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4K Sony VW 1000 first short Test - Page 5

post #121 of 754
Rich. I quickly scanned Art's review. Everything is in there except fis throw distance. The Firehawk G3 will hotspot as shown in Art's pictures unless the throw is 1.6 or higher. The longer the better. So I can't conclude anything without knowing the throw.

I t should beknown the sparkelies and hot spotting are two completely different things but some tend to use them interchangeably. Which is worse? I think hotspotting.
post #122 of 754
I love you guys but could we keep this thread to the Sony rather than Stewart screens ? Wolfgang posted some real world personal experiences with the 1000 Sony projector ,that only he and Oliver have at this point, and yet there are more posts about folks experiences with various Stewart products !


Art
post #123 of 754
While we babble waiting for more hard info about the 1000, I'll bring up another screen option, the famous Dalite HP. The new 2.4 HP material is even more uniform, smoother, and artifact-free that the original 2.8 version, and has a somewhat wider viewing angle. For it to work, though, it still is best if the pj is mounted not too far above eye level; e.g., mine is a few ft behind my head, and just high enough for the pic to clear my head. IMO, it can't be beat if you can mount it appropriately.

My 144" W screen is 81 ft^2 in 16x9 (as it is when zoomed), but at 2000 lumens will still generate ~ 60 ftL, which is likely too much even for me! But W.Mayer notes that this can be cut to ~ 1100 lumens if the iris is closed down (which will also increase CR); and this is still in high lamp, min throw. If one goes to low lamp, this will probably decrease the lumens ~ 20-30 % more, say to 700-800 lumens; and at this output I would have ~ 20-25 ftL, which I think would be ideal.

So I think that one can deal with the brightness of the 1000 even with an HP screen, provided that it is fairly large.
post #124 of 754
Hopefully, tomorrow we will get shipping notice that Sony has shipped the first batch of these to various dealers in the US. A second shipment is scheduled two weeks later that should be sufficient to fulfill all dealer's present back orders with a few to spare. Over $3 million MSRP in initial orders for a very limited market in a down economy. I woder how many of these Sony will sell worldwide in 2012?

Bill. Its a good thing that you are getting one of these instead of an VPL-HW30ES. Bil Cruce reported in the first paragraph of his review in Wide Screen Review this month that the HW30ES was giving him 550 ft lamberts on his 54 x 96 inch (36 sq ft) 2.4 HP. I ran the numbers assuming 900 ANSI calibrated lumens out of the HW30 based on various calibration reports. 900 x 2.4/36 = 60 ft lamberts. I forgive him his math error, after all its only in the vacinity of a power of 10. I think we better send him that welding helmet.

Sorry Art. Back to our regularly scheduled programming.
post #125 of 754
Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Mayer View Post

just comes up from the adaptive iris test and some 3d test.

say it short i like it a lot!

since it was long time ago that i had a pr. with a adaptive iris (the sony ruby)
i dont know how the last versions work but this inside the vw 1000 works very good.

medium bright sequences looks mostly a bit more bright and as it change
a bit the dynamic in the picture the picture looks more 3d like.

yes i saw in some seq. some clipping in near 100% white but this is a small trade of
and when i rate what improvement the picture gets by using full adaptive iris
i can take easy this small disadvantage.

3d:
ghosting the unit is very very good!
almost nothing visible even when you start the pr. and it was cool.

other lcos pr. produce when you start the pr. a lot of ghosting and even when it gets hot after around 20 min. it have much more ghosting than this vw 1000 at the start!

a big surprise was that my jvc 3d cam with 2x 1920x1080 60i 3d (frame packing for interlace) looks very good as well.
with a other 3d lcos pr. i had 24 p 3d material looks ok ghosting wise but
2x 60i 3d looks bad.
the sony can do this defacto 3d cam standard with 2x 1920x1080 60i 3d as good as they do the 24p 3d!!!

Wolfgang:

I think you spent some time with the Lumis Dynamic Iris, I was just wondering if Sony DI was up to par with the Lumis
post #126 of 754
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 4 View Post

Hopefully, tomorrow we will get shipping notice that Sony has shipped the first batch of these to various dealers in the US. A second shipment is scheduled two weeks later that should be sufficient to fulfill all dealer's present back orders with a few to spare. Over $3 million MSRP in initial orders for a very limited market in a down economy. I woder how many of these Sony will sell worldwide in 2012?

Just let me know when you get 'em!

PS Does 'shipping notice' mean that they are just leaving Japan, or that they will be arriving next day in the US?
post #127 of 754
It means they have shipped from one of several possible Sony warehouses in the United States. I will know more by tomorrow night.
post #128 of 754
It's a big n' beautiful brute, I just wish Sony can get to JVC's native CR soon.

Sony, just buy JVC and be done with it!
post #129 of 754
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post

I love you guys but could we keep this thread to the Sony rather than Stewart screens ? Wolfgang posted some real world personal experiences with the 1000 Sony projector ,that only he and Oliver have at this point, and yet there are more posts about folks experiences with various Stewart products !


Art

thanks art.

yes there is a big section at avs about screens.
post #130 of 754
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Highjinx View Post

It's a big n' beautiful brute, I just wish Sony can get to JVC's native CR soon.

Sony, just buy JVC and be done with it!

its not impossible that they are not to far away from each other.
wait ontill others will post there cr. numbers and lets see how much
a jvc 4k in future will have when they can do a pr. with native at d 65 over 2000 lumen.
post #131 of 754
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LJG View Post

Wolfgang:

I think you spent some time with the Lumis Dynamic Iris, I was just wondering if Sony DI was up to par with the Lumis

i had the lumis just for some days and its long long time ago.

hard for me to remember but what i can see with the sony i like it and i will
never switch it off.
post #132 of 754
Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Mayer View Post

i had the lumis just for some days and its long long time ago.

hard for me to remember but what i can see with the sony i like it and i will
never switch it off.

I guess not. The sheer size of your screen coupled with the brightness that you are getting with 3D is jaw dropping.
Reply
Reply
post #133 of 754
Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Mayer View Post

i had the lumis just for some days and its long long time ago.

hard for me to remember but what i can see with the sony i like it and i will
never switch it off.

That sure sounds good.....I guess Sony was the inventor of the DI and kept improving it.

How does it work with fade to black, does it shut down completely or near completely?
post #134 of 754
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonHoyaFan View Post

Where did you get that idea?

A 12' wide scope screen is 81 sq ft (16x9) surface area. A 1.0 gain screen gives you 24 ftL at 2000 lumens with a new bulb and 14 ftL asuming a 40% light drop from.

The DCI spec calls for 14 ftL in a dark room.

But that's in 2d full panel image with no zooming. If those were the final numbers they would be fine, but when factoring in zooming with associated light drop at 2d scope ratio or with 3d zooming and active shutter light drop...the ST100 could produce a fairly dim image in these two scenarios.
post #135 of 754
http://www.avforums.com/forums/16284042-post10.html

UK Dealer comparing Sony 1000 - RS55 - Sim 2........
post #136 of 754
Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Rex View Post

But that's in 2d full panel image with no zooming. If those were the final numbers they would be fine, but when factoring in zooming with associated light drop at 2d scope ratio or with 3d zooming and active shutter light drop...the ST100 could produce a fairly dim image in these two scenarios.

The calculation is based on the 16x9 image so zooming is already accounted for, 81 ft2 for 16x9 and 60 ft2 for 'scope.

One person's "fairly dim" is another person's "very bright" so just do the math for your requirements and be done with it.

The DCI spec for 2D is 14 ftL +-3. The de facto 3D spec is 3.5 ftL to 5.5 ftL.
post #137 of 754
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin 3000 View Post

http://www.avforums.com/forums/16284042-post10.html

UK Dealer comparing Sony 1000 - RS55 - Sim 2........

This review doesn't tell much IMO.
post #138 of 754
Got it...my mistake.
post #139 of 754
Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post

This review doesn't tell much IMO.

It makes me skeptical of that guy's opinions to be honest. He claims he sees more detail in the Sony. How can that be possible when he is not using 4k sources? Maybe what he really means is that the Sony does a great job scaling material to 4k. I can accept that.

I'm looking forward to seeing one of these myself.
post #140 of 754
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawguy View Post

It makes me skeptical of that guy's opinions to be honest. He claims he sees more detail in the Sony. How can that be possible when he is not using 4k sources? Maybe what he really means is that the Sony does a great job scaling material to 4k. I can accept that.

I'm looking forward to seeing one of these myself.

The whole review is a mess. I ignored it....
post #141 of 754
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Highjinx View Post

That sure sounds good.....I guess Sony was the inventor of the DI and kept improving it.

How does it work with fade to black, does it shut down completely or near completely?

my concern was that the iris cost lumen thats why i try it late.

as my almost 7 meter wide screen(gain 1.0) is very big and i like it bright i cant allows to lost lumen with the iris.

i was surprised to see that in moderate bright seq.(casino rojal chapter 5)
i see a improvement in brightness not the other way!

100% white will not increase but in many seq. i can see more brightness and
i also can measure it.

the casino rojal bd i use all the time for testing not show very very dark
seq. but i will try it later.
from when i press stopp and see what the di did i got the feeling that the picture must be very very dark before this iris will close down.

as the try to stack for 2d two units to double the lumen fails (you cant get a good match over the whole screen) i now have to deside if
i will use the vw 1000 for 2d and if i can live with the 7.4 ftl i have with a new lamp.
i the past i watch with the sony qualia with only 5.6ftl but that was
before i got the high lumen 4k dlps.

so seems the 4k dlp was even at low lamp to bright for 2d (70 ftl!)and the
sony vw 1000 is a bit to dim for my tast now.

lets see what i will do.

my screen is simply to big
post #142 of 754
Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Mayer View Post

my concern was that the iris cost lumen thats why i try it late.

as my almost 7 meter wide screen(gain 1.0) is very big and i like it bright i cant allows to lost lumen with the iris.

i was surprised to see that in moderate bright seq.(casino rojal chapter 5)
i see a improvement in brightness not the other way!

100% white will not increase but in many seq. i can see more brightness and
i also can measure it.

the casino rojal bd i use all the time for testing not show very very dark
seq. but i will try it later.
from when i press stopp and see what the di did i got the feeling that the picture must be very very dark before this iris will close down.

as the try to stack for 2d two units to double the lumen fails (you cant get a good match over the whole screen) i now have to deside if
i will use the vw 1000 for 2d and if i can live with the 7.4 ftl i have with a new lamp.
i the past i watch with the sony qualia with only 5.6ftl but that was
before i got the high lumen 4k dlps.

so seems the 4k dlp was even at low lamp to bright for 2d (70 ftl!)and the
sony vw 1000 is a bit to dim for my tast now.

lets see what i will do.

my screen is simply to big

I really appreciate you sharing this info with us. How do you think this projector will work with a 2.35:1 141" wide screen with a gain of 1.3 and a long throw? Do you think zoomed 3D will be bright enough to be real good? How about 2D?
post #143 of 754
Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Mayer View Post

my concern was that the iris cost lumen thats why i try it late.

as my almost 7 meter wide screen(gain 1.0) is very big and i like it bright i cant allows to lost lumen with the iris.

i was surprised to see that in moderate bright seq.(casino rojal chapter 5)
i see a improvement in brightness not the other way!

100% white will not increase but in many seq. i can see more brightness and
i also can measure it.

the casino rojal bd i use all the time for testing not show very very dark
seq. but i will try it later.
from when i press stopp and see what the di did i got the feeling that the picture must be very very dark before this iris will close down.

as the try to stack for 2d two units to double the lumen fails (you cant get a good match over the whole screen) i now have to deside if
i will use the vw 1000 for 2d and if i can live with the 7.4 ftl i have with a new lamp.
i the past i watch with the sony qualia with only 5.6ftl but that was
before i got the high lumen 4k dlps.

so seems the 4k dlp was even at low lamp to bright for 2d (70 ftl!)and the
sony vw 1000 is a bit to dim for my tast now.

lets see what i will do.

my screen is simply to big

Thanks for the great reports! It sounds like a fantastic machine.

Given the nearly 2,000 lumens with native on/off in around the 20,000:1 range, one thing that may concern me is the brightness of the absolute black level (0 IRE full field pattern) even with the DI on. Can you measure this out of the pj lens and see how much light is coming out under these conditions with the lamp on LOW?
post #144 of 754
I think the UK guy is comparing the Sim2 double Lumis passive stack using the Infitec narrow band color filters and glasses. To me, this Infitec 3D delivery system is the best method available for 3D. Of course you could buy about four of the Sony VPL-vw1000Es at US retail for the MSRP of the Sim2 double 3D Lumis stack. I would think two of the Sonys, one for the left eye image and one for the right, running using the Infitec system (I think one can buy the two filters, several pairs of the best Infitec glasses, and color compensation box from the US importer distributor for around $10K) would be a fairer comparison for 3D. But that would be a DIY hassle and big boys don't want hassles. To the rescue, just bump your screen size up to say 24 ft wide to become the screen size leader for this thread, buy a pair of the Sonys and get the Sim Lumis 3D stack for your occasional 3D needs. I considered doing this but even disregarding certain financial budgetary considerations, I can't fit even fit a 7M screen let alone a 24 ft wide one into my home theater.

We haven't even cracked the surface of possibilities regarding multiple Sonys here.

From the great movie, the Graduate, let me whisper just one err two words into your ear, EDGE BLENDING (plastic was so 60's), so much better than trying to align two sets of 4096 x 2160 on top of each other.

Occasionally we get posts that contain a seminal line and one of Mr Mayer's posts contains one that could rival the famous post by a US Qualia owner who said he would never get or need another projector and that they would have to pry it, when he dies, from his cold, wet, clammy hands.

Mr. Mayer's line is much more subtle and classy, "[i] will never switch it off."

Thank you for sharing you impressions Wolfgang and for answering our questions. But even more, thanks for sharing your joy with us.
post #145 of 754
[quote=AV Science Sales 4;21556475]I think the UK guy is comparing the Sim2 double Lumis passive stack using the Infitec narrow band color filters and glasses. To me, this Infitec 3D delivery system is the best method available for 3D. Of course you could buy about four of the Sony VPL-vw1000Es at US retail for the MSRP of the Sim2 double 3D Lumis stack. QUOTE]


Mark,
I just wonder how you read that he was comparing to a double Lumis passive stack? It seemed to me he was saying that both projectors were great but he preferred the Sim2 3D Solo(still more than twice the price of the Sony).

"Now my only other though is can it match the Sim2 3Ds my favourite projector on resolution and performance. I feel that for everything this amazing new Sony projector can offer is truly stunning. But, comparing VPl-VW1000ES to the 3Ds is like comparing a van gogh against a Lowry. Both are exceptional in their own rights, but the Van Gogh has something, which the Lowry will never be able to muster and that is so hard to quantfy. In our Demo room the Sim2 just has something that the Sony could not deliver. And if you're ever lucky enough to see both projectors in the same environment, you will understand exactly what I'm saying."
post #146 of 754
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randall Morton View Post

... "comparing VPl-VW1000ES to the 3Ds is like comparing a van gogh against a Lowry. Both are exceptional in their own rights, but the Van Gogh has something, which the Lowry will never be able to muster and that is so hard to quantfy."

I wonder what the magic pixie dust could be? Here is the Cine4Home review of the SIM2 3DS for those interested in more quantitative data

http://www.cine4home.de/tests/projek...Lumis_Test.htm
post #147 of 754
Have any of you with a 1000 determined how much the brightness is reduced in low lamp mode? I would guess 20 to 30%, but would be useful to know.
post #148 of 754
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonHoyaFan View Post

I wonder what the magic pixie dust could be? Here is the Cine4Home review of the SIM2 3DS for those interested in more quantitative data

http://www.cine4home.de/tests/projek...Lumis_Test.htm

Comparing the Sim2 and Sony with W Mayer's numbers vs. cine4home's numbers, the Sony wins in brightness and native/dynamic on/off contrast ratio. This leaves ANSI CR(intra-scene CR) and most likely the Sim2 wins this battle. I think the jury is still out as to which of these projectors has the better 2D picture.

For Sony to even be compared to the Sim2 3D Solo(over twice the price of the Sony) is quite an achievement.
post #149 of 754
Wolfgang,

thank you very much for sharing your experiences. I considered the Barco (2k/4k) as most likely uograde path for me but the Sony certainly is a very interesting option.

The trouble I have with the VW 1000 is input frame rate. I would use a HTPC setup for playback. Hopefully we will see a 4k distribution format by 2013. In both cases I NEED the capability to input frame rates of more than the 24Hz @ 4k the Sony supports (atm). I think right now it is limited by what HDMI 1.4 can provide. But a 48Hz (The Hobbit), 50Hz and 60Hz (Avatar 2-3) input at 4k seems an essential feature in the not too distant future.

Do you have any information from Sony if their input board will be upgraded to support these faster frame rates in an upcoming revision?

Thank you and best regards from Austria,
Walter
post #150 of 754
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLion View Post

I think right now it is limited by what HDMI 1.4 can provide. But a 48Hz (The Hobbit), 50Hz and 60Hz (Avatar 2-3) input at 4k seems an essential feature in the not too distant future.

"Home Theater" said this in their review :

Sony made a splash at CEDIA by announcing its new VPL-VW1000ES, a 4K projector that will accept true 4K 2D material (at resolutions of 3840 x 2160/24p, 3840 x 2160/ 25p, 3840 x 2160/30p, and 4096 x 2160/24p—with additional rates possible in the future
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