Originally Posted by dare2be
The only thing I'd suggest is that while this thread has taken a life of its own, slightly skewed from the thread title, the sticky thread about recording options has remained relatively stagnant...so maybe it would be beneficial to move or at least summarize the discussion into the sticky thread.
That "new" sticky thread has remained stagnant because it was unnecessary, redundant, and its very existence unwelcome to a great many members who are none too happy at the prospect of the stifling, unevenly censorious, disorganized chaos of its progenitor dragging into the indefinite future under the guise of a "new, more relevant" sticky title, distracting newcomers from forum topics that would be more immediately helpful to them. The earlier sticky had long since degenerated into a repetitive mess hostile to "outsiders," while still trying to suck every newbie and every remotely-related video recording topic into itself. The respect and pride it once engendered in most AVS recorder forum participants has been lost irretrievably, because of poor direction and management choices of late, and they are leery of its unpleasant effects continuing on as a zombie, undead, "new" sticky. No one has been fooled, everyone here knows exactly what that "new" sticky really represents: some are willing to go along with the charade, many others are not. Time will tell.
I know from other posts that you disagree with this view, and you have a perfect right to. This does not change the fact that the "new" sticky is five years too late to be relevant to its own title, and is a contradiction of its own terms. In a previous post, you took umbrage at my saying "DVDRs have been gone since 2007, this new sticky would have been applicable then but is pointless and unnecessary now." You pointed to the continued existence of DVD/VHS recorders on Best Buy shelves as a counterargument, but that was disingenuous of you. You know perfectly well the original sticky that birthed this "new" one was dedicated to a single specific incarnation of the DVD/HDD recorder concept: no one there was interested in DVD-only or DVD/VHS combos. You also conveniently forget, the only reason that sticky existed and thrived was because every other DVD/HDD recorder had been pulled from the USA market at the time it was created five years ago.
The "new" sticky title is misleading. I said before elsewhere, and will say again here: "DVDR" is AVS shorthand for "DVD/HDD" recorder (not DVD-only recorder, not DVD/VHS recorder). "DVDR" recorders have been "gone" since Panasonic, Pioneer, Sony, and Toshiba abandoned the USA market in late 2006. They've been "gone" from Canada since Sony dropped the last lingering RDR-HX780 in late 2008. So, to title a "new" sticky thread in 2012 as "Options To Record When DVDRs Are Gone" was grossly inaccurate and borderline insulting. "DVDRs", in the overall sense, have been gone for several years.
The correct, honest
title for the new sticky should have been "Options To Record When The Magnavox 515 Is Gone." The fact that it was not
titled honestly speaks volumes, and has had a definite deterrent effect on some members who might have otherwise posted to it.
That "new" sticky has no purpose other than to continue the unpleasant tactics of the soon-to-slowly-fade Magnavox sticky thread. All of the people who were concerned about DVDRs being "gone" have either already migrated to thread topics devoted to PC or TiVo alternatives, or already long-since bought a Magnavox as backup to their older recorders. The only thing that has changed regarding DVDRs in the past five years is the recent apparent discontinuation of the Magnavox: one single DVDR out of what was once a field of dozens.
The people who are long-time members of this recorder subforum still own and use their old recorders, replacing them on eBay or Craigs List and/or supplementing them with Magnavoxes. But the Magnavox, as good as it is within its limitations, was a pale substitute for the classic DVDRs: the once-thriving AVS recorder community has already
coped with the "DVDRs Are Gone!" question for the past five years, and has written countless threads and posts about their experiences.
The "new" sticky is irrelevant to them: it is strictly a continuation of the solipsistic Magnavox thread. Instead of being broken out as a new sticky, the old one should have been retitled to include the new topic of a "post-Magnavox" world for those who were interested. The current, active Magnavox user group is very unlike the larger group that had been using other DVDRs for many years prior. This larger group took the Magnavox in stride as the last remaining DVD/HDD recorder, and simply added it to their arsenal if they felt they needed it (I bought two myself). Another, smallish group of newer members bought a Magnavox and uses it with the same reasoning as the older members: specifically as an archiving tool. But the vast majority of current, active Magnavox enthusiasts were attracted mostly when the $169 refurb party started, and when the new retail price dropped to $239.
These newer, active Magnavox posters are price-sensitive: they would not in a million years have paid the going rate of $469 for a Toshiba or Panasonic in 2006 (which is why all those brands withdrew). They want the convenience of a standalone, single-box solution. A huge number are basic boxless cable subscribers looking for a poor mans PVR with no subscription fees, with built-in DVD as a nice bonus. It is not
a criticism to acknowledge these people exist and form the core of the Magnavox user base: if it weren't for them, and Target trying to pull a fast one on WalMart, the Magnavox might well have been dropped two years ago instead of today. However, this larger group of Magnavox users will not be interested in any of the current possible "Options For Recording When DVDRs (i.e., We All Know He Means The Magnavox 515) Are Gone." The "options" are all double to triple the retail price of the Magnavox, don't burn discs directly, and/or require some PC skills because they're PC upgrades- not recorders in the traditional sense. Discussion of expensive or PC-centric alternatives would confuse or annoy most Magnavox enthusiasts, and their displeasure would dilute and distress the contributions of members who had become familiar with pricier or PC devices. Which is why a "new" sticky that doesn't accurately state its topic as "Alternatives To The Magnavox" is regarded as bogus grandstanding by more than a few AVS members, and ignored.
You may not understand this, dare2be, but the wailing and gnashing of teeth when the beloved Panasonic EH55 DVD/HDD was pulled from the USA market in early 2007 far, FAR eclipsed the grief of Magnavox enthusiasts today. This entire AVS recorder forum was given over to discussing alternatives, HTPC options, repair advice, links to the TiVo community, and solidarity with Pioneer, Sony and Toshiba enthusiasts who were similarly afflicted. The Magnavox discontinuation, while historic as the last of its kind, pales in comparison. We did not see anyone rush to put up a narrow, confining sticky ten minutes after the withdrawal of the Panasonic was announced. We did not see a sticky for Pioneer, Toshiba, Sony, Polaroid or RCA either. What we DID see was a productive, ongoing set of complementary threads that rose and fell in prominence appropriate to interest and the passage of time. Some of those threads, such as the Toshiba XS repair topics, still surface regularly on our front page as new info emerges.
But no stickies. We have at least a dozen incredibly
knowledgeable members on this recorder subforum, specialists in certain popular models and brands, who could easily create and maintain sticky threads for those units. In fact, other members have petitioned them repeatedly to do so. These experts have deliberately chosen not to, because they feel a sticky inevitably isolates the exchange of ideas among the larger membership unless it is very narrowly specific to a very general-purpose but confusing topic (like the perennial "DVD Recorders Cannot Record In Full HDTV" advisory we've had for many years).
This widely-held view is why that "new" sticky is sparsely attended, and why I make no attempt to police people here in this
thread: they are free to discuss whatever they like so long as it relates in some small way to my original topic re disc/hdd/editing standalones fading into the sunset on a global scale. Under no circumstances would I want this thread or its posts absorbed into that new "sticky:"
it will wax and wane of its own accord, like every other intelligent non-sticky thread on this forum. When this thread drops down into obscurity, it will mean others of more interest have replaced it. That's how it should work. The Magnavox sticky thread was presumably created to serve the Magnavox community, re-titling it to include suitable alternatives would serve that community much more effectively than the creation of the new, suspect followup sticky.
You are on the right track but the wrong thread, dare2be: if any
thread should be subsumed by another, it is wajo's "new" sticky which should be pulled back into his existing Magnavox sticky where it belongs and would prove immensely more useful. The "new" sticky is not in truth a "new" or general purpose thread: to pretend otherwise is a disservice to both the Magnavox user community and the larger recorder subforum.