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Samsung D series FBr fix discussion - Page 45

post #1321 of 1573
8/3/12 at 12:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AvidHiker View Post

Oh, Icon, I know you may have some serious social defects that you just can't help, but maybe you should wake up to the fact that 99% of us are just fine with what we have. Many have tried to help you here and this is the tone you take? It's obnoxious. Enjoy nitpicking all of the faults out of your E. tongue.gif

Exactly, here, we all love our sets but we also are geeks and maniacs ( me first ) and we want the most of our set biggrin.gif

We love to solve problems and enhance what we paid for to the maximum.

I paid my PS51D550 set 749 € ( $927 ) in 2011 September, the PQ is awesome, I can hack it and have a perfect calibration, set it for better blacks and almost no pops.

What can I ( we ) expect more for this price ? Nothing !

My first plasma was a 2005 42 inches LG, I paid it more than 1700 € ( $2000 ), I have it yet in one of mu daughters bedroom and it is REALLY WORTHLESS than my D550 wink.gif

Icon13, when you realize how difficult it is for a set to be perfect ( if it isn't impossible ), thousands of parameters to manage, energy saver, price, on site warranty, I think you can be happy with what you have.

This TV are greats and not ashamed, don't you think ?
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post #1322 of 1573
8/3/12 at 12:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyDee View Post

Guys, what movie is known to be a good FBr test? Any tips? Thanks!

Apart from the clips zoyd has posted in the first thread, I think Bram Stroker's Dracula was being used a bit. Darker movies do tend to be worse in general, like the Harry Potter films for instance (although not consistently as I recall). By far the worst one I've seen was a old DVD of "Home for the Holidays" I rented last Christmas (before the fix was released). A nonstop pop fest. Seems they're not always reproducible, which makes it tough to nail down specific scenes, but I also remember a number of people using the very beginning of The Dark Knight where there is one that seemed to happen every time (and this is another film which can generate the occasional pop throughout).
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post #1323 of 1573
8/3/12 at 3:41pm
I own a PS59D8000 (Australian model) and had very annoying brightness pops when the TV was purchased in October 2011. I updated my logic board as soon as this thread started about 7 months ago and afterwards my brightness pops were gone. But last week out of nowhere they have come back! I hadn't updated my firmware or change any picture settings, one day they just returned. I checked my logic board version, and its still at 11-11-04. I am so confused and annoyed that they have returned. Has this happened to anyone else? I'm not sure what to do.
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post #1324 of 1573
8/3/12 at 3:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rai33 View Post

Brightness pops have returned on my 64 inch d8000 plasma (Australian version) after months of FBr free viewing.
I applied the logic board firmware fix a few months back thanks to this thread and was really happy the brightness pops were literally no more. As others have mentioned recently the issue has some how come back - i've checked (and reapplied) the logic board firmware and even used the Samygo method to downgrade the firmware through the TV menu (back to 1015)...may have helped a bit with poor black levels but I am still getting FBr. At a loss now - here's hoping some of the brains in this thread sort it out.
Update... just had a play around and seems setting Cell light to maximum (20) and pulling back Contrast to compensate Fbr has been dramatically improved.

This is very strange, my brightness pops also returned about six days ago. coincidence??
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post #1325 of 1573
8/4/12 at 10:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by makinbiscuits View Post

here's to hoping I have a much better and longer viewing experience with the E series.... /fingers crossed.

As promised, I ran a lot of tests today, my advice for you is to keep your D550, you can achieve whatever you want with this one, have a look in zoyd better blacks thread :

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1390635/samsung-plasma-panel-tweaks-for-better-blacks/240#post_22278119

Update your logicboard, set your YRR pot and you will have a pop free and inky black plasma biggrin.gif

My results with the new " grey-blacks " panel :

Previously :

- 100% black picture : 0.019 ftL

- Black bars in scene 38 Revenge of the Sith ( sample in the Fbr thread ) : 0.020 to 0.040 ftL

After logicboard update and YRR setting :

- 100% black picture : 0.0075 ftL

- Black bars in scene 38 Revenge of the Sith ( sample in the Fbr thread ) : 0.0107 to 0.0161 ftL

My final YRR setting is one quarter clockwise than the original setting, that's really huge and confirm that the sets leave the factory with very " large and safe " settings... but you have grey-blacks mad.gif

The Y-scan board is included with new panels, so the new one are clearly improperly set by the factory.
Edited by KevinNash - 8/7/12 at 2:51am
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post #1326 of 1573
8/4/12 at 8:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinNash View Post

As promised, I ran a lot of tests today, my advice for you is to keep your D550, you can achieve whatever you want with this one, have a look in zoyd better blacks thread :
.

too late for that as the 51E550 is already in freight from samsung.
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post #1327 of 1573
8/5/12 at 5:38pm
I updated to the FW 1028.8 (along with logic board update) and the brightness pops do seem to be gone; although now there seems to be motion blurring? It is especially noticeable on ESPN's scrolling ticker. The text turns blurry as it scrolls, periodically. It switches back and forth between clear and blurry. Anyone else experience this?

Also - how does the FW 1028.8 version compare to the latest version available on the Samsung website?
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post #1328 of 1573
8/5/12 at 6:59pm
Thread Starter 
Auto 2 is better at deinterlacing with text present.
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post #1329 of 1573
8/5/12 at 9:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dfase View Post

I updated to the FW 1028.8 (along with logic board update) and the brightness pops do seem to be gone; although now there seems to be motion blurring? It is especially noticeable on ESPN's scrolling ticker. The text turns blurry as it scrolls, periodically. It switches back and forth between clear and blurry. Anyone else experience this?
Also - how does the FW 1028.8 version compare to the latest version available on the Samsung website?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

Auto 2 is better at deinterlacing with text present.

Did the Auto2 setting fix your issue?
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post #1330 of 1573
8/6/12 at 4:25am
I changed the setting to Auto 2 and watched ESPN for a minute with no blurring. As mentioned before it would come and go periodically, so i'll keep an eye on it to see if stays away and report back if not.

Thanks for the help.

Zoyd - Do you know if updating to a more current FW (either now, or in the future) will "undo" the correction for the brightness pops?
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post #1331 of 1573
8/6/12 at 5:05am
Thread Starter 
the logic board flash is not affected by firmware updates.
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post #1332 of 1573
8/6/12 at 7:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinNash View Post

As promised, I ran a lot of tests today, my advice for you is to keep your D550, you can achieve whatever you want with this one, have a look in zoyd better blacks thread :
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1390635/samsung-plasma-panel-tweaks-for-better-blacks/240#post_22278119
Update your logicboard, set your YRR pot and you will have a pop free and inky black plasma biggrin.gif
My results with the new " grey-blacks " panel :
Previously :
- 100% black picture : 0.019 ftL
- Black bars in scene 38 Revenge of the Sith ( sample in the Fbr thread ) : 0.020 to 0.040 ftL
After logicboard update end YRR setting :
- 100% black picture : 0.0075 ftL
- Black bars in scene 38 Revenge of the Sith ( sample in the Fbr thread ) : 0.0107 to 0.0161 ftL
My final YRR setting is one quarter clockwise than the original setting, that's really huge and confirm that the sets leave the factory with very " large and safe " settings... but you have grey-blacks mad.gif
The Y-scan board in included with new panels, so the new one are clearly improperly set by the factory.
Will something like this work with the D6500?
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post #1333 of 1573
8/6/12 at 8:19pm
Thread Starter 
51" yes, larger probably not but you'd have to check your y-scan board to verify.
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post #1334 of 1573
8/6/12 at 10:26pm
I can at least verify on the 51d6500 that you can do it.
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post #1335 of 1573
8/7/12 at 5:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

51" yes, larger probably not but you'd have to check your y-scan board to verify.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kanpol View Post

I can at least verify on the 51d6500 that you can do it.
I have both a 51 and 59 d6500. What do I check on the board?
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post #1336 of 1573
8/7/12 at 9:08pm
goto this link http://www.avsforum.com/t/1390635/samsung-plasma-panel-tweaks-for-better-blacks it is on this forum. The 1st page will show you all you need to know and what to look for. I am almost positive that your 59d6500 will not have the yrr pot. I believe the 59 and up use the logic board to controll the yrr, which is why the 59 and up have better blacks. Zoyd explains everything perfectly in that link I gave you.
On my tv I only adjusted the yrr pot and not the voltage ones due to not having a voltage meter. Using a clock as a legend my yrr was at 11 and when I finished it was inbetween the 12 and 1. I dont have a meter so I dont know what my black reading was or is but it did get better. I have the pn51d6500.
Hope that helps
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post #1337 of 1573
8/8/12 at 11:57am
I have a 64D7000 that was suffering from FBr. I used this very thread a few months ago to adjust firmware and fix the problem. I accidentally upgraded the firmware from the option in the menu. I immediately started noticing the FBr again. I know you've said that upgrading the firmware shouldn't have this effect, but the timing seems to close to be a coincidence.
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post #1338 of 1573
8/8/12 at 12:32pm
If you're referring to the latest firmware for the D7000, version 1016.2, then you may be mistaken. It has not had that effect for anyone else AFAIK and it most definitely does not contain a logic upgrade, because I know that was checked.
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post #1339 of 1573
8/8/12 at 3:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

Auto 2 is better at deinterlacing with text present.

Where is the "Auto 2" setting that you're talking about?

Jason
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post #1340 of 1573
8/9/12 at 12:28am
Come on wink.gif

In the settings, Picture options, where you can set Cinema Smooth
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post #1341 of 1573
8/10/12 at 9:56am
Was watching an episode of Mad Men on Netflix last night and it the brightness pops were almost unbearable :-(

So pissed because this was almost the perfect display until the pops returned.

I'm hoping whoever said the issue might go away again after x number of hours is proven correct.
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post #1342 of 1573
8/10/12 at 10:06am
I originally thought the few users that returned here to state that the pops were happening again were all edge cases. As more and more people come back to the forums to complain about this, I think that's definitely not the case. I stated about a month ago that the pops were starting to return for me. Since that day, each week it's getting worse. It's now affecting Pillar-boxed content and that's just unbearable for me. I agree with most people that they never truly went away %100 but it's was definitely 99% for me. It's now getting to the point that I can't enjoyably watch my television. It's sad because the picture is so damn good when it's not popping. I'm definitely going to contact Samsung and see what they suggest. Hopefully there's some correct combination of logic board+panel where the fix actually stays permanently. If they blindly replace my existing components with new ones and update the logic board, this will only buy me about 4-6 months until this problem returns. At least that's my thought on this.... I'm still under warranty but it's not like upgrading (assuming they offer) to the E8000 will be any better. The E series still has the same issues correct? I'm convinced this is why Samsung never release this fix to the general public. Any better explanation for it?
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post #1343 of 1573
8/10/12 at 10:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHummrich View Post

I originally thought the few users that returned here to state that the pops were happening again were all edge cases. As more and more people come back to the forums to complain about this, I think that's definitely not the case. I stated about a month ago that the pops were starting to return for me. Since that day, each week it's getting worse. It's now affecting Pillar-boxed content and that's just unbearable for me. I agree with most people that they never truly went away %100 but it's was definitely 99% for me. It's now getting to the point that I can't enjoyably watch my television. It's sad because the picture is so damn good when it's not popping. I'm definitely going to contact Samsung and see what they suggest. Hopefully there's some correct combination of logic board+panel where the fix actually stays permanently. If they blindly replace my existing components with new ones and update the logic board, this will only buy me about 4-6 months until this problem returns. At least that's my thought on this.... I'm still under warranty but it's not like upgrading (assuming they offer) to the E8000 will be any better. The E series still has the same issues correct? I'm convinced this is why Samsung never release this fix to the general public. Any better explanation for it?

I thought the consensus was that the E series did not have the same issues?

Hell, I bought an extended warranty at BB when I purchased this TV just because I was afraid of these Fbr issues but I doubt they'd let me do an exchange due to these brightness pops.

Like you said, this issue is really killing my enjoyment of the set at the moment and I'm kind of pissed at myself for dropping almost $2k on a TV that I'm not even enjoying.
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post #1344 of 1573
8/10/12 at 3:08pm
It would be helpful if a bit of specific data is supplied by those who are seeing a return of the fluctuating brightness.

As a minimum, please let us know what is the TV size/model, the source of the video, the picture mode being used, and the settings of the Cell, Contrast, Brightness, Gamma.

Thanks,
Larry
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post #1345 of 1573
8/10/12 at 3:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

It would be helpful if a bit of specific data is supplied by those who are seeing a return of the fluctuating brightness.
As a minimum, please let us know what is the TV size/model, the source of the video, the picture mode being used, and the settings of the Cell, Contrast, Brightness, Gamma.
Thanks,
Larry

Larry,

My set is a 59D7000 and the brightness has returned during Blu Ray playback, Netflix over Xbox 360, and over my FiOS cable box.

Settings are the same one's that I have been using since February - I plugged them in using some of Chad B's calibration settings from someone with the same size/model and they have worked fantastic since I first plugged them in and applied the fix in early February.

Mode: Movie
Cell: 20
Contrast: 95
Brightness: 60
Gamma: 0

Let me know if any other information would be helpful. Fluctuations returned early/mid July with around 850 hours on the panel according to the menu.
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post #1346 of 1573
8/10/12 at 4:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMUdukes07 View Post

I thought the consensus was that the E series did not have the same issues?
Hell, I bought an extended warranty at BB when I purchased this TV just because I was afraid of these Fbr issues but I doubt they'd let me do an exchange due to these brightness pops.
Like you said, this issue is really killing my enjoyment of the set at the moment and I'm kind of pissed at myself for dropping almost $2k on a TV that I'm not even enjoying.

It still exists. Read this review here:

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/samsung-ps60e6500-ps51e6500-201207262022.htm?page=Performance
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post #1347 of 1573
8/10/12 at 4:29pm
Peter,

That phenomenon with the E series concerning the bouncing white level is not the same as the fluctuating black level that the D series suffered from.

Larry
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post #1348 of 1573
8/10/12 at 4:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Peter,
That phenomenon with the E series concerning the bouncing white level is not the same as the fluctuating black level that the D series suffered from.
Larry

Hi Larry,

Reading that piece I cited I do read this:

During a letterboxed film, if we paid attention to the black bars, we could see that they would sometimes rise to a brigther level during overall brighter scenes. However, surprisingly for us, they also sometimes lowered, too: during some scenes in Se7en they could reach 0.015 cd/m2, before returning to the baseline level of 0.02 cd/m2.

During content with a good mix of dark and light scenes intercut, we saw that in the most extreme cases, the blacks rose to 0.045 cd/m2 – which is the same baseline black level we measured from a 64″ Samsung plasma display last year (coincidence, we think not).
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post #1349 of 1573
8/10/12 at 5:02pm
Peter,

Yes, I read that but I discounted it because it did not describe the sudden black level "pops" that plagued the D series. David discussed this in the paragraph following those that you quoted.
Quote:
We feel the effect is minimal, for two reasons: first of all, the brightness very smoothly fades to a brighter or darker level, rather than instantly shifting in a single movement as it has done on some other plasma displays. Secondly, seeing as it only happens during brighter scenes, the “surround effect” property of the human visual system, coupled with the fading, will make the effect less perceptible. It will be more visible in a pitch black room, though, for this same reason. This is nowhere near as visible or as annoying as dynamic backlighting/ “auto dimming” on LCD-based TVs, though, because the blacks only become minutely higher, the whole screen does not get brighter or darker as it would with an affected LED LCD TV.

Also, you omitted the first sentence of the first paragraph written by Mackenzie that you quoted.
Quote:
As for floating blacks, those are here too, but they’re well disguised to the extent that they shouldn’t prove distracting.


The fluctuating black levels do not exist in the E series in the same distracting/annoying manner as they did in the D series.

Larry
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post #1350 of 1573
8/10/12 at 5:05pm
Fair enough Larry and it clearly is not as egregious as the D series.

Edit: And whilst it is mentioned here as well it does not seem as bad as what has been described here with the D series:

http://www.avforums.com/reviews/Samsung-E8000-PS-51E80000-64E8000-3D-Plasma-Smart-TV-Review_332/Review.html
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