AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP › 4K Sony VW 1000 first short Test
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

4K Sony VW 1000 first short Test - Page 2

post #31 of 754
1/24/12 at 12:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

Any graphics card that supports HDMI 1.4 will do native 4K at 24hz.

I don't think so. I'm fairly certain the Radeon HD 7970 is currently the only one that can do 4K over HDMI. The rest are limited to lower resolutions, unless I'm mistaken.
Reply
Reply

AVS Top Picks

post #32 of 754
1/24/12 at 1:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by pteittinen View Post

I don't think so. I'm fairly certain the Radeon HD 7970 is currently the only one that can do 4K over HDMI. The rest are limited to lower resolutions, unless I'm mistaken.

If that's the case, AMD is crippling their other cards through drivers. The last two generations of their cards have HDMI 1.4a ports. It's a ploy for you to buy their new flagship card.
Reply
Reply
post #33 of 754
1/24/12 at 3:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

If that's the case, AMD is crippling their other cards through drivers. The last two generations of their cards have HDMI 1.4a ports. It's a ploy for you to buy their new flagship card.

It has nothing to do with that. HDMI 1.4 spec contains both mandatory and optional features, i.e. not everything listed in the spec has to be implemented to get an HDMI 1.4 certification. 4K support is one of the optional ones because if it wasn't, no current Blu-ray 3D player or 3D compatible AV Receiver would be HDMI 1.4 certified. If a manufacturer wants to implement 4K in their product, HDMI 1.4 allows it and tells the manufacturer how it should be done for compatibility.

The main difference between HD 7970 and earlier cards is the 3GHz HDMI transmitter chip needed for 4K. Earlier, slower chips were limited to 1920x1200.
Reply
Reply
post #34 of 754
1/24/12 at 4:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

Any graphics card that supports HDMI 1.4 will do native 4K at 24hz. That's the only refresh rate HDMI currently supports. It shouldn't be an issue for our lot considering that's the refresh rate we want for films anyways.

Actually it is a limitation for HTPC gamers from the perspective that I'm sure we will see higher refresh rates at 4K in future projectors, which in turn could be used for gaming at 4k. Gaming at 4k at 24hz probably isn't going to be ideal for many games.

At $20k, I'm sure I will still have this projector for many years after I could potentially buy a video card that would outperform what this PJ can take.

Or maybe I could get lucky and sell it at the right time to somebody that doesn't care about gaming...
Reply
Reply
post #35 of 754
1/24/12 at 5:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Mayer View Post

it gets late but i have some numbers.

the unit has at high lamp mode (very quiet) no iris at all
contrast at full 100 (no clipping) with d 65 color and lens to the adjust to the biggest
picture it can do with oppo bd player in 2d and 1 hour at the lamp

1920 center lumen!!!

when you select that the 1920x1080 24p signal was scale up to
full wide of the panel the vw 1000 offers

2064 center lumen!!!

i see not any problem by using the scale mode to fill the full panel.
not any bug that i can see.

the lens is very very good at least at the position i select (max big picture).
very sharp and it show the pixels when you go to the screen.
no chromatic bugs in the corners no other issues what a good lens!

i try also the reality creation and when i switch it on you can see that the picture gets much better.
you can adjust than there the level of resolution and noise reduction.
i adjust all to minimum.
as the picture is still at min. a bit to sharp i adjust the general sharpness to 0.
but even than it was for my taste to sharp so i take the oppo adjustments and i found
with -10 sharpness a very nice way to further decrease the picture enhancement
to a level i like it.
that together with the big improvement when you adjust reality creation gives a very nice bug free picture that i like a lot and with this adjustments it looks very good
and naturally and very good.

the other important point are the cr. number that are discussed here at avs
like the lumen number a lot.

i found with open iris max. light out at d 65 with biggest picture from the lens

11050:1 cr.

you need to know that my numbers when i compare it with other people numbers are always a
bit low so i expect even higher numbers from other people that this pr. have native.

all above was at color space rec 709 and color temperature d65.
i am not sure if its really necessary to further calibrate the colors as they looks to me
right out the box very good.

this pr. is a big positive surprise as it have the lumen at d 65 sony promise
(2000 lumen) and the cr. native was with my measurements at over 11000:1 native
also very nice if you think about how bright the unit is.

when you thing that this is a true 4k pr. with native 4096x2160 almost
9 mil. pixel and the lumen and the cr. this pr. is a very good deal if you can afford it.

in 2 days i will have a computer here with the first gc that outputs true 4k via the
hdmi output.
lets see how good the still pictures with 4.27 times the resolution full hd have will looks....
and 3d as well.

but i can say today this is a very very good pr.

congratulation sony!!!




Thanks Wolfgang, for the exellent info on the 1000ES - now I want one even more


Why is your measured CR numbers lower then others ? ( or is it others , who is measuring higher / more optimistic - or is it because "they" measure "best case" ?

- not that I find the numbers low, when you remember its with about 2000 lumens


dj
Reply
Reply
post #36 of 754
1/24/12 at 6:14am
Is there a theoretical or practical limit to the lumen output of a 330W bulb? I'm excited about the numbers, but I'm also skeptical. If W.Meyer's numbers are typical performance, even after a lot of bulb age, I'm not expecting much issue with a large AT screen. Its almost one of those too good to be true moments.
Reply
Reply
post #37 of 754
1/24/12 at 6:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by d.j. View Post

Thanks Wolfgang, for the exellent info on the 1000ES - now I want one even more


Why is your measured CR numbers lower then others ? ( or is it others , who is measuring higher / more optimistic - or is it because "they" measure "best case" ?

- not that I find the numbers low, when you remember its with about 2000 lumens


dj

Actually I also find the native CR number very promising as this is a worst case test condition (iris wide open and zoomed for largest projected image). Depending who is doing the CR test (and what equipment they are using), the JVC projectors of the past couple of years under similar test conditions typically measure from 18,000:1 to 25,000:1 (perhaps Wolfgang's approach would measure a lower value for the JVCs?) while using JVC projector's iris fully stopped down and the zoom set for the smallest projected image is required to get close to JVC's rated CR numbers of 50,000:1 and higher.
Reply
Reply
post #38 of 754
1/24/12 at 6:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bremenfx1 View Post

You always shoot 4096 x 2160 with this projector.
It's up to you how to locate picture. Sony has preset "Picture Position" with which your picture (without black band) will be up-converted like follows.

16:9 - 3840 x 2160
1.85:1 - 3996 × 2160
2.35:1 - 4096 x 1742

It takes 5-6 sec to switch which isn't quick enough to follow aspect change in "Dark Knight"

Thanks for clarifying that. You say always use 4096 x 2160 but I think ypu are saying by your chart then you say in essence by your chart for any source image aspect of 1.89 or higher. If one used the full width for source image aspects of 2.35 or greater fed on a source frame of 1.78, and then wanted to expand vertically electronically and horizontally with an anamorphic, the anamorphic would have to be a 1.24 and ideally of 4K resolution quality. For those having a high quality anamorphic already with a 1.33 horizontal expand, they should not use the position feature but keep everything using just the 16/9 source frame size which on the chip would be 3840 x 1080 and use the vertical stretch 1.32 option on the Sony.
Reply
Reply
post #39 of 754
1/24/12 at 9:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Jones View Post

Actually I also find the native CR number very promising as this is a worst case test condition (iris wide open and zoomed for largest projected image). Depending who is doing the CR test (and what equipment they are using), the JVC projectors of the past couple of years under similar test conditions typically measure from 18,000:1 to 25,000:1 (perhaps Wolfgang's approach would measure a lower value for the JVCs?) while using JVC projector's iris fully stopped down and the zoom set for the smallest projected image is required to get close to JVC's rated CR numbers of 50,000:1 and higher.

Agree. Cine4home's recent test of the RS55 gives 26000:1 o/f CR in high lamp, D65, max zoom, iris open. And don't forget, on top of the 1000's o/f CR is Sony's excellent dynamic iris.

PS Would be nice to hear something about the performance of the 1000's DI.
Reply
Reply
post #40 of 754
1/24/12 at 12:12pm
At CEDIA Sony was sayiing they expected work to begin on a 4K version of Blu-ray. LG was showing 4K flat panel displays at CES 2012 and it appears that an LG vice president was indicating 4K Blu-ray is coming in 2013. HERE is the story. It appears from that story they are talking about true, native 4K Blu-ray software and players and not just a 1080p-to-4K upscaling player. However, the reference in the update at the bottom of the story to a Sony player being announced was proabably talking about an upscaling player.
Reply
Reply
post #41 of 754
1/24/12 at 3:38pm
Got my VW1000 today and have to say that so far I am very impressed

Wolfgang is right about the light output - it is really as promised, for mine I measured 2001 lumen (quad HD) and 2134 lumen (full panel) respectively at D65, Rec 709 and in high lamp mode.

I also measured the really quiet low lamp mode and it measured 1494 lumen full panel which for many users will be more than enough in 2D.

The lens is really very good, black level even with iris off is at a very good level given the light output and the picture it throws looks just very pleasing to me and with the right settings has a bit of an analog quality that I fond to be missing to a degree in other projectors.

I know I should have taken more measurements but I simply had to put in one demo sequence after another today
Reply
Reply
post #42 of 754
1/24/12 at 3:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver Klohs View Post

Got my VW1000 today and have to say that so far I am very impressed

Wolfgang is right about the light output - it is really as promised, for mine I measured 2001 lumen (quad HD) and 2134 lumen (full panel) respectively at D65, Rec 709 and in high lamp mode.

I also measured the really quiet low lamp mode and it measured 1494 lumen full panel which for many users will be more than enough in 2D.

The lens is really very good, black level even with iris off is at a very good level given the light output and the picture it throws looks just very pleasing to me and with the right settings has a bit of an analog quality that I fond to be missing to a degree in other projectors.

I know I should have taken more measurements but I simply had to put in one demo sequence after another today

Would be great also to hear how the DI performs.
Reply
Reply
post #43 of 754
1/24/12 at 3:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Jones View Post

the JVC projectors of the past couple of years under similar test conditions typically measure from 18,000:1 to 25,000:1 (perhaps Wolfgang's approach would measure a lower value for the JVCs?) while using JVC projector's iris fully stopped down and the zoom set for the smallest projected image is required to get close to JVC's rated CR numbers of 50,000:1 and higher.

I think that the VW1000 will reach a maximum of 20.000:1 (native) like the Sony VW90 at its "best". As far as I remember the 4K-panels are very similar to the 2K-panels of the VW90/95 concerning native contrast.
Reply
Reply
post #44 of 754
1/24/12 at 5:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver Klohs View Post

Got my VW1000 today and have to say that so far I am very impressed

Wolfgang is right about the light output - it is really as promised, for mine I measured 2001 lumen (quad HD) and 2134 lumen (full panel) respectively at D65, Rec 709 and in high lamp mode.

I also measured the really quiet low lamp mode and it measured 1494 lumen full panel which for many users will be more than enough in 2D.

The lens is really very good, black level even with iris off is at a very good level given the light output and the picture it throws looks just very pleasing to me and with the right settings has a bit of an analog quality that I fond to be missing to a degree in other projectors.

I know I should have taken more measurements but I simply had to put in one demo sequence after another today

Thanks for the information. Sounds like Wolfgang's impressions and measurements are pretty consistant with yours and the Sony folks came through on their word regarding the performance specs.

Art
Reply
Reply
post #45 of 754
1/24/12 at 6:02pm
Thread Starter 
this is the new gc that can feed true 4k via 1 hdmi out.

http://www.hisdigital.com/un/product2-678.shtml

i will try tomorrow on the vw1000.

this card have also 2 mini displayports out but i am not sure if "there" is also the
4k out possible.
i buy already a adapter from mini displayport to hdmi but not sure if it
let a 4k signal goes true.

if all is possible than it will be very likely that you can select a double
4k desktop side by side 3840x2160 x2 so 7680x2160 and this can be a perfect tool to do
4k in 3d with a stack of 2 sony vw 1000
Reply
Reply
post #46 of 754
1/24/12 at 6:15pm
For those who do not require the max light output, can the DI be shut off and the iris manually closed down?

At this setting and low lamp what would the lumen output be and the on/off CR?

Thanks.
Reply
Reply
post #47 of 754
1/24/12 at 6:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Highjinx View Post

For those who do not require the max light output, can the DI be shut off and the iris manually closed down?
At this setting and low lamp what would the lumen output be and the on/off CR?

Thanks.

According to the Instruction Manual, the iris can be adjusted in manual mode, so it seems that what you would like to do is possible. It would be very interesting to have some measurements (come on, cine4home!) of CR and lumens for various such settings.

PS Since Sony's DIs on the 95 and even earlier pj's have been considered the best there are, I would expect that it will be very good on the 1000. Would be interesting to hear some reports from those of you that have one when you get the time to check it out.
Reply
Reply
post #48 of 754
1/24/12 at 8:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Mayer View Post

this is the new gc that can feed true 4k via 1 hdmi out.

http://www.hisdigital.com/un/product2-678.shtml

i will try tomorrow on the vw1000.

this card have also 2 mini displayports out but i am not sure if "there" is also the
4k out possible.
i buy already a adapter from mini displayport to hdmi but not sure if it
let a 4k signal goes true.

if all is possible than it will be very likely that you can select a double
4k desktop side by side 3840x2160 x2 so 7680x2160 and this can be a perfect tool to do
4k in 3d with a stack of 2 sony vw 1000

I betcha Sony shipped him two.
Reply
Reply
post #49 of 754
1/24/12 at 8:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 4 View Post

I betcha Sony shipped him two.

I hope they shipped one to Ekkehart/cine4home so we can hear his report soon.
Reply
Reply
post #50 of 754
1/24/12 at 10:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

According to the Instruction Manual, the iris can be adjusted in manual mode, so it seems that what you would like to do is possible. It would be very interesting to have some measurements (come on, cine4home!) of CR and lumens for various such settings.

PS Since Sony's DIs on the 95 and even earlier pj's have been considered the best there are, I would expect that it will be very good on the 1000. Would be interesting to hear some reports from those of you that have one when you get the time to check it out.

Thanks millerwill..........this would make 2d stellar on a small screen, high on/off CR at reduced lumens, fully opened iris and high brightness for 3d.
Reply
Reply
post #51 of 754
1/25/12 at 8:38am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blasst View Post

Damn Mr Mayer! You are going to have 4k coming out your ears soon.

Are you going to do a shoot out with the Barco?

Also, while your at it, you might as well pick up the JVC 4k camcorder coming out this spring.

no comment



will measure the number 2 soon.
i will get in some hours the computer that can feed 4k nativ.
lets see if it works......
Reply
Reply
post #52 of 754
1/25/12 at 9:14am
^^^

Oh My.........

Reply
Reply
post #53 of 754
1/25/12 at 9:17am
We're insanely jealous
Reply
Reply
post #54 of 754
1/25/12 at 9:31am
Just want to hear more info: brightness and o/f CR in low lamp, brightness and CR as the manual iris is closed down progressively, performance of the DI, ... .
Reply
Reply
post #55 of 754
1/25/12 at 9:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver Klohs View Post

Got my VW1000 today and have to say that so far I am very impressed
I know I should have taken more measurements but I simply had to put in one demo sequence after another today

Not buying another projector with a conventional lamp, not buying another projector with a conventional lamp...
(bangs head on the wall and bites his tongue)
Reply
Reply
post #56 of 754
1/25/12 at 9:46am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

Just want to hear more info: brightness and o/f CR in low lamp, brightness and CR as the manual iris is closed down progressively, performance of the DI, ... .

i am sorry i not have this time to do all this test and report about her.

i spend already a lot of time here to make the posts i did and many found this helpful.
expect some cr. number and lumen number from secound one but not to much more at least not the next few days.
Reply
Reply
post #57 of 754
1/25/12 at 10:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Mayer View Post

i am sorry i not have this time to do all this test and report about her.

Understood--I'm just being greedy! Very much appreciate the reports you have made.
Reply
Reply
post #58 of 754
1/25/12 at 10:33am
Wolfgang - is this new Sony setup going to be projected on your large 7 meter screen that is shown in this thread?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hlight=7+meter

thanks for the great info so far.
Reply
Reply
post #59 of 754
1/25/12 at 10:49am
Thread Starter 
i like as well to know more like for sample

-how cr. is with iris manual close or in between
-how 3d looks
-how the lcos 4k compare to the dlp 4k with native 4k
and more also other people ask for.

some i will measure for myself and that result i will post but some wishes here i cant do.

here what i plan to do next:
-see if the 4k computer works with native 4k material via hdmi or mini displayport (today).
-lumen and cr. pr. number 2 (tomorrow).
-cr. increase when use manual iris and light drop.(tomorrow)

very likely cine4home will do more detailed measurements but not sure when .
Reply
Reply
post #60 of 754
1/25/12 at 11:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Mayer View Post

i like as well to know more like for sample

-how cr. is with iris manual close or in between
-how 3d looks
-how the lcos 4k compare to the dlp 4k with native 4k
and more also other people ask for.

some i will measure for myself and that result i will post but some wishes here i cant do.

here what i plan to do next:
-see if the 4k computer works with native 4k material via hdmi or mini displayport (today).
-lumen and cr. pr. number 2 (tomorrow).
-cr. increase when use manual iris and light drop.(tomorrow)

very likely cine4home will do more detailed measurements but not sure when .

This will be very helpful and appreciated; thanks much.
Reply
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home

AVS Top Picks

AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP › 4K Sony VW 1000 first short Test