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When moving my eyes I see phosphor effect on Panasonic...but not Samsung

post #1 of 24
Thread Starter 
I was hoping someone could explain this to me. I've been looking at the Panasonic and Samsung plasma televisions whenever I happen to be at the mall. What I have noticed is that whenever I move my eyes across the screen on a Panasonic, I see phosphor trails on the image. On the other hand, when I do the same on a Samsung plasma, I don't see it. I really don't get it. Is this a case of Samsung's phosphors being faster than the ones in Panasonic? Or does it have something to do with how Samsung and Panasonic go about producing the image? Just to let you know, I was looking at a 51' Samsung D6500 and a 50' Panasonic ST30.
post #2 of 24
That would be because the sets at the mall are cranked up. Way to solve it, quit moving your eyes, and quit going to the mall to watch tv.
post #3 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post

That would be because the sets at the mall are cranked up. Way to solve it, quit moving your eyes, and quit going to the mall to watch tv.

Thank you for you the snarky and unhelpful response. I look forward to your posts in the future...is there anyone else out there that can actually give some sort of insight?
post #4 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveZ06 View Post

Thank you for you the snarky and unhelpful response. I look forward to your posts in the future...is there anyone else out there that can actually give some sort of insight?

Wow have a bad day? Again, you are looking at sets in a showroom at the mall, that have their settings cranked up. Yes, you are going to see crap when looking at sets that are not calibrated. What more do you want to know?

Oh, and btw, stop looking at hd sets at the mall in a showroom, go to a ma & pop that actually calibrates their sets to sell them, and educate their buyers.
post #5 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post

Wow have a bad day? Again, you are looking at sets in a showroom at the mall, that have their settings cranked up. Yes, you are going to see crap when looking at sets that are not calibrated. What more do you want to know?

Oh, and btw, stop looking at hd sets at the mall in a showroom, go to a ma & pop that actually calibrates their sets to sell them, and educate their buyers.

Actually my day is going pretty well, just hoping that the answer to my question wasn't along the line of "quit moving your eyes and just stop watching TV at the mall". It didn't answer any part of my question and I interpreted it as snarky. Also, there are no small professional shops where I live, and if it means anything to you, I made sure both sets were on their "standard" mode.

With that out of the way, I will ask my question again for clarification purposes. Why is it I can see the phosphor lag effect more on a Panasonic plasma compared to a Samsung? Does it have something to do with how the panel drives itself? Or does it simply boil down to Samsung having faster phosphors than Panasonic?
post #6 of 24
Because you are moving your eyes, and your brain is also seeing the lag in the material between screens, if shifting between two or more, along with what kind of programming is being shown. Unless the showroom is a professional a/v shop that they calibrate their equipment, you are going to notice how crappy the displays are in the retail outlets like Sears, Best Buy, Wal-Mart, Costco, etc, due to the fact that they never did, and can not set up Blu-Ray players, or their tv sets being demoed to the public properly.

There is really not much more to say. You can ever see it at home if moving your eyes quicker, than the material being shown on the tv. It has been around since the dawn of tv sets, when CRT was king. Really has nothing to do with the sets, it is how your brain is interpreting the image it sees through your eyes.
post #7 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post

Because you are moving your eyes, and your brain is also seeing the lag in the material between screens, if shifting between two or more, along with what kind of programming is being shown. Unless the showroom is a professional a/v shop that they calibrate their equipment, you are going to notice how crappy the displays are in the retail outlets like Sears, Best Buy, Wal-Mart, Costco, etc, due to the fact that they never did, and can not set up Blu-Ray players, or their tv sets being demoed to the public properly.

There is really not much more to say. You can ever see it at home if moving your eyes quicker, than the material being shown on the tv. It has been around since the dawn of tv sets, when CRT was king. Really has nothing to do with the sets, it is how your brain is interpreting the image it sees through your eyes.

I do understand what you are saying. What I don't understand is how I can walk into a Sears, Best Buy, or wherever, and look at multiple Panasonic and Samsung plasmas ranging in different sizes and models only to come to the same conclusion. I see phosphor lag when I move my eyes on a Panasonic and not on a Samsung. I understand that sets need to be properly demoed and calibrated, but when it's something you see on multiple sets no matter what the model, size, or location; something makes you question how the sets function differently.

I wonder if there is anyone else on these forums have the same issue as I do. I don't know. Maybe I'm just strange. Panasonic always seems to be the greatest offender when it comes to this. I really like Panasonic plasmas and I plan on buying an ST50 this year. I guess I can hope with the new drive system and faster phosphors that it won't be a new issue for me any longer.
post #8 of 24
Doubtful that you are truly seeing Phospher lag on the sets. Again, it is your brain telling your eyes something that they are seeing, but in turn, you are trying to tell your brain what you think that it should be seeing.

But yes, overdriving the sets in the stores, or people messing with the settings, and the next guy comes along and used to seeing a calibrated set, or a set that they have adjusted at home to fit their viewing habits, even if they did not go through a full calibration, yes you are going to see issues with the set.

I can see it, when I go to my in-laws, and have to every time fix the settings to get both of their LCD's back into the calibration that I had previously set them at when I was last up there.

I would just go by the best info on the set you are looking at, check it out at various places and if you can, get the settings into some decent recognizable viewing. Worst thing is places like Wal-mart or Target, that have so much lighting, that even if you got the picture decent, it would look like crap in the store, unless you got it home and did the same settings.
post #9 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post

I can see it, when I go to my in-laws, and have to every time fix the settings to get both of their LCD's back into the calibration that I had previously set them at when I was last up there.

I can just see the conversation at your in-laws.

Did gregzoll come round again?

Yes.

That explains why the TV looks wierd.

Really some people like TV that way

To answer the thread starter I would probably get a Samsung if it bothers you. That said I have a Panasonic 55VT30 and am very happy with it. I don't see phosphors trails - but then I don't look for them either.....
post #10 of 24
Well they do have the contrast up to high levels and that makes it ten times worse.
post #11 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by undecided View Post

I can just see the conversation at your in-laws.

Did gregzoll come round again?

Yes.

That explains why the TV looks wierd.

Really some people like TV that way

To answer the thread starter I would probably get a Samsung if it bothers you. That said I have a Panasonic 55VT30 and am very happy with it. I don't see phosphors trails - but then I don't look for them either.....

Actually the tv is correct when I get done. And no if you like the tv cranked all the way up, you have problems. You like some others on here have a problem when it comes to comprehension. As for the OP, they are asking a question as to what they are seeing in the showrooms, and yes it is how they have their sets, but also it is a misunderstanding as to the term of "image retention" on the sets.
post #12 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by undecided View Post

I can just see the conversation at your in-laws.

Did gregzoll come round again?

Yes.

That explains why the TV looks wierd.

Really some people like TV that way

To answer the thread starter I would probably get a Samsung if it bothers you. That said I have a Panasonic 55VT30 and am very happy with it. I don't see phosphors trails - but then I don't look for them either.....

I don't look for them! They look for me I tell you! Anyway, I don't mind Samsung, but I'm a big gamer, and their image retention issues bother me. I have a friend that owns one and, like many Samsung plasmas, they can buzz pretty badly. They do have nice color accuracy. It's too bad Samsung didn't do much this year with their plasmas compared to Panasonic's rebuild of their panels. If it turns out Panasonic's re-engineering doesn't amount to much difference, than I'll pick up a Samsung.
post #13 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post

Actually the tv is correct when I get done. And no if you like the tv cranked all the way up, you have problems. You like some others on here have a problem when it comes to comprehension. As for the OP, they are asking a question as to what they are seeing in the showrooms, and yes it is how they have their sets, but also it is a misunderstanding as to the term of "image retention" on the sets.

What equipment are you using to "calibrate" the sets ? Just your eyes?

And is it really "wrong" if someone enjoys their tv settings maxed out. Last thing I knew everyone was different and can perceive things differently. Kinda like you thinking that you are not the combative ones on these forums. Try to limit the insults and people may take you seriously...then again, I highly doubt it.
post #14 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weags View Post

And is it really "wrong" if someone enjoys their tv settings maxed out.

It depends. it would be like someone pestering you endlessly about which shoes use the finest leathers, the craftsmanship in which they were made, and where they could get them and then they come to your wedding in a tux and sneakers.

A professional can spend hours color balancing and correcting an image. It doesn't make it "wrong" when his client prefers a Kodachrome look anymore than the guy who goes to an elegant restaurant with a bottle of ketchup.
post #15 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by adone36 View Post


It depends. it would be like someone pestering you endlessly about which shoes use the finest leathers, the craftsmanship in which they were made, and where they could get them and then they come to your wedding in a tux and sneakers.

A professional can spend hours color balancing and correcting an image. It doesn't make it "wrong" when his client prefers a Kodachrome look anymore than the guy who goes to an elegant restaurant with a bottle of ketchup.

I agree with the second part but the first paragraph is a poor comparison. I get the gist, but someone wearing a tux and sneakers to your wedding has a negative effect on the person whose wedding it is, regardless of the sneakers guys happiness.

Enjoying your tv with maxed out settings does no harm to anyone until the know-it-all uncle comes over and screws with it. Now you are left with a picture that while possibly correctly calibrated, is not one that you enjoy. So in my opinion if someone enjoys something and it doesn't harm anyone, it is not "wrong".
post #16 of 24
Enjoyment and accuracy are completely different. If a tomato looks like an eggplant, whether you "enjoy" it or not is immaterial to the fact that it is STILL wrong.
post #17 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post

And no if you like the tv cranked all the way up, you have problems. You like some others on here have a problem when it comes to comprehension.

?????

I like my TV to be accurately set and put a fair amount of effort into making sure it is.............

Others (probably your in laws) like it set up differently. Really if you actually have to 'every time fix the settings to get both of their LCD's back into the calibration that I had previously set them at when I was last up there' - you might want to take a hint as they must be switching it back to the way they like it once you leave.

Live and let live...
post #18 of 24
Going home to someone and without asking changing calibrations to yours not their likings... Way to make friends. Didn´t take the hint when they change back the settings?

A lot of tvs have limitations. If you find one thing you like it can be beneficial making that look really great and sacrificing other areas. Meaning don´t make it all averagly suck but let it shine in one or two key areas. Nothing wrong with that.

Personally I just about never find any picture enhancers that work but I will use them if I find them

As for phosphor trailing I didn´t see anything of that in stores on either the panasonics or my current Samsung plasma.

At home I do get some smear but I don´t know if it´s phosphour trailing (no green or anything) or something with the upscaling or whatever. Doesn´t handle motions as well as some Kuro plasmas I have looked at which shouldn´t have faster phosphour right?
post #19 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by adone36 View Post

Enjoyment and accuracy are completely different. If a tomato looks like an eggplant, whether you "enjoy" it or not is immaterial to the fact that it is STILL wrong.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. If a tomato looks like an eggplant but still tastes like a tomato, whats wrong with that ? How is that wrong? Does the maxing out the video settings make the tv that used to look like a tomato now look like an eggplant ? No it only changes the picture quality. And as far as I can see and in my experience, picture quality is a highly subjective thing, with calibration being low on the totem pole, when it comes to the average user and the differences that they see.
post #20 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by oqvist View Post

Going home to someone and without asking changing calibrations to yours not their likings... Way to make friends. Didn´t take the hint when they change back the settings?

A lot of tvs have limitations. If you find one thing you like it can be beneficial making that look really great and sacrificing other areas. Meaning don´t make it all averagly suck but let it shine in one or two key areas. Nothing wrong with that.

Personally I just about never find any picture enhancers that work but I will use them if I find them

As for phosphor trailing I didn´t see anything of that in stores on either the panasonics or my current Samsung plasma.

At home I do get some smear but I don´t know if it´s phosphour trailing (no green or anything) or something with the upscaling or whatever. Doesn´t handle motions as well as some Kuro plasmas I have looked at which shouldn´t have faster phosphour right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by undecided View Post


?????

I like my TV to be accurately set and put a fair amount of effort into making sure it is.............

Others (probably your in laws) like it set up differently. Really if you actually have to 'every time fix the settings to get both of their LCD's back into the calibration that I had previously set them at when I was last up there' - you might want to take a hint as they must be switching it back to the way they like it once you leave.

Live and let live...

Very well said.
post #21 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by undecided View Post

?????

I like my TV to be accurately set and put a fair amount of effort into making sure it is.............

Others (probably your in laws) like it set up differently. Really if you actually have to 'every time fix the settings to get both of their LCD's back into the calibration that I had previously set them at when I was last up there' - you might want to take a hint as they must be switching it back to the way they like it once you leave.

Live and let live...

Actually last time I was up there, they asked me to adjust the set, due to they moved the one from their basement upstairs, and vice versa. The one that was downstairs was calibrated for watching down there, due to it is watched mainly with the lights off, or dimmed. Upstairs it looked like crap, so made a few adjustments and they were satisfied with the picture after that.

You like others seem to jump to conclusions and get an holier than thou attitude, where as I do not, but I will tell you that you are.
post #22 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by oqvist View Post

Going home to someone and without asking changing calibrations to yours not their likings... Way to make friends. Didn´t take the hint when they change back the settings?

again they ask me to do it, also they have a punch list of stuff that needs done everytime I go up there. It is because they like me.

Quote:


A lot of tvs have limitations. If you find one thing you like it can be beneficial making that look really great and sacrificing other areas. Meaning don´t make it all averagly suck but let it shine in one or two key areas. Nothing wrong with that.

If the tv has limitations, that means that it is cheap and the manufacturer knows that people who do not care, or have a limited budget will buy it. Those with money, or do care about the picture, will investigate and research the best set for their money.

Quote:


Personally I just about never find any picture enhancers that work but I will use them if I find them

Enhancement was meant for cheating, and for use by those who do not understand how to properly calibrate sets. They came along with tube sets and never left.

Quote:


As for phosphor trailing I didn´t see anything of that in stores on either the panasonics or my current Samsung plasma.

A lot depends on the material being shown, but also depends on the sets. yes, Panny's and Sammy's will not show this stuff.

Quote:


At home I do get some smear but I don´t know if it´s phosphour trailing (no green or anything) or something with the upscaling or whatever. Doesn´t handle motions as well as some Kuro plasmas I have looked at which shouldn´t have faster phosphour right?

Something most likely is not set right, but also you did not state what you are watching at the time (ie dvd or bd, xbox or ps3, catv or satellite).
post #23 of 24
To the OP...your handle suggests you have a Vette, a Z06 no less....does it have the Nav package, and if so (if you have a real Z06 of course) do you see the same thing when viewing the onboard screen?

Edit: I know the screen tech is different of course, but in my Chrysler 300 I DO see some form of trails if the map screen is moving quickly, as opposed to my ex wifes vehicle (Lexus). I would imagine the build quality is much cheaper in my car and that could account for it. I guess this is off topic, but perhaps our eyes are more sensitive than most?
post #24 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post

again they ask me to do it, also they have a punch list of stuff that needs done everytime I go up there. It is because they like me.

Haaaaaa thanks for the laugh. Yes I bet they like you. Haha if the sign of someone liking me is having them ask me to do a ton of s@&t for them when I visit, I'd much rather them hate me. Only in your world gregzoll.
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