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First Time Odd Location Build (DSX)

post #1 of 9
Thread Starter 
Howdy folks,

I've been absorbing information here and around the web about audio-video equipment wall treatments, placements etc. for what seems like a week and my head is just about spinning!

I've made a few decisions and think it's time to ask for some advice/opinions from people who've put one of these together. I have never owned a home theater so it may well be that I wouldn't know the difference between well-placed or not speakers by listening... (without a comparison).

I would like to put speaker wire in the walls so that it looks nice. That means speaker placement must be decided in advance!

I've read nice things about Audyssey DSX and it makes sense to put speakers in front where you can perceive better. HTPC will provide content with bit-streaming to the following:

A/V: Onkyo NR-709.

Speakers: Energy RC.

Either: 2x RC-50 or 70 with 4x RC-10s for the surrounds and RC-LCR center
or: 6x RC-LCR all over
or: 6x RC-10 to save a little dough
all with a $300 sub.

Projector: Epson 5010 or Sony hw30es
Screen: Elite screen 100"

Audio questions!

1. Can Onkyo even drive the rc-50s and 70s satisfactorily?
2. It's mostly a theater application in a small room, would I benefit from uniform LCR or RC-10 or will I reaaallly miss having rc-50?
3. Can I use acoustic fiberglass instead of drywall and actually cut down on reflections? Isn't that room a reflection nightmare?
4. Which placement do you like best? (See attached floor plan)
5. What does DSX do to native DTS/Dolby pro 7.1 sound?

Video questions!
0. 10' or 12' view distance for 100" screen sound ok? If screen starts where RC50 ends, is this good height or too high?
1. might have light control issues, cuts the Sony out of running?
2. Dust/yellowing worry on LCD projectors justified?

Thanks for your help!
Look forward to hearing from you and hopefully letting you know how it goes once I gets started for reals!

Files: Pic are actual pictures, the others are scale sketches... ScreenPic shows the hole I'd like to place screen in.
post #2 of 9
Thread Starter 
My walls may not be right for built-ins but it would really help with the mobility around the room and furniture placement... noble fidelity speakers looked good (reviews) but my wall placement doesn't seem to work for any sort of built in speakers.

Also should I play it safe and go down to a 92"? 100" just barely fits in that 9' wide space!

Insights are very much appreciated!
post #3 of 9
Thread Starter 
I guess this thread might be more at home in the general room section? It will be used for future balcony access and it won't be quite as nice as ya'lls dedicated spaces but idk how to move it...

And im very seriously thinkin about turning the seating/projection area 90 deg.

Have a nice weekend!
post #4 of 9
I saw your link from the Energy Owner's thread. That's an odd-shaped room alright . First, the Onkyo should be allright unless you listen at very high volumes. Anyway you say you'll have a sub so the demanding low freqs will be handled by the sub's amp.

As for the speakers, the RC-70s are awesome, but I bet 7 LCRs would definetely rock and provide a very uniform tone.

Placement is really tricky. If I were you, I'd consider placing the fronts closer to the couch, wider, under the roof slope, e.g. where the larger pieces of insulation lie on your pics. That would allow a much better dispersion for the fronts. Depending on your plans for the dormer window area, you could also try putting the center on a stand in the middle of the line formed by the fronts. You could also put the screen closer to the couch unless you want it to also block the window.

You could then back off a bit with the couch, letting some space between the surround backs (directly behind the couch on the wall) and the couch, and placing the surround sides either on stands beside the couch or closer to the walls.

Ah unless... you seem to be planning instead for only two surround speakers and go with front wides instead. Well you could put the front wides where you planned them, and the surrounds in the back corners (or actually a bit closer to the couch).
post #5 of 9
Would this speaker placement work in your room?

EDIT: check my mad ps skills
post #6 of 9
Thread Starter 
Thank you very much for your photoshopped images neutro, I never thought to do anything like that, but it does help to visualize it! Those are some madd skills!

I've found out it has to be placed here, using the room lengthwise won't work.

I'll put up a nicer drawing once I decide on the placements

The DSX guy Chris Kyriakakis recommends using dipole surrounds. I found some veritas surrounds for only $250, do you think they would be worth it? Would they sound ok with the other RCs?

What do you use in your surround setup?
post #7 of 9
Originally Posted by bananapeal View Post

I've found out it has to be placed here, using the room lengthwise won't work.

I'd definitely put the fronts as far back as possible under the slope of the roof, but not inside the dormer window.

That may pose a problem for the center if you don't want it in the middle of the floor there. However there is two other options for the center.

1. You could try suspending it above the screen. Altough since the screen is fairly large, you'll notice that sound is coming from up there. Then again if your screen comes down low, the sound from the center will come from the floor instead.

2. Many screens I think are partly acoustically transparent. So it's possible to put the center channel behind the screen, at the listening position's ear level. However if you put the center say on the wall just under the window, it will be much further away than the fronts. You'd probably be able to compensate with a good receiver though, but ideally the center should not be that recessed.


The DSX guy Chris Kyriakakis recommends using dipole surrounds. I found some veritas surrounds for only $250, do you think they would be worth it? Would they sound ok with the other RCs?

What do you use in your surround setup?

I never heard dipoles/bipoles but they're made to radiate indirect sound. That is, you won't be able to pinpoint the source of the sound emitted by them. (This is because the dipole design cancels sound waves on the acoustic axis; you'll only get reflected sound). This is supposed to be ideal, but surround speakers are generally much more expensive.

The 250$ Veritas VS at Vann's seems to be an excellent deal. Altough this is not for a *pair*, it's for each VS. Matching surround speakers tonally with the fronts is not as important as with the center, and the Veritas are still quite close to the RC line, so the VS should do a really good job with either RC-70s or RC-LCR. The matching RC-line dipole speaker is the RC-R, and it seems harder to find than the Veritas VS. For example, Amazon.com lists it for 393.40 each (in fact from Cnergy Ventures, which is not an authorized Energy dealer). I'm pretty sure the RC-R is not produced anymore.

My surround setup is presently in a phase of transition I had Connoisseur Energy speakers all around (CB-20s as fronts, CC-10 center and CB-10s for side surrounds). But I purchased RC-70s last Christmas, and now just ordered an RC-LCR and RC-10s. The RC-10s will replace the CB-10s for surrounds.

I'll use RC-10s as surrounds instead of dipoles because 1) a pair of RC-10s at Vann's are currently 300$, still 200$ below the V-S; 2) I don't want the hassle of hiding speaker wires in my walls; and 3) I'm actually running a 7.1 setup. The surround backs in my case are older/crappier bookshelf speakers on their back on the floor behind my couch (which is back to a bay window). Since there's no line of sight between the listener and the surround backs, that works really well as "diffuse surrounds", and they blend well with the surround sides. In 5.1 audio, the same sound goes to the surround sides and surround backs, so the localized sound from the sides is diluted with the diffuse sound from the backs. In 7.1 audio (pretty much only PS3 games), the sound is continually changing and the surround back content is generally close to the surround side content, giving pretty much the same experience.

I don't have front wides or front heights though.
post #8 of 9
For your room, you have another option for the rear speakers. The Mirage OMD5's. They got some love in the bipole/dipole thread. They have a different type of dispersion than either direct or bipole/dipole and do very well in odd shaped rooms or in locations where placement is less than ideal.

I am using a pair as surrounds with RC-10's up front and they sound great for both movies and multi-channel music. I had been using direct radiating speakers as the rear's but in my room they were not working well due to the fact that the sofa is against the back wall and the speakers were too close to either end of the sofa. (This setup is currently in a living room but will be going in a bedroom soon)


About 2/3's of the way down the page
post #9 of 9
Thread Starter 
thanks for your inputs guys, I'm gonna try and plan for rc-10s as wides and the mirages in back. They do seem like a good compromise and are nicely priced!

I do have a lot of work to do to finish the insulation and wiring. And honestly, the floors might go in before I actually buy the speakers. Will just continuity test the wires with a multimeter not actual equipment.

So Here's to hoping that vanns will still have the rc series on sale by the time i'm ready to buy...

Oh and subwoofer wise, it seems their "bundle" throws in a klipsch sub10 for free!
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