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The Great Sub Indecision - 7 On My List!!

post #1 of 66
1/16/12 at 10:37am
Thread Starter 
Ave,

So i'm looking to complete my home theater setup; last piece of the puzzle left is the Subwoofer, and I'm so torn that I can't decide.

I wanted to spend $550, but I can stretch my budget to $800 (No more!!) if the gain vs. cost really calls for it.

This is 90% Movies -- 10% Gaming -- 0% Music.

Let me also clarify; I'm not an audiophile; however, I'm not buying Subs again & again so I would like to invest in a good one right off the bat.

I know a lot of people are going to ask me - What's the room size. The reason I don't want to give a room size is because it could be very misleading. Right now my HT setup is going to be in a fairly decent sized family room that opens up into the Kitchen. However, at some point, wife & I want to expand & build a dedicated Home Theater room. Nothing too extragavant; just comfortable enough to fit a projector that does 150" or so and has enough room for all the speakers. That said ... the current setup would be somewhat temporary. But it could be 6 months; year; more -- I don't know, before we can expand. So I don't really want to go by the current room size.

I do have carpeting; and intend to have that in the HT Room also.

Here's where it heats up.

Following is a chart of the 7 Subs I have narrowed down to; with "Shipped" prices for me.



The Outlaw LFM-1 Plus is currently at the top of my list because it seems to be a perfect balance of Cost & Performance. I think one of the biggest questions I have is ... is the $120 difference between the Ex & Plus worth it?? In other words, should I spend the extra $120 for the Ex? Will I see a big gain doing so?

Obviously, all these Subs are really good subs with good reviews -- and I don't think I could go wrong getting any of these -- and that's exactly what makes this an even harder decision. I just can't decide which one to put my money on.

I welcome & appreciate any advice/suggestions.

Thanks!!
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post #2 of 66
1/16/12 at 10:58am
I've never read a comment where an EX owner said something like, "My only regret is not spending $120 less to get the Plus. Massive output and pride of ownership aren't all they're cracked up to be."

Same for the Hsu VTF-3 instead of the VTF-2 and the Rythmik F15 instead of the F12. It's a little different with SVSound I think because the Plus is hugely more expensive than the NSD.

I think that if you have any doubts at all about the abilities of the sub you're thinking of buying, save more money until you can afford the best one you can buy and still respect yourself/have a marriage/avoid loan default.
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post #3 of 66
1/16/12 at 11:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaviorMachine View Post

I've never read a comment where an EX owner said something like, "My only regret is not spending $120 less to get the Plus. Massive output and pride of ownership aren't all they're cracked up to be."

Same for the Hsu VTF-3 instead of the VTF-2 and the Rythmik F15 instead of the F12. It's a little different with SVSound I think because the Plus is hugely more expensive than the NSD.

I think that if you have any doubts at all about the abilities of the sub you're thinking of buying, save more money until you can afford the best one you can buy and still respect yourself/have a marriage/avoid loan default.

I concur^I was in the same boat awhile ago when I ordered my EX. Was originally going to buy a LAVA LSP12 but opted for a LFM plus. Had to look away from the screen when I placed the order for the EX lol. Now I have two no regrets. Do you plan on ever doing a .2 setup? Might be easier to do 2 pluses than trying to afford to EXs.

Dont forget though the plus and ex are pretty similar! Same driver different enclosure. Cant go wrong with either one


*cueing Charlie..*
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post #4 of 66
1/16/12 at 12:23pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaviorMachine View Post

I've never read a comment where an EX owner said something like, "My only regret is not spending $120 less to get the Plus. Massive output and pride of ownership aren't all they're cracked up to be."

You cracked me up!! I was falling off my chair reading that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pokekevin View Post

I concur^I was in the same boat awhile ago when I ordered my EX. Was originally going to buy a LAVA LSP12 but opted for a LFM plus. Had to look away from the screen when I placed the order for the EX lol. Now I have two no regrets. Do you plan on ever doing a .2 setup? Might be easier to do 2 pluses than trying to afford to EXs.

That's a very interesting point you raised! To answer your question - YES - I absolutely intend to go .2 at some point. However - I have no set time limit to do that. So the way I figured it - even if I got the EX right now; I can wait for the next BIG SALE at Outlaw, whether it comes 6 months down the road or an year, to grab the 2nd EX. OR, I could wait for the EX to show up in B-Stock @ $574 shipped. Either way, since there will be no rush for the 2nd Sub, I can take my time.

That said - I think where I loose clarity is, do I need to spend $700+ to get a Subwoofer or will be somewhat 'equally' happy having bought a $550 Sub.

My wife loves big speakers -- if she sees a bigger dimension Sub in the store, she'll want us to pick that up regardless of whether it crossed my $800 dead-stop limit! I, on the other hand, am a little more fussy about this. I'm always doing the cost vs. performance analysis and I always like to understand why I'm paying an x amount for the product. I know she'll be extremely happy with the EX because it does boast bigger HXWXD dimensions then others; but for me the actual price tag & frequency response is important.

Thanks!
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post #5 of 66
1/16/12 at 12:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mickey79 View Post

I wanted to spend $550, but I can stretch my budget to $800 (No more!!) if the gain vs. cost really calls for it.

Stretch it to $900 and you could be running dual LFM-1 Plus subs. How could your wife NOT be impressed by that?!
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post #6 of 66
1/16/12 at 12:45pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post

Stretch it to $900 and you could be running dual LFM-1 Plus subs. How could your wife NOT be impressed by that?!

Well - I Agree - but the thing of it is, I really didn't want to hit $800 (Unless I had extra-ordinary cause). The $550 became $650 and the $650 became $750 mainly due to Outlaw's EX ... and that eventually settled at $800. If I keep going that way, I'll always be able to add another $100 & score a bigger/better/bang.

I do intend to do dual Subs; and no doubts, dual LFM-1 Plus's are at the top of my sheet. But I think I'd like to just splurge around the $650 mark (or less) and get the single one going for now.

I'm toying between the EX & the Plus and while everything about the EX screams "Get Me" ... I think I'm just wondering I could run Dual Plus' instead and never really know the difference in terms of sound, and saved some money at the same time.

Wish there really weren't that many good subs.
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post #7 of 66
1/16/12 at 12:52pm
Some people mate the EX with a Plus in a dual sub configuration where the Plus is put nearfield. You could start with one of the other and still have that option.
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post #8 of 66
1/16/12 at 12:58pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Some people mate the EX with a Plus in a dual sub configuration where the Plus is put nearfield. You could start with one of the other and still have that option.

Believe it or not -- You very likely resolved this entire puzzle. I did not know that!! That very well might be the decisive factor in this whole race.

If that's the case -- I will totally jump in with either the Plus or the EX now and pick up whichever one goes on sale later. I'm actually holding off my purchase for at least a few days to see one of 2 things, either a) The EX/Plus goes on sale, or b) The EX/Plus is available in B-Stock.

It's interesting no one has really called for any sub other then Outlaw. That also is beginning to solidify my view of Outlaw.

Thanks man -- I appreciate it.
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post #9 of 66
1/16/12 at 1:10pm
The EX will have stronger deep bass than the Plus, but that is essentially its only advantage. For those on a tighter budget, the Plus will easily be the best value. Two will make for a terrific system, and I don't think you will miss the extra extension of the EX too much.
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post #10 of 66
1/16/12 at 1:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Some people mate the EX with a Plus in a dual sub configuration where the Plus is put nearfield. You could start with one of the other and still have that option.

One advantage of the EX is the ability to run it with one port plugged and still have a rising low frequency response below 20Hz.

If I was going to run an EX and a Plus, I would place the EX nearfield and run it with one port plugged. In that mode, the EX doesn't need boundary reinforcement. So, one could get the best of the EX placed nearfield and use the Plus where it sounds best. Possibly even corner placement.

The Audioholics review of the Plus doesn't show the rising frequency response of the EX and even mentions missing some notes below 22 Hz.
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post #11 of 66
1/17/12 at 8:48am
Thread Starter 
Guys, I have 2 Questions.

Firstly, I've been reading a bit on 'Direct Servo' which is offered by Rythmik in it's FV12 (Which is on my list). In reading through the text, it sounds pretty good. I guess my question is - if Direct Servo is that good - why is it that not that many people recommend FV12 (Or any other Direct Servo Sub) over subs like Outlaw, HSU ... which seem to be to the King of under $800 subs?? What is the "real world" difference? What advantage does FV12 with it's Direct Servo have over say EX, Plus or VTF's? Am I missing something?

Secondly, my wife was in our local Fry's the other day & she saw a Velodyne DEQ-15R and she was very impressed by it. I don't know too much about this brand or sub. It's actually a bit more expensive then EX. Is this a good sub - or at least one to consider?

Thanks!!
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post #12 of 66
1/17/12 at 9:36am
The FV12 has only been out a year while the others have been around much longer, so I suspect that has something to do with the relative lack of info.

Just my guess but I suspect it is geared towards someone who uses their system for both music and movies and wants ported output with better sound quality than what is typical with mid priced ported offerings. People who buy Rythmik tend to place SQ above all and often go to their more expensive sealed subs, which from what I understand have a better driver than the FV12.

For someone who's 0% music I would try to get the most extension and output for my $ and not worry about SQ so much. The Velo you're looking at rolls off rather high (30hz or higher I think based on at least one independent measurement) and is not something I would consider personally.
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post #13 of 66
1/17/12 at 9:40am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dpc716 View Post

The FV12 has only been out a year while the others have been around much longer, so I suspect that has something to do with the relative lack of info.

Just my guess but I suspect it is geared towards someone who uses their system for both music and movies and wants ported output with better sound quality than what is typical with mid priced ported offerings. People who buy Rythmik tend to place SQ above all and often go to their more expensive sealed subs, which from what I understand have a better driver than the FV12.

For someone who's 0% music I would try to get the most extension and output for my $ and not worry about SQ so much. The Velo you're looking at rolls off rather high (30hz or higher I think based on at least one independent measurement) and is not something I would consider personally.

Thanks for the response! In my personal I'm finding things quite similar to what you just pointed out. "Music" seems to be quite dominant for the FV12 usage and most people with 0% or less music needs are staying away from Direct Servo and are geared more towards traditional heavy powered subs like Outlaw. Makes sense now. I think I'm going to stick with Outlaw.

Also thanks on Velodyne; I'll skip that one.

I'm pretty much looking for deals on either Plus or EX at this point; either retail deal or B-Stock. I have a little bit before I need to buy so I'll wait & see if I can score a deal on either.
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post #14 of 66
1/17/12 at 10:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mickey79 View Post

Thanks for the response! In my personal I'm finding things quite similar to what you just pointed out. "Music" seems to be quite dominant for the FV12 usage and most people with 0% or less music needs are staying away from Direct Servo and are geared more towards traditional heavy powered subs like Outlaw. Makes sense now. I think I'm going to stick with Outlaw.

Also thanks on Velodyne; I'll skip that one.

I'm pretty much looking for deals on either Plus or EX at this point; either retail deal or B-Stock. I have a little bit before I need to buy so I'll wait & see if I can score a deal on either.

What kind of media do plan on using in your system that has 0% music? This was a major part of my reason for choosing Rythmik.
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post #15 of 66
1/17/12 at 10:58am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by khoncrete View Post

What kind of media do plan on using in your system that has 0% music. This was a major part of my reason for choosing Rythmik.

Well - let's clarify this. Obviously any & every movie has a soundtrack which undobtedbly has "music" in it. But across my research here @ AVSForum reading countless threads, it was quite clear that members differentiate the "usage" with following three terms ...

Gaming (Which is basically console gaming)
Movies (Which is basically watching a movie; all music / soundtrack / effects / everything inclusive)
Music (Which is basically listening to Audio - as in CD's, etc.)

Of course, all 3 mediums have "music" ... games, movies & all. But for the sake of clarity & sanity, I found that most everyone differentiated their primary usage with the above. And that's what I did. I won't be listening to music as in music CD's, radio etc. The usage will be only Movies & Games.

Now -- coming back to the FV12 vs Others. Make no mistake, FV12 comes in greatly recommended & heavily appreciated ... however, most threads that I have read have recommended Subs like Outlaw & HSU over the FV12 if your primary usage is more so movies / gaming then listening to music. In some threads I found FV12 to be recommended higher then others if you're geared more towards Music (As in audio CD's, radio, etc.).

Again - this is not my personal determination - I have never owned an FV12 or Outlaw. I'm just going by what I'm seeing & reading here at AVS.

Hope this clarifies.
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post #16 of 66
1/17/12 at 12:41pm
Why wouldn't you want your audio, ht or music, to be produced more accurately?
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post #17 of 66
1/17/12 at 12:47pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DualMono View Post

Why wouldn't you want your audio, ht or music, to be produced more accurately?

I'm not sure I understand what you mean.
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post #18 of 66
1/17/12 at 3:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mickey79 View Post

My wife loves big speakers -- if she sees a bigger dimension Sub in the store, she'll want us to pick that up regardless of whether it crossed my $800 dead-stop limit! I, on the other hand, am a little more fussy about this. I'm always doing the cost vs. performance analysis and I always like to understand why I'm paying an x amount for the product. I know she'll be extremely happy with the EX because it does boast bigger HXWXD dimensions then others; but for me the actual price tag & frequency response is important.

So let me see if I understand this correctly; your wife wants the big expensive sub and you want the smaller more demure one?? Wow, talk about role-reversal!

You just coined a new term with that one my friend; HAF (Husband Acceptance Factor).
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post #19 of 66
1/17/12 at 3:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post


So let me see if I understand this correctly; your wife wants the big expensive sub and you want the smaller more demure one?? Wow, talk about role-reversal!

You just coined a new term with that one my friend; HAF (Husband Acceptance Factor).

Very odd situation ahah
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post #20 of 66
1/17/12 at 5:54pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post


So let me see if I understand this correctly; your wife wants the big expensive sub and you want the smaller more demure one?? Wow, talk about role-reversal!

You just coined a new term with that one my friend; HAF (Husband Acceptance Factor).

LOL.

Yeah well; it's not so much about me wanting the 'smaller' more 'demure' one -- it's just that I'm looking at the more technical side of the sub then my wife; and yes, I admit, I'm probably a little more stingy when it come to price with all this ht stuff n all!!

I know we're not buying the sub again n again; I want to make sure we get the best one our money can afford. I guess I want to make the right choice.
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post #21 of 66
1/17/12 at 6:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mickey79 View Post

Now -- coming back to the FV12 vs Others. Make no mistake, FV12 comes in greatly recommended & heavily appreciated ... however, most threads that I have read have recommended Subs like Outlaw & HSU over the FV12 if your primary usage is more so movies / gaming then listening to music. In some threads I found FV12 to be recommended higher then others if you're geared more towards Music (As in audio CD's, radio, etc.).

The way to understand this, too, is that they are all musical, and all good for HT. I believe that the differences are probably more minor than they are significant as to which is better for HT vs music. I listen to a good bit of music with my EX. It sounds very good to me, and I doubt if I could test the FV12 in my home that I would say, "I wish I hadn't bought the EX."

Meanwhile, there is an FV12 bandwagon going on right now. Very few people have purchased the FV12 and compared it to other ID subs. For whatever reason, people aren't mentioning the Epik Legend, even though there have been plenty of testimonials in the past that it is very good for music. That signifies that there is a "trendy" choice at the moment.
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post #22 of 66
1/17/12 at 7:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mickey79 View Post

LOL.

Yeah well; it's not so much about me wanting the 'smaller' more 'demure' one -- it's just that I'm looking at the more technical side of the sub then my wife; and yes, I admit, I'm probably a little more stingy when it come to price with all this ht stuff n all!!

I know we're not buying the sub again n again; I want to make sure we get the best one our money can afford. I guess I want to make the right choice.

If you are only going with one and sticking with it, I would get the best one you can. I would spend the extra money and go for the VTF3, LFM-1 EX, or PB12. From those I would pick the VTF3.
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post #23 of 66
1/17/12 at 8:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

The way to understand this, too, is that they are all musical, and all good for HT. I believe that the differences are probably more minor than they are significant as to which is better for HT vs music. I listen to a good bit of music with my EX. It sounds very good to me, and I doubt if I could test the FV12 in my home that I would say, "I wish I hadn't bought the EX."

Meanwhile, there is an FV12 bandwagon going on right now. Very few people have purchased the FV12 and compared it to other ID subs. For whatever reason, people aren't mentioning the Epik Legend, even though there have been plenty of testimonials in the past that it is very good for music. That signifies that there is a "trendy" choice at the moment.

Outlaw is the safe, conservative choice. Others like living on the edge with the hope of finding something better than the usual "same old thing". Rythmik has provided that option.
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post #24 of 66
1/17/12 at 9:23pm
I would add that the performance of the Outlaw, Hsu, and SVS subs are pretty well understood, and have been tested and measured thoroughly by third parties. The only Rythmik sub that has any third party testing that I know of is the FV15HP. If Rythmik will send more models of its subs out for testing, we can better understand how it fares against its competitors.
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post #25 of 66
1/18/12 at 10:11am
Thread Starter 
I've actually come to the point where I'm down to two ... Outlaw or Rythmik. When it comes to Rythmik, it's basically FV12 because I can't afford to drop $1K+ on the FV15. For Outlaw, it's either Plus or EX. Since I can also mix 'n match for the .2 config.

But before I get into that, some responses ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Meanwhile, there is an FV12 bandwagon going on right now. Very few people have purchased the FV12 and compared it to other ID subs.

I do agree with you that most likely the differences are more minor as opposed to significant. I haven't seen anyone recommend Epik Legend over choices like Outlaw & HSU, and in most cases, even Rythmik, and that's the only reason Legend is somewhat shelved. Epik Empire is a different story! But definitely beyond my budget.

And I also agree that there is certainly a sort of Direct Servo, essentially Rythmik, "movement" going on. Those who've purchased it can't state 1 reason they would prefer Outlaw/HSU or any other traditional sub over it. And those who haven't definitely are attracted ... including me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

If you are only going with one and sticking with it, I would get the best one you can. I would spend the extra money and go for the VTF3, LFM-1 EX, or PB12. From those I would pick the VTF3.

I was surprised you suggested VTF3 over EX. Any reason?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DualMono View Post

Outlaw is the safe, conservative choice. Others like living on the edge with the hope of finding something better than the usual "same old thing". Rythmik has provided that option.

+1 ... I couldn't agree with you more. And I probably fall in that "safe, conservative choice" myself. Although I'm still not 100% decided and I'm definitely enticed by Direct Servo (FV12) ... I have to say that this is a big move up for me. I'm going from a $400 5.1 HTiB to a proper Reciever/Speaker 7.1 setup and I'm craving that floor-rumbling bass ... and I think I will be pretty happy with Outlaw.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

I would add that the performance of the Outlaw, Hsu, and SVS subs are pretty well understood, and have been tested and measured thoroughly by third parties. The only Rythmik sub that has any third party testing that I know of is the FV15HP. If Rythmik will send more models of its subs out for testing, we can better understand how it fares against its competitors.

That is true; at the same time -- Brian @ Rythmik does provide some very strong & aggressive numbers. I don't think they can replace real-world testing and comparisons ... I would have loved to have seen a true FV12 vs. Plus shoot out ... but he does provide compelling argument.

---

In the end, as I stated right above, I'm down to two ... Outlaw or Rythmik. Most likely I will take the safe, conservative, and might I add - tried & tested - approach, and get the Outlaw. But I can't say that I'm completely adverse to the newer, cutting edge technology that Direct Servo is offering. Some folks say it's a matter of db output vs accuracy. And I think I'm leaning more towards db output by a hair.

Comments welcome!
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post #26 of 66
1/18/12 at 10:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mickey79 View Post

I've actually come to the point where I'm down to two ... Outlaw or Rythmik. When it comes to Rythmik, it's basically FV12 because I can't afford to drop $1K+ on the FV15. For Outlaw, it's either Plus or EX. Since I can also mix 'n match for the .2 config.

But before I get into that, some responses ...



I do agree with you that most likely the differences are more minor as opposed to significant. I haven't seen anyone recommend Epik Legend over choices like Outlaw & HSU, and in most cases, even Rythmik, and that's the only reason Legend is somewhat shelved. Epik Empire is a different story! But definitely beyond my budget.

And I also agree that there is certainly a sort of Direct Servo, essentially Rythmik, "movement" going on. Those who've purchased it can't state 1 reason they would prefer Outlaw/HSU or any other traditional sub over it. And those who haven't definitely are attracted ... including me.



I was surprised you suggested VTF3 over EX. Any reason?



+1 ... I couldn't agree with you more. And I probably fall in that "safe, conservative choice" myself. Although I'm still not 100% decided and I'm definitely enticed by Direct Servo (FV12) ... I have to say that this is a big move up for me. I'm going from a $400 5.1 HTiB to a proper Reciever/Speaker 7.1 setup and I'm craving that floor-rumbling bass ... and I think I will be pretty happy with Outlaw.



That is true; at the same time -- Brian @ Rythmik does provide some very strong & aggressive numbers. I don't think they can replace real-world testing and comparisons ... I would have loved to have seen a true FV12 vs. Plus shoot out ... but he does provide compelling argument.

---

In the end, as I stated right above, I'm down to two ... Outlaw or Rythmik. Most likely I will take the safe, conservative, and might I add - tried & tested - approach, and get the Outlaw. But I can't say that I'm completely adverse to the newer, cutting edge technology that Direct Servo is offering. Some folks say it's a matter of db output vs accuracy. And I think I'm leaning more towards db output by a hair.

Comments welcome!

I'm in the same boat as you as i t came down to the Outlaw and Rythmik. Originally i had my mind made up to get the Outlaw, but then i started seeing a lot of recommendations to get the FV12. It sounds to me from what i gathered from people is that the Rythmik is a more detailed crisp on in terms of bass, which is a plus. Its also my first real sub, as im going from HTIB subs, so both would be a huge leap up. With that said I think i'm going with the Rythmik.
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post #27 of 66
1/18/12 at 10:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mickey79 View Post

I was surprised you suggested VTF3 over EX. Any reason?

I would choose the VTF-3 MK4 over the EX if they are the same price. I'm a happy EX owner, but the data indicates that the VTF-3 should be slightly better in flatness of frequency response and low range (whether or not the difference would be noticeable, who knows), and it has additional tuning options with their new Q tuning settings. Then again, in different rooms, one or the other may perform better than the other. The reason I bought the EX was because it was on b-stock for $574 shipped.

I just personally wouldn't pay significantly (approx $100) or more for any of the SVS PB12-NSD, Outlaw EX, or VTF-3 MK4 over the other. They seem too similar, and I'm cheap like that
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post #28 of 66
1/18/12 at 11:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

I would choose the VTF-3 MK4 over the EX if they are the same price. I'm a happy EX owner, but the data indicates that the VTF-3 should be slightly better in flatness of frequency response and low range (whether or not the difference would be noticeable, who knows), and it has additional tuning options with their new Q tuning settings. Then again, in different rooms, one or the other may perform better than the other. The reason I bought the EX was because it was on b-stock for $574 shipped.

I just personally wouldn't pay significantly (approx $100) or more for any of the SVS PB12-NSD, Outlaw EX, or VTF-3 MK4 over the other. They seem too similar, and I'm cheap like that

Id do the same too. The vtf3 does have the extr tuning capabilities plus the ports too! But the price tag /value og the ex was too good to give up at the time
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post #29 of 66
1/18/12 at 11:06am
Isn't the down firing design considered to be inferior, or at least have some considerations that a side/front firing sub doesn't have to deal with?
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post #30 of 66
1/18/12 at 11:11am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffster15 View Post

I'm in the same boat as you as i t came down to the Outlaw and Rythmik. Originally i had my mind made up to get the Outlaw, but then i started seeing a lot of recommendations to get the FV12. It sounds to me from what i gathered from people is that the Rythmik is a more detailed crisp on in terms of bass, which is a plus. Its also my first real sub, as im going from HTIB subs, so both would be a huge leap up. With that said I think i'm going with the Rythmik.

I hear you; that's exactly what I'm hearing ... detailed crisp & accuracy ... and I'm also seeing a lot of recommendations for Rythmik; it's growing.

If by any chance you happen to pull the trigger & recieve the Rythmik before I make my purchase (I'm basically waiting for sale on Outlaw or B-Stock availability) ... please come back here & post feedback on your Sub. Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

I would choose the VTF-3 MK4 over the EX if they are the same price. I'm a happy EX owner, but the data indicates that the VTF-3 should be slightly better in flatness of frequency response and low range (whether or not the difference would be noticeable, who knows), and it has additional tuning options with their new Q tuning settings. Then again, in different rooms, one or the other may perform better than the other. The reason I bought the EX was because it was on b-stock for $574 shipped.

I just personally wouldn't pay significantly (approx $100) or more for any of the SVS PB12-NSD, Outlaw EX, or VTF-3 MK4 over the other. They seem too similar, and I'm cheap like that

I don't think the Q Tuning or additional tuning options would sway me; I'm coming from HTiB subs ... no options!! I still have to learn how to setup and tune my sub, so the less options the better! But I understand your point ... VTF3 MK4 may have slight edge over EX.

And I can relate ... I'm vehemently refreshing the B-Stock page on Outlaw because I really would like to score the EX (or Plus) on those $574 or $499 Shipped prices - despite the "B" stock. Even if I were to want a VTF3 MK4, if I could get those B-Stock (or Sale) prices on Outlaw - I'd go for Outlaw. Every penny saved is a penny earned. My wife is adamantly opposed to B-Stock ... she wants to pay full retail $738 shipped for the EX today; I'm trying so hard to keep her at bay & wait. Somebody also mentioned checking out if Outlaw puts out a sale around Super Bowl weekend.

Thanks.
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