Recorder Market Is Unsettled Everywhere, Not Just USA/Canada Anymore - Page 2

Yes, one would think so: this has puzzled me for years. For every post from satisfied, tech-savvy users who extoll the virtues of PC capture I still see a dozen from people who wish they hadn't bothered. And thats just for TV capture: forget VHS capture, where the horror stories run 20:1 against PC in preference to a standalone. So its a real head-scratcher why these accessory boards and HTPCs thrive while everything else has died off. Even with the latest PC capture solutions, the same cable-tv issues that killed off standalones still apply. Its nice to know CableCard is now making inroads to HTPCs, but you still have to fight tooth and nail with most regional cable companies to get it working right, and even then it isn't a 100% breeze (as many TiVo owners can testify).

I would assume its just a sheer numbers game. Making and selling a raw video board or USB breakout box that can be plugged into hundreds of millions of generic PCs, to an amazingly huge market of receptive gearheads (who would network their toilet given half a chance) must be much easier than pitching a standalone device to the bizarrely disinterested consumer market. Although its probably best not to overthink this: while the HTPC solutions seem to be from a different planet, they rise and fall based on the same issues that drove the standalone market.

Average Joe and Jane timeshifter aren't making permanent recordings of anything anymore, and that trend accelerates the younger you go on the demographic scale. So right off the bat, there goes 70% of your standalone or HTPC market. These casual timeshifters also want full HDTV quality, which can't be achieved at the giveaway price they're willing to pay. The subscription cable/sat PVRs fill that void quite nicely for them, those who want a little more go with TiVo. The remaining "elite" market wants to screw around with media farms, AVCHD-on-DVD or various BD format options: no standalone will ever satisfy them, and they're tech-proficient, so they jump on the PC.

I'm still amazed that 30 million off-air-only consumers can't support something like the Magnavox for at least a few more years. But perhaps the limitation of SD video recording is no longer acceptable in this era of $599 55" flat screens. Even for OTA users, HD is a requirement now. With sales of expensive BD/HDD recorders dead at launch, it appears they aren't too interested in disc burning either. My guess is the OTA crowd will soon be offered the "convenient" BluRay Player + HDD HiDef Recorder single-box combo units now popping up in overseas markets. Not exactly ideal, but if Americans turn their nose up at that option, they can kiss non-subscription recorders goodbye forever. Mfrs have had just about enough of our capriciousness.


In keeping with the initial point of this thread, try to put this event in context with the larger global recorder market. While this is a "crisis" we're taking very personally, give credit where its due: Funai actually continued making DVD/HDD for America two years after dropping them everywhere else except for Japan (and even Japan was limited to the much more expensive BD/HDD versions, which were themselves discontinued more than a year ago). If anything, Funai bent over backwards to try and accommodate the ever-shrinking pool of buyers here.


Yes, but thats just further proof that the two extremes of the spectrum have closed in to crush the middle ground. H.264 may be "where its at" and 10 hours of high-quality SD squeezed onto a BluRay data-format for archiving is an astounding achievement. But neither these nor the many other geek options are widely compatible: they just fracture the market further into techies vs "brain-dead don't ask me to think" Best Buy customers. Average consumer gave up on discs, isn't interested in using any software on a PC, yet feels entitled to full idiot-proof HDTV-quality cable timeshifting for just pennies a day: once they tasted the subscription PVR, there was no turning back. Meanwhile, they hypocritically become Einsteins when it suits them: if they want to snag a movie or TV show or porn out of the "cloud," suddenly they're capable working a suite of half-dozen conversion tools. We in the middle who don't mind putting in a bit of effort, and do want the occasional disc copy without having to tie up our PC, are forced to geek out or give up and join the PVR herd. Neither is ideal.

And some "progress" results in retrograde steps to some degree: affordable BluRay players may have finally buried DVD players, but most BD players make lousy DVD players. This renders millions of otherwise perfectly-good near-HD-quality DVDs people have in their libraries more obsolete than they need to be. Plus BD players are much harder to region-hack for playback of rare or OOP discs. DVD still had a lot of utility left, but is being hustled out the door prematurely. Considering BD doesn't have a prayer of a chance of an ice cube in hell to amass the accumulated quantity of existing DVDs still in use, you would think electronics mfrs would offer some optimizations for DVD playback in their BD players (at least in more-expensive models). But no.

Aw, you know I was just ribbing you! I meant to put in a smiley face so you'd know I was kidding, but forgot, so here it is now:. No one knows how you feel more than me: when Pioneer went belly up a few years ago I wore black armbands for a month. As a Panasonic fan, at least you're dealing with a viable company that might eventually return to the USA with a product you want. Pioneer, unfortunately, is gone forever- and they took Sony down with them (I really think Sony had planned to use Pioneer BD/HDD designs, just as they had for their immensely successful DVD/HDD series, but when Pioneer died Sony just gave up and told Panasonic to run with the ball alone).

After doing a little more research into Panasonics's current Euro/Aus/NZ lineup, you might discover they're not quite as nice as they initially appear. Several of the "amazing" models we discussed a few months ago are discontinued. Just like in North America, where the EZ series was but a pale derivative of the EH models, the current "foreign" Panasonics fall short of previous offerings. The shift to greater HDTV penetration in the global broadcast markets coupled with the endlessly stalled economy seems to have thrown Panasonic a curveball. Corners have been cut, with features and functionality dropped to meet certain mfr cost requirements or retail price points.

The most frequent complaints on European AV forums involve formerly-common features being scrapped or cut back in such a way that Panasonic can waffle about them in ads or shelf cards, leading you to think they're still included, until you get the recorder home and try to use it. You then discover the instruction books this year are 10x more inscrutable than last years models, with more asterisks and vague fine print disclaimers than you've ever seen in your life. Simple things you took for granted like HS dubbing a DVD (or even a BD) aren't even possible except within very narrow parameters no normal use would fit. From what I gather, just trying to use the dual tuner feature can induce alcoholism.

So don't be too envious of other countries' Panasonics: believe it or not, our generic "grey market import" EH59 and EH-69 are probably more usable and practical day-to-day. We should only hope Panasonic doesn't try to "upgrade" them (or worse, drop them). The mass mfr exodus from DVD/HDD (or BD/HDD) recorders that began in North America back in 2007 has finally spread everywhere else: Panasonic is about the only brand left still bothering. Not sure how much longer they will continue: Europe/Australia/NZ are turning rapidly toward HDD-only recorders, mostly made by brands we've never heard of here. Much as I hate it that Kelson is right, he IS right: discs are dead, outside of PC authoring.