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Samsung D series FBr fix discussion - Page 49

post #1441 of 1615
AvidHiker,

Thanks a lot for the response. I keep going back and forth on whether to pursue the matter further. I thought I was at the point where I was going to just let it go but then I watched my Game of Thrones Blu Ray and there were a few scenes with constant change on the black levels.

I'm just afraid of going through the process and ending up with my same D series plasma with worse picture quality due to the change out of panels and boards. Also, seems like most are pleased with the E series but I'm a bit concerned that they sound so much dimmer than the D's.
post #1442 of 1615
I had my panel replaced and the difference was as clear as night and day.

I want to note that the pops out of the box (common pops), and the flashing/fluctuating black levels are different phenomena. This is clear, at least to my naked eye and explains why only some of us see it.

The logic fw update took care of the "common brightness pop" on my first panel, but I was left with unstable black levels in certain material, and especially on digital video files.

The black level performance on my new panel is far better than on my first panel after the logic update; solid, including on material that used to fluctuate/flash. There has also been a large improvement in 3d content, which was full of pops before and after the logic update on the first panel. My first panel was no doubt a lemon.

This leads me to believe that some panels have a defect in addition to "common pop." My new panel had the "common pops" but after I did the logic update they were gone, and the flashing/fluctuating black levels were not present in material that showed them on my first panel. The PQ of the new panel is far superior.

Maybe the problem lies in the itoless panels. My first panel used the itoless file. The second panel used the ito file. From what I have gathered ito is a material in the panel, and it is expensive, so itoless panels have been produced. I will keep an eye out for the return of this problem.

I am pretty much happy now. The e series is not as bright as the d, so daytime viewing on the d series is better anyways. Now that the picture looks how it should have all along, I do not want exchange it unless the pops return or something else goes wrong.

Just make sure you do the logic update to your new panel and you will be good to go. Downgrade the firmware if you have to.
Edited by Icon13 - 9/5/12 at 3:05am
post #1443 of 1615
Quote:
Originally Posted by winklepr View Post

I'd be curious to know if downgrading to 1013.1 fixes what we may be seeing with the fluctuating brightness/floating blacks/etc.
no. I tried all fw versions on mine except 1015. Nothing changed, strobing/fluctuating black levels were still present.
post #1444 of 1615
IF YOU ARE EXPERIENCING FLASHING/UNSTABLE BLACK LEVELS DO NOT BE AFRAID OF A PANEL REPLACEMENT. I am very happy with mine, so far.

If your panel was replaced YOU HAVE TO DO THE LOGIC BOARD UPDATE ALL OVER AGAIN. This is the only way to fix your new panel. When your panel was replaced so was your logic board. The new logic board has the original, old firmware on it. The only original parts you should have after a panel replacement is the power supply, mainboard (which has nothing to do with the problem) and bezel.

This issue is still present in many sets and absolutely ruins the viewing experience. Coming up with an excuse to discredit what you see as "normal" without ever viewing your sets in person just sounds like ignorance to me.
Edited by Icon13 - 9/5/12 at 2:34am
post #1445 of 1615
Quote:
Originally Posted by Icon13 View Post

IF YOU ARE EXPERIENCING FLASHING/UNSTABLE BLACK LEVELS DO NOT BE AFRAID OF A PANEL REPLACEMENT. I am very happy with mine, so far.
If your panel was replaced YOU HAVE TO DO THE LOGIC BOARD UPDATE ALL OVER AGAIN. This is the only way to fix your new panel. When your panel was replaced so was your logic board. The new logic board has the original, old firmware on it. The only original parts you should have after a panel replacement is the power supply, mainboard (which has nothing to do with the problem) and bezel.
This issue is still present in many sets and absolutely ruins the viewing experience. Coming up with an excuse to discredit what you see as "normal" without ever viewing your sets in person just sounds like ignorance to me.

My issue with this is the fact that the update originally got rid of my pops and I absolutely loved the TV.

However, 5-6 months later the pops returned and now they are as bad as they ever were. If something similar happens this time then I will most likely be outside of my warranty period and will be stuck with a panel that pops permanently.

This is the reason that I will be hesistant to perform the logic board update again once they replace my panel and board.
post #1446 of 1615
^ yes, but perhaps it is not so much an issue that they came back, but instead it took 5 to 6 months for you to find the proper viewing material to expose the pops. Do you have any media that looked clean and pop free for the 5-6 months, but popped after? What logic file did you use, ito or itoless? From my experience the black level fluctuations and flashes were present on certain material and I noticed it shortly after the updated logic fw. 3D was especially bad. That is why I think the new panel fixed my woes. 3D now looks proper, which has never been the case before on my set.

Also, I downgraded to 1013 -> 1014.6 then did the logic update on my new panel. It did this just in case the fw has anything to do with the TV properly accepting the logic update. Otherwise, why would Samsung have built the upgrade to be included on an older version than what was previously out at the time? Might have been a waste of time, but gives me a piece of mind. Now running 1016.2.
post #1447 of 1615
FWIW. Did the logic board upgrade when it came out. TV still looks great and is still going strong. Only the very slightest and rarest of pops, and only when I have my TV do the decoding of the video (i.e., Play To -> TVPN59D8000)
post #1448 of 1615
If my TV starts popping again, I'm calling BB to replace it. This TV is basically a lemon without the fix.
post #1449 of 1615
Quote:
Originally Posted by Icon13 View Post

^ yes, but perhaps it is not so much an issue that they came back, but instead it took 5 to 6 months for you to find the proper viewing material to expose the pops. Do you have any media that looked clean and pop free for the 5-6 months, but popped after? What logic file did you use, ito or itoless? From my experience the black level fluctuations and flashes were present on certain material and I noticed it shortly after the updated logic fw. 3D was especially bad. That is why I think the new panel fixed my woes. 3D now looks proper, which has never been the case before on my set.
Also, I downgraded to 1013 -> 1014.6 then did the logic update on my new panel. It did this just in case the fw has anything to do with the TV properly accepting the logic update. Otherwise, why would Samsung have built the upgrade to be included on an older version than what was previously out at the time? Might have been a waste of time, but gives me a piece of mind. Now running 1016.2.

It definitely isn't the content.

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I had observed several specific scenes in content where I noticed pops when I first got the set - especially in Inception. I applied the fix and the scenes played flawlessly and I absolutely loved the TV set. I tested it on this scene and others countless times during my 60 day return period at BB (Silver Member benefit) and the pops were 100% gone as far as I could tell.

However, in July my pops started to return and now I notice them during almost any content that isn't sports. I watched Se7en on Blu Ray the other night and there were several scenes where the black bars and dark parts of the scenes were like a strobe light with the constant fluctuations.

Like the poster above said, this TV is a lemon without a fix that works and continues to work during the lifetime of the set. There have been several posts of the pops returning so I know that I am not a completely isolated event and it makes me very nervous to just apply the "fix" again and have this happen again outside of my warranty period.

I wouldn't accept this problem from a budget $600 display, so the fact that it's occurring on an expensive high end set has me extremely frustrated.
post #1450 of 1615
^ Again, what logic firmware file did your TV accept? Itoless or Ito? Please do not guess if you don't remember. I think Larry's was ito , so maybe that is why he has no pops. I just remember his panel was different than my first panel, which was itoless. Now mine is an Ito panel too. I actually had 2 replacements due to a pink haze in the middle of the screen on the second panel. It was Ito as well. Now, I do not believe that the presence or lack of Ito is the cause, but instead how the itoless logic firmware interacts with an itoless panel. Only time will tell, and I am going to use this plasma a lot while I still have a warranty just in case prolonged usage is the cause. At that point I will demand an E series replacement.

More info on ito:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indium_tin_oxide
post #1451 of 1615
Quote:
Originally Posted by Icon13 View Post

^ Again, what logic firmware file did your TV accept? Itoless or Ito? Please do not guess if you don't remember. I think Larry's was ito , so maybe that is why he has no pops. I just remember his panel was different than my first panel, which was itoless. Now mine is an Ito panel too. I actually had 2 replacements due to a pink haze in the middle of the screen on the second panel. It was Ito as well. Now, I do not believe that the presence or lack of Ito is the cause, but instead how the itoless logic firmware interacts with an itoless panel. Only time will tell, and I am going to use this plasma a lot while I still have a warranty just in case prolonged usage is the cause. At that point I will demand an E series replacement.
More info on ito:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indium_tin_oxide


I have had a panel replaced. One needed the itoless logic update and the other needed the ito. I have not had any "pops" for either panel and both panels reached well over 1500 hours. I don't think that I could draw any conclusion based on my experience.

Larry
post #1452 of 1615
I honestly can't remember which update my logic board took. I'd love for you to be right but I'm extremely nervous about just accepting a panel replacement after going this ass backwards way of "fixing" the set.
post #1453 of 1615
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMUdukes07 View Post

I honestly can't remember which update my logic board took. I'd love for you to be right but I'm extremely nervous about just accepting a panel replacement after going this ass backwards way of "fixing" the set.
A panel replacement is a simple procedure. It is essentially a new tv. You want a new tv don't you? I was nervous about it too, and have no regrets. Either do it or keep a totally defective set. Sounds like a simple decision to me.
post #1454 of 1615
Quote:
Originally Posted by Icon13 View Post

A panel replacement is a simple procedure. It is essentially a new tv. You want a new tv don't you? I was nervous about it too, and have no regrets. Either do it or keep a totally defective set. Sounds like a simple decision to me.

Huh? I mean I'm going to let them replace the panel but I'm nervous about the fact that it's pretty much a guarantee the new panel will pop just like the old one - at that point I can apply the fix again but, as I said earlier, I'm concerned about the issue coming back months down the road when I'm outside of my warranty period.
post #1455 of 1615
Quote:
Originally Posted by Icon13 View Post

^ Again, what logic firmware file did your TV accept? Itoless or Ito? Please do not guess if you don't remember...

You also need to remember that plenty of people (myself included) just installed the firmware fix and then verified that their logic fw version had been updated. In this case there is no way to tell which firmware was installed, so no way to know the panel type.
post #1456 of 1615
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMUdukes07 View Post

I honestly can't remember which update my logic board took. I'd love for you to be right but I'm extremely nervous about just accepting a panel replacement after going this ass backwards way of "fixing" the set.
This is not totally an ass backwards fix. This is actually the same fix a Samsung tech will perform if they are knowledgeable enough. This is just the method that allows you to do it on your own.

The true problem that caused Samsung to stop sending usb updates according to a executive customer service rep was not just the problem of having up to date fw, thus makin a downgrade impossible, but the fact that only the 8000 series even has the ability to perform the fix from usb. Other models would upgrade the system fw, but the logic fw remained untouched for some reason. They now send a tech to perform the update.

Luckily in CA Samsung uses Tekniton and they are trained directly by Samsung. You may not be so lucky to recieve such highly professional service in all areas of the country. First thing the tech did was check the logic fw. He said it was up to date. He informed me that he is able to perform the update by obtaing the logic fw online from Samsung. There is a service page that the techs can access by logging in were it can be downloaded.
post #1457 of 1615
Also, the logic update was included in Samsung software updates. 1014.3 for the D7000, 1024.8 for the D8000, and 1019.5 for the D550. Read post #1 of this thread.

Where in the world does someone think that this is an "ass backwards fix"? The logic portion of the Samsung release was just extracted by zoyd. There was no diddling with the content.

Larry
post #1458 of 1615
I'm sorry but it's "ass backwards" to go use some emulated software written in another language to connect to my TV and perform an update. I'm not sure a better word to describe it. The firmware update didn't "initialize" or whatever the phase of the firmware was called so I had to use the computer program to update the logic board separately.

It wasn't super difficult but was still an extra step nobody should have to take to get a good picture from their $2,000 television - especially when it only works for 5-6 months.
post #1459 of 1615
JM,

I don't know what you are talking about. Use the SamyGo method to re-install the original software version on your TV and then use a USB stick to update to the version that contains the logic fix.

That way there is no need to use the emulator. (If you don't know how to get the emulator working, you haven't read this thread very carefully.smile.gif)

EDIT: I worded this comment too harshly. I did not mean to imply that you didn't get it. The "you" in the parenthetical phrase was the generic you.
I don't expect a for-profit company indefinitely to maintain engineering groups to address any problems that may exist in previous generations while at the same time designing the next generation-- I will take any method to do the fix myself.

Larry
Edited by LarryInRI - 9/6/12 at 9:13pm
post #1460 of 1615
Larry,

I'm not sure if I'm just not being clear or what. When I originally updated my firmware and logic board I did not receive the "optimization" step mentioned in the OP of this thread and my firmware did not update to the new version. This meant that my only option was to use the emulator to apply the fix according to everyone on this board at this time. It was kind of a pain in the ass but I managed to do it successfully without issue. I have no way of knowing if I will get the "optimization" step to work this time around when I update the firmware - I guess I will find out when I get my new panel and board next week.

However, that still doesn't go against my complaint that this is an "ass backwards" process (doing it twice) to get a fix that a) Samsung CSR's won't even acknowledge exists and b) the results of which may only be temporary.

I'm still very concerned about applying the fix, assuming everything is taken care of, and then having a set that pops a ton a month after my warranty expires. I'm sorry you don't see the reason for my frustration right now, but I wish it could be guaranteed that I would be like you and end up with a completely fixed set.
post #1461 of 1615
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Also, the logic update was included in Samsung software updates. 1014.3 for the D7000, 1024.8 for the D8000, and 1019.5 for the D550. Read post #1 of this thread.
Where in the world does someone think that this is an "ass backwards fix"? The logic portion of the Samsung release was just extracted by zoyd. There was no diddling with the content.
Larry
Actually, it was 1014.6 for the d7000 and others. But it does not matter because even if your firmware is low enough to upgrade to 1014.6 no logic update is applied. Like I said, a Samsung ECS Rep told me that is why they stopped mailing out the USB. I have the official USB fix as sent by Samsung via snail mail and confirmed this on two panel replacements after first downgrading to 1013. Both times I upgraded to 1014.6 from 1013 there was no change in logic firmware. This is not the case with the d8000. 1024.8 will successfully update your logic fw from USB on a d8000. Did you read my last post? Samsung has decided to apply the logic fw update manually (similar to how we do it here, but no emulator needed) via tech visit.
Edited by Icon13 - 9/6/12 at 10:56pm
post #1462 of 1615
Sorry if this is not the right place for this question, but I am considering buying a Samsung and am now quite freaked out after reading through most of this thread.

I saw a great deal on a PN64D7000 for $1800 new, but have no interest in dealing with the problems you all have faced.

The best price I've found for a PN64E7000 is $2700. I am also considering the PN60E6500 for $1600.

Does this problem affect all D series units? Is it also a problem on the E series, or was it fixed in the new models? All E models, or just a specific model?

Since I have not yet purchased a unit, an ounce of prevention may help me avoid the pounds of cure this thread is about???
post #1463 of 1615
Quote:
Originally Posted by Icon13 View Post

Actually, it was 1014.6 for the d7000 and others. But it does not matter because even if your firmware is low enough to upgrade to 1014.6 no logic update is applied. Like I said, a Samsung ECS Rep told me that is why they stopped mailing out the USB...

Nope, NOT TRUE.

1014.6 worked just fine for my PN59D7000 and I was able to confirm this both by a new logic version showing (per zoyd's list) and visually (my pops are gone). The fact is, BOTH firmwares (D7000 and D8000 types) would fail to install the logic upgrade some percentage of the time, which is why the manual method was developed. Both firmwares were also confirmed to install perfectly some percentage of the time. Samsung was obviously unable to correct this problem, which appears to be why they stopped distributing the USB sticks. These Samsung reps frequently demonstrate that they have no clue what they're talking about. They'll just tell you whatever gets you off their back, ECR or other.

BTW, I even tried to install manually using the remote emulator and it would not accept either firmware (ito/less) because it had already been updated.
post #1464 of 1615
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmpierc1 View Post

...Does this problem affect all D series units? Is it also a problem on the E series, or was it fixed in the new models? All E models, or just a specific model?
Since I have not yet purchased a unit, an ounce of prevention may help me avoid the pounds of cure this thread is about???

Depends on who you ask. Most of us seem happy with the fix for the D, but there is some chance you will not. Most seem happy with the E and the FBr issue should be largely fixed on any of those sets (however, I have seen one or two reports of popping).
post #1465 of 1615
I mentioned a few pages ago My D8000 plasma Fbr issue was originally fixed via a logic board update only to return, and then be subdued with a firmware rollback ....and now once again its Fbr'ing like a nightclub strobe. Unbearable really - I think there's no other option than to get the panel replaced. The concern of course is even though that may initially resolve it, the issue seemingly could return.
post #1466 of 1615
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rai33 View Post

I mentioned a few pages ago My D8000 plasma Fbr issue was originally fixed via a logic board update only to return, and then be subdued with a firmware rollback ....and now once again its Fbr'ing like a nightclub strobe. Unbearable really - I think there's no other option than to get the panel replaced. The concern of course is even though that may initially resolve it, the issue seemingly could return.

Same issue I'm facing, so I feel your pain.

Only thing we can really do is try and then hope that a replacement will permanently fix the problem. Otherwise, if it returns when I'm outside of warranty I'll be forced to take the loss by selling it on Craigslist and getting a new set.
post #1467 of 1615
My E series (530) was taken away yesterday to have the panel replaced due to FBr. The techs that came to my house said they had seen this issue "loads of times" and seemed convinced that the replacement panel will solve the issue but im not so sure but guess i'll just have to wait and see when i get the tv back.
post #1468 of 1615
Quote:
Originally Posted by djstevie View Post

My E series (530) was taken away yesterday to have the panel replaced due to FBr. The techs that came to my house said they had seen this issue "loads of times" and seemed convinced that the replacement panel will solve the issue but im not so sure but guess i'll just have to wait and see when i get the tv back.

E series too, huh?

Damn, if I can't get this resolved I'm really pushing for a refund.
post #1469 of 1615
I emailed Samsung with my concerns and they stated that only if the tv is taken away three times for repair without fixing the problem, then they would offer a replacement or refund. I doubt i'll ever buy a Samsung again so would push for the refund myself.
post #1470 of 1615
They took yours away to replace that stuff? That's suprising, they're supposed to replace my panel and board at my home next week.
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