TVs with 5.1 Passthrough from HDMI to SPDIF - Page 2

I guess davyo just finds it hard to believe. TVs DO pass Dolby Digital 5.1 through the Optical Output from an external HDMI device. Like I already said, the XBox and PS3 are passing them just fine through a Sony TV.

Definitely 5.1 and not 2.1, separate surround sounds and yes, the display on the Z-5500 front panel clearly says "Dolby Digital" with the little logo.

It is NOT Dolby Pro Logic II or anything of the sort.

Unbelievable, I thought we LONG ago decided it was LESS FILLING, not More Taste!

But OP: It's very simple. I don't have an HDMI switching receiver either but I operate HAPPILY by going: BR -> HDMI -> TV and BR -> SPIF -> RECEIVER. I do have to stuff an additional IR command into my universal remote's macro to switch my receiver to the correct audio input but BIG DEAL!

Yes, I do find it hard to believe that panels/TV's can pass 5.1 via an HDMI connected source,,,, TOSLINK and HDPC copywrite restrictions were put in place to prevent that from happening (dont agree with it, its very stupid and only hurts the consumer).

Just because your display say "Dolby Digital" that does not mean its getting a true 5.1 signal,,,, your Z-5500 might be taking that 2.1 SPDIF signal and creating a 5.1 from it.

As far as "just me" thinking that 5.1 will not pass thru you might want to read some of the other postings on this thread and read most of the postings on this subject here on AVS,,, and also read the postings on other forums such as HiDef forums,,,, you will find many others that share the same opinion.

Cheers
Davyo

Some TV's do in fact pass Dolby Digital 5.1 from HDMI to optical out as my Insignia does it. The easiest way to tell is the read the EDID information from the TV.

Here's the EDID from my Insignia 32":

Monitor #1 [Real-time 0x0021]
Model name............... NS-32E570A11
Manufacturer............. BBY
Plug and Play ID......... BBY0B0B
Serial number............ 1
Manufacture date......... 2010, ISO week 6
Filter driver............ None
-------------------------
EDID revision............ 1.3
Input signal type........ Digital
Color bit depth.......... Undefined
Display type............. RGB color
Screen size.............. 930 x 520 mm (41.9 in)
Power management......... Not supported
Extension blocs.......... 1 (CEA-EXT)
-------------------------
DDC/CI................... Not supported

Color characteristics
Default color space...... Non-sRGB
Display gamma............ 2.20
Red chromaticity......... Rx 0.640 - Ry 0.340
Green chromaticity....... Gx 0.300 - Gy 0.690
Blue chromaticity........ Bx 0.138 - By 0.038
White point (default).... Wx 0.282 - Wy 0.297
Additional descriptors... None

Timing characteristics
Horizontal scan range.... 15-68kHz
Vertical scan range...... 23-71Hz
Video bandwidth.......... 170MHz
CVT standard............. Not supported
GTF standard............. Not supported
Additional descriptors... None
Preferred timing......... Yes
Native/preferred timing.. 1920x1080p at 60Hz (16:9)
Modeline............... "1920x1080" 148.500 1920 2008 2052 2200 1080 1084 1089 1125 +hsync +vsync
Detailed timing #1....... 1360x768p at 60Hz (16:9)
Modeline............... "1360x768" 85.500 1360 1424 1536 1792 768 771 777 795 +hsync +vsync

Standard timings supported
720 x 400p at 70Hz - IBM VGA
640 x 480p at 60Hz - IBM VGA
800 x 600p at 60Hz - VESA
1024 x 768p at 60Hz - VESA
1280 x 1024p at 60Hz - VESA STD

EIA/CEA-861 Information
Revision number.......... 3
IT underscan............. Not supported
Basic audio.............. Supported
YCbCr 4:4:4.............. Supported
YCbCr 4:2:2.............. Supported
Native formats........... 1
Detailed timing #1....... 1280x720p at 60Hz (16:9)
Modeline............... "1280x720" 74.250 1280 1390 1430 1650 720 725 730 750 +hsync +vsync
Detailed timing #2....... 1920x1080i at 60Hz (16:9)
Modeline............... "1920x1080" 74.250 1920 2008 2052 2200 1080 1084 1094 1124 interlace +hsync +vsync
Detailed timing #3....... 720x480p at 60Hz (16:9)
Modeline............... "720x480" 27.000 720 736 798 858 480 489 495 525 -hsync -vsync
Detailed timing #4....... 1920x1080p at 24Hz (16:9)
Modeline............... "1920x1080" 74.250 1920 2558 2602 2750 1080 1084 1089 1125 +hsync +vsync
Detailed timing #5....... 1920x1080p at 60Hz (16:9)
Modeline............... "1920x1080" 138.500 1920 1968 2000 2080 1080 1082 1087 1111 +hsync -vsync

CE video identifiers (VICs) - timing/formats supported
1920 x 1080p at 60Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1) [Native]
720 x 480p at 60Hz - EDTV (16:9, 32:27)
1280 x 720p at 60Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
1920 x 1080i at 60Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
720 x 576p at 50Hz - EDTV (16:9, 64:45)
1280 x 720p at 50Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
1920 x 1080i at 50Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
1920 x 1080p at 50Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
1920 x 1080p at 24Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
720 x 480i at 60Hz - Doublescan (16:9, 32:27)
720 x 576i at 50Hz - Doublescan (16:9, 64:45)
NB: NTSC refresh rate = (Hz*1000)/1001

CE audio data (formats supported)
AC-3 6-channel, 640k max. bit rate at 32/44/48 kHz
LPCM 2-channel, 16/20/24 bit depths at 32/44/48 kHz

CE vendor specific data (VSDB)
IEEE registration number. 0x000C03
CEC physical address..... 1.0.0.0
Supports AI (ACP, ISRC).. Yes
Supports 48bpp........... No
Supports 36bpp........... Yes
Supports 30bpp........... Yes
Supports YCbCr 4:4:4..... Yes
Supports dual-link DVI... No
Maximum TMDS clock....... 225MHz

I've highlighted the important part. In the menu I can set the optical output to output 2.0 PCM but it downsamples everything including my tuner.

ROFL, what? The Z-5500s aren't even capable of doing any sort of thing like that. Closest they get is Dolby Pro Logic II or Stereo x2.

And, like others have already said, it's clearly a 5.1 Dolby Digital stream coming from the TV.

Every channel sounds different and matches up with whatever is going on with the movie and/or game.

For example, center speaker being on for audio. Or a car or gunshots happening from behind you on only ONE speaker, etc.

Yes, your OPINION that this is not possible is just that. An opinion.

What we say is actually happening is FACT.

If you still choose not to believe it, maybe you should buy a new TV... heck even a majorly cheap Sony KDL32EX400 will do, and give it a whirl yourself.

There was a 5.1 passthrough saga in the LG xxLH90 thread. My experience was a bad one. Here's my setup:

STB (SA8300HD) -> HDMI -> 47LH90 -> optical -> AVR

Initially the tv would passthrough DD 5.1, however there was a noticeable audio lag. LG Canada sent over a tech who updated the firmware and reset the EDID.

The audio was now in sync but DD 5.1 was being downmixed to PCM 2.0. LG Canada insisted that the firmware should have fixed the issue but others in the thread confirmed that they had the same problem.

LG now insists that it was never supposed to work but many people with different STBs are able to passthrough 5.1 without any problems...

One of the reasons I have that opinion is because of this cut and paste from the owners manual for my brand new 80" Sharp.

Depending on the connected equipment, audio will not output from the DIGITAL AUDIO OUTPUT terminal in HDMI
connection. In this case, set the audio formats of the connected equipment to PCM, 32/44.1/48 kHz.
Optical digital audio will be output in 2-ch stereo when it is from the external equipment connected to the TV using an HDMI cable.

As far as buying a "new" TV, I do that quite often (as my past postings will show).

Cheers
Davyo

And this is just a limitation of your brand new Sharp. Not a limitation of optical out on all televisions.

i have a vizio vl470m from 2009 and the only way to pass dd5.1(no dts) was thru a secret menu which enabled it and was the way i got 5.1 to my old sony receiver which only had optical and i wanted to switch hdmis from xbox to htpc and bluray player. i still use it to play flac from my comp to my outside spkers which are still connected to sony even though main rec is yamaha i pass audio on to tv along hdmi

My LG 42LK450 definitely only does 2-channel stereo from it's digital out for HDMI sources. DD 5.1 output is reserved for the TV input only. I can say the same for the Samsung LN32D550 and LN32B650 and Panasonic TH-42PZ80U.

I hope "sodaboy" does not see your post,,, he seems to think all TV's can pass 5.1 out of the optical via an HDMI hook-up.

Cheers
Davyo

I never said "all TVs". You're putting words into my mouth.

In fact, I said

... from the first post I made.

Where as your first post in this thread said


And there in lies the problem, your knowledge, or lack of it...

You then went on to say
Which, again, demonstrates your lack of knowledge.

And, just because you're absent of the knowledge doesn't give you any right to say that I've said things I haven't said.

I never said "all TVs" can Dolby Digital 5.1 through optical out, because I didn't say that.

The only one who made a general assumption when it comes to "all TVs" is you, when you said that all TVs can't pass it. Again, read your own quote:


Yeah, you said that. And you're absolutely WRONG.

I mean, you have to be pretty high and mighty to even suggest something like this:
You're not the one with my hardware. You're not the one with my set up. And even to suggest that the Z-5500 even creates some sort of virtual surround then labels it as Dolby Digital 5.1, when that's not even a spec of it (besides the Stereo X2) feature, is absolutely ridiculous.

All I'm going to say is.

Fact: Sony KDL32EX400, XBox 360 or PS3 connected directly to the TV via HDMI (with Dolby Digital set as an output options on both consoles) = Dolby Digital 5.1 Stream output from the Optical Out on the KDL32EX400.

Feel free to call me wrong, say it's impossible, completely bull crap, that I'm making things up or whatever. Quote your 80" Sharp manual one million times, but that's your choice to be ignorant to the facts. You know, that other TVs can do different things, and that's really all I have to say regarding the matter.

It is unlikely that ANY TV will pass 5.1 from HDMI sources and then out to a SPDIF Toslink output. The main reason for this is it would violate the HDCP licensing agreements and standards. It is an unfortunate side affect of the movie industry protecting itself. They don't want original source material from things like BD or DVD players passed through.

Consider part of the issue:


The problem is HDCP (high-bandwidth digital content protection), which is implemented by the HDMI interface. In the case of, say BluRay->HDMI->TV->OpticalOut->AVR; the TV is acting as what the HDCP standard calls a 'repeater' for the audio (receives signal, processes (or not) and then sends it along). The audio must be HDCP encrypted when sent to the next HDCP device, and this is where things fall apart. HDCP is not implemented on the Optical interface. If the signal can't be encrypted, then the audio quality must be downgraded, or not sent at all.

Any implementor of HDCP must pay a royalty and is bound by this license agreement. So you don't have to read the whole thing, here is the pertinent section:

3.3.2.2 DVD-Audio Content may be passed to the following digital outputs and shall accurately transmit Digital CCI and ISRC Information:

3.3.2.2.1 To HDCP protected DVI, HDMI, DisplayPort or UDI outputs as expressly provided by section 5.3 of these Compliance Rules, if the Presentation Device is also a Repeater.
3.3.2.2.2 To Legacy Digital Audio Outputs. Legacy Digital Audio Outputs shall be limited to 1.5 times normal speed, unless the pitch is corrected to the pitch at normal speed. In addition, such outputs shall comply with the following requirements:

(a) Limitation on Sound Quality. Sound quality of Legacy Digital Audio Outputs when playing Linear PCM and Packed PCM streams shall be equivalent to CD-Audio Quality or less.

I don't care about any of this. What I'm telling you happens, does happen. That's it.

If you've about $400, go buy the TV yourself, do an experiment, then return it for a full refund.

A Dolby Digital 5.1 stream that is being fed to the Sony TV through HDMI will be passed through it's Toslink Optical out.

Now, I'm not saying Dolby TrueHD or DTS Master HD, or anything like that. Just the classic Dolby Digital 5.1. Also, the Sony will pass the old DTS audio as well.

I remember specifically the DTS audio being passed through as well, because I watched the Lord of the Rings BluRay on the TV which had DTS and the Sony was bitching about not being able to decode the audio and passed it through to the Z-5500 (which also told me that it was a DTS track being played). I fixed the Sony bitching about it by setting the audio system to just external audio and not TV speakers + external audio system.

In any case of a Dolby Digital 5.1 track or DTS track being in a movie, the stream was passed through to the Z-5500 from the Optical port unmolested. Same thing for games being played on the consoles that used Dolby Digital 5.1

You do realize we are talking about Dolby Digital 5.1 aka dvd audio, not DTS-HD Master audio or Dolby TrueHD. Dolby Digital IS legacy audio, that is why nearly every blu ray/dvd has a digital output (optical or coaxial) that does it.

I hope they realize that. I also pointed this out in my last post.

The old Dolby Digital 5.1 and DTS is the only thing that can be passed through the Sony's optical out from the XBox 360 or PS3, in addition to 2 channel PCM.

I always had my Sony's TV speakers disabled and just set the configuration to "Audio System" in the audio section as well. I don't know if that had anything else to do with it... But yeah, those types of streams worked just fine! The Z-5500's output would read "Dolby Digital", "DTS" or "Stereo" respectively for the stream it encountered from the Sony TV.

Yes. . . I realize you are talking about DD 5.1.

Hey, don't shoot the messenger I'm not arguing. This is just what is provided and is a quote from the licensing agreement for HDCP which goes on and on forever!

The fact is most if not all TVs should not pass DD 5.1 because it gets caught up in the whole HDCP thing. That's all. Some TVs may do DD 5.1 pass through from HDMI to toslink. Most do not and would possibly be subject to fines within the industry. LG TVs for instance, will not pass through DD 5.1 nor will Mitsubishi. . . at least mine don't as well as other owners whose posts I have read.

More proof, not from me: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post21569314

And, actually, a Mitsubishi DLP will do it to. WD65738 most definitely will pass a Dolby Digital 5.1 stream from the XBox360 or PS3 to a receiver through the optical out.

I know, I had one of those as well not more than 1 month ago. (My DLP had my 360 and PS3 hooked up to it directly through HDMI. Optical out cable to my Z-5500's optical input. The DLP was returned for Geometry issues. See http://www.vengefulsoda.com/dlpgeo.jpg And a somewhat soft picture, which was unacceptable for HTPC use.)

Played Saints Row 3 and some other things in full true surround sound. Also watched the Transformers: Dark Side of the Moon in regular Dolby Digital 5.1 (not HD or anything) from the BluRay with surround sound as well.

More proof: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post19815155

And so on and so forth...

You can just search that thread for "Dolby" really and you'll find a number of people who are able to pass through DD5.1 and DTS just fine using a Sony EX500 TV. (Mine was an EX400, but anyway... still worked.)

I have the KDL-46EX400 and it passes DD 5.1 from 360, PS3 and Cable box that are connected via HDMI out via Optical to my receiver just fine. I know 100% that is is true 5.1 as well.

TV is here:

ht tp://store.sony.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&partNumber=KDL46EX400#specifications

I would say that TVs that output DD 5.1 from the digital (optical) out for a HDMI source are the exception, not the rule. The reason for this has been provided in the various posts above. If you have one of those sets that will, good for you, but keep in mind that many sets will never do this.

I 100% agree with you here. During this whole thread, I was only trying to prove that my old Sony TV (and probably just about any recent Sony) will pass it.

Someone kept telling me I was wrong, this isn't possible, and so on, when it actually is quite possible and is actually happening.

Just proving my point.

I know all TVs don't do this. Heck, I had a Panasonic 50" G15 Plasma back in the day that downmixed all to 2.0 PCM through optical out.

All I'm saying is Sony Bravia TVs definitely DO pass DD5.1 and DTS. That is ALL I'm saying... Oh, and my old Mitsubishi 65738 did as well.

Done and done!

And my Mitsubishi LT-46231 does not pass through DD 5.1 from HDMI to toslink to my Boston AVR-7120 when playing a Blu-ray or DVD. So not all will. . . . that's all I said. I think it's a moot point now. Since most newer AVRs either have ARC or can do HDMI pass through..

Good point. What I want to know is why some TVs do support this while others simply can't? It would be interesting to find out the real reason for this and would help explain why some TV manufacturers like Sony are able to support this despite the legal issues.

True. But the OP was looking for a new TV that does the very thing that my television does... I was relaying my experience and knowledge. If he was actually considering the TV and reading the topic, having someone else tell me I'm wrong in the topic would only confuse him. So I thought it was important to prove that I was correct.

The OP can safely buy an EX400 or EX500 Sony TV, but I'd be willing to wager any Sony TV made in 2010 or newer, will do what the OP is looking for. Pass 5.1 audio, though only Dolby Digital or DTS (not DTS-HD or Dolby TrueHD, etc. not even Linear PCM 5.1), through SPDIF from an HDMI source.


No idea, bro. I noticed on the back of my Sony it has some Dolby Digital licensing text, but I think all TVs have that when having an optical out port, right?

If you or I read the whole licensing documents who knows what we would get out of it. I would say it has to do with each company's interpretation of the agreement subject to litigation. More than likely an oversight and the emphasis seems to be (lately) on copying streaming audio/video today rather than what a TV pass through on it's toslink. Not many people copy stuff coming OUT of their TV.

http://forums.astrogaming.com/showth...r-TV-s-OPT-OUT


My samsung PN43D490
passes 5.1 from ps3 and 360 hooked up via hdmi through the tv as well

Well this has all been very interesting. I always thought that 5.1 out via optical thru an HDMI source wasn't possible for reasons pointed out. That's the beauty of these forums. Even us old dogs can learn new tricks. I know my LG can't but it makes no difference to me. I just pass DD 5.1 out via optical from the ATSC tuner for OTA tv and everything else just goes thru the AVR.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1382823

A confirmation of newer Sony TV also passing 5.1 through Optical Out. Only DD 5.1 and DTS, though. Also the person notes in the "Sound" set up on the TV, it needs to be set to "Audio System" and not "Speakers".

I will note on my Sony, I have it set to "Audio System" as well. I never use, nor have ever used, the TV's speakers.

Just some useful information for the OP if he decides to pick up a Sony as well and has trouble getting 5.1 through Optical Out.

(Actually, I wonder where the OP went to? Haha. Anyway!!)

A big thanks to all who reported this capability in the face of so much skepticism. I was a big skeptic myself. I assumed this would never be possible from my past experience and the "copy protection" excuse makers had been using up to now. But I finally tried it from myself and am happy to report my new Sony 55EX500 does indeed pass DD5.1 and DTS from HDMI inputs to optical just fine. I can now use a single optical input on my amp and have removed 4 optical cables from my system and greatly simplified my remote macros.

Agreed,,,,, I am frankly very supprised that there are TV's out in the wild that will pass 5.1 thru the optical,, for the copy protection rules I was as well not thinking it was something that has been able to be done.

But hey,,,, thats what AVS is for, learning new things and having a "friendy debate" about A/V products,,,,, the key words "friendly debate" are directed at "sodaboy".

I am more that willing to admit when I am wrong "soda", you were right and I was wrong, (along with many others) perhaps this win will calm your debate style,,, no reason to get upset or harsh when talking about our common love for the A/V stuff,,, its all in good fun ( hopefully )

Cheers
Davyo