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Samsung D series FBr fix discussion - Page 44

post #1291 of 1615
Larry,

I was only pointing out that my set reacted in that same manner as yours only when I did apply your settings. One small pop in that scene, but plenty more in the episode. The pops are much more present in the factory default settings on all picture modes, which is why I know this is not due to custom settings.

All apologies if you feel I have stepped on your toes; I just thought you would be curious to see if your set fluctuates on factory presets like mine in that scene.

It truly is a burning question of mine, and the last one I had mad.gif because then I can confirm that my set is behaving "normally." If you ever choose to get back to me on this you can try standard mode on that scene to avoid resetting your movie mode. It is only a few minutes of your time. And yes, you do not have to, but I would greatly appreciate it. After all, isn't the whole point of this thread to get to the bottom of this thing? Again, thank you very much for your help. Tech comes Wednesday confused.gif

PS. I know you know what you are talking about. You and Zoyd are about the most credible people on AVS. I am simply looking for more data to support my tech visit Wednesday.
Edited by Icon13 - 7/27/12 at 4:20pm
post #1292 of 1615
Just read your last post again. Seems as though that you watched the entire episode, not just the scene, and saw no other pops. If I am understanding this correctly, then I guess it appears my burning question is answered since I saw them in other scenes using your settings and you did not. I hope this is true. Again, thanks you for you diligence in helping out a perfect stranger biggrin.gif I GOT A BAD BAG OF WEED WITH SEEDS AND STEMS IN IT!
post #1293 of 1615
You need to relax a bit man, and not be so confrontational. Maybe test for paraquat.

Oh, and if you think you can reason with or have any form of constructive conversation with a Samsun technician, then you may be in for a rude awakening. Of course, you could get lucky...
post #1294 of 1615
Do not think I have been confrontational at all. But thanks for the tip.
Edited by Icon13 - 7/27/12 at 10:13pm
post #1295 of 1615
Brightness pops have returned on my 64 inch d8000 plasma (Australian version) after months of FBr free viewing.

I applied the logic board firmware fix a few months back thanks to this thread and was really happy the brightness pops were literally no more. As others have mentioned recently the issue has some how come back - i've checked (and reapplied) the logic board firmware and even used the Samygo method to downgrade the firmware through the TV menu (back to 1015)...may have helped a bit with poor black levels but I am still getting FBr. At a loss now - here's hoping some of the brains in this thread sort it out.

Update... just had a play around and seems setting Cell light to maximum (20) and pulling back Contrast to compensate Fbr has been dramatically improved.
Edited by Rai33 - 7/28/12 at 11:38am
post #1296 of 1615
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rai33 View Post

Brightness pops have returned on my 64 inch d8000 plasma (Australian version) after months of FBr free viewing.
I applied the logic board firmware fix a few months back thanks to this thread and was really happy the brightness pops were literally no more. As others have mentioned recently the issue has some how come back - i've checked (and reapplied) the logic board firmware and even used the Samygo method to downgrade the firmware through the TV menu (back to 1015)...may have helped a bit with poor black levels but I am still getting FBr. At a loss now - here's hoping some of the brains in this thread sort it out.
Update... just had a play around and seems setting Cell light to maximum (20) and pulling back Contrast to compensate Fbr has been dramatically improved.
If you are having FBr I suggest calling it in to Samsung. If we do not report this problem in masses, they will never fix it. Make Samsung aware of their mistake or forever hold your peace. I have done my part, and now it is up to the rest of you. It is the only practical way.

Even if your warranty is expired, make that call! Many times corporations will extend warranties or have recalls if they see a large enough trend. Do not hold your breath though.
Edited by Icon13 - 7/28/12 at 1:07pm
post #1297 of 1615
Quote:
Originally Posted by killerz298 View Post

Unfortunately I am back to this thread after about 4 months of pop-free viewing. Today was the first time I saw the fluctuations since I installed the FW fix. I was watching a downloaded HD episode of Weeds. A Distinctive Horn Season 5, Episode 8. The fluctuations started occurring at the end of the episode during the bris scene. I will keep my eye out for any further issues but if I see 1 fluctuation in 4 months that is good enough for me.

It happened on a few more episodes of Weeds and I recently watched a blu-ray rip of Friends With Benefits (don't judge me, Mila is hot as hell!) and I saw fluctuations in a few scenes towards the end and in 1 particular spot it kind of freaked out and was doing rapid pops. The rest of the movie was fine though.

As I said, the issue is not noticeable that frequently and is much better than before I did the firmware fix. While I wish this set was completely free of the pops I guess I will have to live with it like this. Is anyone else still having infrequent pops after the firmware fix?
post #1298 of 1615
It's disappointing that my pops have reappeared - for a few months I thought I had a truly spectacular television. I was watching Batman Begins last night on BD and the pops were very noticeable in certain scenes and carried over to the black bars.

Not sure what caused them to reappear but it's very disappointing - the picture on my 59D7000 is really amazing when the pops aren't presenting themselves.
post #1299 of 1615
Quote:
Originally Posted by killerz298 View Post

It happened on a few more episodes of Weeds and I recently watched a blu-ray rip of Friends With Benefits (don't judge me, Mila is hot as hell!) and I saw fluctuations in a few scenes towards the end and in 1 particular spot it kind of freaked out and was doing rapid pops. The rest of the movie was fine though.
As I said, the issue is not noticeable that frequently and is much better than before I did the firmware fix. While I wish this set was completely free of the pops I guess I will have to live with it like this. Is anyone else still having infrequent pops after the firmware fix?
Do not "just live with this." If your TV was purchased within a year it is under warranty and you have the right as a consumer to have Samsung send a tech out to attempt a fix. Even if your set was purchased over a year ago, at least call Samsung and give them an earful. Like I said, if enough of us complain perhaps Samsung will respond. This will be in the form of either a recall or extended warranty. The ones who say nothing and just live with it will be the reason we will never get a true fix.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMUdukes07 View Post

It's disappointing that my pops have reappeared - for a few months I thought I had a truly spectacular television. I was watching Batman Begins last night on BD and the pops were very noticeable in certain scenes and carried over to the black bars.
Not sure what caused them to reappear but it's very disappointing - the picture on my 59D7000 is really amazing when the pops aren't presenting themselves.
Just as I expected. Batman does pop. I was going to suggest somebody try it out. I have become very familiar with what type of material pops. How disappointing frown.gif
post #1300 of 1615
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMUdukes07 View Post

It's disappointing that my pops have reappeared - for a few months I thought I had a truly spectacular television. I was watching Batman Begins last night on BD and the pops were very noticeable in certain scenes and carried over to the black bars.
Not sure what caused them to reappear but it's very disappointing - the picture on my 59D7000 is really amazing when the pops aren't presenting themselves.
So it looks like this isn't just isolated to me. Anyone have any idea as to what made the pops reappear? I haven't done another update on the tv since updating the FW so why should they just reappear seemingly out of nowhere?
post #1301 of 1615
I think you guys can forget about getting any further with this issue here, or with Samsung. Perhaps if you're persistant, you may get somewhere with a warranty claim and end up with an E (which also pops to some degree as evidenced in a recent review).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rai33 View Post

Brightness pops have returned on my 64 inch d8000 plasma (Australian version) after months of FBr free viewing.
I applied the logic board firmware fix a few months back thanks to this thread and was really happy the brightness pops were literally no more. As others have mentioned recently the issue has some how come back - i've checked (and reapplied) the logic board firmware and even used the Samygo method to downgrade the firmware through the TV menu (back to 1015)...may have helped a bit with poor black levels but I am still getting FBr. At a loss now - here's hoping some of the brains in this thread sort it out.
Update... just had a play around and seems setting Cell light to maximum (20) and pulling back Contrast to compensate Fbr has been dramatically improved.

Based on recent information from a Samsung insider, you should use a cell setting of 20 for optimal performance anyway. Note that this will skew the 10pt adjustments, so grayscale calibration gets trickier unless you make additional SM adjustments.
post #1302 of 1615
@Killer - Read the last 3-5 pages. There are many others who have this annoying problem. Please contact Samsung and report it. If your set in under warranty you will get a service visit.

@Adivid - Thanks for the tip, but unfortunately I use cell light 20 already.

As per CNET review on E series:

"Two issues from last year -- brightness pops and a black-level rise in 1080p/24 material -- didn't arise in my testing. I checked "Bram Stoker's Dracula" and "Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone" for pops as seen on the 2011 D8000 and D7000 plasmas and in neither case did the PNE8000 pop at the picture settings I used for the review (due to what I saw in 3D testing, below, I have a hunch that Samsung may have intentionally limited light output to cure the "pops"). Black levels remained nearly identical regardless of whether 1080p/24 (CinemaSmooth) mode was engaged."
post #1303 of 1615
Quote:
Originally Posted by AvidHiker View Post


[snip]

Based on recent information from a Samsung insider, you should use a cell setting of 20 for optimal performance anyway. Note that this will skew the 10pt adjustments, so grayscale calibration gets trickier unless you make additional SM adjustments.

A bit off topic but just for clarification: For these D series Samsungs, changing the Cell setting has very little effect on the grayscale tracking. Howerver, changing the Contrast setting results in a significant change.

I think that this is the post where you got the information about setting the Cell Light to its maximum value of 20: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1409186/backlight-and-contrast-adjustment#post_22091726. That implies that if Cell is left at 20 and one uses the Contrast to change overall picture 'brightness' for say day and night viewing, the grayscale will only be correct for one Contrast setting. Because of this, I use my calibrated Movie mode with Contrast adjusted to give a max output of about 25 ftL for my night viewing and I use my calibrated CAL-day mode with Contrast adjusted to give a max output of about 33 ftL for my day viewing. Cell is set at 20 for both modes.

Larry
post #1304 of 1615
Just got my panel replaced today smile.gif

Different original logic SW version than my old panel :

Previous panel ( before the Fbr update ) 11-02-23 :



New panel 11-06-17 :



That doesn't make sense, I bought my panel September 11, factory made August 11 and I didn't have the June 11 logic board SW...

Bad news FBr is back and I mean REALLY BACK !

For those who think it's back some times after this thread logic board update, you must be wrong guys. I could not remember how bad this original FBr was ! What a shame it is mad.gif !

Good news, the tech was a very friendly guy, he left me the old ( not so old by the way, 2K hours isn't so old wink.gif ) panel, including old updated logic board and power supply biggrin.gif

So now I nearly have one other set and I can test/mix differents things like differents logic board tongue.gif

I'll do some tests after the new panel hit 200-300 hours and I'll keep you in touch of course.
post #1305 of 1615
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinNash View Post

That doesn't make sense, I bought my panel September 11, factory made August 11 and I didn't have the June 11 logic board SW...

Makes sense to me, the factory just put's in logic boards available at the time, maybe they have lot's of unused stock from early in the year. Why don't you update it with November 11 firmware?
post #1306 of 1615
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

A bit off topic but just for clarification: For these D series Samsungs, changing the Cell setting has very little effect on the grayscale tracking. Howerver, changing the Contrast setting results in a significant change.
I think that this is the post where you got the information about setting the Cell Light to its maximum value of 20: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1409186/backlight-and-contrast-adjustment#post_22091726. That implies that if Cell is left at 20 and one uses the Contrast to change overall picture 'brightness' for say day and night viewing, the grayscale will only be correct for one Contrast setting. Because of this, I use my calibrated Movie mode with Contrast adjusted to give a max output of about 25 ftL for my night viewing and I use my calibrated CAL-day mode with Contrast adjusted to give a max output of about 33 ftL for my day viewing. Cell is set at 20 for both modes.
Larry

Yep, that's it. Thanks for the clarification, Larry.
post #1307 of 1615
Quote:
Originally Posted by Icon13 View Post

...As per CNET review on E series:
"Two issues from last year -- brightness pops and a black-level rise in 1080p/24 material -- didn't arise in my testing. I checked "Bram Stoker's Dracula" and "Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone" for pops as seen on the 2011 D8000 and D7000 plasmas and in neither case did the PNE8000 pop at the picture settings I used for the review (due to what I saw in 3D testing, below, I have a hunch that Samsung may have intentionally limited light output to cure the "pops"). Black levels remained nearly identical regardless of whether 1080p/24 (CinemaSmooth) mode was engaged."

There have been scattered complaints of FBr in the E series thread, but nothing like the D. Could be the same "residual pops" some of us are seeing on our D sets. This recent review of an E6500 in the UK even proved they could occur under certain circumstances (check out "Performance"):

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1400627/official-samsung-pnxxe7000-pnxxe8000-owners-thread/2100#post_22254107
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinNash View Post

...For those who think it's back some times after this thread logic board update, you must be wrong guys. I could not remember how bad this original FBr was...

I don't think most of us are saying the FBr is anywhere near as bad as it was originally, just that there is still some visible effect in certain material.
post #1308 of 1615
Quote:
Originally Posted by AvidHiker View Post

There have been scattered complaints of FBr in the E series thread, but nothing like the D. Could be the same "residual pops" some of us are seeing on our D sets. This recent review of an E6500 in the UK even proved they could occur under certain circumstances (check out "Performance"):
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1400627/official-samsung-pnxxe7000-pnxxe8000-owners-thread/2100#post_22254107
I don't think most of us are saying the FBr is anywhere near as bad as it was originally, just that there is still some visible effect in certain material.
Yeah mine is nowhere near as bad as it was. I couldn't watch anything without seeing it before I did the FW fix but then I didn't see it AT ALL for a bit but now it is back occasionally but not nearly as intense.
post #1309 of 1615
Quote:
Originally Posted by AvidHiker View Post

I don't think most of us are saying the FBr is anywhere near as bad as it was originally, just that there is still some visible effect in certain material.

Quote:
Originally Posted by killerz298 View Post

Yeah mine is nowhere near as bad as it was. I couldn't watch anything without seeing it before I did the FW fix but then I didn't see it AT ALL for a bit but now it is back occasionally but not nearly as intense.

That's what I thinked, i wanted to reassure you about the infamous original FBr

Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

Makes sense to me, the factory just put's in logic boards available at the time, maybe they have lot's of unused stock from early in the year. Why don't you update it with November 11 firmware?

I dare not zoyd, if you remember, on my old panel the November 11 firmware lowered my black level ( that was a good thing ) but introduced a lot of pixels misfires. I can't be really sure if it's because the November 11 logicboard update or not.

I think I'll try to put my old logivboard ( who has the November 11 firmware ) on my new panel, in that case I can revert back if somethong goes wrong.

Do you think it's a good idea ?
post #1310 of 1615
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinNash View Post


I dare not zoyd, if you remember, on my old panel the November 11 firmware lowered my black level ( that was a good thing ) but introduced a lot of pixels misfires. I can't be really sure if it's because the November 11 logicboard update or not.

I think I'll try to put my old logivboard ( who has the November 11 firmware ) on my new panel, in that case I can revert back if somethong goes wrong.

Do you think it's a good idea ?

hehe - forgot about that. Good idea to test the old board first, you may get lucky and not have the same misfire problem.
post #1311 of 1615
^ I thought you could eliminate the pixel misfires by adjusting the yrr pot. At least that way you do not have to keep a popping tv in the event that the old board causes this problems again.
post #1312 of 1615
about to embark on third repair ticket due to the fact when they replaced panel first time they must have put a bad or wrong blutooth transmitter for the 3D. Well the 3D works but the cross talk is unbearable. I'm also experiencing pops far worse then I ever did before applying the firmware fix and the black levels on the "new" panel are terrible, worse then the cheapest sidelit LCD.

I'll say this too. If they don't have this tv fixed to the level it was when I bought it minus the pops they're going to have to call the united nations and get a binding resolution to keep me from destroying them.

this will be the last samsung product I ever own.


fyi I own a pn51d550
post #1313 of 1615
So, the tech came yesterday. This is how Samsung is addressing brightness pops on my PN64D7000: The tech showed up with a USB stick and a box containing a mainboard. He claimed that the USB stick had 1016.2 & logic update (he actually stated 1016.4, but I think he was confused for 1014.6, maybe he meant 1014.6?). I believe that the mainboard was just in case I had already upgraded my firmware. As we know, there is no official way to downgrade. In that case he would have swapped the mainboards in order to perform the update.

He checked to see if my system and logic firmware were up to date. They are. I showed him some of the pops I still am getting. I was informed that he had never seen these types of pops. He thought he was coming out to fix the "Big Pops," he called them, from straight out of the box. So Samsung has acknowledged this problem and has a procedure for fixing sets which have been previously upgraded.

He found it strange, but said the thing that worried him is that when the picture mode is changed the pops should appear at different times in comparison; indicating that the problem is in the logic board. I told him he hit the nail on the head. I showed him that my set did in fact do exactly that. I am awaiting parts now.

My tech was hella cool, and actually listened to me and tried to understand the problem/cause tongue.gif
post #1314 of 1615
Quote:
Originally Posted by makinbiscuits View Post

about to embark on third repair ticket due to the fact when they replaced panel first time they must have put a bad or wrong blutooth transmitter for the 3D. Well the 3D works but the cross talk is unbearable. I'm also experiencing pops far worse then I ever did before applying the firmware fix and the black levels on the "new" panel are terrible, worse then the cheapest sidelit LCD.
I'll say this too. If they don't have this tv fixed to the level it was when I bought it minus the pops they're going to have to call the united nations and get a binding resolution to keep me from destroying them.
this will be the last samsung product I ever own.
fyi I own a pn51d550

I have EXACTLY the same thing with my new PS51D550 panel !

The blacks are clearly " gray " and the pops far worse too.

I'll do some tests this week-ends, including meter measurements and exchange with my updated Logicboard.

Did you keep your old panel and logicboard like me or did the tech took it ?
post #1315 of 1615
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinNash View Post

I have EXACTLY the same thing with my new PS51D550 panel !
The blacks are clearly " gray " and the pops far worse too.
I'll do some tests this week-ends, including meter measurements and exchange with my updated Logicboard.
Did you keep your old panel and logicboard like me or did the tech took it ?

no, he took the old panel and board with him. When I called samsung CS today I didn't even have to ask to be put in for an escalated ticket, after I told her what was going on after two repairs she transferred me right over. After they reviewed everything in the escalated dept. the guy I was speaking to submitted my ticket to corporate for full product replacement (a new tv). He said it will take about 3-5 days for them to review and make me an offer. He wouldn't get into specifics what the offer is but I'd imagine it'll either be a pn51d550 or an upgraded D series. The only thing I won't accept is another d550 which he said he doubts they would because they probably don't have any inventory left of those. Who knows, maybe they'll give me a couple choices. I might even play a little hardball with them so they'll give me an upgrade just to shut me up but we'll see what they offer first. wink.gif


All I know is I'll be so happy to get this TV out of my house. It was a good tv for a couple months but after the initial problem and then the garbage panel they replaced it with they can't get it out of here fast enough.

If you're still under warranty and they've had a tech come out a couple times insist on a replacement if they don't offer it to you.
post #1316 of 1615
Quote:
Originally Posted by makinbiscuits View Post

no, he took the old panel and board with him. When I called samsung CS today I didn't even have to ask to be put in for an escalated ticket, after I told her what was going on after two repairs she transferred me right over. After they reviewed everything in the escalated dept. the guy I was speaking to submitted my ticket to corporate for full product replacement (a new tv). He said it will take about 3-5 days for them to review and make me an offer. He wouldn't get into specifics what the offer is but I'd imagine it'll either be a pn51d550 or an upgraded D series. The only thing I won't accept is another d550 which he said he doubts they would because they probably don't have any inventory left of those. Who knows, maybe they'll give me a couple choices. I might even play a little hardball with them so they'll give me an upgrade just to shut me up but we'll see what they offer first. wink.gif
All I know is I'll be so happy to get this TV out of my house. It was a good tv for a couple months but after the initial problem and then the garbage panel they replaced it with they can't get it out of here fast enough.
If you're still under warranty and they've had a tech come out a couple times insist on a replacement if they don't offer it to you.
My pops aren't very bad at all so I don't want to risk having them swap out the board and then have it be horrible. If I start seeing people get new model sets that don't have the issue then perhaps I will go through the hassle of 2-3 repair calls.
post #1317 of 1615
just got off the phone with samsung and they're going to replace it with a new pn51e550. The reviews I read so far and the discussion about the tv on the forums seem to be overall positive. I asked about upgrading to the 6500 series (paying the difference of course) but he said that's something he couldn't do on his end so I decided just to go with the e550 instead of working the phones again and delaying replacement longer.

here's to hoping I have a much better and longer viewing experience with the E series.... /fingers crossed.
post #1318 of 1615
^ That is my game plan too. We shall see what I do after my panel is replaced. E series here I come. To the rest of you, have fun trying to keep telling yourselves that this TV is worth the headaches... because it is not!
post #1319 of 1615
Oh, Icon, I know you may have some serious social defects that you just can't help, but maybe you should wake up to the fact that 99% of us are just fine with what we have. Many have tried to help you here and this is the tone you take? It's obnoxious. Enjoy nitpicking all of the faults out of your E. tongue.gif
post #1320 of 1615
Guys, what movie is known to be a good FBr test? Any tips? Thanks!
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