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Samsung D series FBr fix discussion - Page 18

post #511 of 1615
Well,after reading this thread,I was eager to find out if my PN64D8000 had the "pop" issue,and I think I do,as I am not as advanced as alot of the members on here,so I take the position to read and learn from them.So,I contacted Samsung and told them I may have an issue with the "brightness pop" as discussed on the AVS forum,immediately he had said he has heard of it and they will send me out a USB update stick.My question is,can I harm anything by doing the upgrade IF I mistakenly thought I had the "pop" issue?Is it still a good idea to have the software upgrade?I did end up doing the online firmware download that was available,is this the same thing?Thanks in advance!
post #512 of 1615
Quote:
Originally Posted by jroptop View Post

Well,after reading this thread,I was eager to find out if my PN64D8000 had the "pop" issue,and I think I do,as I am not as advanced as alot of the members on here,so I take the position to read and learn from them.So,I contacted Samsung and told them I may have an issue with the "brightness pop" as discussed on the AVS forum,immediately he had said he has heard of it and they will send me out a USB update stick.My question is,can I harm anything by doing the upgrade IF I mistakenly thought I had the "pop" issue?Is it still a good idea to have the software upgrade?I did end up doing the online firmware download that was available,is this the same thing?Thanks in advance!

Upgrading the firmware and/or following Zoyds logic board update directions will not harm anything.
post #513 of 1615
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbug View Post

I'm one of the ones who still had the pops after the update. Samsung is sending a tech person out on the 20th to swap boards. For those who had boards replaced, did that do the trick?

What is your logic board version?
post #514 of 1615
Brian,thanks for the reply,so in the USB stick they are sending me the updating of the logic board? BTW,my logic SW version is 11-06-07 and if I view the software upgrade info in the support menu,the current version is 001024,this is for a PN64D8000
post #515 of 1615
Thread Starter 
You can download the FW they will send you from the first post, you need D8000 version 1024.8 If that does not upgrade your logic board then follow the instructions for a logic board update (also in first post).
post #516 of 1615
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammy985 View Post

Many thanks to Zoyd, Larry, and everyone else that has worked on this. I updated the timing board successfully on my PN64D550 using ITOLess last night.

With the brightness pops fixed, is it recommended to leave Cinema Smooth off now when viewing 24fps content?

Do you mind sharing your settings on your 64D550? I have performed the update and to me I am still seeing very slight fluctuations in brighness or darks but NOTHING like before. I am afraid that I am just being too persnickity on this but would like to compare what you have.

On CS I like it on BluRay movies. The FBrs of course never occured with this setting on anyway. It's a preference issue.
post #517 of 1615
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

Welcome new D series users!

If you have a non-US display and want to apply the "brightness pops" fix you can skip down to Logic Board Update Method. If you have a US display and want to see if the official Samsung FW will work for you (or are interested in some background) read on.

I thought it might be useful to start a separate thread to try and come to some consensus on whether Samsung has addressed the issue of "pops" with their latest firmware which is currently available only to those who request it or download it from users who have received the updates.

First some nomenclature: brightness pop= fluctuating brightness = gamma shifts = floating blacks. These can all look like the same thing and I will use the shorthand "FBr" from now on to denote the effect since this was first noted in 2011 Panasonic displays and given that name, although manifests itself somewhat differently on the two display lines. There are a variety of potential causes of Fbr, gamma shifting in the DSP (digital signal processor dynamic brightness), and how the pixels are initialized and reset are two of them. You can turn off some of the effects in the DSP (the dynamic brightness control) but not the one associated with pixel initialization at the drive level. It is the one at the drive level which generates noticeable FBr under certain conditions on the D series. Panasonic and Samsung have both issued non-standard upgrades to address their respective problems. The fixes are not implemented in the DSP but in auxiliary board firmware (the logic board in Samsung's case, A-Board for Panasonic) and require upgrading low-level drive firmware.

Spreadsheet is now read-only as we have gathered enough information to declare success, thanks for all the entries!
I've started a google spreadsheet here for folks to record their display properties and whether or not any FBr problems have been resolved. Hopefully this will generate a clear picture () of where we stand.

What does the update do? So far it appears to happen in two steps. The first step is a normal upgrade of the main board eeprom that flashes three files:

1. exe.img (contains exeDSP, the main executable for running the digital signal processor)
2. rootfs.img (linux filesystem)
3. appext.img (auxillary data and progs)

The new main FW probably is just there to implement Step 2.

The second step is new and runs an "optimization" procedure which flashes new settings to the timing board (TCON). The binaries for this step are contained in the appext.img (/mtd_appext/TCON) of the firmware bundle and are specific to each panel size/type. If you do not see this step happen the fix has not been applied.

Models showing positive results: ALL

Additional reports and measurements have indicated that neither the firmware upgrade or the logic board upgrade are detrimental to overall black level performance. The logic board upgrade is what will fix the "pop" issue. There are still rising blacks that depend on APL but no longer any noticeable jumps.

Consensus is.....fixed!

There are two ways to remove FBr from your Display:

1. If you upgrade via the Samsung distributed firmware (US only) and your logic board gets updated ("optimized") -> your pops will be gone.
You can try to request a firmware be sent to from Samsung or download those provided below for US models:

D8000 FW 1024.8 (thanks TiVOHD)
D7000,6900,6500 FW 1014.6 (thanks muffinmcfluffin)
D550 FW 1019.5 (thanks King5six1)
D400s (currently no solution, please request that Samsung send you new FW to fix the "brightness pops issue")

2. If the above doesn't work for you (example - Non-US displays or "optimization" does not occur) or if you are tired of waiting for Samsung to send you USBs you can upgrade via the logic board only method described below.

Test Clip: You can download this clip for testing. Copy to a usb stick, plug into TV and select it to play. There are several fluctuations in the side bars of this clip on my display. I measured the peak difference (between lowest and highest sidebar response) at 0.009 fL. You should view in a completely dark room.

Another clip is here. 200 MB chapter 38 of Revenge of the Sith which contain numerous pops.

NOTE: If you upgrade via Samsung FW you should see an optimization pop-up during the procedure. Check your logic board FW to see if the update occurred. (poweron mute 7 3 7 enter).

If you do not have the following versions your logic board did not update:

PN51D8000: 11-10-31
PN59D8000: 11-11-04
PN64D8000: 11-11-04

PN51D7000: 11-10-31
PN59D7000: 11-11-04
PN64D7000: 11-11-04

PN51D6900: 11-10-31
PN59D6900: 11-11-04
PN64D6900: 11-11-04

PN51D6500: 11-10-31
PN59D6500: 11-11-04
PN64D6500: 11-11-04

PN51D550: 11-11-12
PN59D550: 11-11-04
PN64D550: 11-11-04


Logic Board Update Method

By this method you can manually apply the second step of the official firmware upgrade process. This step will upgrade your logic board to the version which eliminates jumps in black level luminance (pops). This update will not change your minimum luminance level (mll) nor will it eliminate black level rise during bright content, all it does is remove the pops that were so noticeable in the previous revision. The logic upgrade can be performed over any FW version.

Many people have upgraded successfully and there have been no reports of any damage resulting from this upgrade. The upload process has a mechanism for checking the integrity of the flash file and will reject files that are not meant for your display. Do not turn off the TV or remove the USB while the upgrade is in process, the flashing process can take a couple of minutes and then the TV will reboot automatically when finished. Tested and working on all D8000, D7000, D6000, D500 series models from any region.

D8000 procedure

1. Download this file.
2. Extract file for your model from list below and rename it to LOGIC.bin- Note: If you have "show extensions" turned off in windows rename the file LOGIC
3. Place on stick in folder PDP_LOGIC
4. Turn on TV and attach stick to USB 1
5. Press mute+7+3+7+enter
6. Check Logic SW version
7. Check panel version (DS or DF)
8. Navigate to Logic USB D/L and select it
9. Right arrow to initiate flash (no turning back here)
10. "Upgrading" will be displayed if the TV accepted the file and this takes a minute or so and then the TV reboots.
11. Recheck Logic SW version.

All models D7000 and below require you to use the factory remote emulator ruSamsungCommunicator to unlock the logic usb d/l menu item, you need to connect to your TV over your local network(wireless or wired) with the emulator and press info+factory.

ruSamsungTVCommunicator.zip mirror

Thanks to LarryInRI for discovering emulator method to enable logic board uploads on the D7000!

Tips on using the emulator:

1. Yes, I know it's in a foreign language, buck up and use google translate if needed (but it's pretty intuitive so don't worry).
2. Make sure your display has "wireless remote control" enabled (TV can be hard wired or wireless)
3. Make sure you don't have a firewall preventing communication between computer and TV
4. On first connect your display will ask for permission to control, click yes of course.
5. If the emulator does not automatically find your display when it opens you can manually enter your TV's ip address into the configuration file (ruSamsungCommunicator) in the application's folder.

D7000,6900,6500,550 procedure
(Activating the service menu will reset the USER menu settings so write those down)
1. Download this file.
2. Extract file for your model from list below and rename it to LOGIC.bin - Note: If you have "show extensions" turned off in windows rename the file LOGIC
3. Place on stick in folder PDP_LOGIC
4. Turn on TV and attach stick to USB 1
5. Press mute+7+3+7+enter
6. Check Logic SW version
7. Check panel version (DS or DF)
8. Turn off TV and turn back on
9. Start ruSamsungTVCommunicator, it should automatically find your TV and display a box with several tabs.
10. Open the Fernbedienung tab
11. On the emulator, hit the Info button and then the Factory button to get into the Service Menu
12. Navigate to SVC and select it
13. Navigate to Logic USB D/L and select it
14. Right arrow to initiate flash (no turning back here)
15. "Upgrading" will be displayed if the TV accepted the file and this takes a minute or so and then the TV reboots.
16. Recheck Logic SW version.

Messages you might see when upgrading:

"Failed" -> TV could not find an upgrade file, check to make sure LOGIC.bin is in folder PDP_LOGIC and you are using USB 1 slot.
"No Match" -> TV found LOGIC.bin but doesn't like it.
"Upgrading" -> You are golden.

Timing board flash files:
TCON.zip contains the following files from the FW bundle which are identical for models D8000, D7000, D6900, D6800, D550 (and probably others).

51DF_DeepBlack.bin
51DS_DeepBlack.bin
59DS_ITO_DeepBlack.bin
59DS_ITOless_DeepBlack.bin
64DS_ITO_Deepblack.bin
64DS_ITOless_DeepBlack.bin

51" panel use -> 51DS_DeepBlack.bin or 51DF_DeepBlack.bin (depends on panel version)
59" panel use -> 59DS_ITO_DeepBlack.bin or 59ITOless_DeepBlack.bin (depends on logic board revision, if you get "No Match" use the other file)
64" panel use -> 64DS_ITO_DeepBlack.bin or 64ITOless_DeepBlack.bin (depends on logic board revision, if you get "No Match" use the other file)

What's the difference between ITO and ITOless?

After some more research I think I've figured out the difference between the two files available for 59" and 64" panels, it's not a difference between the names DeepBlack and lessDeepBlack but rather ITO and ITOless. ITO refers to the inner structure of the pixels, it's an electrode within the pixel. There are also ITO-less pixels that use a different electrode structure (I know, your eyes are glazing over at this point). Anyway the major difference between ITO and ITO-less pixels is that the ITO-less ones exhibit about 1/3 less image retention. So there are two different types of larger panels in circulation right now with different IR characteristics.

Credits

I did not do this alone! Thanks go to the following...

Rainer Ullrich, aka skyteddy (ruSamsungcomminucator)
LarryInRI (found method to activate usb d/l function on panels
Moderators at samygo.tv (firmware decrypting software)
Forum members (testing and reporting results - that was a great help!)
Samsung (for making superb plasmas and finding a way to improve them)



--------------------
NOTE: I want to clarify exactly what this firmware addresses so there is no confusion.

FBr occurs in relatively dark scenes (usually when a bright object is introduced) and will appear as a slight increase in brightness at all levels but most noticeable in the darker portions of the image including the black bars in 2.35 letterbox material. That last point is key and the easiest way to tell if you are seeing FBr is to test for it in the black bars with 2.35 material.

This firmware will not affect the brightness limiter. Whites will continue to dim when overall picture level increases past a certain point so do not report this as FBr.

Also: (Hockey flashes are not FBr!)

After a successful update of your logic board via either of the methods described above, there will no longer be any sudden jumps in black level (pop). In place of the pop you may notice slowly varying black levels with on-screen content (up to about twice your mll with no content), this is normal and can't be adjusted/fixed.

Thank you guys for ALL of the Long Hours spent on researching this FIX. I am very greatful!
Also my wife says thank you as well!
post #518 of 1615
I just bought a PN51D6500 MFD is Dec 2011, do I still need to do update with the USB or is it possible to do it over the internet?
post #519 of 1615
Quote:
Originally Posted by brian6751 View Post

What is your logic board version?

1 11 04. I might just cancel the tech coming out cause I'm only seeing the pops on about 3, 3D movies played on the very first Samsung 3D BD player. No pops on OTA TV or while playing games on the PS3. Were any of you getting pops while viewing cable, OTA TV, or gaming? Other wise this set is great (no buzzing or peeling). I'm still selling it though cause I would like a larger screen and brighter 3D picture. If anyone is interested and is in the Chicago area check out my ad in the AVS classified section.
post #520 of 1615
Quote:
Originally Posted by phas3 View Post

I just bought a PN51D6500 MFD is Dec 2011, do I still need to do update with the USB or is it possible to do it over the internet?

I have the exact set with a November 2011 build date. I was able to successfully do it over the net as per Zoyd and Larry's intructions.

Sam
post #521 of 1615
Hey guys. We've had our PN64D7000 since Thursday. It's experiencing brightness pops, so I want to try to fix. I've read the first post many times, but I'm still not sure what to do.

For the first possible step, I downloaded the .zip file for our model. Do I just put the .zip on a flash drive and upgrade the firmware through the menu? Then, if it doesn't do the "optimization" step, I should try step two? Sorry for the noob questions. I'm honestly very tech-literate, but something about those instructions won't click with me...

Thanks! You guys are awesome.
post #522 of 1615
yes akkmed. this thread has all the info you need bro
post #523 of 1615
Quote:
Originally Posted by akkkmed View Post

Hey guys. We've had our PN64D7000 since Thursday. It's experiencing brightness pops, so I want to try to fix. I've read the first post many times, but I'm still not sure what to do.

For the first possible step, I downloaded the .zip file for our model. Do I just put the .zip on a flash drive and upgrade the firmware through the menu? Then, if it doesn't do the "optimization" step, I should try step two? Sorry for the noob questions. I'm honestly very tech-literate, but something about those instructions won't click with me...

Thanks! You guys are awesome.

If your current firmware is earlier than 1015 you can download the 1014.6 one from here. If you do not get the optimizing message, you'll have to use Zoyds method.
post #524 of 1615
Hey! I have a PN51D8000

I downloaded both movie files for testing pruposes and I don't see any pops (maybe Im not noticing them?), but I'd still like to update.


I first updated via the update function in my TV menu and it updated to 001024

I then downloaded the 1024.8 file that was linked in this original post and went ahead to patch it via the USB Software Option and my TV said "Updating from 001024 to 001024". So the same software....

I tried the 2nd method and that method doesn't work for me. When im in the Mute+7+3+7 Enter menu and press "Right" on the Update from USB function, it says "Fail".


My Panel Version is DS.
My Logic SW is : 11-11-01
My Checksum is: 0x69F3

I don't think I am up to date but I don't understand why....


Ray
post #525 of 1615
Whether or not you think you got the optimization step, you should still confirm the firmware version after doing the update - see first red note on zoyd's post.
post #526 of 1615
Anybody else having problems with black levels on a completely black screen after the update. It only happens it on a movie or TV when there is a break in the movie and the screen goes completely black like a fade out in a movie. The screen then looks like it completely shuts off as if you were pressing the power button on the TV to turn it off. Then the black levels pops back up to a normal level like when you are watching a movie. It's very distracting but It only seems to happen on certain movies or TV shows that have these fade outs or completely black screens.
post #527 of 1615
Jruc03,

That is a new phenomenon (feature?) that came with the logic board update. It will happen if you have the Brightness control set too low. It also will happen if the Black Level is on the Low option and the source is sending a Normal signal.

Larry
post #528 of 1615
Thread Starter 
cool, I just confirmed on my set. with brightness set 7 clicks below normal the screen shuts off with black signal applied. Are we sure this is new with the logic update?

@juroc03, if you calibrate your brightness control you won't see this happen.
post #529 of 1615
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

cool, I just confirmed on my set. with brightness set 7 clicks below normal the screen shuts off with black signal applied. Are we sure this is new with the logic update?


Absolutely sure.

Larry
post #530 of 1615
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Jruc03,

That is a new phenomenon (feature?) that came with the logic board update. It will happen if you have the Brightness control set too low. It also will happen if the Black Level is on the Low option and the source is sending a Normal signal.

Larry

Well I know I have the Black level not on the low option so it must be my brightness control.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

cool, I just confirmed on my set. with brightness set 7 clicks below normal the screen shuts off with black signal applied. Are we sure this is new with the logic update?

@juroc03, if you calibrate your brightness control you won't see this happen.

I don't have a meter but I do have the Spears and Munsil disk maybe i'll pop it in and redo some setting.
post #531 of 1615
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jruc03 View Post

Well I know I have the Black level not on the low option so it must be my brightness control.



I don't have a meter but I do have the Spears and Munsil disk maybe i'll pop it in and redo some setting.

quick and dirty way: display something with black bars, raise brightness until you see some dithering/greenies, back off 2 clicks.
post #532 of 1615
A few guys over here in Australia are reporting success with the new firmware upgrade regarding brightness fluctuations but I would just like to know if anyone has had any/many side effects as in black level rise, 3d crosstalk or anything else?

I use cinema smooth so the bf's don't affect me but I would prefer to have it off and have slightly darker blacks. I only really want to use CS on 3d as crosstalk is pretty much gone and I like the image better. Also do you have to totally recalibrate your set after the update?

I had the C7000 before so just a bit cautious about samsung fw upgrades after what they did with that model.

Thanks guys
post #533 of 1615
I have 1015. So what does that mean for me? I HAVE TO do step 2 instead?
post #534 of 1615
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiles View Post

A few guys over here in Australia are reporting success with the new firmware upgrade regarding brightness fluctuations but I would just like to know if anyone has had any/many side effects as in black level rise, 3d crosstalk or anything else?

I use cinema smooth so the bf's don't affect me but I would prefer to have it off and have slightly darker blacks. I only really want to use CS on 3d as crosstalk is pretty much gone and I like the image better. Also do you have to totally recalibrate your set after the update?

I had the C7000 before so just a bit cautious about samsung fw upgrades after what they did with that model.

Thanks guys

sorry I meant to say people over here have had success with the Logic Board Upgrade. Any feedback on side effects if any?
post #535 of 1615
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiles View Post

sorry I meant to say people over here have had success with the Logic Board Upgrade. Any feedback on side effects if any?

no negative side effects reported. You don't need to recalibrate other than checking your brightness setting.

@akkkmed: yes, do step 2 - logic board update.
post #536 of 1615
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Absolutely sure.

Larry

Interesting, I''ll wager that this timing update was designed with the 2012 sets in mind to remove the fluctuations and lower mll slightly (hence the file name DeepBlack). At CES Samsung announced 10% lower blacks for the E-series, which is not much but a good marketing point. In order to do that they would have to lower the rate at which pixels get initialized. We already know that the initialization rate goes up with increasing APL which generates the (now smooth) increases in mll. In the other direction the ramp now produces zero initialization pulses at some point. I wonder why there are the ~7 clicks of adjustment between mll on and mll off?
post #537 of 1615
Does the emulator work on a Mac? For the life of me I can't open up to where I see the emulator when I download the file there are four folders. Doku,pictures,read me+liesmich_.text,Rusamsungtvcommunicator.exe. Can I open up the emulator without having the USB plugged into the tv?. I was able to update the firmware using mcmuffins upgrade( thank you by the way) but the logic board didn't update. I can't figure this out
post #538 of 1615
so I was able to update through my netwrok, it was the 1015 fmw but I don't know how to make sure?
post #539 of 1615
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjclecky View Post

Does the emulator work on a Mac? For the life of me I can't open up to where I see the emulator when I download the file there are four folders. Doku,pictures,read me+liesmich_.text,Rusamsungtvcommunicator.exe. Can I open up the emulator without having the USB plugged into the tv?. I was able to update the firmware using mcmuffins upgrade( thank you by the way) but the logic board didn't update. I can't figure this out

no, it's a windows executable. You can run it on mac using VBOX or similar (that's what I do).
post #540 of 1615
Zoyd,can you explain to me once I download vbox what I should do with a
MAC ? Thank you
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