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Samsung D series FBr fix discussion - Page 42

post #1231 of 1615
Quote:
Originally Posted by leftyguitar1963 View Post

My PN51E490 has this problem too. And this is the only 2012 Sammy w/out a f/w upd8 available. The only reason I bought this is because Samsung reps @ CES 2012 mentioned that the fbr issued had been resolved, NOT on mine it hasn't! mad.gif

It seems they fixed the brightness pops from what I saw at Fry's yesterday. Maybe the floating blacks are still present on certain viewing material.
post #1232 of 1615
Brightness pops or ABL issues still exisit on the E series, floating blacks do not.
post #1233 of 1615
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soopermario View Post

So about 850 hours and the FBR is back. When did you notice it? How many hours approximately before you looked after the 850 / 878 hours?
And we need people with their hours who don't notice FBR after the logic board fix. If there are people with 900+ hours and no FBR you can hope that it will soon be gone. But if even with 1000+ hours the FBR is still there than maybe it's not the logic board software that causes it.
The hours you noticed normaly have to be the ones from the first power on of the panel. But if the logic board update resets the hours then it will be more difficult to compare different set's.
Did someone look after the MRT-entry in logic menu after the fix? Does it stay unchanged or is it reset?
If we know all this we can make further speculations.


Soopermario,

The MRT on my 64D7000 reads 1258 and I have had absolutely no brightness popping since updating the logic FW on a new replacement panel which included a new logic board..

BTW, where did you find that the value of MRT represents the hours on the panel? I have not seen that information anywhere and zoyd previously stated that he did not know what it represented.


@BShmal and JMUdukes: What version software have you installed?


Oh. yes. This thread is devoted to the D models not the E series.

Larry
post #1234 of 1615
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaveBoy View Post

It's hilarious how much more appealing LCDs would be if they produced the same motion handeling of a plasma. If that were the case i wouldn't go plasma ever again. For gaming, LCD's offer a cleaner and brighter image with Zero auto dimming, and no picture glare. It's just the bloody awful motion handeling(possible screen clouding as well hehe) that basically becomes the deal breaker for so many people out there including me and of course the generally weak black levels unless you opt for a higher end set.
Maybe i'm just destined to game on a 32" CRT Tube TV, ever since i jumped into HDTV land as far as gaming is concerned(input lag, auto dimming or LCD motion smearing) i've been very frustrated...
Give me a plasma for movies and i'm good to go, but for gaming both technoligies are flawed. I want a Super OLED damnit. tongue.gif

Dude, you made two posts in this thread that have nothing to do with fbr or Samsung. Take your crap elsewhere, man. This is not a led vs plasma thread nor is it on Panasonic. Piss off.
post #1235 of 1615
What is being called "brightness pops" on the E series is not the same as that on the D series. The D models had/have what could be described as a rapid manual increase and decrease of the Brightness control. The E series seems to have a problem that could be described as a rapid changing of the Contrast control. The two effects are totally different.

It is unfortunate that there is a lack of true technical input over in the E series threads.


Larry
post #1236 of 1615
51D7000 purchased in February... Applied fix when brand new... 2150 hours now on set... haven't seen FBr ever... knocking on wood now.
post #1237 of 1615
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcalabria View Post

51D7000 purchased in February... Applied fix when brand new... 2150 hours now on set... haven't seen FBr ever... knocking on wood now.


What is the MRT value that corresponds with the 2150 hours? That information will help understand what MRT is.

No need to go into the service menu to get it. Just perform a mute-7-3-7-enter sequence. Turn off the TV to get rid of the on-screen list. (Sometimes you have to do this sequence immediately after powering on to get it to work.)


Larry
post #1238 of 1615
Actually, the MRT is 2150 (from Mute-7-3-7-Enter). I assumed that was the hours directly, but now I see your earlier post indicating that it increments for every two hours of use. That would not be possible as that would require an average of almost 26 hours a day. If it was straight 1:1 hours, that would average just under 13 hours a day... close to my guestimate of ~12 hours /day, so I didn't question it being a 1:1 relationship.

confused.gif
Edited by jcalabria - 7/21/12 at 7:34pm
post #1239 of 1615
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Yes, MRT definitely is a timer and its value increments every 2 hours of TV on-time.
BTW my panel's temperature is 315K and ambient room is 298K. biggrin.gif
Larry

Haven't looked into it myself Larry, but this was your take a few weeks ago. There is also a counter only accessible by the service remote which shows run time, but can be reset to zero by factory reset.
Soopermario, a simple search of the last page or two of this thread will show you that the MRT value is unaffected by logic board update or reset.
post #1240 of 1615
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcalabria View Post

Actually, the MRT is 2150 (from Mute-7-3-7-Enter). I assumed that was the hours directly, but now I see that your earlier post indicating that it increments for every two hours of use. That would not be possible as that would require an average of almost 26 hours a day. If it was straight 1:1 hours, that would average just under 13 hours a day... close to my guestimate of ~12 hours /day, so I didn't question it being a 1:1 relationship.
confused.gif

Agreed, my MRT value couldn't possibly be half the runtime. Actual runtime in hours seems plausible... good to know.
post #1241 of 1615
Quote:
Originally Posted by Icon13 View Post

Dude, you made two posts in this thread that have nothing to do with fbr or Samsung. Take your crap elsewhere, man. This is not a led vs plasma thread nor is it on Panasonic. Piss off.

Maturity at it's finest. what a little sweetheart you are. lmao
And I wasn't gearing towards a 'plasma Vs LCD/LED' discussion. I think it's
flat out hilarious to be biased towards a TV technology in the first place.
But you're right, I've got a panasonic so no need to post any further. sigh*
post #1242 of 1615
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcalabria View Post

Actually, the MRT is 2150 (from Mute-7-3-7-Enter). I assumed that was the hours directly, but now I see that your earlier post indicating that it increments for every two hours of use. That would not be possible as that would require an average of almost 26 hours a day. If it was straight 1:1 hours, that would average just under 13 hours a day... close to my guestimate of ~12 hours /day, so I didn't question it being a 1:1 relationship.
confused.gif

Actually, it increments by 2 for every two hours of on time. In other words, it is about a 1:1 relationship.

Larry
post #1243 of 1615
Quote:
Originally Posted by AvidHiker View Post

Haven't looked into it myself Larry, but this was your take a few weeks ago. There is also a counter only accessible by the service remote which shows run time, but can be reset to zero by factory reset.
Soopermario, a simple search of the last page or two of this thread will show you that the MRT value is unaffected by logic board update or reset.


Hiker,

Yes, the MRT value does not change when the logic FW is updated. On the other hand, the value of MRT changes when the panel (which includes logic board) is replaced. MRT on my D7000 read 1660 in February before the swap-out in March and right now reads 1566. So the MRT value has some connection with the age of the panel. Unfortunately, I did not take a reading immediately after the panel was replaced.

Larry
post #1244 of 1615
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

BTW, where did you find that the value of MRT represents the hours on the panel? I have not seen that information anywhere and zoyd previously stated that he did not know what it represented.

I found out the same way you did I think. I had mine for a month until the panel was replaced. Before I looked every few days in the service menu after the hours. Later I've noticed, that MRT is always nearly the same as the used hours in the service menu. After the panel was replaced I wondered because the service menu showed still the hours from the first panel, but MRT was very low, I think it was under 10. A little later the hours in the service menu correct themselves to the MRT value, don't know how. A while later I found out that the hours in the service menu are reset by "factory reset", but the MRT does not. And the MRT value seems to be right, because I know my hours. I count them.. have a little of a memory of numbers.
post #1245 of 1615
Mario,

I follow your postings over at the UK AVForums site. If you mentioned that you had your panel replaced, I must have missed it. Sorry.

Cheers,
Larry
post #1246 of 1615
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

What is being called "brightness pops" on the E series is not the same as that on the D series. The D models had/have what could be described as a rapid manual increase and decrease of the Brightness control. The E series seems to have a problem that could be described as a rapid changing of the Contrast control. The two effects are totally different.
It is unfortunate that there is a lack of true technical input over in the E series threads.
Larry

So is the consensus that the E models are better/worse than the D series in this regard? Or are the effects just different?

I'll have to give it a bit longer to see if this is going to be a big issue for me. So far I've only seen it happen on Breaking Bad episodes and maybe briefly on other content.

Really odd.
post #1247 of 1615
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMUdukes07 View Post

So is the consensus that the E models are better/worse than the D series in this regard? Or are the effects just different?
I'll have to give it a bit longer to see if this is going to be a big issue for me. So far I've only seen it happen on Breaking Bad episodes and maybe briefly on other content.
Really odd.

Can't tell you if the E series is better than the D in this regard, but IMO there is certainly an issue with what appears to be fluctuating brightnes. This link describes the issue in more detail.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1416080/samsung-e8000-abl-function
Edited by jav1 - 7/22/12 at 8:22pm
post #1248 of 1615
Both of the new Breaking Bad episodes have numerous, distracting floating blacks. Example, when Mike is questioned by the DEA and gets up to leave the room, watch his jacket on the right side of the screen while he is asked additional questions. At this point I have had it with this TV, time to call Samsung... Again frown.gif
post #1249 of 1615
Quote:
Originally Posted by Icon13 View Post

I do not think your new fbr problem is related to accumulated usage of the TV. Certain material has unstable black levels on these sets. Period! I noticed it on Sons of Anarchy, but only certain scenes. That was back when i first updated the logic board too, with minimal hours on this set. Unfortunately, I believe it has just taken you longer to stumble across the content that will show fbr. I have also noticed this on Breaking Bad tv broadcast as well as certain scenes in movies. NOBODY WANTS TO LISTEN TO ME AND START A CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT AND GET ALL BRAND NEW E SERIES. I saw the Pn64e7000 yesterday in Fry's and it seemed to handle black levels very stable on content where I would expect the D series to have trouble.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Icon13 View Post

Both of the new Breaking Bad episodes have numerous, distracting floating blacks. Example, when Mike is questioned by the DEA and gets up to leave the room, watch his jacket on the right side of the screen while he is asked additional questions. At this point I have had it with this TV, time to call Samsung... Again frown.gif

Not everyone is experiencing the same issue and it is NOT because we have not "stumbled across" the right material to expose it. This morning I went back and rewatched the BB scene you referenced and found no brightness artifacts of any kind. That does not mean that I don't believe that you see them... but you can't assume that we all do and then get upset because we're not all clamoring for new sets. I like my D7000 very much and would not want to unnecessarily take the chance on any new set that could bring me problems that I do not have now. (Not to mention that a class-action suit, even if successful, would more likely yield a $50 coupon off your next Samsung purchase than a complete new TV).
Edited by jcalabria - 7/23/12 at 8:20am
post #1250 of 1615
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Mario,
I follow your postings over at the UK AVForums site. If you mentioned that you had your panel replaced, I must have missed it. Sorry.
Cheers,
Larry

I'm not sure if I mentioned the panel replacement in AVForums, but I did in the Hifi-Forum biggrin.gif
Since I have my D6900 I'm crossreading and crossposting on several forums to found out what were going on with my set and so on. rolleyes.gif
post #1251 of 1615
It's interesting that the few of us that have noticed FBR or Pops once again are all watching Breaking Bad. It's also True Blood where it's much more prominent. I'll admit I hadn't watched either show since the fix and that's when i started noticing the pops once again when I started watching them. The STRANGEST thing is that it's not just brightness INCREASE. It will increase in some scenes and DECREASE in others. Good example is the last scene of Breaking Bad this week with Skyler in the bed. I get rapid fluctuations during that scene. Mostly pops though so I turned down the brightness a ton and they went away. I go back to True Blood and there are scenes where it increases and decreases. Prior to the firmware fix I could only recall scenes getting brighter, not the other way around. I will check my usage when I get home but I'm so disappointed that this issue has returned in any form....

People who haven't had it return - are you using 1026? ON the 59D8000 anyway.
That's what I'm using.
post #1252 of 1615
I just cannot believe the people who do not see the floating blacks. I believe you do not know what to look for. The black levels fluctuate. This is different than the brightness pops we all got out of the box. Watch that BB scene again. Mike's jacket when his back is to you on the right hand side of the screen does not hold a stable shade of black. It does at times so pay attention when Hank says, "He's not impressed Gomi." That is when the majority of them in this scene are visible. Also, you have to watch in a completely dark room to see it. I just watched the scene over with daylight coming into the room and cannot see it as clearly as last night. However, nighttime viewing is ruined because its so damn distracting.
Edited by Icon13 - 7/23/12 at 2:04pm
post #1253 of 1615
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHummrich View Post

It's interesting that the few of us that have noticed FBR or Pops once again are all watching Breaking Bad. It's also True Blood where it's much more prominent. I'll admit I hadn't watched either show since the fix and that's when i started noticing the pops once again when I started watching them. The STRANGEST thing is that it's not just brightness INCREASE. It will increase in some scenes and DECREASE in others. Good example is the last scene of Breaking Bad this week with Skyler in the bed. I get rapid fluctuations during that scene. Mostly pops though so I turned down the brightness a ton and they went away. I go back to True Blood and there are scenes where it increases and decreases. Prior to the firmware fix I could only recall scenes getting brighter, not the other way around. I will check my usage when I get home but I'm so disappointed that this issue has returned in any form....
People who haven't had it return - are you using 1026? ON the 59D8000 anyway.
That's what I'm using.
I totally saw exactly what you saw on my PN64D7000 on the following firmwares... 1013, 1014.6 and 1016.2
post #1254 of 1615
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcalabria View Post

Not everyone is experiencing the same issue and it is NOT because we have not "stumbled across" the right material to expose it. This morning I went back and rewatched the BB scene you referenced and found no brightness artifacts of any kind. That does not mean that I don't believe that you see them... but you can't assume that we all do and then get upset because we're not all clamoring for new sets. I like my D7000 very much and would not want to unnecessarily take the chance on any new set that could bring me problems that I do not have now. (Not to mention that a class-action suit, even if successful, would more likely yield a $50 coupon off your next Samsung purchase than a complete new TV).
Can you provide us with:

1) Model number as it appears on the back of your TV
2) Firmware version
3) Logic board firmware
4) Panel type
5) Manufacture Date

I just downloaded Zoyd's FBR test material from the first post. Yes, I still see plenty of fluctuations of black levels after the logic update. Can you also check yours using the same material IN A DARK ROOM please? Yes, the update did help with much of the brightness pops, but performance is still not at an acceptable level for me as blacks still fluctuate. I just put in a service call with Samsung, so maybe with a few part swaps, and a logic board update using the 1014.6 USB Samsung actually sent me things will get better, but I am not holding my breath.
post #1255 of 1615
You are going to be a man on a lonely mission.

My TV:

1) PN64D7000FFXZA
2) Currently T-MST5AUS - 10014.6. Previously 1013.1, 1014.2, 1014.6. 1015.0. 1016.2.
3) 11-11-04
4) DS
5) Various. Original TV April 2011 but with two panel replacements.

Absolutely no FBr since installing the fix. The FW fix worked with panel #2 from 1/26/2012 to 3/15/2012 until the panel replacement and now since 3/15/2012 with panel #3.

There is a very small slow change in black side or top bars when watching non-16:9 sources. This change which is normal after applying the logic fix is not detrimental to viewing. I measure this change as 0.008 ftL minimum to 0.012 ftL maximum. To my somewhat critical eye, this slowly changing black level is masked by the viewing material and unobtrusive.

Larry
post #1256 of 1615
1) Model number as it appears on the back of your TV
PN51D7000FFXZA Version N506

2) Firmware version
1016.2

3) Logic board firmware
11-10-31

4) Panel type
DS / 57

5) Manufacture Date
November 2011
post #1257 of 1615
Thread Starter 
All d-series black levels float, that's clearly stated in the first post.
post #1258 of 1615
MRT is 1008.
BTW- Is there any way to get out of this menu without turning off the TV?
post #1259 of 1615
Are you people talking about a return of the fluctuating blacks at some time after eliminating them with the logic FW fix? Or are you talking about floating blacks which exist to some level or another on all plasma TVs?

I am interpreting the comments as relating to the return of the fluctuating blacks or, in other words, the brightness "pops." Please correct me if I am wrong.


Larry
post #1260 of 1615
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Are you people talking about a return of the fluctuating blacks at some time after eliminating them with the logic FW fix? Or are you talking about floating blacks which exist to some level or another on all plasma TVs?
I am interpreting the comments as relating to the return of the fluctuating blacks or, in other words, the brightness "pops." Please correct me if I am wrong.
Larry
I find it hard to believe that my black levels would be considered normal for plasma considering what they are doing. I also believe that this distraction at this level when present would stop anybody from buying a plasma, including you. I am not being picky either. In one scene the fluctuations were rapid to the point where it looked like flickering. It is not in all content, but when it appears it is very distracting. Do you watch Breaking Bad, Larry? If not, can you DVR this week's past episode anyways and see if you see what I see? We have the same TV, so your help would be greatly appreciated.
Edited by Icon13 - 7/23/12 at 8:08pm
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