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4K Sony VW 1000 first short Test - Page 15

post #421 of 754
2/12/12 at 10:16am
Done.

http://hstrial-jrodriguez996.homeste...OR-REVIEW.html

Time to go to sleep...
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post #422 of 754
2/12/12 at 11:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 4 View Post

As an enginner, that the first thing I discussed with the Sony enginners on Friday trying to figure out why 2000 overseas and 1400 here. Looking at the circuit diagrams of the power supply which is auto sensing, we ruled that out quickly. Something that troubles me is the big difference Wolfgang says he gets going 1 click down from 100 contrast. That shouldn't be. I suppose someone could plug it into 220 Volts and find out.

Mark - perhaps this has already been covered, but the lumens output will change depending on if you calibrated to pass whiter-than-white levels (i.e., WTW levels above 235) or to start clipping the white at input level 236. I know some people like to be able to display levels well above 235 and perhaps all the way up to 255, but if the projector is calibrated this way then when displaying a 100% reference white test pattern (i.e., level 235) then you will measure lower lumens. Is there a change your VW1000 is calibated to pass WTW and perhaps Wolfgang's was not?
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post #423 of 754
2/12/12 at 12:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Mayer View Post

i try just one hour ago a new anamorphic lens that increase my light output
for scope movies see the picture down(look at the light beam!)

i also measure my first unit after 16 lamp hours on and i found
almost the same lumen i post in my first measurement.
-1910 center lumen for 3840x2160 and
-2055 center lumen for 4096x2160 see post number 5.

i dont know why some people report about so low lumen numbers but i know how to measure since long time and i post in many detail all the adjustments
i did when i do this measurements see my post 345.

also cine4home measure the unit at over
-2000 lumen (dont know what adjustments this is based on)
oliver report
-2001 center lumen in 3840x2160 and
-2134 center lumen at 4096x2160
and his secound unit had

-1980 center lumen in 3840x2160
-2095 center lumen in 4096x2160

there was a dealer
in germany that measured his unit as well with this numbers.

may the 110v is the problem!
we have here 230v and this will be may better

but seriously i dont know the reason why some report this low numbers.
there must be a reason and i look forward to find it out.



I wish I had one of those German units. This is giving me half the fL as my HT5000 and it is rated at around 2000 lumens. This is using a high quality minolta LS 110 light meter center measurement.


Art
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post #424 of 754
2/12/12 at 3:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

The Chief SLB020 plate fits the RPA mount.

Thanks Mike. Looks like I'll have no issues swapping out the VW95 for the 1000 with my existing chief mount as I suspected. Now if my contact at Sony would actually respond to my query about local avail. Hopefully I get a pos response in next 24hrs!
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post #425 of 754
2/12/12 at 5:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 4 View Post

Randal. I think when trying to obtain max lumens, I used DCI color space. According to Cine4home using this space or Adobe RGB will cost light which of course is correct because those color spaces use a filter mechanically inserted into the light path. I suggest trying closest throw, open iris, 2.35 zoom aspect ratio to force full panel, 100% white pattern, contrast at 100, the highest d value (too tired to look it up) gamma lowest correction value (1.8?)(not sure if gamma makes a difference) high lamp, BT709, Reality Creation on, both resolution and noise filter set to 50 each, the black setting in the expert menu to high. Please email me what you get. Thanks

I'll try this tomorrow Mark. This is a lot of work for an old guy with a bad back. I tried most of the setting last time I checked lumens but I may not have hit this exact combination. I think I'm going to try another lamp also. Right now I'm getting a bit over 30 ftL and I like it this bright.

I think I'll watch a movie after I take the measurements to see what it looks like really bright. This projector does throw an awesome picture.
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post #426 of 754
2/12/12 at 7:11pm
Yea. I hit my wife up that I was buying one after she and Professor Miller watched some bloody horror movie on it. She thought it was really good, significantly better than she had seen before in our HT and didn't object. Course I didn't set it up like JoeRod, I prefer to operate it as a projector replicating the source material. Professor Miller's is all packed up in a carry on bagage sack. I should get another one this week.
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post #427 of 754
2/12/12 at 9:48pm
I have finally received an official Sony order quotation through with the first shipment of VW1000's landing this week! So I'm only days away from getting one here in Aus hopefully. Here's to joining my North Hemisphere VW1000 compadres very soon! I may have to borrow a lightmeter to test this 240v lumen theory. I'm glad I haven't cracked open my Transformers 3D BR yet. Although I guess I should by rights, do a test on the VW95 so I can get better idea of the improvements to be had with the VW1000 in 3D. I get the feeling my 110" Studiotek 130 may being giving way to larger one as my view dist calcs tell me I'll most prob need to. Also, I'll be ordering the new ATI videocard to run 4k from the HTPC. Exciting times ahead!
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post #428 of 754
2/13/12 at 1:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Jones View Post

Mark - perhaps this has already been covered, but the lumens output will change depending on if you calibrated to pass whiter-than-white levels (i.e., WTW levels above 235) or to start clipping the white at input level 236. I know some people like to be able to display levels well above 235 and perhaps all the way up to 255, but if the projector is calibrated this way then when displaying a 100% reference white test pattern (i.e., level 235) then you will measure lower lumens. Is there a change your VW1000 is calibated to pass WTW and perhaps Wolfgang's was not?


Ron, thats a god point - for example, I like to adjust my 95ES to no clipping ( the 253 still flash on white and even on all three colors separate = no clipping ) there I get around 12,5 -13 fL on screen, if I measure at 109% ( same as adjust to clip at 235 ) I get 15,5 -16 fL ( thats around 20% increase in output ).
BTW this is in low lamp mode.


dj
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post #429 of 754
2/13/12 at 2:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by OzHDHT View Post

I have finally received an official Sony order quotation through with the first shipment of VW1000's landing this week! So I'm only days away from getting one here in Aus hopefully. Here's to joining my North Hemisphere VW1000 compadres very soon! I may have to borrow a lightmeter to test this 240v lumen theory. I'm glad I haven't cracked open my Transformers 3D BR yet. Although I guess I should by rights, do a test on the VW95 so I can get better idea of the improvements to be had with the VW1000 in 3D. I get the feeling my 110" Studiotek 130 may being giving way to larger one as my view dist calcs tell me I'll most prob need to. Also, I'll be ordering the new ATI videocard to run 4k from the HTPC. Exciting times ahead!


Oz, Im looking forward to hear your impressions about the difference betwen the 95ES and the 1000ES ( Joerod didnt make it easyér for me to live with the 95ES ), its allways nice to hear more opions, to get a more "balanced" vision on how much off a upgrade it is.


dj
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post #430 of 754
2/13/12 at 3:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Jones View Post

Mark - perhaps this has already been covered, but the lumens output will change depending on if you calibrated to pass whiter-than-white levels (i.e., WTW levels above 235) or to start clipping the white at input level 236. I know some people like to be able to display levels well above 235 and perhaps all the way up to 255, but if the projector is calibrated this way then when displaying a 100% reference white test pattern (i.e., level 235) then you will measure lower lumens. Is there a change your VW1000 is calibated to pass WTW and perhaps Wolfgang's was not?

For measuring the lumens, we set the contrast at 100 so it really doesn't matter much what the pass was. Actually our machine cliiped 236 with the contrast control set to 97%, passing 235. So on the machine I had (Professor Miller's) I would have run it at 97%. Tom lowered the contrast to 90 to get better gray scale performance. On my screen, one doesn't need anywhere near maximum lumens out. Bill playing with his machine here for a few days set contrast at 95.
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post #431 of 754
2/13/12 at 5:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by d.j. View Post

Oz, Im looking forward to hear your impressions about the difference betwen the 95ES and the 1000ES ( Joerod didnt make it easyér for me to live with the 95ES ), its allways nice to hear more opions, to get a more "balanced" vision on how much off a upgrade it is.


dj

To be clear the 95 is not chopped liver sitting next to the 1000. It still has good depth, good sharpness and very nice colors. It's just doing a side by side the superior scaling in the 1000 brings it to another level. I told Jaclyn last night I haven't had a night and day experience in a long time. Probably not since 720p to 1080p. Well, here it is!
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post #432 of 754
2/13/12 at 6:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

To be clear the 95 is not chopped liver sitting next to the 1000. It still has good depth, good sharpness and very nice colors. It's just doing a side by side the superior scaling in the 1000 brings it to another level. I told Jaclyn last night I haven't had a night and day experience in a long time. Probably not since 720p to 1080p. Well, here it is!


Joe

You can try to make it better for me anyway/ anyhow - it dosnt matter I WANT a 1000ES

dj
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post #433 of 754
2/13/12 at 7:54am
Thread Starter 
you can be sure that i like to know what happen with the
low lumen vw 1000 you measure in us!

i have already contact the right person that should answer this and i hopefully get a info end of this week or next week.

i have so far with my unit with now about 24 hours at the lamp almost 10 ftl at the center of my
screen visible and i will build now a rack to put the pr. at the perfect position
where i have most lumen together with the isco anamorphic lens.

its not so easy as from back there are the big ones and because of this i cant
put the pr. up at the ceiling (isco will also not work good there!) and between the 2 sofas i cant put them not high enough
as the sony will produce a shadow when the big ones at the back are working!

its not a perfect place at all but as i need every lumen the unit give me i have to deal with this.

possible i will move the pr. about 40 cm back to not having the unit direct
at the side but
this alone drops the lumen at around 4 %!!!

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post #434 of 754
2/13/12 at 8:08am
I just read Doug Blackburn's widescreen review magazine review of the Enlightor 4k. He states that the real gain is 0.7. Should I take that as accurate? I believe that would be the final nail in the coffin of this thing being able to light up 160" wide scope assuming the best it could do was about 1400 lumens (about 12 ftL). 3D would them be a very dim 4ftL or so (based on eliteprojectorcalculator.com).

If it reached .9 gain that would make me think its right on the brink of being "OK" and I could live with it.
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post #435 of 754
2/13/12 at 8:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifiaudio2 View Post

I just read Doug Blackburn's widescreen review magazine review of the Enlightor 4k. He states that the real gain is 0.7. Should I take that as accurate? I believe that would be the final nail in the coffin of this thing being able to light up 160" wide scope assuming the best it could do was about 1400 lumens (about 12 ftL). 3D would them be a very dim 4ftL or so (based on eliteprojectorcalculator.com).

If it reached .9 gain that would make me think its right on the brink of being "OK" and I could live with it.

Believe it or not 4ftL is what we are seeing in most 3D movie cinemas. While we all want to maximize light output the image may still be acceptable once your eyes adjust.
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post #436 of 754
2/13/12 at 8:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Gouger View Post

Believe it or not 4ftL is what we are seeing in most 3D movie cinemas. While we all want to maximize light output the image may still be acceptable once your eyes adjust.

Ok thanks... is the Enlightor's gain really about .7 though, as Doug stated?
I believe he came up with that number by measuing the FtL of the other screen he had and using its gain as the reference, then comparing to the FtL of the Enlightor.
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post #437 of 754
2/13/12 at 10:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Gouger View Post

Believe it or not 4ftL is what we are seeing in most 3D movie cinemas. While we all want to maximize light output the image may still be acceptable once your eyes adjust.

That is fair enough except after bulb aging he will be down to 6-7 FTL in 2D. If the bulb ages like we are seeing on the lower end model Sony's then you could replace the bulb every 600 hours or so and likely be able to maintain 10 FTL in 2D, but that remains to be seen.

While we are on this topic as I too am considering a similar scenario, I am wondering if I should consider a Stewart ST130 microperf x2. The question is can you see the perf at 12' viewing distance?
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post #438 of 754
2/13/12 at 11:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dangc View Post

....... I am wondering if I should consider a Stewart ST130 microperf x2. The question is can you see the perf at 12' viewing distance?



According to Randall (posted either above or in another thread), you cannot.




Jim
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post #439 of 754
2/13/12 at 12:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dangc View Post

That is fair enough except after bulb aging he will be down to 6-7 FTL in 2D. If the bulb ages like we are seeing on the lower end model Sony's then you could replace the bulb every 600 hours or so and likely be able to maintain 10 FTL in 2D, but that remains to be seen.

While we are on this topic as I too am considering a similar scenario, I am wondering if I should consider a Stewart ST130 microperf x2. The question is can you see the perf at 12' viewing distance?

I second Jims reply I have a 1.3 micro perf and I could stand a few feet from my screen and see no visible pixel structure.
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post #440 of 754
2/13/12 at 1:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Gouger View Post

I second Jims reply I have a 1.3 micro perf and I could stand a few feet from my screen and see no visible pixel structure.

How far? 8ft-10ft? My first row will be about 9ft from the screen. (11ft wide 2.35). How about for white images? I hear that's when you can start to see the perf.
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post #441 of 754
2/13/12 at 1:22pm
Perf screens add a lot of comb filtering in the audio band.

Here are some interesting graphs about that:

http://www.smxscreen.com/audio-measurements.html
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post #442 of 754
2/13/12 at 1:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifiaudio2 View Post

I just read Doug Blackburn's widescreen review magazine review of the Enlightor 4k. He states that the real gain is 0.7. Should I take that as accurate? I believe that would be the final nail in the coffin of this thing being able to light up 160" wide scope assuming the best it could do was about 1400 lumens (about 12 ftL). 3D would them be a very dim 4ftL or so (based on eliteprojectorcalculator.com).

If it reached .9 gain that would make me think its right on the brink of being "OK" and I could live with it.

Jeff Meier aka "hometheater guru" from AccuCal tested the Enlightor 4k 0.84 on axis .............see for yourself.

http://www.accucalhd.com/documents/a...een_report.pdf
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post #443 of 754
2/13/12 at 1:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post

How far? 8ft-10ft? My first row will be about 9ft from the screen. (11ft wide 2.35). How about for white images? I hear that's when you can start to see the perf.

Tony I am using a Servertson screen 1.3 gain micro perf. At 8 feet away from the screen the perforations disappear.
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post #444 of 754
2/13/12 at 2:02pm
Whether or not you can see the perf of course depends on visual acuity. With 20/13 vision, I can see the perfs in an ST130 at 12 feet, so I can't use one in my theater. It's a pity, because I could use the gain.

Instead, I'm using a woven screen (Screen Research), which looks great to me.
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post #445 of 754
2/13/12 at 5:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by d.j. View Post

Oz, Im looking forward to hear your impressions about the difference betwen the 95ES and the 1000ES ( Joerod didnt make it easyér for me to live with the 95ES ), its allways nice to hear more opions, to get a more "balanced" vision on how much off a upgrade it is.


dj

dj, absolutely will do. I'm looking forward to posting them. I have a good in between viewing environment, since my room isn't strictly a dedicated 'bat cave'. So I have a lot of interest in different ambient lighting scenarios the VW1000 proclaims to be able to cope with in the video brochure I've seen.
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post #446 of 754
2/13/12 at 6:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by doublewing11 View Post


Jeff Meier aka "hometheater guru" from AccuCal tested the Enlightor 4k 0.84 on axis .............see for yourself.

http://www.accucalhd.com/documents/a...een_report.pdf

Great info.. thanks for the link, and thanks Jeff!
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post #447 of 754
2/13/12 at 11:39pm
Thread Starter 
Sony got back to me and i got confirm that there is no difference at all between europe and a usa version of the vw 1000.

the 110v will not made any difference.

the only reason can be different measurements and different adjustments.

i have report already that as my unit are very close to the right color
(i compare it a/b to my color calibrate 4k dlp visually)
out of the box so i do nothing what decrease the lumen.
opposite i do everything what increase the lumen that not destroy the good picture.

for sample i found that even in bright seq. there is a small about 1.2% increase of lumen when you switch iris to "off" compare to other adjustments.
than of course use max. zoom the pr. can do adjust the film mode of and all the rest of the adjustments i already post.
depends on the contrast level the bd player outputs i go till the pr. start to clip at white.

than as i know that uhp lamps "not like" the low lamp mode i operate my pr. always with high lamp mode.

may you need to know that i drive my unit always with not any optical shift at all
as the vw 1000 is "horizontally AND vertical" at the center of the screen.

i will not measure it but a shift in any direction can decrease the lumen!
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post #448 of 754
2/14/12 at 12:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifiaudio2 View Post

I just read Doug Blackburn's widescreen review magazine review of the Enlightor 4k. He states that the real gain is 0.7. Should I take that as accurate? I believe that would be the final nail in the coffin of this thing being able to light up 160" wide scope assuming the best it could do was about 1400 lumens (about 12 ftL). 3D would them be a very dim 4ftL or so (based on eliteprojectorcalculator.com).

If it reached .9 gain that would make me think its right on the brink of being "OK" and I could live with it.

You need to talk to Chris at SeymourAV if that is what is stopping you. I had the same concern after reading that article. I decided to take the chance.
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post #449 of 754
2/14/12 at 12:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dangc View Post

While we are on this topic as I too am considering a similar scenario, I am wondering if I should consider a Stewart ST130 microperf x2. The question is can you see the perf at 12' viewing distance?

Not sure how there can be a definite answer to this question, as it depends on your eyesight. 12' is pretty far back for this projector, but I decided to stay with weaves instead of even considering microperf. I might regret the decision if I wish I had another .2-.5 gain...

EDIT: Guess JustMike beat me to that, and of course the degradation of audio compared to weave has also been mentioned as well...
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post #450 of 754
2/14/12 at 12:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Mayer View Post

Sony got back to me and i got confirm that there is no difference at all between europe and a usa version of the vw 1000.

the 110v will not made any difference.

the only reason can be different measurements and different adjustments.

i have report already that as my unit are very close to the right color
(i compare it a/b to my color calibrate 4k dlp visually)
out of the box so i do nothing what decrease the lumen.
opposite i do everything what increase the lumen that not destroy the good picture.

for sample i found that even in bright seq. there is a small about 1.2% increase of lumen when you switch iris to "off" compare to other adjustments.
than of course use max. zoom the pr. can do adjust the film mode of and all the rest of the adjustments i already post.
depends on the contrast level the bd player outputs i go till the pr. start to clip at white.

than as i know that uhp lamps "not like" the low lamp mode i operate my pr. always with high lamp mode.

may you need to know that i drive my unit always with not any optical shift at all
as the vw 1000 is "horizontally AND vertical" at the center of the screen.

i will not measure it but a shift in any direction can decrease the lumen!

Glad you put that one to bed Wolfgang. I had pretty major doubts about such a voltage related anomaly actually occurring. Good point re optical shift. Anyone with ceiling mounting I would think would be working with some amount of optical shift, unlike your set up.
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