill. She says it has to die first before we can get a new one. I said you do realize those CRT TV's last like 30 years!!!!! Great I'll have a flatscreen in my living room with I'm 60. Moreover she would prefer to watch a movie upstairs than watch it downstairs. Who knew she ever even went to AVS to check up on me. Guess she's trying to keep tabs on me during her little visit.

Jeff, darn't man - we should have auditioned the orbit shifter in the living room right next to the CRT TV. You could have made the convergence screw up and have rainbow colors all over the set and I could then upgrade it! Or heck just turned it up a bit and rattled it out of the TV stand.

You sound like you have a wife like mine! I know they mean well but getting permission for something is getting old fast. I never hear"honey, can I go shopping to buy whatever?" Of course not, she just buys what she wants. I figure so can I so I just do and let her yell about it afterwards. I have cracked so many marble tiles upstairs it is not funny but I tell her I paid for the tiles anyways so what is the problem, I will pay to fix them! I completely understand what you will go through. Anyways, you need to come over my house one day and hear what the CHT subs can really do, I will have some Caps to compare if you wish.
post #178 of 848
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

The chickens have come to roost. My wife called me late last night - like 12:30AM. She's still in PA visiting family. She's like you know you put that on the internet right and I can find your posts and read them... She says WHAT DID YOU DO TO OUR HOUSE?

ut ohhhh


I said not that big a deal baby - just cracked some grout in the kitchen and it makes a little crunchy noise when you walk now. I'm sure you can guess how that conversation ensued. It's funny cause I didn't know my wife watches me on avs? This is the same wife that won't let me get rid of the old 27" Zennith CRT TV upstairs because she doesn't believe in overkill. She says it has to die first before we can get a new one. I said you do realize those CRT TV's last like 30 years!!!!! Great I'll have a flatscreen in my living room with I'm 60. Moreover she would prefer to watch a movie upstairs than watch it downstairs. Who knew she ever even went to AVS to check up on me. Guess she's trying to keep tabs on me during her little visit.

Jeff, darn't man - we should have auditioned the orbit shifter in the living room right next to the CRT TV. You could have made the convergence screw up and have rainbow colors all over the set and I could then upgrade it! Or heck just turned it up a bit and rattled it out of the TV stand.

Dear Mrs. Archaea,

If you are reading this, feel free to sign-up and post here. Sometimes it is nice to get other opinions about our hobby and your fresh female perspective would be just what we need around here. It would also give you an additional means of communication with your husband. WIN/WIN
post #179 of 848
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matman1970 View Post

Dear Mrs. Archaea,

If you are reading this, feel free to sign-up and post here. Sometimes it is nice to get other opinions about our hobby and your fresh female perspective would be just what we need around here. It would also give you an additional means of communication with your husband. WIN/WIN

^ THAT is a HUGE party foul!

Your man card is revoked immediately!

You realize you just did the equivalent of asking my wife to poker night.
post #180 of 848
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

Now that's counter intuitive. You choose the only equitable ported sub in a blind listening test against world class sealed subs all running on superior amps. And you are trying to rationalize that you like sealed better?

That's not how blind listening is supposed to work.

As to the subsonic frequencies... If a tree falls in the middle of the forrest...


Archaea,

I actually had the sealed subs ranked overall highest in both music and movies. You even put an S under my results to prove it. So in a blind test it apperas I prefer a sealed sub. I think my subjective impressions tell a better story as well.

Moreover, the SubM was the ONLY sub I gave a 3 to in the pleasure/fun for music category which I decided to treat as an overall category from the start. And it was also the ONLY sub I chose to give a good amount of 3's to in many of the movie clips. I really don't want to get into the whole ported vs sealed thing and I have already stated that it was hard to tell the difference.

I am positive that I would love the Ported Caps. It was the first sub of the day (after the unimpressive sub A) that made me happy I attended the meet.

So as far as my questionable decision on the Ported Cap vs the Sealed Cap (which is I think what you really have a problem) with I will try to explain myself.

There are two issues at play here. The first is that the results from my scoresheet on these two are very close. In fact, they line up right next to each other in both movies and music. So close that the results could easily go the other way if we repeated the test. With that in mind I have space problems with dual Ported Caps in my room. If I get the Sealed Caps I have many more placement options which could very likely result in an overall better sound for me and my room. Therefore, for me it is almost a no brainer to go with the more flexible option when the results are so close and could result in better performance.

The second issue is impossible for me to justify but I will freely admit that I am bothered by knowing that there is ultra low frequency content that I would be missing out on with the Ported Caps vs the Sealed Caps. I realize my blind testing did not necessarily support my fears but I am just trying to be honest with everyone.

Sealed Cap vs Ported Cap aside, my real top choice by a large margin if you read through my subjective impressions (which I think are much more telling) is the SubM HP so I am strongly considering going that route.

I do not want to turn this into a "jedi says he doesn't like the ported caps thing". Nothing could be further from the truth. Those subs get my whole hearted reccomendation. Simply a fantastic product and one of my top choices.

Hope that helps to clear my decision process up a bit. Regardless, you will have to come to listen to whatever I end up with in my room and maybe help me set them up properly. Lord knows I can use all the help I can get.
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AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers › Archaea's Kansas City Blind Subwoofer Shootout 2012