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Good deal for anyone looking to purchase a budget sub

post #1 of 48
Thread Starter 
For those interested in a solid deal on a budget subwoofer check out the Pinnacle PS Sub 225 being offer by Meijer right now for only $149. I picked up one a little over a week ago to do a review on it, and based upon my experience thus far I feel for that price it is quite the bargain.

Note: Meijer does not allow you to return opened electronics for any reason, so if you opt to purchase one do so with the understanding that there is no 30 day in home trial like most other companies offer.
post #2 of 48
Now, $129.

How does this compare to something like the Lava 8" and 12" subs in SQ, Jim?
post #3 of 48
Cool budget subwoofer thing that worries me is the that one reviewer mentioned his failed in first 5min.
post #4 of 48
20 oz magnet? I've eaten steaks bigger then that.
post #5 of 48
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Now, $129.

Holy crap! It's drop 30% from when I bought it, which is less than 2 weeks ago. That's a fast way for me to eat $60, eh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

How does this compare to something like the Lava 8" and 12" subs in SQ, Jim?

I'm sure it would handily beat the 8" Lava, but not having heard the 12" I can't honestly do more then speculate. From what I've read about the Lava it tends to exaggerate frequencies between say 40-60Hz, which would probably make it sound as though it has better "slam". But thus far I've found this sub to be fairly articulate.

If you've read any of the other reviews I've done you know I test with lossy and loseless music. I've only used lossy to this point -- high bitrate MP3's, but MP3's nonetheless -- but I haven't had the opportunity to try straight CD's just yet.

I can give that a shot tonight, if you're considering a purchase (I suspect time is of the essence here, at least at that price).
post #6 of 48
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by drewTT View Post

20 oz magnet? I've eaten steaks bigger then that.

Agreed; I don't think the FV12 has much to worry about.
post #7 of 48
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyrob425 View Post

Cool budget subwoofer thing that worries me is the that one reviewer mentioned his failed in first 5min.

Yea, I saw that too. Mines got at least 25 hours on it and seems to be working fine. It does have a 2 year warranty on the amp, and 7 years on everything else. At that price it's almost disposable though.
post #8 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

I'm sure it would handily beat the 8" Lava, but not having heard the 12" I can't honestly do more then speculate. From what I've read about the Lava it tends to exaggerate frequencies between say 40-60Hz, which would probably make it sound as though it has better "slam". But thus far I've found this sub to be fairly articulate.

Good to know. Sounds like this would be a great buy for anyone wanting a budget sub to go with a 2.1 PC setup. People are always looking for deals on those in the <$150 range.
post #9 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

People are always looking for deals on those in the <$150 range.

This is a little off topic but I can wholeheartedly recommend two Dayton Audio SUB-80 8" powered woofers.

I was impressed with them in my modest bedroom set up, so I hauled them back to the den where they were quickly calibrated and temporarily replaced my two Emo sub 12s. There they were devoted to a full night of listening to a mix of music I am intimately familiar with and I was greatly surprised by them.

When put back in service in the bedroom and movie duty they performed well within their limitations. I don't listen to movies at reference levels with any of my four systems anyway but did put a few extra watts into them and the booms went 'boom' and rattled things in their surrounding.

At (now) $158 shipped for the pair (I wouldn't get less than two) they are worth it. I imagine the 10"s at $10 bucks a pop more would be even more so. With a 45 Day Money Back Guarantee - coupled with reported great customer service - all can be had with perhaps a little more confidence in one's purchase.
post #10 of 48
Jim, thank you for your work on the Budge Subs thread. Do you know how this would compare to the BIC F12? I thought my dad's old sub would work for my HT system, but turns out it doesn't. Now I am looking for a budget sub.

Thanks!
Sabin
post #11 of 48
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabin057 View Post

Jim, thank you for your work on the Budge Subs thread. Do you know how this would compare to the BIC F12? I thought my dad's old sub would work for my HT system, but turns out it doesn't. Now I am looking for a budget sub.

Unfortunately I can't say definitively because I haven't had the opportunity to hear the the F12 myself. The comments I see infer it has a good amount of "slam", but may be somewhat lacking in the amount of definition it provides.

I'm most of the way done evaluation the Pinnacle sub I bought, so I can't even provide you with a link to my write up (because I haven't even started it yet). However, the Cliff Notes version is for $129 I don't believe there's anything out there that can touch it.

The output tends to mirror the source material more so then most of the other budgets subs I've reviewed, so if what you're listening to has deep bass that's what you get. If there isn't any you don't get any. If the source material is good -- like properly mixed music -- the sound is commensurate. That also holds true if you're listening to a crappy source; if it's bad so too is the sound.

It's surprisingly faithful in that regard, which may or may not be to your liking. My own proclivity is for tonal accuracy; I don't particularly like a sub to exaggerate any part of the frequency range just for the "wow" factor. Probably why my predilection is towards acoustic suspension I suppose.

So I guess it can be summed up with that old acronym; GIGO. Garbage In, Garbage Out. But that also means quality in, quality out.
post #12 of 48
Thank you for the response, Jim. This may just very well be a "right place at the right time" thing, seeing as these are pretty darn decent for the $129 price.

Could you give me the dimensions of the room you are testing in? And I assume from your comment that these are better for music than HT? Right now I'd be doing more HT/Gaming than Music, but plan to incorporate more music as time progresses.

Before my parents moved, we had a PA-120, which I felt was kind of boomy for music. But maybe I just had it in a bad spot.

edit-
Thought I might as well see your opinion on two of these vs. something @$300 - like say.. a HSU STF-1 or 2.

Thanks alot - appreciate your time and input,
Sabin
post #13 of 48
If your looking for a good sub ebay has a pinnacle 10"inch high output subwoofer for 115.00.I have a 15wx18lx12h room that i have the sub in it shakes the whole room and it has some nice tight hits I was really surprised.
post #14 of 48
I would not buy the pinnacle sub on Meijer its not the 10inch high output its a different model.
post #15 of 48
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabin057 View Post

Could you give me the dimensions of the room you are testing in?

13x17x8, carpeted.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabin057 View Post

And I assume from your comment that these are better for music than HT? Right now I'd be doing more HT/Gaming than Music, but plan to incorporate more music as time progresses.

It's better at faithful reproduction, which is why the caveat; not everyone likes how that sounds.

A lot of subs designed for HT -- especially budget minded ones -- tend to exaggerate certain frequencies, in order to achieve the illusion of better "slam". This generally manifests itself as a constant bass track, regardless of the source material (TV/movies/games/music). In reality, that's simply not the case. There are passages where no prominent bass exists, where your sub should be merely a supporting piece and not a conspicuous one. Sadly, that doesn't fly with too many of the buying public it seems.

You've probably heard a subwoofer described as "musical", or even fast. From my experience a lot of that can be attributed more so to a flat response curve, which should actually be the ultimate goal. You may have also noticed a lot of people using an EQ on their sub, with the intention of doing just that; flattening out the response. The closer you get to that ideal the more faithful the reproduction becomes. The downside, of course, is your sub won't sound like your neighbors thick and heavy bass monster. Which is a good thing, in my opinion, but it's not one shared by all.

A sub I recently reviewed -- the OSD PS10 -- falls close to that category. To my ear there seems to be an emphasis in the 40-50Hz range, prime territory for the "wow" factor. It's a good sub, don't get me wrong, but it does have a tendency to emulate a lot of the other budget subs in that regard. The additional boost creates a scenario where there's bass present almost all the time, which is not completely accurate.

Speaking of the PS10... there is a 12" variant called the PS12 that might be worth looking into as well.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabin057 View Post

Thought I might as well see your opinion on two of these vs. something @$300 - like say.. a HSU STF-1 or 2.

It's difficult for me to imagine the STF-1 being able to compete with the PS Sub 225. The STF-2 could potentially have greater low frequency extension, but I doubt it would match the output. I'm not certain how faithful it's reproduction is though, because I've never heard it.

When you run dual subs the primary benefits are evening out the sound distribution and increasing output. You don't really gain any significant benefits in the lower frequencies because a subs limit is it's limit, and that can't be changed. By virtue of having multiples you definitely increase the total volume capability, and can lower each individual sub's gain because of it, but you don't get additional bass.
post #16 of 48
Given the current conversations, Jim, would you consider modifying this thread to make it the "Under $300 Budget Sub Deals of the Week" thread? The place to post the next time the RW-12D goes on sale. The place for us to send people with these "help with under $300 sub" threads, and place to discuss the relative merit of the current sale subs with alternatives in this price range. Then, if it active for a few months, we could ask for it to be a sticky.
post #17 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by haussanator View Post

If your looking for a good sub ebay has a pinnacle 10"inch high output subwoofer for 115.00.I have a 15wx18lx12h room that i have the sub in it shakes the whole room and it has some nice tight hits I was really surprised.

The sub on ebay is the sub Meijer is selling for $89.00. The physical dimensions and weight are the same. The Magnet weight is the same also. The only thing that looks different is wattage, but anyone can list what they want.

I think I would go for the 12" sub from Meijers for $129.00 like Jim recommends.
post #18 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

13x17x8, carpeted.




It's better at faithful reproduction, which is why the caveat; not everyone likes how that sounds.

A lot of subs designed for HT -- especially budget minded ones -- tend to exaggerate certain frequencies, in order to achieve the illusion of better "slam". This generally manifests itself as a constant bass track, regardless of the source material (TV/movies/games/music). In reality, that's simply not the case. There are passages where no prominent bass exists, where your sub should be merely a supporting piece and not a conspicuous one. Sadly, that doesn't fly with too many of the buying public it seems.

You've probably heard a subwoofer described as "musical", or even fast. From my experience a lot of that can be attributed more so to a flat response curve, which should actually be the ultimate goal. You may have also noticed a lot of people using an EQ on their sub, with the intention of doing just that; flattening out the response. The closer you get to that ideal the more faithful the reproduction becomes. The downside, of course, is your sub won't sound like your neighbors thick and heavy bass monster. Which is a good thing, in my opinion, but it's not one shared by all.

A sub I recently reviewed -- the OSD PS10 -- falls close to that category. To my ear there seems to be an emphasis in the 40-50Hz range, prime territory for the "wow" factor. It's a good sub, don't get me wrong, but it does have a tendency to emulate a lot of the other budget subs in that regard. The additional boost creates a scenario where there's bass present almost all the time, which is not completely accurate.

Speaking of the PS10... there is a 12" variant called the PS12 that might be worth looking into as well.




It's difficult for me to imagine the STF-1 being able to compete with the PS Sub 225. The STF-2 could potentially have greater low frequency extension, but I doubt it would match the output. I'm not certain how faithful it's reproduction is though, because I've never heard it.

When you run dual subs the primary benefits are evening out the sound distribution and increasing output. You don't really gain any significant benefits in the lower frequencies because a subs limit is it's limit, and that can't be changed. By virtue of having multiples you definitely increase the total volume capability, and can lower each individual sub's gain because of it, but you don't get additional bass.

Thank you for the thoughtful response Jim. I think I rather have lower freqs than power at the moment. STF-2 might be what I decide on.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7026/6...6ee429ef_b.jpg

This is my room layout. :-)
post #19 of 48
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabin057 View Post

Thank you for the thoughtful response Jim. I think I rather have lower freqs than power at the moment. STF-2 might be what I decide on.

The STF-2 would probably work well in that room, as would the PS12 and PS Sub 225. You have a couple of pretty good choices available. Another few to consider might be...

Acoustic Audio HD-SUB15 (comes in other cabinet finishes as well)

BIC America V1220

Earthquake FF12


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabin057 View Post

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7026/6...6ee429ef_b.jpg

This is my room layout. :-)

So the cat never moves? Impressive.
post #20 of 48
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Given the current conversations, Jim, would you consider modifying this thread to make it the "Under $300 Budget Sub Deals of the Week" thread? The place to post the next time the RW-12D goes on sale. The place for us to send people with these "help with under $300 sub" threads, and place to discuss the relative merit of the current sale subs with alternatives in this price range. Then, if it active for a few months, we could ask for it to be a sticky.

My concern with a "deals" thread is that over time it would become less and less valuable. It seems like it would grow inversely to the number of deals, so just the last few posts would be relevant to that current point in time but the thread would continue to expand nonetheless. In general I like the concept, but the implementation might be difficult.

I guess someone -- more then likely me -- should start a thread specifically designed for people to post their comments/experience with the budget subs they own or have heard themselves. That I suspect would be more valuable as time went on, becoming a reference of sorts.
post #21 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

It seems like it would grow inversely to the number of deals, so just the last few posts would be relevant to that current point in time but the thread would continue to expand nonetheless. In general I like the concept, but the implementation might be difficult.

That happens to owners threads, too, where the last few weeks/months of the thread become what is most valuable. For example, the Energy Owners Thread in the speaker forum has over 36,000 posts (lol). Reading through the whole thing is like reading a novel. So it might work out better than you think.
post #22 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

My concern with a "deals" thread is that over time it would become less and less valuable. It seems like it would grow inversely to the number of deals, so just the last few posts would be relevant to that current point in time but the thread would continue to expand nonetheless. In general I like the concept, but the implementation might be difficult.

I guess someone -- more then likely me -- should start a thread specifically designed for people to post their comments/experience with the budget subs they own or have heard themselves. That I suspect would be more valuable as time went on, becoming a reference of sorts.

That sounds like a great idea, especially for someone in my position. I tried to do something of that sort with HDTV's under $1500, but failed because of the limit of my knowledge and experience. This may overwhelm you quickly - so it would be good for other people to help you.

If you can find a way for me to help you - even with just sending you links of different reviews on different subwoofers, I will be willing to help out. PM me anytime if need be.

I think the deal of the week would be good too, but that would require others to help you out as well, I'd hate to think you'd be checking prices every week to find the best deal for people. That borders more on laziness on their part IMO, than your idea.

With your idea, you are giving them good choices, and it's up to them to find the deals. The downside to that is that they might not know if it's a good deal compared to the other choices

With that said, I'm glad to add to the confusion, because everything I said contradicted everything else I said.

Sabin

PS: If only my real cat was as obedient as that diagram cat ... if only.
post #23 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabin057 View Post

I think the deal of the week would be good too, but that would require others to help you out as well, I'd hate to think you'd be checking prices every week to find the best deal for people. That borders more on laziness on their part IMO, than your idea.

I wasn't trying to imply that Jim should have to be responsible. There are enough people on AVS that semi-regularly try to help out on these "find me a sub for under $300" posts, that I think it would happen on its own.
post #24 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

I wasn't trying to imply that Jim should have to be responsible. There are enough people on AVS that semi-regularly try to help out on these "find me a sub for under $300" posts, that I think it would happen on its own.

Haha, ok. :-) Yes I agree. I'd do my part as best I can as well. And I wasn't calling you out on anything, was just brainstorming with myself.
post #25 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabin057 View Post

Haha, ok. :-) Yes I agree. I'd do my part as best I can as well. And I wasn't calling you out on anything, was just brainstorming with myself.

Oh I knew that. Just realized I shouldn't give Jim the idea I was thinking that
post #26 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Oh I knew that. Just realized I shouldn't give Jim the idea I was thinking that

Woohoo!

Jim, I was going to put this in your Budget Subwoofer thread, but then I realized it might violate your "don't discuss what's better" rule. It doesn't necessarily relate to your OP, but it does relate to everything afterwards.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1382938 Insightful for Budget/Mid-range subs. Not alot of discussion, but it has a decent amount of votes.

Now that I think about it, maybe the weekly thing can be a poll, with discussion. That way you will get alot of input and a visual way to tie it together. Just brainstorming again.
post #27 of 48
I don't want to ruffle any feathers but I'm just wondering why there should be a "help with subs under $300" thread but not for the other end of the spectrum? Why can somebody with less means or with less resources available (like where they live) would have to loose out on the countless expert inputs. It just feel like ppl who can't or choose not to spend $xxxxxx on a sub would just be shoved in a corner of the forum to not bother the "real" sub owners... I choose not to spend thousands of dollars on a sub or subs, but believe me, my passion for this hobby is as valid as anybody else...

just a thought....
post #28 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by jproy13 View Post

I don't want to ruffle any feathers but I'm just wondering why there should be a "help with subs under $300" thread but not for the other end of the spectrum? Why can somebody with less means or with less resources available (like where they live) would have to loose out on the countless expert inputs. It just feel like ppl who can't or choose not to spend $xxxxxx on a sub would just be shoved in a corner of the forum to not bother the "real" sub owners... I choose not to spend thousands of dollars on a sub or subs, but believe me, my passion for this hobby is as valid as anybody else...

just a thought....

The way I see it, most people wanting a $300 or less sub are beginners, and could use all the help they can get. People willing to spend $xxxxxx usually know what they are doing, or have some general idea. Also, aren't those subwoofer shootouts for high end subs? I never really looked at them with too much detail because all of the charts and graphs confuse the heck out of me.

But anyway, who said there shouldn't be a thread like that for the high-end spectrum? I don't think anyone would disagree with you. I just assume there aren't too many people out there with $xxxxxx, but if there are, I want them to be my friend.
post #29 of 48
I'm a new person. But learning. I wish there was a sticky to help keep shoppers away from junk. If it weighs less than 25 pounds, if it is made of plastic, if it only has one knob on the back. If it's AC Input voltage is less than 100 watts. Maybe include the difference between a Y verses a single input cable. I wouldn't include brands or prices. Just what to look for. How to tell if a used sub is blown. How to get marbles and ABC blocks out of your sub when your rug rats put them in the hole..
- Joe
post #30 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by jproy13 View Post

I don't want to ruffle any feathers but I'm just wondering why there should be a "help with subs under $300" thread but not for the other end of the spectrum? Why can somebody with less means or with less resources available (like where they live) would have to loose out on the countless expert inputs. It just feel like ppl who can't or choose not to spend $xxxxxx on a sub would just be shoved in a corner of the forum to not bother the "real" sub owners... I choose not to spend thousands of dollars on a sub or subs, but believe me, my passion for this hobby is as valid as anybody else...

just a thought....

Because some people who spend $xxxxxx on any audio component, completely diss all products in a lower price bracket and the consumers who seek them out. The best we can do for right now is carve out a few niches for ourselves and seek out advice on getting the best equipment for our dollars and needs.
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