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4K Sony VW 1000 first short Test - Page 6

post #151 of 754
1/27/12 at 10:58am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Withrow View Post

I really appreciate you sharing this info with us. How do you think this projector will work with a 2.35:1 141" wide screen with a gain of 1.3 and a long throw? Do you think zoomed 3D will be bright enough to be real good? How about 2D?

ben i play now the last 4 days till early mornig every day with the units
and my family need me back.

i have the plan to measure light out in max. long throw may in between as well and i expect a huge
light drop in the bigger than 30% range.
lets say its 35% than the 1300 lumen at your 7.2 qm screen at 1.3 gain will have around 21 ftl so not any problem at all.
even with 30% lamp down you have almost 15 ftl!
thats for 2d.

in 3d that will be dim but ok i guess.

lets wait for my numbers but dont know today or in few days....
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post #152 of 754
1/27/12 at 11:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Mayer View Post

ben i play now the last 4 days till early mornig every day with the units
and my family need me back.

i have the plan to measure light out in max. long throw may in between as well and i expect a huge
light drop in the bigger than 30% range.
lets say its 35% than the 1300 lumen at your 7.2 qm screen at 1.3 gain will have around 21 ftl so not any problem at all.
even with 30% lamp down you have almost 15 ftl!
thats for 2d.

in 3d that will be dim but ok i guess.

lets wait for my numbers but dont know today or in few days....

Any chance you could quickly comment on how loud the unit is on high lamp? If I end up at mid throw it would be quite close to me...thanks for all your input!!!!
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post #153 of 754
1/27/12 at 11:03am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

Thanks for the great reports! It sounds like a fantastic machine.

Given the nearly 2,000 lumens with native on/off in around the 20,000:1 range, one thing that may concern me is the brightness of the absolute black level (0 IRE full field pattern) even with the DI on. Can you measure this out of the pj lens and see how much light is coming out under these conditions with the lamp on LOW?

yes i did it today but my calibratet lux meter min. they can measure was
0,1 lux.
under this condition i found bigger than 200.000:1 but i cant say how much bigger the cr. is.
may guess was that it will be a lot bigger but to be honest i dont think anybody can reproduce it at his setup as you need to wear a black t-shirt
as a white t-shirt destroy you all of this hight numbers.
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post #154 of 754
1/27/12 at 11:04am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 4 View Post

Thank you for sharing you impressions Wolfgang and for answering our questions. But even more, thanks for sharing your joy with us.

thanks mark for you nice words.
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post #155 of 754
1/27/12 at 11:11am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

Have any of you with a 1000 determined how much the brightness is reduced in low lamp mode? I would guess 20 to 30%, but would be useful to know.

please take a look at post number 41 from oliver.
i measure about the same.
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post #156 of 754
1/27/12 at 11:22am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLion View Post

Wolfgang,

thank you very much for sharing your experiences. I considered the Barco (2k/4k) as most likely uograde path for me but the Sony certainly is a very interesting option.

The trouble I have with the VW 1000 is input frame rate. I would use a HTPC setup for playback. Hopefully we will see a 4k distribution format by 2013. In both cases I NEED the capability to input frame rates of more than the 24Hz @ 4k the Sony supports (atm). I think right now it is limited by what HDMI 1.4 can provide. But a 48Hz (The Hobbit), 50Hz and 60Hz (Avatar 2-3) input at 4k seems an essential feature in the not too distant future.

Do you have any information from Sony if their input board will be upgraded to support these faster frame rates in an upcoming revision?

Thank you and best regards from Austria,
Walter

audio vision the leading home cinema magazine in germany was told from
sony that the inputboards from the vw 1000 are upgradable.

so far i know the new hdmi 2.0 standard will support 4096x2160 till to 60p
and this will be at the market in about one year.

may guess is that this new inputboard will comes when the chips for the
hmdi 2.0 are ready.
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post #157 of 754
1/27/12 at 11:24am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifiaudio2 View Post

Any chance you could quickly comment on how loud the unit is on high lamp? If I end up at mid throw it would be quite close to me...thanks for all your input!!!!

its very quiet!
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post #158 of 754
1/27/12 at 11:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Mayer View Post

my concern was that the iris cost lumen thats why i try it late.

as my almost 7 meter wide screen(gain 1.0) is very big and i like it bright i cant allows to lost lumen with the iris.

i was surprised to see that in moderate bright seq.(casino rojal chapter 5)
i see a improvement in brightness not the other way!

100% white will not increase but in many seq. i can see more brightness and
i also can measure it.

the casino rojal bd i use all the time for testing not show very very dark
seq. but i will try it later.
from when i press stopp and see what the di did i got the feeling that the picture must be very very dark before this iris will close down.

as the try to stack for 2d two units to double the lumen fails (you cant get a good match over the whole screen) i now have to deside if
i will use the vw 1000 for 2d and if i can live with the 7.4 ftl i have with a new lamp.
i the past i watch with the sony qualia with only 5.6ftl but that was
before i got the high lumen 4k dlps.

so seems the 4k dlp was even at low lamp to bright for 2d (70 ftl!)and the
sony vw 1000 is a bit to dim for my tast now.

lets see what i will do.

my screen is simply to big

Thanks Wolfgang.

Bright is good. The Sony on a 100" screen with 3d should be super!

Perhaps the globes off the Barco's, a major bundle of fibre optics, good cooling, fed to the Sonys....on your 7m screen .
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post #159 of 754
1/27/12 at 12:43pm
Thread Starter 
please not aks me how i can get it but i can measure a third unit.

2010 lumen at 4096x2160
cr. 10710:1

so for me its clear the vw 1000 have (if no bug is inside)
over 2000 lumen and around 11.000:1 cr.

thats better than the best case speculations till some weeks ago i can read
at avs.
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post #160 of 754
1/27/12 at 12:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Mayer View Post

yes i did it today but my calibratet lux meter min. they can measure was
0,1 lux.
under this condition i found bigger than 200.000:1 but i cant say how much bigger the cr. is.
may guess was that it will be a lot bigger but to be honest i dont think anybody can reproduce it at his setup as you need to wear a black t-shirt
as a white t-shirt destroy you all of this hight numbers.

Thanks. Do you have a way to read this from up close at the lens as cd/m2? I can imagine how beautiful and bright the picture is and the good native CR. However it seems with all those lumens the black floor may look rather high (such as during fade to black scenes).
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post #161 of 754
1/27/12 at 12:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Mayer View Post

please not aks me how i can get it but i can measure a third unit.

2010 lumen at 4096x2160
cr. 10710:1

so for me its clear the vw 1000 have (if no bug is inside)
over 2000 lumen and around 11.000:1 cr.

thats better than the best case speculations till some weeks ago i can read
at avs.

Thanks. How about in low lamp?
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post #162 of 754
1/27/12 at 1:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

Thanks. How about in low lamp?

Wolfgang pointed me back to post #41, with low lamp (same other conditions) giving ~ 1500 lumens; he said that his results were about the same. Nice.
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post #163 of 754
1/27/12 at 1:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Withrow View Post

I really appreciate you sharing this info with us. How do you think this projector will work with a 2.35:1 141" wide screen with a gain of 1.3 and a long throw? Do you think zoomed 3D will be bright enough to be real good? How about 2D?

Ben, how long is your projector's throw going to be?
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post #164 of 754
1/27/12 at 3:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Mayer View Post

please not aks me how i can get it but i can measure a third unit.

2010 lumen at 4096x2160
cr. 10710:1

so for me its clear the vw 1000 have (if no bug is inside)
over 2000 lumen and around 11.000:1 cr.

thats better than the best case speculations till some weeks ago i can read
at avs.

Thanks again, Wolfgang, for the good news. Man O man, this is getting me juiced!

With my present RS20, and a large-ish screen (though not in present company; 64 ft^2 in 16x9, and 81ft^2 when zoomed for 2.35), I run in high lamp, max zoom, and iris wide open, so I'm sure I don't get more than 10K:1 CR, and probably less. With the 1000 producing 2000 lumens with 11k:1 CR (and 1500 lumens in low lamp, and higher CR), with its excellent DI on top of this, it's going to be a dramatic change!
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post #165 of 754
1/27/12 at 3:12pm
[quote=Randall Morton;21556651]
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 4 View Post

I think the UK guy is comparing the Sim2 double Lumis passive stack using the Infitec narrow band color filters and glasses. To me, this Infitec 3D delivery system is the best method available for 3D. Of course you could buy about four of the Sony VPL-vw1000Es at US retail for the MSRP of the Sim2 double 3D Lumis stack. QUOTE]


Mark,
I just wonder how you read that he was comparing to a double Lumis passive stack? It seemed to me he was saying that both projectors were great but he preferred the Sim2 3D Solo(still more than twice the price of the Sony).

"Now my only other though is can it match the Sim2 3Ds my favourite projector on resolution and performance. I feel that for everything this amazing new Sony projector can offer is truly stunning. But, comparing VPl-VW1000ES to the 3Ds is like comparing a van gogh against a Lowry. Both are exceptional in their own rights, but the Van Gogh has something, which the Lowry will never be able to muster and that is so hard to quantfy. In our Demo room the Sim2 just has something that the Sony could not deliver. And if you're ever lucky enough to see both projectors in the same environment, you will understand exactly what I'm saying."

It could be as you say. But then again He says Sim2 3Ds and Sim2 considers the Lumis 3D stack to be one projector.
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post #166 of 754
1/27/12 at 3:54pm
But no CMS!!!
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post #167 of 754
1/27/12 at 4:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by donaldk View Post

But no CMS!!!

Have Radiance, Will Calibrate.
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post #168 of 754
1/27/12 at 4:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

Thanks again, Wolfgang, for the good news. Man O man, this is getting me juiced!

With my present RS20, and a large-ish screen (though not in present company; 64 ft^2 in 16x9, and 81ft^2 when zoomed for 2.35), I run in high lamp, max zoom, and iris wide open, so I'm sure I don't get more than 10K:1 CR, and probably less. With the 1000 producing 2000 lumens with 11k:1 CR (and 1500 lumens in low lamp, and higher CR), with its excellent DI on top of this, it's going to be a dramatic change!

According to Cine4Home RS20/HD750

New globe, High/D65 , max zoom, iris 0, Lumen output 840 & CR 24700:1
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post #169 of 754
1/27/12 at 4:47pm
Thread Starter 
this is the last measurment i do.

i measure how much decrease is in lumen out when you adjust
different zoom position and how much cr. gain in this position.

i measure 3 position.

full wide (biggest picture at 4096x2160)
1.27:1 2105 lumen at 10755:1 cr.

in the middle of the lens
2.05:1 1778 lumen -15,5% cr. 14620:1 +36%

2.76:1 smallest picture the optic can do (please note in 3840x2160 it have around 2.9 :1 or so!)
1457 lumen -30,7% cr.17020:1 + 58.3%

as this all is with full open iris and no di.

my guess is that there will be easy
cr. in the same range possible other lcos pr. offers at least when other people will measure more cr.

next report will be when i have my 4k computer some day next week but there i will not take any measurments i will post how the picture looks.
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post #170 of 754
1/27/12 at 5:32pm
[quote=AV Science Sales 4;21559016]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randall Morton View Post


It could be as you say. But then again He says Sim2 3Ds and Sim2 considers the Lumis 3D stack to be one projector.

The reference here is to the sim2 3ds (solo) this dealer isnt far from me and its where i purchased my jvc 750 (rs20) pj
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post #171 of 754
1/27/12 at 6:36pm
So can the 1,000,000:1 CR with DI enabled be realised?
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post #172 of 754
1/27/12 at 6:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Highjinx View Post

According to Cine4Home RS20/HD750

New globe, High/D65 , max zoom, iris 0, Lumen output 840 & CR 24700:1

Thanks for looking this up. Interesting that these #'s are almost the same as for the new RS55 under these conditions (920 lumens, 26K:1 CR).

My lamp is pretty near the end of its life--< 300 lumens--so that is probably why things are beginning to look a bit drab. Probably should get a new one before I pass it off to my daughter and son-in-law.
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post #173 of 754
1/27/12 at 7:16pm
[quote=Billybobjimbob;21559586]
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 4 View Post


The reference here is to the sim2 3ds (solo) this dealer isnt far from me and its where i purchased my jvc 750 (rs20) pj

Thanks for clearing this up. Says a lot for the Solo and the proprietary 3D delivery technology Sim2 developed and put in there.
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post #174 of 754
1/27/12 at 7:27pm
Looks like the machines will start shipping the beginning of the week. I talked to the editor of a major rag today which has a review underway. They started it with a pre production o but they will get a production machine next week and that will be the one reviewed. I ordered up my 100 Stewart Fabric. I know bi;l wants me to use the HP2.4 and my machine will be mounted venter height on my screen at eye level but I think 2.4 gain might be a little bright on my 54 x 96 screen cranking out over 130 ft lamberts, then again in 3D that would be about 20 ft lamberts. Masybe I should just get a 6.0 gain Silverstar and do a JoeRod in my HT.
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post #175 of 754
1/27/12 at 7:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 4 View Post

Looks like the machines will start shipping the beginning of the week. I talked to the editor of a major rag today which has a review underway. They started it with a pre production o but they will get a production machine next week and that will be the one reviewed. I ordered up my 100 Stewart Fabric. I know bi;l wants me to use the HP2.4 and my machine will be mounted venter height on my screen at eye level but I think 2.4 gain might be a little bright on my 54 x 96 screen cranking out over 130 ft lamberts, then again in 3D that would be about 20 ft lamberts. Masybe I should just get a 6.0 gain Silverstar and do a JoeRod in my HT.

I'd stay away from a SS; too many sparkies. The HP2.4 is as smooth as cream. My pj is at min throw, and in low lamp the 1000 will produce 50+ ftL for 128x72 (16x9) and 40+ ftL for 144x61 (2.35).
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post #176 of 754
1/27/12 at 8:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

I'd stay away from a SS; too many sparkies. The HP2.4 is as smooth as cream. My pj is at min throw, and in low lamp the 1000 will produce 50+ ftL for 128x72 (16x9) and 40+ ftL for 144x61 (2.35).

We love our Silverstar! We can keep the lights on pretty high and still see the action perfectly. Comes in handy for those crazy Sundays! What are sparklies?
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post #177 of 754
1/27/12 at 9:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

We love our Silverstar! We can keep the lights on pretty high and still see the action perfectly. Comes in handy for those crazy Sundays! What are sparklies?

Glad that you like it, Joe. That is one thing that is so neat about this hobby--there's something for everyone's taste and situation.
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post #178 of 754
1/27/12 at 9:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 4 View Post

It means they have shipped from one of several possible Sony warehouses in the United States. I will know more by tomorrow night.

So what did you find out? I don't think your post from earlier mentions all you were expecting to find out...or maybe that is all you were going to find out. I guess maybe I was hoping for an e-mail verifying what batch I'm in...
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post #179 of 754
1/27/12 at 9:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 4 View Post

Looks like the machines will start shipping the beginning of the week. I talked to the editor of a major rag today which has a review underway. They started it with a pre production o but they will get a production machine next week and that will be the one reviewed. I ordered up my 100 Stewart Fabric. I know bi;l wants me to use the HP2.4 and my machine will be mounted venter height on my screen at eye level but I think 2.4 gain might be a little bright on my 54 x 96 screen cranking out over 130 ft lamberts, then again in 3D that would be about 20 ft lamberts. Masybe I should just get a 6.0 gain Silverstar and do a JoeRod in my HT.

Does this mean you will be receiving your first batch by the end of the week?
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post #180 of 754
1/27/12 at 10:10pm
Wolfgang, thanks for going ahead and providing those numbers. Very helpful to me and I'm sure others.

G-Rex, keep in mind that the throw ratio is different at the different zoom positions when the screen and throw distance are fixed. As such, the smaller image which needs less light will correspond to the longer TR and lower lumen output. The larger image which needs more light will correspond to a shorter TR and higher lumen output. This won't make up for all of the light lost by projecting black bars above and below the screen for the 2.35:1 image, but it should help to a significant, or at least noticable, degree. For example, you may have 1500 for the 2.76 TR of a 1.85 image and 1775 for the 2 ratio of a 2.35 image. This extra output has to be helpful - I hope

In response to your earlier query, my throw distance will be approx. 22.5".
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