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HTPC Haters: Talk Me Out of a HTPC - Page 2

post #31 of 76
1/22/12 at 3:46pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Somewhatlost View Post

just a question, but what parts does assassin use that you do not like?
I am not an Assassin HTPC expert, but the couple of builds I have looked at have had a lot of attention paid to picking the appropriate parts for the planned usage... just makes me wonder if you may be planning on using inappropriate parts?

I didn't mean to question Assassin's expertise on HTPC construction...I acknowledge that they know alot more than I on the topic. I just would have chosen a different case and power supply. I would rather have a thinner case with hidden front connectors. Also, I prefer modular Seasonic power supplies for quiet and cool operation. I understand that I risk choosing components that don't fit well together and that I should select components that someone has already confirmed will work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Somewhatlost View Post

I have been out of the straight up HTPC thing for a while, but what is a HDPC? I have seen that popping up from time to time...

"HDPC" was me fat-fingering the keyboard. Perhaps I was thinking of HD systems when I did it....
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post #32 of 76
1/22/12 at 4:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkstaack View Post

I didn't mean to question Assassin's expertise on HTPC construction...I acknowledge that they know alot more than I on the topic. I just would have chosen a different case and power supply. I would rather have a thinner case with hidden front connectors. Also, I prefer modular Seasonic power supplies for quiet and cool operation. I understand that I risk choosing components that don't fit well together and that I should select components that someone has already confirmed will work.


"HDPC" was me fat-fingering the keyboard. Perhaps I was thinking of HD systems when I did it....

For the mini ITX build?

There is no such thing as a modular PSU for that case. And the PSU that Seasonic does make doesn't fit with an optical drive (trust me I tried).

As far as everything else is concerned as I mentioned we do custom builds. Actually that's our/my specialty. Many people don't want to pay the premium price for a modular PSU. They just want a great HTPC built with great parts. We provide that.

So you can have it your way. Just like Burger King.
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post #33 of 76
1/22/12 at 4:46pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

For the mini ITX build?

There is no such thing as a modular PSU for that case. And the PSU that Seasonic does make doesn't fit with an optical drive (trust me I tried).

Well, there certainly is alot to be said for experience. I am a DIYer and hate to pay a professional to do a job that I can do. However, on more than one occasion I have ended up spending more (in either money or sweat) doing it myself than if I hired a professional to do it. But I still had the satisfaction of doing it myself. Your guides may be what I want.
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post #34 of 76
1/22/12 at 5:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

I encourage you to build your own.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lkstaack View Post

Well, there certainly is alot to be said for experience. I am a DIYer and hate to pay a professional to do a job that I can do. However, on more than one occasion I have ended up spending more (in either money or sweat) doing it myself than if I hired a professional to do it. But I still had the satisfaction of doing it myself. Your guides may be what I want.

Like I told you early in this thread (see above) I encourage you to build your own.

In fact I encourage everyone to build their own. That's why I have a free parts guide and am constantly adding to my online step by step guides. You may ask If we were interested in maximizing our profit then why as a company would we/I do this? The answer is simple. We want everyone to get into HTPC however possible. With my small team AssassinHTPC.com isn't our primary job --- this is more like a hobby and a passion. We simply want anyone and everyone to get into HTPC. If you don't want (or aren't comfortable) with any of the process then we offer to help you with one of our units.

Otherwise our mission is simple: Get everyone and anyone into HTPC however possible (while not going completely broke doing it).
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post #35 of 76
1/22/12 at 5:34pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

Like I told you early in this thread (see above) I encourage you to build your own.

In fact I encourage everyone to build their own. That's why I have a free parts guide and am constantly adding to my online step by step guides. You may ask If we were interested in maximizing our profit then why as a company would we/I do this? The answer is simple. We want everyone to get into HTPC however possible. With my small team AssassinHTPC.com isn't our primary job --- this is more like a hobby and a passion. We simply want anyone and everyone to get into HTPC. If you don't want (or aren't comfortable) with any of the process then we offer to help you with one of our units.

Otherwise our mission is simple: Get everyone and anyone into HTPC however possible (while not going completely broke doing it).

Mr. Assassin: I appreciate your contribution to AVS' HTPC Forum. I linked to your blog shortly after considering a HTPC; your free and helpful information enabled me to easily start pricing components for a HTPC. It is obvious from the free information and cost of the HTPCs your team sells that your business model is not designed to make alot of money; the cost of components I can purchase through egghead is only a few bucks less than what you sell complete systems for. Your software set up fee is about what Geek Squad charges to turn a computer on.

However, even though a complete HTPC is less than what I paid for my first 8088 build, I still want to ensure that a HTPC is going to meet my needs before shelling out the cash. I guess I'll keep getting opinions and start reviewing your guides. Thanks.
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post #36 of 76
1/22/12 at 5:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkstaack View Post

Mr. Assassin: I appreciate your contribution to AVS' HTPC Forum. I linked to your blog shortly after considering a HTPC; your free and helpful information enabled me to easily start pricing components for a HTPC. It is obvious from the free information and cost of the HTPCs your team sells that your business model is not designed to make alot of money; the cost of components I can purchase through egghead is only a few bucks less than what you sell complete systems for. Your software set up fee is about what Geek Squad charges to turn a computer on.

However, even though a complete HTPC is less than what I paid for my first 8088 build, I still want to ensure that a HTPC is going to meet my needs before shelling out the cash. I guess I'll keep getting opinions and start reviewing your guides. Thanks.

No problem! Good luck in your search.

BTW - Make sure you check out my free parts guide here at AVS (in my sig). Also renethx's hardware guide is excellent as well.
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post #37 of 76
1/22/12 at 9:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkstaack View Post

My current rudimentary AV components do not meet my needs. While I can access everything, my wife and daughter lack the interest to learn the menus and idiosyncrasies of my clunky interfaces.

Wait, you are saying that your family lack the interest to use a Roku box which is as simple as you can get and you want to give them a HTPC? This doesn't sound like a good plan.

IMHO, for most people the best combination is Roku or Apple TV and a DVR from the cable company. They either learn how to use them or they find a new source of entertainment (jogging, biking, knitting, whatever).

The problem with HTPCs is that despite your best efforst to create a very polished front end for non-techies, content delivery is in constant state of flux and you end up tweaking

In my personal experience with non-techies, the best HTPC is the one that looks like a regular PC - they take the keyboard, open browser and watch Netflix, HBO, etc the same way they would watch it on their laptop. It is easy to understand and they don't have to learn a new iterface. Using a HTPC as an end-all is imho counterproductive - Blu-Ray playback is still often a royal PITA, much easier to buy a cheapo Blu-Ray player and use it when you need to play physical media.
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post #38 of 76
1/22/12 at 10:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

No offense to assassin, but I don't think so. I think he does the "easy" part, and what I think many people (wrongly IMO) consider the most intimidating part, assembling the hardware and installing the OS/apps. This is easy as you know. There aren't a lot of choices there, you just plug stuff in to the matching slots and run the Windows installer and follow the prompts. Not a lot can go wrong there. The hard part (IMO) is getting all the integration set up the way you want it, and I don't really think someone can do that for you.

+1.

It'd be easier if we all used the same input devices, AVR's, TV's, GPU's and we all watched the same formats. And again, it be easier if we were content with our media 'just playing'. But the truth is that most of us are OC and want to squeeze that last performance percentage out of our rigs.

Sometimes you just pray that after everything is installed and set-up, things run as you expect them to.
Me vs. my HTPC? The HTPC has won a far greater amount of battles.
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post #39 of 76
1/23/12 at 3:53am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by durack View Post

IMHO, for most people the best combination is Roku or Apple TV and a DVR from the cable company.

The problem with Roku and other boxes is that they require navigating menus and don't allow short cuts. My wife would rather launch Pandora from her cell phone and hear that tinny music from the kitchen counter top than use the Harmony remote to 1) start Roku, 2) back out from Netflix, 3) navigate to Pandora, 4) find her station and play. If Roku, my WD TV Live, or other devices would facilitate short cuts, macros, or discrete remote control codes, I could just program everything into my remote for one button operation and life would be good.

For this reason, navigating through PC applications with a mouse/browser won't meet my needs. I need one button remote control operation for each AV activity.
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post #40 of 76
1/23/12 at 6:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkstaack View Post

I didn't mean to question Assassin's expertise on HTPC construction...

why not?
question everything/one...
just provide more details as to where you are going with those questions so we spectators can either jump on for the ride, or try and talk you out of it...

Quote:
Originally Posted by lkstaack View Post

I acknowledge that they know alot more than I on the topic.

knowledge is over rated...
just jumping in and building something is far more fun...

Quote:
Originally Posted by lkstaack View Post

I just would have chosen a different case and power supply. I would rather have a thinner case with hidden front connectors. Also, I prefer modular Seasonic power supplies for quiet and cool operation.

only issue there is, as cases get smaller, finding things that physically fit becomes more "interesting"...
just double check all dimensions before ordering...

Quote:
Originally Posted by lkstaack View Post

I understand that I risk choosing components that don't fit well together and that I should select components that someone has already confirmed will work.

where is the fun in following what has already been done?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lkstaack View Post

"HDPC" was me fat-fingering the keyboard. Perhaps I was thinking of HD systems when I did it....

you aren't the only one... we should make HDPC a real thing...
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post #41 of 76
1/23/12 at 9:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by flocko View Post

Uh ya ... Tivo , u gotta be kidding me . I love it !

Personally , I love the building part of htpc and all the head aches it brings . I got into this mostly due to the fact that I wanted the challenge of being able to say "I did it " . I want folks to see the htpc and say .. wth is that and where did you get it ? Yes i am that vein . I love the fact that it drives me into insanity at times and other times gives me the most satisfaction. Most of all i really wanted to learn something new from a more software perspective as that is a weakness of mine.

@ the op . I honestly have to give you a "face palm" if you had the time to type that new thread (book) but don't think you have the time or inclination to do a htpc. Oh ... one more thing . I really like the idea that the wife and kids may find the new htpc a bit mystifying. Gives me the power over the REMOTE !! Ha . It also gives them a reason to learn something new as well .

After all , what are we if we are not learning ? Dead !

-flocko

Reminds me of my Golf game......
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post #42 of 76
1/25/12 at 3:13am
A HTPC is always a work in progress and the WAF is generally low until you have it stable. She hates it when I notice stutter and have to stop the movie and 'fix it'!

I loved introducing voice recognition! My HTPC would say 'yes master' to my every command. This was OK with the wife, until it heard sounds from the TV itself and started changing channels, switching to movies or starting music :-)

She hates it, but loves it!
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post #43 of 76
1/25/12 at 9:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osamede View Post

Buy a Mac Mini server edition and save yourself a lot of time. Best of both worlds - you get all the capabilities of HTPC and you don't waste you life trying to troubleshoot etc. Hell you can even run Windows 7 on it.

you can't get live broadcast TV on it, either... seems like a failed product from mac.
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post #44 of 76
1/25/12 at 9:55am
I am just curious what OP had chosen for components that his HTPC is going to cost $870 in parts? I assume that is without the CableCard tuner.
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post #45 of 76
1/25/12 at 10:41am
I'll give you an IT director's perspective.

I built a barebones HTPC with a BD optical drive running Win7. In the 7 months since I've had it, it's played all of three discs and several hours of Netflix content. I've sunk a total of $550, more hours into piecing it together, installing software, customizing, then researching and applying various fixes to firmware, WMC, and Win7 then I have actually watching content... and feel like I should've just bought a $100 standalone BD player with a Netflix app.

My wife and I spend a good 9+ hours a day constantly on a computer for our jobs, and I deal with sys admin issues all day at work... what I want when I come home is as little hassle as possible. Yes, I know when you have a HTPC all set, then it's near set-it-and-forget-it... but I am still sore about the initial time and $$ investment.

But unlike others in this subforum, I have hardly any digital media aside from MP3s and images. I don't rip discs, and most of my television watching is live sporting events. The wife and I have recently found traveling abroad and going out for walks as more fulfilling ways of spending our time.

I don't feel like I really thought this through beforehand for my particular situation. YMMV.
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post #46 of 76
1/25/12 at 11:44am
Unless you either...

A) have a significant library of movies/TV Shows that you want quick & easy access to instead of hunting down the disc and waiting for the player to get through the ads, menu and FBI warnings

or

B) are trying to cut the cable and need a DVR solution for OTA other than a Tivo with subscription

I really feel most non-tweakers/hobbyists would be better served with other combination of set-top boxes (BDP, Roku, Cable Company DVR, ATV2, etc). The idea of a single universal solution for all video content and programming is elegant, but ends up being far messier in practice than in theory. To say nothing of expensive. You can buy a BDP, RokuXS, AppleTV and pay for years of DVR rental from the cable co. and still not approach a high quality HTPC, especially if you need TB's of storage for HD content (factor in the price of a NAS or file server plus drives). And you will never likely exceed (or even match) the Blu-ray disc playback experience from a $100 Panasonic/Sony/whatever BDP with a HTPC.
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post #47 of 76
1/25/12 at 11:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkstaack View Post

However, even though a complete HTPC is less than what I paid for my first 8088 build

Well that's certainly an incredible understatement. In my first system I paid $750 for a 20MB (yes, that's MB) Microscience hard disk that was actually no faster than the double sided 5 1/4 inch floppy drive.

I could build at least 5 complete and very nice HTPCs for what I paid for my first 8086 pc.
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post #48 of 76
1/25/12 at 11:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kain77 View Post

But unlike others in this subforum, I have hardly any digital media aside from MP3s and images. I don't rip discs, and most of my television watching is live sporting events.

I'm largely in the same boat. But the ability to watch on the big screen the vast array of live sporting events available on the internet and not available on TV (even with the 40+ sports channels I get on DirecTV) is one of the things that makes our htpc invaluable.
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post #49 of 76
1/25/12 at 12:17pm
Get it set up, and then treat it like a magic box and it will meet your needs. The constant tweaker will never be happy with an HTPC.

My wife likes ours, but there are still some annoyances. Wrong resolution coming out of sleep, jumpy Netflix, need to upgrade to PowerDVD 11 just to play the latest blu-ray discs, fan noise, needing to rescan for clear QAM channels every week when Comcast decides to move them around.
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post #50 of 76
1/25/12 at 1:21pm
i am not an HTPC hater, i am using one that i built 3 years ago.....an alternative solution to HTPC would be media player device, i am also going to buy one for my bedroom.....below it is a link to talk about those media player. I can get one here in my city 1186 chipset based, 3D capable box with less than 200 USD. If you want video wall, you might consider popcorn hour 300 or something.... good thing about meidia player is that u dont have to worry about the different codec, hardware accelerati0n, audio streaming.....playing back blue ray iso/rip......etc

http://www.iboum.com/net-media-playe...pg=1&rp=creal6

I will however upgrade my HTPC in the living room as i do surf the internet, MSN sometime on that machine....
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post #51 of 76
1/25/12 at 5:45pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueiedgod View Post

I am just curious what OP had chosen for components that his HTPC is going to cost $870 in parts? I assume that is without the CableCard tuner.

Actually, I've got it down to $794 complete at Newegg, including SSD, OTA tuner and Win 7 (but not a HD...they are just too expensive right now) with the components Assassin recommends.

Quote:
Originally Posted by khollister View Post

Unless you either...

I really feel most non-tweakers/hobbyists would be better served with other combination of set-top boxes (BDP, Roku, Cable Company DVR, ATV2, etc). The idea of a single universal solution for all video content and programming is elegant, but ends up being far messier in practice than in theory. To say nothing of expensive. You can buy a BDP, RokuXS, AppleTV and pay for years of DVR rental from the cable co. and still not approach a high quality HTPC, especially if you need TB's of storage for HD content (factor in the price of a NAS or file server plus drives). And you will never likely exceed (or even match) the Blu-ray disc playback experience from a $100 Panasonic/Sony/whatever BDP with a HTPC.

I already have a NAS with gigs of media that I like to access. You may be right concerning sound/picture quality of a stand-alone box. However, some of those boxes are painfully slow as well. I am still considering purchasing separate components in lieu of a HTPC. However, to meet my needs and equal what a HTPC can provide, I will have to purchase:
-Dune player for video media
-Squeeze box for music media
-TViX for OTA DVR
-Roku for internet streaming

Add it up, and you have the cost of a HTPC. The quality of the HTPC may be inferior (though, personally I can't be certain), but you get an easier to use interface, plus all the other things a PC can do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spivonious View Post

Get it set up, and then treat it like a magic box and it will meet your needs. The constant tweaker will never be happy with an HTPC.

My wife likes ours, but there are still some annoyances. Wrong resolution coming out of sleep, jumpy Netflix, need to upgrade to PowerDVD 11 just to play the latest blu-ray discs, fan noise, needing to rescan for clear QAM channels every week when Comcast decides to move them around.

Hearing about HTPC problems like wrong resolution coming out of sleep concern me. Some HTPC owners report idiosyncrasies like that, and others don't. If I do go the HTPC route, I'll use Assassin's guide for build and setup and hope that everything works right.
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post #52 of 76
1/26/12 at 6:27am
The wrong resolution when coming out of sleep is bug regarding the wrong EDID info read by the GPU and it behaves something like this :

If you wake up the PC and the AV receiver or TV (depends if you have it connected to an AV receiver or directly to the TV) is not turned on or turned on but on a different/other input than the PC, and you are in a DirectX app like 7MC or XBMC, everything will have a zoom effect. Minimizing the app and maximizing it again fixes the issue.

If you wake up the PC and the AVR/TV is turned on and set on the imput the PC is, everything is fine and dandy.

I think it only affects ATI drivers, i too have this bug on my Zacate HTPC
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post #53 of 76
1/26/12 at 8:48am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenEyez View Post

The wrong resolution when coming out of sleep is bug regarding the wrong EDID info read by the GPU and it behaves something like this :

If you wake up the PC and the AV receiver or TV (depends if you have it connected to an AV receiver or directly to the TV) is not turned on or turned on but on a different/other input than the PC, and you are in a DirectX app like 7MC or XBMC, everything will have a zoom effect. Minimizing the app and maximizing it again fixes the issue.

If you wake up the PC and the AVR/TV is turned on and set on the imput the PC is, everything is fine and dandy.

I think it only affects ATI drivers, i too have this bug on my Zacate HTPC

Helpful information. So, a HTPC user should configure their remote's macro to power up the HTPC last. Someone should make a HTPC "Known Issues and Best Practices" list. Assassin?
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post #54 of 76
1/26/12 at 8:51am
Buy HTPC and then spend countless hours tweaking it making it as silent as possible, making it play all the content, making it do things.

I mean with dedicated DVD or Blu Ray player you cannot do this, with HTPC you can and you will
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post #55 of 76
1/26/12 at 9:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenEyez View Post

The wrong resolution when coming out of sleep is bug regarding the wrong EDID info read by the GPU and it behaves something like this :

If you wake up the PC and the AV receiver or TV (depends if you have it connected to an AV receiver or directly to the TV) is not turned on or turned on but on a different/other input than the PC, and you are in a DirectX app like 7MC or XBMC, everything will have a zoom effect. Minimizing the app and maximizing it again fixes the issue.

If you wake up the PC and the AVR/TV is turned on and set on the imput the PC is, everything is fine and dandy.

I think it only affects ATI drivers, i too have this bug on my Zacate HTPC

Good to know. I'm seeing that behavior with Intel's DG45ID motherboard (X4500HD video). I'll add a delay to my Harmony remote and see if that helps.
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post #56 of 76
1/26/12 at 9:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkstaack View Post

Helpful information. So, a HTPC user should configure their remote's macro to power up the HTPC last. Someone should make a HTPC "Known Issues and Best Practices" list. Assassin?

If i have time i`ll do a thread today regarding this and keep it up, good ideea.
Need to get a Harmony remote sometime, you can do really cool stuff with them, if only my dog didn`t chew up my last MCE receiver from my old remote .

Here`s 2 other issues i came across with my personal machine.

HDMI Lip-sync (set to on in the AV receiver settings) would cause microshuttering with my machine. Set to off, everything was/is smooth. But it took me a month to figure it out (re-calibrated my AVR and set that bloody setting to On by accident 1 month ago), including 10 driver releases, bitching about drivers (when, at least this time, it wasn`t their fault) and going from wireless to wired (which, tehnically, is an upgrade, but was a pain-in-the ... to do) for streaming.

Auto-refresh rate from MPC-HC and XBMC would not work properly. Switching to 24p would cause an enourmous shutterfest. Seems to be a bug only i encountered, since i can`t find anyone with the same issue on the AMD E350 platform. Temporary solution was to just set the desktop to 1080p24 and play a video. Then close it, XBMC would switch back to 60hz, and from there on, switching back and forth from 24p to 60hz would work just fine, like somehow it "locked" to the refresh rate. Really strange issue, but not a big deal anymore since i figured out the solution.
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post #57 of 76
1/26/12 at 10:23am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenEyez View Post

If i have time i`ll do a thread today regarding this and keep it up, good idea.

It would be a great resource for the community. I see you use XBMC as a front end (is "front end" is the right terminology?), while I plan on using Windows Media Center in order to control OTA broadcasts. Will these applications encounter the same problems?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenEyez View Post

Need to get a Harmony remote sometime, you can do really cool stuff with them

Yes, I have a Harmony, but I'll need something that uses RF. I used to use a Pronto remote and spent hundreds of hours customizing it. It could do more than a Harmony, but I like the Harmony's simplicity.
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post #58 of 76
1/26/12 at 12:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kev18 View Post

good thing about meidia player is that u dont have to worry about the different codec, hardware accelerati0n, audio streaming.....playing back blue ray iso/rip......etc

Of course you do.
I remember when I had Popcorn Hour and was playing MKV with subtitles on top and bottom of the screen, the box went crazy and would flash alternatively top and bottom subs. So for those MKVs the box was unusable.

New 10-bit MKVs are out now, do old boxes support them? On PC, VLC still does not, CCCP does, so all it takes is to download new CCCP. If you have a media player...well, good luck getting a firmware update.
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post #59 of 76
1/26/12 at 2:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkstaack View Post

It would be a great resource for the community. I see you use XBMC as a front end (is "front end" is the right terminology?), while I plan on using Windows Media Center in order to control OTA broadcasts. Will these applications encounter the same problems?


Yes, I have a Harmony, but I'll need something that uses RF. I used to use a Pronto remote and spent hundreds of hours customizing it. It could do more than a Harmony, but I like the Harmony's simplicity.

Erm, that bug regarding HDMI Auto-Lipsync affected all my playback, XBMC, MPC-HC, Windows Media Player, Windows Media Center etc. But it was an easy fix when i discovered the cause (just took me a long time to figure it out), any receiver has options to disable that function.
The one regarding auto-refresh rate switching was isolated to XBMC as far as i could tell, i tried a program called Auto-Frequency with Windows Media Player and it worked fine.

Yup, front-end is the terminlogy.

Strictly RF you say? So basically "normal" IR MCE receivers don`t work with the Harmony remotes? I currently have an RF receiver, but it`s for the Lenovo n9501 wireless mini-keyboard i`m using instead of the remote, i don`t think the Harmony will work with that,
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post #60 of 76
1/26/12 at 4:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenEyez View Post

Don`t listen/buy from Assassin, he scams users by replacing internal components of his machines with little guineea pigs that run on threadmills. You need to open up the case and feed them every 6-7 hours or else your machine will crash

This happened to me. I can back up these claims as both true and accurate.
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