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HSU STF 2 - Disappointed please help... (Pics Included!)

post #1 of 31
1/15/12 at 1:19am
Thread Starter 
Hi,

I went with this package -

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...y52cSYOUBkIc8g

and added the HSU STF2

The room is about 20x12 and 9 feet tall. The whole apartment is about 700 square feet.

I have the subwoofer halfway up.

What I am using the sub for is listening to music. I have the music streaming through apple TV from my iPhone and really think that the bass isn't what I was hoping for. I have the subwoofer in the corner in the front left corner next to the TV and when you stand about 10 feet to the right of it still near the front of the room the bass is awesome. But when I move out more into the middle or so it's crappy again.

Also, there is a huge balcony outside which is 15 feet to the right of the corner and when out on the balcony the subwoofer again sounds great and extra loud, but in the main middle of the room is seriously lacking.

If I turn the volume on the subwoofer past half then it just sounds boomy and I can tell its bottoming out and doesn't sound good or hit at all.

I also bought the subdude HD and have that underneath.

For me, 400$ for a sub was around the best that I could afford so I am not really too happy with my purchase. Can you guys perhaps help me figure out a better place to put it or change settings?

I am listening to hip hop and rap BTW. For example, IDK what kind of subwoofer my neighbor has but I can hear it in my apartment through the walls. If I have mine as loud as I can without it booming out and go stand in the hall I can barely hear it standing right by my door. Now, I am not trying to be annoying to the neighbors but I want or thought it would be louder. I used to have a Alpine type X 15 inch with a 1000 watt amp, now THAT was loud...

Thanks i really appreciate it any and all help!

PICS (excuse the mess and large pics):





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post #2 of 31
1/15/12 at 5:34am
People in this forum like the BIC F12 at ~$200, the BIC PL-200 at <$300, and typically the Hsu STF-2 at <$400. Each time individuals have upgraded the indicated that the new sub was better than their previous.

If you were running the Alpine sub, I assume it was in a car. That is a noncomparable situation to a home subwoofer.

Your room could conceivably approach 5000 cu. ft. which is too big for that subwoofer except in a near-field application (pointed directly towards you) and for moderate-level music.

You can improve the amount of sound by putting the subwoofer in a corner. You get reinforcement from the two additional boundaries. You may need to rotate the sub in increments of 45 degrees until it sounds best or try it in other corners. You can always get boominess with any sub if you have it located in a less-than-ideal location.

You could consider upgrading to the Hsu VTF3.4 or comparable subs that might be adequate for your relatively large listening area. I suspect you would need accommodating neighbors.
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post #3 of 31
1/15/12 at 5:52am
Do try the sub crawl before upgrading to any other sub. Place the sub on the couch (center, main listening area), and go around the room to find out which spot has the best bass. Then place the sub there.

If the room acoustics are bad, no sub will sound good - no matter how expensive or powerful it is.
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post #4 of 31
1/15/12 at 5:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by .peace. View Post

Do try the sub crawl before upgrading to any other sub. Place the sub on the couch (center, main listening area), and go around the room to find out which spot has the best bass. Then place the sub there.

If the room acoustics are bad, no sub will sound good - no matter how expensive or powerful it is.

This.

Also you are sitting in a null, that's why you can walk around to different parts and have it sound great then sound meh in your listening area. Room treatment would help too if you can't get the sound you are looking for in your LP after doing the sub crawl.
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post #5 of 31
1/15/12 at 6:11am
The middle of the room will always be a bass null for subs that can't adequately pressurize the entire space. The STF2 isn't a output monster, but for $400 you can't get a output monster unless you buy a used pro-audio sub, and they don't have much bass below 40 hz. As was suggested above, I would try near-field placement. Next to that, I would either return the unit and get something better, or save up and buy another one. Two subs placed in different ends of the room go a long way towards defeating bass nulls.

By the way, I really don't think you are bottoming out the sub. You would hear a clanging noise like a hammer striking something. You really don't want to do that, but it isn't easy to get past the limiter on the sub. I was only ever able to get my STF2 to bottom out once, and that was because I had it set up in a weird configuration. I doubt you are pushing the sub anywhere near as hard as I pushed it when that happened.
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post #6 of 31
1/15/12 at 7:24am
I have the HSU Stf-2 in a room larger than yours and it provides enough bass to shake my whole house. I am not a true bass head like some people so I am sure opinions differ. You bought an Onkyo receiver. Did you run the Audyssey setup? Are your speakers all set to small and what did it set the crossover to? What level did it set the sub to? Turning the knob on the sub should be the last thing you should do. I set mine at 5 and Audyssey set my level to -2.5. I believe you have a combination of room placement issues combined with improper settings. Just a starting point to check.
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post #7 of 31
1/15/12 at 8:42am
Seems to be that you wanted a sub that has a lot of output for the money. While the STF-2 is a great music sub, It may not have the output you are looking for unless you place it nearfield. HSU's more expensive offerings would make you happy but if you are stuck at $400, the Cadence CSX-12 Mk2 will have a bit more output. It won't be quite as clean as the HSU, but will still sound great with hip-hop and play quite loud.

http://www.cadencehometheaterspeaker...2&idproduct=16

Another option would be to save up and add a second STF-2 later on
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post #8 of 31
1/15/12 at 8:51am
Like Shady said, placement is key. I wish I had dollar for every time somebody bought a new sub (any sub) and didn't like the bass due to poor placement. That doesn't mean that you can't under buy for the size of your room (which I don't think you did). Of course realistic expectations can play a part as well.

Play with your placement, also if your seating is in the middle of room, that won't do you any favours either.
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post #9 of 31
1/15/12 at 8:57am
Guys, I don't really think his room is that overly large from the pics. It also shows he is running towers. I think before we suggest new subs, we should make sure he has it setup properly. If Audyssey set the mains to full range and large with a lower crossover, and he did not change it, his bass could be severely lacking. Placement correct or not, I think that Hsu even though small should rock that room. You may be correct, but I always check setup before I blame the product. I had dual BIC F12's and switched to the Hsu and the output was nearly identical with the Hsu being much more musical instead of a one note box. Minor changes in my crossover from 60 to 80 had a large impact on the output of the Hsu. Audyssey also had a tendency to set the sub level low. I always have to go in and up my sub level +3 to +5 for my preference depending on the music source.
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post #10 of 31
1/15/12 at 9:15am
Set mains to "small" and do a sub crawl. I also have a larger apartment and my STF-2 is in a larger room, it has no issues filling that space.
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post #11 of 31
1/15/12 at 9:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjsiv View Post

Guys, I don't really think his room is that overly large from the pics. It also shows he is running towers. I think before we suggest new subs, we should make sure he has it setup properly. . . .

Agreed. Focus on optimizing your configuration first.

For instance,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew1204 View Post

If I turn the volume on the subwoofer past half then it just sounds boomy and I can tell its bottoming out and doesn't sound good or hit at all.

That's probably because you are turning your gain (volume) up too high on the back of the sub. If your receiver has room correction, try setting the gain about 10 o'clock and run the room correction. If the receiver ends up with a subwoofer trim/channel level much less than -3db or greater than +3db, adjust the gain up or down appropriately on the sub and rerun the room correction software. Repeat as necessary until you end up in that range.. Then if you feel like you need more bass, bump up the channel level on the receiver 2 or 3 db, not the gain on the back of the sub. If the receiver you have doesn't have room correction, set the sub channel at zero on the receiver and adjust the gain on the sub for best sound.

That being said, keep in mind that the STF-2 is a clean, accurate sounding 10" sub. If your neighbor has a cheap, boomy 12" sub, it may sound louder because it's a one note wonder that produces a lot of distortion when producing that volume.
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post #12 of 31
1/15/12 at 12:13pm
Thread Starter 
Thank you guys so much for your help...

Okay, so I ran Audyssey and here are the settings it gave me:





I have the crossover on the sub set to 90 degrees, phase at 0, and volume around 11 oclock.

Now with these settings I have to have my volume on the receiver turned up really loud to hear TV...

Thanks again for your help.
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post #13 of 31
1/15/12 at 12:21pm
Well I will point out one problem. Your streaming really low quality of music. I think that could be a big part...
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post #14 of 31
1/15/12 at 12:32pm
Thread Starter 
I just put the sub in the corner in the front right of the room, opposite corner. Now the subwoofer sounds a TON better and fills the room... WEIRD. Now on the balcony though it doesnt sound as loud... but I'd rather fill the room... why is my sub at -15 when I have the volume at around 11 oclock? Before it sounded good again though I had to manually adjust the receiver and put the sub at -3 like cel4145 recommended...
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post #15 of 31
1/15/12 at 1:08pm
Try putting the sub between the two sofas,i bet you it'll sound better. Most folks here either have it behind the sofa or in between. On the side note,the ports on the sub require at lease 3" away from the back wall if i remember correctly.
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post #16 of 31
1/15/12 at 1:12pm
All the eq systems built into receivers seem to set the sub volume really low.

You could pick up a SPL meter at radio shack and calibrate the bass level with that.
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post #17 of 31
1/15/12 at 1:19pm
The volume on the sub is too high. It is dropping the channel level to compensate. Also the crossover is too low. Turn down the volune on the sub a little. Set the crossover all the way up on the sub and rerun audyssey. Setting on receiver should be small for speaker size, receiver crossover at 80hz and sub level should be higher than -15. Based off of your screenshots the receiver setup is off and screwing up your bass response.
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post #18 of 31
1/15/12 at 1:20pm
A few things:

Audssey set your crossover to 50Hz. This means that the sub is only really engaging for sounds 50Hz and lower. Raise this value to 80Hz. You may want to change this later, but until you've got the response you want, leave it around there.

I don't remember--does the STF-2 have a Bypass setting for its crossover? You want to bypass the sub's internal crossover. I don't remember whether setting the crossover dial's value to its maximum automatically does this.

Your sub is running too hot. When Audyssey sets a negative or positive gain so near the limits of your receiver's gain control, it means that the sub is set, on its own gain control, either way too loud or way too quiet. When Audyssey sets the receiver sub gain to a value that's strongly negative, the sub is gained up way too loud.

As shadyJ said, you are probably never going to get good bass response in your room, with the main listening position so close to the middle of the room. I think that you would need to run a larger, more powerful sub in the nearfield (within a couple of feet of the main listening position) to get the bass impact you are probably looking for. Otherwise, you'd have to move the couch closer to one of the walls. Speaking of which, I bet the couch that's 90 degrees to the speakers--the one against the wall--gets pretty nifty bass response. Am I right?
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post #19 of 31
1/15/12 at 1:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjsiv View Post

The volume on the sub is too high. It is dropping the channel level to compensate. Also the crossover is too low. Turn down the volune on the sub a little. Set the crossover all the way up on the sub and rerun audyssey. Setting on receiver should be small for speaker size, receiver crossover at 80hz and sub level should be higher than -15.

By ONE MINUTE
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post #20 of 31
1/15/12 at 2:39pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks guys for your help. almost 100% better... I set the gain down on the sub to around 9 o'clock or so and then audyssey set the sub at -5. I then adjusted the sub on receiver to around -2 instead of using the gain nob... MUCH better than using the volume nob. Also turned crossover on the receiver to 80.

The only thing that I noticed now is that music sounds as if the treble is really high... After audyssey adjusted the front and right and center and left to something like -8,-7 and -5 respectively music sounds like the treble is high.

The receiver I have (onkyo NR509) has a "music optimizer" button and then I can adjust the tone for the bass and treble with that, is that what I should be doing to fix the really high treble sound? It sounds like the voices are over powering the music basically...

EDIT: There is one "null" point in the room which is near the kitchen table if null means the bass is bad in about a 4 foot square area. How do I add a second sub if there is one output on the receiver for a sub plugin? The sub before in the corner on the right side of the TV sounded good in that area so perhaps by adding a second it will sound good everywhere...
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post #21 of 31
1/15/12 at 2:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew1204 View Post

EDIT: There is one "null" point in the room which is near the kitchen table if null means the bass is bad in about a 4 foot square area. How do I add a second sub if there is one output on the receiver for a sub plugin? The sub before in the corner on the right side of the TV sounded good in that area so perhaps by adding a second it will sound good everywhere...

Yep. Nulls will happen. If you want a second sub, you just need a splitter to connect the sub line out on the receiver to both. Know that the best practice is to use the same model sub in a dual sub configuration, although people do have success integrating two different subs in their system. The former makes it easier and always works well.
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post #22 of 31
1/15/12 at 3:10pm
IMO, you are not going to get the entire room filled perfectly with bass. I optimize my setup for one or two main positions. If it sounds good where you normally watch TV and maybe one or two guest seats, then go with it. You have to ask yourself if it's worth the extra cost of another sub to even out the room in one 4 foot area. Even with a more powerful sub, the room will have null points. The next step would be room treatments.

To even out the treble you are gonna have to bust out the onkyo manual and do some reading. The hardest part is done. Now it's just tweaking to your preference.
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post #23 of 31
1/17/12 at 11:29am
Hey Guys,

Op thanks for opening the thread, I find my STF-2 is not giving me that punch in the chest and I'm getting a few NULL spots. However the pictures on the walls and floors shake throughout my 2 floors house.
I'm sure just like in OP's situation it is my setup. When time allows I'll do a sub crawling and run another Audssey setup)

At the moment sub is right in the corner.. (old picture without sub). Beside HSU sub I do have Energy C-500s speakers, matching C-C100 center and Marantz 5005 avr.

I have a quick question:

For down firing sub, is it recommend to put some rag or something underneath? I have laminate flooring in my basement.

Thanks
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post #24 of 31
1/17/12 at 7:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by clark17 View Post

Hey Guys,

Op thanks for opening the thread, I find my STF-2 is not giving me that punch in the chest and I'm getting a few NULL spots. However the pictures on the walls and floors shake throughout my 2 floors house.
I'm sure just like in OP's situation it is my setup. When time allows I'll do a sub crawling and run another Audssey setup)

At the moment sub is right in the corner.. (old picture without sub). Beside HSU sub I do have Energy C-500s speakers, matching C-C100 center and Marantz 5005 avr.

I have a quick question:

For down firing sub, is it recommend to put some rag or something underneath? I have laminate flooring in my basement.

Thanks

Some people use Aurelex subdudes to absorb the mechanical energy of the sub cabinet's vibrations, which is supposed to help reduce vibrations of surrounding surfaces. The actual usefulness of this product is debatable, in my opinion, but some people swear by it.

As has been said, the STF2 isn't an output monster, and that "punch in the chest" feel doesn't happen at its price point, unless you are in a small room. As far as I am concerned, I think the STF1/STF2/VTF1 subs are for small rooms, or for situations where the seating is against the wall in a medium sized room. Its a good sub though, and can't really be beat at its price point, unless you find a good deal on a used sub.
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post #25 of 31
1/18/12 at 6:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

Some people use Aurelex subdudes to absorb the mechanical energy of the sub cabinet's vibrations, which is supposed to help reduce vibrations of surrounding surfaces. The actual usefulness of this product is debatable, in my opinion, but some people swear by it.

As has been said, the STF2 isn't an output monster, and that "punch in the chest" feel doesn't happen at its price point, unless you are in a small room. As far as I am concerned, I think the STF1/STF2/VTF1 subs are for small rooms, or for situations where the seating is against the wall in a medium sized room. Its a good sub though, and can't really be beat at its price point, unless you find a good deal on a used sub.

Thank you for your feedback...

It is a very nice SUB, and like I said I need to spend some time to tune it properly. I'll look into maybe building my own Subdude... Since I have to build stand for center speaker. I might build something for my front towers at the same time.

Can someone please send me steps on how to do "easy" sub crawling setup?

OP I'm sorry for jumping into your thread with my questions...
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post #26 of 31
1/18/12 at 9:23pm
Crawling for Bass - Subwoofer Placement
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post #27 of 31
1/19/12 at 5:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

Crawling for Bass - Subwoofer Placement

Thanks so much
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post #28 of 31
8/9/12 at 7:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post


Some people use Aurelex subdudes to absorb the mechanical energy of the sub cabinet's vibrations, which is supposed to help reduce vibrations of surrounding surfaces. The actual usefulness of this product is debatable, in my opinion, but some people swear by it.


As has been said, the STF2 isn't an output monster, and that "punch in the chest" feel doesn't happen at its price point, unless you are in a small room. As far as I am concerned, I think the STF1/STF2/VTF1 subs are for small rooms, or for situations where the seating is against the wall in a medium sized room. Its a good sub though, and can't really be beat at its price point, unless you find a good deal on a used sub.

What is the cheapest (but still good quality) punch in the chest sub you know of?
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post #29 of 31
8/9/12 at 7:31pm
By punch in the chest, I will take it to mean 50 hz plus range. Getting that punch in the chest is more than just a matter of getting a sub, it also has a lot to do with placement and room size. If you want a punch in the chest, place your sub close by and don't put it in a huge room. One sub that looks good for this effect and isn't hugely expensive is the Premier Acoustics PA-150. You might be able to get a nice punchy feel from a less powerful sub if you are in a small room and sitting near a room surface, so check out the budget sub thread for that.
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post #30 of 31
8/9/12 at 7:50pm
Cheap? 2 hsu vtf 2mk 4s or one hsu vtf 15h. If you wanna get punched hard in the chest, get a submersive or submersive HP.

butter and jelly please.
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