4K Sony VW 1000 first short Test - Page 7

When we get shipping notice of how many are coming in the first batch and that they are shipped, I will call for cc etc for those who have preordered. Enough for all would be by the second batch a few weeks later. I am just not calling, nor is Mike G for customers from whom he took preorders, until we get shipping conformation. No one in the US has got one yet including the reviewers and obviously because of different transit times so dealers will get them perhaps a few days earlier than a more distant dealers. And then my review sample will then have to come from our location in upstate NY so I doubt I will have mine before a week from now assuming Sony starts shipping on Monday or so. And then I will get on the road after a few days of familarization and calibration and in my home demonstrations visiting some of our customers for an inhome demo. If anyone on the preorder list wants to give us their CC info now, and several already have, I would be glad to take it now but no wire transfers or checks please until we confirnation that yours is on the way to us. Mike and I are pretty much available all the time to take your calls.

And for what its worth, I have never liked the Silver Star which has been around more many many years. If I had a large screen and need light, I ewould elect a HP over it any day especially considering that its real gain, the Silver Star, was closer to 3 than 6. Having a 36 sq foiot machine and getting a 2000 ANSI lumens Sony, a high gain scren would be the last thing I would do in my black pit theater. I am going from my 1.3 gain Studeotec 130 to Studeotec 100. And I verified with Stewart what I already knew, the various descriptive names of of the Stewart Fabric, Snow___ 100 Studeotec 100 etc are all the same Stewart 100 fabric material. And yes, that material does have some optical gain spray material misted on to the near 1.0 gain white substrate material to obtain an absolute gain of one. Another great choice for me would be the Da-lite JKP Affinity 0.9 gain material but I obviously can not buy that for my Stewart 4 way masking frame and I am not inclined to try and buy snaps, punch it myself and fit it to my Stewart frame.

W.Mayer, when you get the PC with the Radeon HD 7970 graphics card... let me know if you need any native 4K footage, I might be able to help you there. And I don't mean "4K" off the YouTube or Vimeo.

Wolfgang, some very valuable information from you thanks.

Just wondering, if you were to shrink the image size when using the Sony so you get similar brightness to your Barco and sat closer so the viewing angle is similar, does the extra CR(5x?) from the Sony make a difference to your eyes?

Thanks for sharing all your info Wolfgang. I know it is a lot of fun playing with your new toys, but I also know it is a lot of work to share your info. There are many here, including myself, that appreciate your efforts.

Great info. With that screen size we just are curious of pitures of the rest of your cinema...

Wolfgang,

thank you so much. You are in a very unique position of being able to see options like 4k Barcos and the Sony head to head. And sharing this experience is much appreciated.

I had the pleasure to visit our friend Norman and see his 2k Barco setup. The brute force light output is certainly an all new experience - like watching a very, very bright 4m plasma. The only issue is On/Off contrast - but you get used to 2000:1. So much light is great - but do we need 40+ ft/l on our home screens? Is it worth to make other compromises for the great light output of Barcos (size, noise, contrast, need for a separate room with heat management, ...)? well, everybody has to decide for himself. It all depends on how large you make your screen to make use of the light output of Barcos.

I consider 2000 ANSI lumen @D65 of the Sony a great sweetspot. On the other hand I prefer the "look of DLP", always have. And between a High-End Sim2 and a similar priced Barco it is hardly a though decision.

What I would like to now is if the Sony has a fully sealed lightpath? That is for me one of the great benefits of Barco. There is hardly anything more frustrating than ever decreasing performance (contrast/"clarity") due to dust collecting in the lightpath/lense.

Wolfgang

Great work, this statement says volumes

"from what i saw i think the sony in 2d with the reality creation offers excluding the lumen the better picture over all for 2d 2k material.
thats why i may use it only for 2d."

Secrets of Home Theater. A thread? A new forum? I have heard that phrase some where before. But I mean no offense, I know how much knowledge Wolfgang has, his willingness to share, and how much we benefit.

So here is today's secret. Get a Sony and keep your screen size down to a palty16 ft wide though that recommendation is obviously screen gain and aspect ratio tied. Many of the big boys here won't admit but they actually have sceen sizes less than 16 ft wide so most should be good to go. I having a paltry 8 ft wide screen but could only reach about 50 ft lamberts filling the 1.78 screen with 3940 x 2160 of all those 4096 x 2160 pixels when my 1.00 gain Studeotec comes in. Maybe I should stick with my 1.3 gain because that would get me close to 70 ft lamberts. Actually its pretty easy to swap them out so I guess I will experiment. I suspect I will find 70 ft lamberts or so a tad too bright and I would prefer 50 over the 65 that I would get with the 1.3. I am actually concerned that at present I find 20 ft lamberts too bright and will need to ramp this sucker down by closing the iris down and using ND filters. ND filters are not a free lunch though and will cause a minor reduction in system MTF. What problems but nothing as serious as not having a bright enough picture to make one happy. And they say big boys just don't have problems like the small boys do. If they only knew.

Now let's talk a little about Sony's Digital Reality Creation (DRC) or in other words Sony's "real time" digital signal processing algorithms for to create 4K. Of course, no signal processing is really real time but will let that slip, its unimportant as long as one has adjustable audio delay built into the audio processing. DRC was first coined by Sony in 1997 to describe its first built into a TV line doubler. It had three modes back then.

Now Sony is using the same term to describe its 4K scaler/deinterlacer. In some publications Sony describes it as a new chip, and in others it is called an algorithm. It is actually I think a number algorithms and stored on some sort of encrypted programmable chip. Obviously, depending on the input resolution fed the projector, the processor will select the correct algorithms and this selection would be dependent on how the user wishes the projector to display 1.78 input source frames. But there of course is more. The No Baloney folks have offered the uses two uses addressable controls to fine tune its deinterlacer/scaler. And these controls are depicted as a 2D, xy axis matric with the x axis being the digital reality control and controlling the amount of detail ome sees and the y axis being called the digital clarity control and controlling the smoothness of the picture. These are described as controlling the digital reality palette and please don't for a minute confuse this with with color space palettes. I have never heard exactly what these controls do and they have always been a source of confusion to Joe Consumer as well as many video professionals since they obviouslt don't adjust the nuber of pixels created from the source but I suspect do adjust the actual sharpness applied to the scaled lines added by the scaling.Perhaps this is the control labeled reality. I have never figured out the label reality or detail. It might hasve something to do with deinterlacing where one can trade how many lines are used for different purposes and whhere for example lines can be used for detailed at the cost of additional deinterlacing artifacts such as comb filtering. But I just can't get a handle on what the reality control does re scaled images. Obviously the controls let the user address ertasin terms in particular algorithms. Perhaps some can address actually what these two controls do and just not repeat what the manual says. Obviously the opportunity exists for better scaling by third parties but the ful benefits of third party imprtovements would have to await the allowance of 4K 60 frame input. Thoughts?

As for using two processors in tandem (one in the Oppo and then the one in the Sony, that can't be a good idea).

Another thought do you think edge blending might ba a possibility with 2 Sony's?

Hi Lon. I actually suggested edge blending in an earlier post. Its rather easy with digital projectors compared to blending two anlogue devices and it is routinely done in the commercial sector, more or less just buy a box.

If you are interested in seeing one of these let me know. I will be doing some in home demoes of this unit in the CT/NY area in February though I won't be able to demonstrate 4K source material.

Lumagen has hinted that they are considering an upgraded Radiance that would upconvert 1080p to 4K. Anybody know any more about this?

Yes. But my lips are sealed. And I don't know a lot more than has been publically leaked anyway (things such as cost, trade in programs, when it will be ready etc., no one knows yet).

My Titan has edge blending built in as did my Christie HD6K-M. The 1000ES will be short of Lumens for my taste as mt 2.35 Image is 14' wide....

I remember that 300 plus pound beauty and your current projector has a lot going for it even though it isn't 4K. If someone gave me a choice of picking between the Sony and yours, it wouldn't take me a split second to take your machine.

Mark:

Wolfgang, who has a great videophile eye, and whom I trust implicitly is suggesting that the Sony will best my Titan for 2D and probably 3D content. I know his Barco 4K DCI projectors certainly do

Wolfgang:

Do you think it will be possible to Edge blend 2 VW1000's, I know you stated stacking them presented a challenge

Many thanks Wolfgang.

With the correct sized/gain screen to provide the desired brightness the Sony is a winner.

70ftlamberts!.....3d must be amazing., in the same vein, the Sony on a smaller screen to provide that sort of brightness in 3D would be amazing.

Does the DI function in 3D mode in the Sony or is it fully opened to maximise brightness?

Thanks again.

Various itterations (from Sony Qualia stack to DP4K-32B stack) of Wolfgangs home theater have been posted in Wolfgangs regular hang-outs f=86 and f=185.

The VW1000 TR chart seems a little confusing. At least the one I have...

Am I in the safe zone in terms of fl and contrast from 18ft -19ft throw, 11ft wide 2.35 screen?

You are correct. I can't say that except for the financial issue. If I could trade someone a Sony straight up for the Titan, I could then sell the Titan for enough to pay for the one I traded and have enough left over to pay for a Sony for myself.

I worked on that chart with the Sony folks and if the one you have shows +/- 2 inches vs +/- 1 inches yoy have the latest. Since you have a 2.35 screen which or course is wider than the 1.888 aspect chips using wither the 1.9 scren chart (actually 1.888) or the 2.35 chart will give you the correct throw numbers and both charts show the same throws. Just plug in your scren width ain the right column in the 2.35, ignore all the other colums and your throws will come out correctly. If you plan on zooming betwen 2.35 and aspect ratiosand below, you must maintain enough long throw range to do the required zoom. One starts at close throw to fill the screen. As you move the projector furtherr out than closest throw you use up part of the zoom range to bring the image size down to full 2.35 width, you reach a closest throw number yoiu can go and still have enough to zoom left to shring the picture down for your lower aspects. The chart has these two. Every number has been doubled checked by me. If you need to go thru, just give me a call. I have to admit the concept of zooming etc when using a 1.8888 chip instead of a 1.7777 chip especially when fed a 1.78 source frame takes a bit of thought.

Thanks Mark. If you could send me the chart you worked on, I would appreciate it. The one I had was something embedded in a recent review. You can send to adidino at live dot com

This puppy should do:
http://www.amd.com/us/products/deskt...deon-7970.aspx

"The market isn't ready for 4k video, but Radeon is. With full support for 3GHz HDMI 1.4a and DisplayPort 1.2 HBR2, the AMD Radeon HD 7970 is set for quad HD."

The review from the link in the 20k+ forum mentions no CMS in his (I assume preproduction) unit. Does the production VW1000 have a CMS?