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Archaea's Kansas City Blind Subwoofer Shootout 2012 - Page 18

post #511 of 848
Thread Starter 
RMK. The subs were on the tile covered basement concerete slab in my house, thus anything they vibrated loose or broke was on the energy they output on cement without the compliment of a vibrating floor!!!!! I'd they were on a wooden floor or second story I can only imagine!!!

Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #512 of 848
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

RMK. The subs were on the tile covered basement concerete slab in my house, thus anything they vibrated loose or broke was on the energy they output on cement without the compliment of a vibrating floor!!!!! I'd they were on a wooden floor or second story I can only imagine!!!

Yes, my theater room is fine, the rest of the house is in danger!
post #513 of 848
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

RMK. The subs were on the tile covered basement concerete slab in my house, thus anything they vibrated loose or broke was on the energy they output on cement without the compliment of a vibrating floor!!!!! I'd they were on a wooden floor or second story I can only imagine!!!

Yeah, I may have over done it with the the OS's. I think they might be better suited to a concrete slab install. I am going to have to do this but at $80/ea for the Grammas and considering they are not the right size, I may DIY. I have a couple of the Great Grammas that I purchased for subs long gone that I use to decouple my Triple 12 mains that are sitting on top of the OS's. They are nicely built and seem to do the job but it would be really easy to build something similar to the exact right size for the OS's.

With all your collateral damage, I have managed to talk myself into a home preservation project .
post #514 of 848
carp,

Feel free to come by and borrow a SubMersive (and an Empire for that matter) anytime. I have the SubM (with the upgraded HP amp) that I bought from Randy sitting right next to my couch. I don't even use it most of the time, except as an end table.

Being able to A/B the Cap and SubM in your own room should help you decide which you truly like better.

doug.
post #515 of 848
BTW,

I sold my last 2 PB13-Ultras (with the Bash amp) a few months ago. I just wanted to let everyone know that a SubM HP has at least 8dB more output across the entire spectrum than an Ultra (in my room anyways, which is even harder to drive than Archaea's).

I am eating crow right now (based upon comments I made > 1 year ago), but a SubM is a HUGE upgrade from a PB13-Ultra.

doug.
post #516 of 848
Sorry, not been on AVS for a long time...

One last thing, don't try to integrate a SubM with an Empire. Although the Empire is sealed, it cancels out the SubM's output below ~20Hz for some reason. Maybe because the Empire's amp's DSP is more characteristic of a ported sub???

I am still running them together, but I probably won't be much longer.
post #517 of 848
Thread Starter 
welcome back doug! - we missed you at the meet this last go round. Hope all is well with you and the family!
post #518 of 848
Hey Counsil!

Wow, thanks for the offer!! I will take you up on that for sure.

I'll send you a PM.
post #519 of 848
Quote:
Originally Posted by counsil View Post

. I don't even use it most of the time, except as an end table. .

This, sir, is truly blasphemous, and you should be banned for life.
post #520 of 848
Quote:
Originally Posted by ratm View Post

This, sir, is truly blasphemous, and you should be banned for life.

I know. It's pathetic. Once I found out that my Empires were cancelling out the low end of my SubMersives I gave up on integrating all my subs for the time being. I'll get REW back out and figure this thing out at some point.

I responded to your PM though. Does that earn me the right to come back?
post #521 of 848
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

Hey Counsil!

Wow, thanks for the offer!! I will take you up on that for sure.

I'll send you a PM.

I responded to your PM. I'm sure a lot of folks will be interested in your comparison of a SubM and Cap.

Feel free to keep it for awhile. No rush.
post #522 of 848
Amazing, thanks Counsil. Made my day..
post #523 of 848
Quote:
Originally Posted by counsil View Post

carp,

Feel free to come by and borrow a SubMersive (and an Empire for that matter) anytime. I have the SubM (with the upgraded HP amp) that I bought from Randy sitting right next to my couch. I don't even use it most of the time, except as an end table.

Being able to A/B the Cap and SubM in your own room should help you decide which you truly like better.

doug.


doug,

Ever considered moving to Central FL?


nick.
post #524 of 848
Quote:
Originally Posted by counsil View Post

Sorry, not been on AVS for a long time...

One last thing, don't try to integrate a SubM with an Empire. Although the Empire is sealed, it cancels out the SubM's output below ~20Hz for some reason. Maybe because the Empire's amp's DSP is more characteristic of a ported sub???

I am still running them together, but I probably won't be much longer.

They shouldn't cancel at lower frequencies only since neither is ported and there is no phase shift.
REW should show you what's going on.
Good luck.
Tim
post #525 of 848
Quote:
Originally Posted by counsil View Post

Sorry, not been on AVS for a long time...

One last thing, don't try to integrate a SubM with an Empire. Although the Empire is sealed, it cancels out the SubM's output below ~20Hz for some reason. Maybe because the Empire's amp's DSP is more characteristic of a ported sub???

I am still running them together, but I probably won't be much longer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by capecodorthopod View Post

They shouldn't cancel at lower frequencies only since neither is ported and there is no phase shift.
REW should show you what's going on.
Good luck.
Tim

Doug is correct here. While in theory this should work fine with different sealed subwoofers, the implementation is everything. A 2nd order high pass filter as is used in the Epik amps creates the same phase shift observed in a ported sub, which means you are likely to have some cancellation around the low corner of the high passed sub.

That said, in some rooms you can occasionally see two such locations (front/rear) interact in this manner, but this is more often when the room is fairly irregular. If one of the SubMersives in the same location as the Empire's doesn't cancel, then you know it's due to the phase differences in the sub behavior.
post #526 of 848
Quote:
Originally Posted by capecodorthopod View Post

They shouldn't cancel at lower frequencies only since neither is ported and there is no phase shift.
REW should show you what's going on.
Good luck.
Tim

Actually you would get some cancellation because the slope of the rolloffs are so different between the two subs. The Submersive exhibits a classic unfiltered 12db/octave rolloff while the Empire's filtered rolloff is much sharper, somewhere around 30db/octave. Different rolloffs have different phase shifts.




Edit: Seaton beat my ass to the punch!
LL
post #527 of 848
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post

Doug is correct here. While in theory this should work fine with different sealed subwoofers, the implementation is everything. A 2nd order high pass filter as is used in the Epik amps creates the same phase shift observed in a ported sub, which means you are likely to have some cancellation around the low corner of the high passed sub.

That said, in some rooms you can occasionally see two such locations (front/rear) interact in this manner, but this is more often when the room is fairly irregular. If one of the SubMersives in the same location as the Empire's doesn't cancel, then you know it's due to the phase differences in the sub behavior.

Thanks Mark. I'll add that to the list of things to do the next time I re-calibrate my system.
post #528 of 848
Quote:
Originally Posted by _Avarice_ View Post

doug,

Ever considered moving to Central FL?


nick.

Actually yes. I have a sister that lives in Pensacola and I really like the area.
post #529 of 848
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

welcome back doug! - we missed you at the meet this last go round. Hope all is well with you and the family!

Yeah I hated missing this GTG.

I have read over most of this thread, but does this about sum it up?

Basically no one can tell the difference between sealed and ported subs, and right now Seaton and JTR make the best subs for the price.
post #530 of 848
Thread Starter 
^ Pretty much pegs it!

People have preferences, but they don't necessarily seem to be on distinct ported vs sealed line.
post #531 of 848
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post

Doug is correct here. While in theory this should work fine with different sealed subwoofers, the implementation is everything. A 2nd order high pass filter as is used in the Epik amps creates the same phase shift observed in a ported sub, which means you are likely to have some cancellation around the low corner of the high passed sub.

That said, in some rooms you can occasionally see two such locations (front/rear) interact in this manner, but this is more often when the room is fairly irregular. If one of the SubMersives in the same location as the Empire's doesn't cancel, then you know it's due to the phase differences in the sub behavior.

Does this mean that the Empire will be a good match for a ported sub?
post #532 of 848
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

Does this mean that the Empire will be a good match for a ported sub?

Not all ported subs are created equal, but yes, I had no troubles whatsoever integrating my Empires with my SVS PB13-Ultras.

YMMV.
post #533 of 848
carp came by and picked up a SubM.
post #534 of 848
I'll start a thread soon, so far I'm LOVING it for music. Damn.
post #535 of 848
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

I'll start a thread soon, so far I'm LOVING it for music. Damn.

Okay, Okay. I'll take your two cap pros for..........$2k?
post #536 of 848
If I didn't already buy a SubM, I would be chomping at the bits to buy carps 2 caps he may no longer want
post #537 of 848
Thread Starter 
let me be the first to say


"called it"

post #538 of 848
Hmmm.... not wowing me as much as the dual Caps for movie clips (Die Hard 4, Lord of the Rings). The family is getting ready to watch Secretariat. Not sure if there is a ton of LFE in that, but I'm going to try out the Submersive on that too.
post #539 of 848
Quote:
Originally Posted by HuskerOmaha View Post

Okay, Okay. I'll take your two cap pros for..........$2k?

Not pro's Greg, get it straight. I have the pretty boy non-pro versions.
post #540 of 848
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post


Not pro's Greg, get it straight. I have the pretty boy non-pro versions.

hmmmmm $1959 then.
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AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers › Archaea's Kansas City Blind Subwoofer Shootout 2012