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Samsung D series FBr fix discussion - Page 53

post #1561 of 1615
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Sorry if I mislead you. For some reason known only to Samsung, the newer logic boards do not have the updated logic. Why not? I don't know.

I have had to roll the software back in order to access some of the service menu items only available using the emulator. For a while, I had been updating again to the latest software after doing what I wanted in the service menu. But since I have almost no use for the apps updates I leave it at a lower version. I've never had any problem with the roll back process.

Larry

Yeah, now I'm sitting here wondering if I should just go ahead and do it. It's tempting smile.gif

By the way, I found an older post of mine and it appears I remembered it wrong: on my current panel the pops didn't appear until after 180 hours.

Thanks again for your reply.
post #1562 of 1615
OK, that was fairly painless. I downgraded to 1013 and did the logic board update. My original panel was ITOless, this one was ITO. After I was done I re-entered the settings from my last calibration and checked (by eye only for now) that everything looks good.

I've verified that the fix works by checking the first 4 minutes of The Matrix. It has two scenes/shots that always caused the black level to rise on my set: when Trinity is on the phone with Morpheus right after having fought the policemen, and a little later right when her feet touch the ground after her jump from one building to another.

I'm at 644 hours now and will keep a close eye on things. IIRC two posters have claimed that the pops came back at 800 hours.
post #1563 of 1615
Haven't posted in a while, but wanted to share my thoughts after installing the latest firmware for my PN64D8000 (version 1031.1).....

The initial logic board update that most of us have done really improved the "pops" for me. Sure occasionally I will see some gradual rise in black levels, but nothing like it was initially.

Now, after installing firmware 1031.1 I think I have seen more improvement. over the past few weeks I haven't seen even the gradual rise like I was before.

I'd be curious to know if anyone else has used this firmware and seen improvement in picture quality.
post #1564 of 1615
Quote:
Originally Posted by nesbo View Post

Haven't posted in a while, but wanted to share my thoughts after installing the latest firmware for my PN64D8000 (version 1031.1).....

The initial logic board update that most of us have done really improved the "pops" for me. Sure occasionally I will see some gradual rise in black levels, but nothing like it was initially.

Now, after installing firmware 1031.1 I think I have seen more improvement. over the past few weeks I haven't seen even the gradual rise like I was before.

I'd be curious to know if anyone else has used this firmware and seen improvement in picture quality.

I haven't been brave enough to update my firmware since 1024 helped so much. However, whenever I watch Person of Interest, I still see pops that are barely there, but there. Maybe I will try to update tonight.
post #1565 of 1615
I'm really starting to think this new firmware has improved the picture, I have not noticed any rising blacks for the past couple of weeks!
post #1566 of 1615
Has there been any firmware update for the D6500 series? i think i have 1017. Website shows usb download of 1017.3
post #1567 of 1615
going on 4 weeks now with the newest firmware for the D8000 and I still think I have an improved picture. To my eye, I have not seen even the subtle rising blacks that were still present ever after the logic board update. i really think this firmware has made a difference!
post #1568 of 1615
Thread Starter 
hey nesbo - when you upgraded did you see any messages similar to the logic board update firmware like "optimizing"?
post #1569 of 1615
Zoyd, I did not see the word "optimize", however, I did notice that this firmware took longer then usual to install. I was actually a little worried that the install froze, but it did go thru. I will continue to observe using different sources as I don't want to give any false hope, but so far what I have been watching looks pretty good.
post #1570 of 1615
zoyd,

That very new update for the D8000 is 130MB -- much larger than normal. There is no recent one posted for the D7000.

Larry
post #1571 of 1615
Thread Starter 
I don't think so, all the D8000 firmwares I have are between 130-135MB and I checked the new one for updated logic code and there wasn't any. If only nesbo had a D3...
post #1572 of 1615
Interesting. The typical size for a D7000 is only about 50Meg. I guess that I never looked at the D8000 stuff before -- but then why would I? rolleyes.gif Yeah, I just looked in the 8000 file and saw no logic code.

Larry
post #1573 of 1615
Zoyd, sorry for the ignorance but what is "D3"...

Also, is it at all possible for any sort of improvement to have been done without affecting the logic board? Again, I don't want to post any wrong information....
post #1574 of 1615
Thread Starter 
D3=display pro colorimeter, to measure if black levels have changed.
post #1575 of 1615
Quick update....

I did notice some subtle increases in black levels last night. My apologizes if I relayed any misleading information. frown.gif
post #1576 of 1615
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nesbo View Post

Quick update....

I did notice some subtle increases in black levels last night. My apologizes if I relayed any misleading information. frown.gif

no worries, it's unlikely a FW change will have any effect on black levels and/or the floating behavior. These updated firmwares are usually just smarthub related.
post #1577 of 1615
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

no worries, it's unlikely a FW change will have any effect on black levels and/or the floating behavior. These updated firmwares are usually just smarthub related.

This seems to still exist with the F8500. do you think once they change the 2 pulse driving method that this "issue' will be gone for good?
post #1578 of 1615
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hungro View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

no worries, it's unlikely a FW change will have any effect on black levels and/or the floating behavior. These updated firmwares are usually just smarthub related.

This seems to still exist with the F8500. do you think once they change the 2 pulse driving method that this "issue' will be gone for good?

I have no reason to believe they will ever change the driving method. However, the F8500 2nd pulse level (optimizer off) looks to be at or just below the 1 pulse levels of the E series, so they have improved overall performance by a factor of 2 and low APL performance by a factor of 4. If those trends continue it will be a moot point.
post #1579 of 1615
I'm one of the posters who stated that fBR had returned after it had been fixed with the firmware update a while back. 5 months later now and I have to say that I was
a) possibly being overly sensitive to it.
B) watching different content than I was when it was fixed. (TV seasons)
C) it's actually gotten better with more wear.

I never saw fbr return to the original craziness in the first place. Just seemed to be back a little bit after so many hours. I really don't notice it anymore. I still love the D8000.

Curious; I believe a while back there was a specific older firmware that had slightly better black levels. Actually a newer firmware raised them a bit. Is there a safe way to downgrade the firmware since I have the logic fix in place? I should leave well enough alone but I don't think a firmware update (without logic) could cause fbr to return. I don't use any apps on the TV.
post #1580 of 1615
Thread Starter 
There is no firmware that will lower mll that I know of, that can only be down by adjusting the voltages and timing trim pots and only on 51" models.
post #1581 of 1615
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

There is no firmware that will lower mll that I know of, that can only be down by adjusting the voltages and timing trim pots and only on 51" models.

I must be confusing this with something else then. I though the mll went up with version 1024 compared to 1013 or something like that.
post #1582 of 1615
Thread Starter 
The way the transition occurs from low APL mll to mid/high APL mll was changed to make it less noticeable (the topic of this thread) but baseline mll was never changed. This is something that is set at the factory to avoid pixel misfires for the lifetime of the panel, it is not something that would ever be intentionally changed in the field by samsung.
post #1583 of 1615
I have gradually gotten worse black pixel misfires in the center area of my screen, and had also applied the logic board fix when it first hit the forums last year. Is there any way for me to fix this issue?
post #1584 of 1615
Quote:
Originally Posted by staylorist View Post

I have gradually gotten worse black pixel misfires in the center area of my screen, and had also applied the logic board fix when it first hit the forums last year. Is there any way for me to fix this issue?

You could try turning your YRR pot counter clockwise. Use the Scrolling pattern to check for missfires. It's possible you have this trim pot set to far forward. Also it requires that you open up your set. I would take pictures of your original pot setting unless you have already tweaked it then anything else I am telling you is for nothing rolleyes.gif
post #1585 of 1615
Thread Starter 
@staylorist: see this thread for adjustments but only the 51" models have the Yrr trimmer.
post #1586 of 1615
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

The way the transition occurs from low APL mll to mid/high APL mll was changed to make it less noticeable (the topic of this thread) but baseline mll was never changed. This is something that is set at the factory to avoid pixel misfires for the lifetime of the panel, it is not something that would ever be intentionally changed in the field by samsung.

That makes sense, thanks. I'm more than happy with the current picture and black levels anyway.

Thanks for all your help around here.
post #1587 of 1615
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHummrich View Post

I'm one of the posters who stated that fBR had returned after it had been fixed with the firmware update a while back. 5 months later now and I have to say that I was
a) possibly being overly sensitive to it.
B) watching different content than I was when it was fixed. (TV seasons)
C) it's actually gotten better with more wear.

I never saw fbr return to the original craziness in the first place. Just seemed to be back a little bit after so many hours. I really don't notice it anymore. I still love the D8000.

Curious; I believe a while back there was a specific older firmware that had slightly better black levels. Actually a newer firmware raised them a bit. Is there a safe way to downgrade the firmware since I have the logic fix in place? I should leave well enough alone but I don't think a firmware update (without logic) could cause fbr to return. I don't use any apps on the TV.

Funny

I'm a D7000 owner...applied the fix late 2012...and recently reported here that the fbr had returned. As of this past weekend, its still there...can say with confidence that the "fix" is not doing its job anymore.

Watching Django Unchained on Blu was the worst fbr I've seen to date...had the lights off which may have contributed. Seemed to happen the most in all the indoor scnes (dining room, bar, etc) ...oftentimes even with the panel being "confused" and doing hard flashes in brightness on the black bars like it didn't know whether to brighten or darken in a certain scene.

Didnt want to turn in Cinema Smooth because to me it removes that "immersive" effect by making everything look more like a soap opera, even though it shouldn't in theory. Still looks too fake to me.
post #1588 of 1615
jamesco411, did you check the hours on your panel after you made the 3/28 post? I'm curious to see if the issue returns, at least for some, at a certain number.
post #1589 of 1615
Thread Starter 
It's hard to separate display changes from changes in the brain. I know this is the case for me regarding the black levels, I notice them more often now than I did a year ago but I've measured exactly the same response. So what I am seeing is because my brain has been trained to notice it. btw, I agree, the interior scenes of Django Unchained is a real torture test for floating blacks, easy to pick out.
post #1590 of 1615
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

It's hard to separate display changes from changes in the brain. I know this is the case for me regarding the black levels, I notice them more often now than I did a year ago but I've measured exactly the same response. So what I am seeing is because my brain has been trained to notice it. btw, I agree, the interior scenes of Django Unchained is a real torture test for floating blacks, easy to pick out.

Def was not a change in my brain when I kept having the Fbr return a few months after the "fix" was applied. I had certain scenes (for example the first scene in Jaws) that easily displayed the issue and then it would be fixed by the logic board update. Fast forward a few months and it always returned and this was confirmed by my wife, friends, and the various Samsung technicians that they sent out.

Despite many here claiming otherwise, it's pretty apparent that the Fbr "fix" didn't work permanently for at least some people that bought a D series and applied the fix. It was a shame because I loved that TV but I can't say I'm disappointed with the F8500.
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